Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Widewing on February 01, 2005, 11:26:07 PM
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Tonight, I was flying a P-38J and participated in a huge furball near an enemy base. Whenever I flew into the horde I ended up with stutters that basically made it impossible to shoot accurately.
So, I concentrated on shooting up the town until I was down to 214 rounds of .50 cal. At that point I headed for home. I spotted a fellow Rook being pursued by three La-7s, so being a nice guy, I scattered them, pinging up two in the process. That emptied my guns.
So now, at under 1k I turn for home again. But wait, here come those agitated LaLa drivers running fullbore to catch me.
Hmm... I'm doing about 320 and they are closing fast, range dropping to less than 2k. What to do????
Climb!
"What's that, did you say climb? They'll run you down in nothing flat!"
I'm sure that's what they thought too.
I engage WEP, pull up the nose and let the big Lightning make like a frightened angel.
One La-7 closes to 1.5k, and eventually gets down to 800 yards... But hold on Tilly, the range is opening, 1,000 yards now. As I pass 4k his icon says 1k. At 6,000 feet the range opens to 1.5k. Bye bye LaLas.....
When the range opens up to 2k the last La-7 pushes over, probably disgusted that the big P-38 simply checked out. As a final insult, I dumped flaps and looped the Lightning over and now the La-7 driver is sweating, a P-38 6,000 feet above and he's all alone now. Almost directly below, he would be an easy mark. But, without ammo all I can do is make him worry.
Some fellow Rooks didn't believe that the P-38J could out-climb the La-7. They thought I was nuts. Well, grab a friend, go to the TA and take off in the P-38J, have the friend take the La-7. Fly on the deck until, side by side at 300 mph, power up into WEP and hit auto-climb (load fuel for similar flight duration, 50% for P-38 and 100% for La-7). Initially, the La-7 has the advantage. However, as you pass 4k the P-38 will surge from 3,600 fpm to well over 4k per minute and sustain that for quite a while. In contrast, by 4k the La-7 is now showing signs of climb dropping off. By 6k you will simply fly right on by. By 10k, you will be well above. The higher you go, the greater the difference.
Yeah, I'm liking the P-38J......
My regards,
Widewing
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That is another one I'd have to see to believe.
Been my experience that *nothing* climbs away from an Lgay, unless it starts significantly faster / higher.
I wouldn't give good odds on climbing away from an Lga7 in a G-10, which I'm 99% sure would rocket away from a P-38J.
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Originally posted by Urchin
That is another one I'd have to see to believe.
Been my experience that *nothing* climbs away from an Lgay, unless it starts significantly faster / higher.
I wouldn't give good odds on climbing away from an Lga7 in a G-10, which I'm 99% sure would rocket away from a P-38J.
Go to the TA and try it. A simple time to altitude test will demonstrate just how well the P-38J or L climbs. If you are thinking about the AH1 P-38, don't. In AH2 it's a whole new beast.
My regards,
Widewing
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Yea, but a time to altitude test tells you nothing about whether or not you are going to be able to climb away from some 800 off your 6.
I've stuck with a G-10 that tried it all the way from the deck to 15k before I got a shot at him, but I did get a shot at him in the Lgay... if you look at the climb charts that is impossible.
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Originally posted by Urchin
if you look at the climb charts that is impossible.
Yes, the climb charts show climb rate. Add speed to the equation and you have climb angle. Not the same.
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Yea, but I think those Lgay drivers sucked, and didn't understand the geometry of the situation.
Or, maybe they were just very slow to begin with, I don't know.
But I do know a P-38 going 320 on the deck isn't going to get away from an Lgay 2000 yards behind it if the speeds are even remotely close to the same, unless the Lgay driver doesn't know his bellybutton from his elbow.
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Set the 38's climb rate at 1000fpm and see who can stay with you. Granted someone with a large bag of E will do you in. But in a relatively coE situation, you'll be surprised.
Regards
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Urchin,
I've climbed away from an La-7 in a Spitfire Mk XIV. You just have to start the climb in time to drain off the energy they'd use to zoom up to you from below.
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Yeah, I had an La7 at the base you were defending last night Wide (Punishr) that was trying to catch me. No matter what, he couldn't catch me in the vertical. My plane would get to around 30mph vert before it started coming down.
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Above 5k the La-7 becomes a very average climber.
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/ahhelp/models/charts/la7climb.gif)
Climbing is the only way to escape from or defeat an La-7.
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the real issue is, the 38 cannot outclimb a bullet.
if widewing's LA had sprayed a couple dozen shots at him from d800 only 1 or 2 hits wouldve likely done him in.
a few hours ago I had a cannon hurri on the ropes. He had dived in on my slow and on the deck 38J (after shooting down a f4u)....
I did a quick sciscor with him to slow him down and opened my wep and got distance from him quick while he turned back into me. d500....d700... d800... his nose is now to mine and im about to make him eat my dust...
spray of fire comes in all around me. I jinx a bit but he keeps spraying in small bursts.. finally PING! wingtip gone.
I got away but without a wingtip and cursing all the way back. :P
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we have the P38J now? Since when?
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Originally posted by OIO
the real issue is, the 38 cannot outclimb a bullet.
if widewing's LA had sprayed a couple dozen shots at him from d800 only 1 or 2 hits wouldve likely done him in.
What the P-38J can do is climb at a MUCH steeper angle. That La-7 behind me was also below me. He couldn't get his nose high enough to do more than spray ineffectively. He fired quite a bit and most passed well below me. Above 5k that high aspect ratio wing offsets the pure power to weight ratio of the La-7. Likewise, the LaLa's power is falling off while the P-38 maintains full power right up through 25k.
For the record, while the 109G-10 can climb faster than the P-38, it can't maintain the pure vertical as long. Secondly, Co-E, the P-38J or L zoom climbs as well or better than either the La-7 or the G-10.
Like I said, go to the TA or offline and test it yourself.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Red Tail 444
we have the P38J now? Since when?
Since 2.02 was released. We also have the P-38G too.
My regards,
Widewing
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This seemed to be the norm for me agin PJ's last night........... regularly encountering PJ's at medium altitudes whose sole manouvre agin my La7 was to start a climb in the hope of a rope............
once the preserve of the BF109...............
re angle of attack..........the La7 need to check /.speed setting lowering this will lift the nose ..................it wont make the La7 climb any faster but it will reduce the degree to which the nose needs to be pulled up to get guns on.
basically this is not the combat envelope of an La7........... best to find a fight lower down.......(or fly a yak 9U)........the PJ will come down eventually.
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I thought you had pulled straight up widewing... what angle of climb did you maintain as he closed in and as you left him behind?
also, I have not played AH since a few weeks before AH2 was launched.. im finding the new 38L to be drastically inferior in manouvering than the old 38L.
The snap-turn ability is gone (cloverleafing now impossible for me *sigh*). This pretty much negates my ability to sciscor anything but another 38.
Fuel burn was increased? wasnt it 1.5x back then? its now 2x. I find it very hard to cruise the same distances i did before.. i have to take 1 DT just to be able to fly 1 sector away climbing to 15k'ish and have fuel to fight and rtb the sector back.
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Originally posted by OIO
I thought you had pulled straight up widewing... what angle of climb did you maintain as he closed in and as you left him behind?
also, I have not played AH since a few weeks before AH2 was launched.. im finding the new 38L to be drastically inferior in manouvering than the old 38L.
The snap-turn ability is gone (cloverleafing now impossible for me *sigh*). This pretty much negates my ability to sciscor anything but another 38.
Fuel burn was increased? wasnt it 1.5x back then? its now 2x. I find it very hard to cruise the same distances i did before.. i have to take 1 DT just to be able to fly 1 sector away climbing to 15k'ish and have fuel to fight and rtb the sector back.
I was climbing at about 170 mph. However, even in auto-climb (about 200 mph), the P-38J leaves the La-7 behind above 5k.
I didn't find a difference beyond an improvement in E retention. That, more than anything would reduce instantaneous turn rate.
The other evening, I flew a P-38J up to 30k to intercept B-24s. I killed two of them, but with just 188 mg rounds remaining, I headed for a nearby base to rearm. On the way I ran into a Knit Dora at about 25k. Without dive flaps, I had to spiral down with throttle at idle and full left rudder to avoid getting into compressibility. Nonetheless, the new flight model is much better than the old one in this regard as once I was below 15k, I never had any speed related issues as we did with AH1. The Dora died, my 188 rounds doing damage and a Ki-84 finished it off.
Yeah, fuel burn was bumped up to 2.0 to encourage fuel management. Like you, I take one drop tank and 50% internal for most sorties. I'll keep the tank as long as possible. Since the P-38G carries 110 gallons less internally than the J or L, I usually take 75% and a single drop tank. Fuel weight is about the same as the J and L.
My regards,
Widewing
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Thnx for answer :)
"I didn't find a difference beyond an improvement in E retention. That, more than anything would reduce instantaneous turn rate. "
In AH1 i could be flying at 350mph or so, get jumped by a con and be able to bank and pull hard up on the stick and turn at least 35 to 40 degrees in a snap with little e-loss, after that the plane 'slowed' down since it became a sustained turn. In AH2 im just shocked that i bank and pull hard up even after im just flying straight and level and the plane just doesnt snap-turn. It turns those 35 to 40 degrees as if it was a sustained turn. ive tried it at 400mph, at 350, at 300, at 250, at 200mph.. same thing. the snap turn is just...gone.
I dunno its more like.. like if the 38L didnt have the hydraulic controls on the elevators.
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ww shhhhhhhhh ;)
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Originally posted by OIO
Thnx for answer :)
"I didn't find a difference beyond an improvement in E retention. That, more than anything would reduce instantaneous turn rate. "
In AH1 i could be flying at 350mph or so, get jumped by a con and be able to bank and pull hard up on the stick and turn at least 35 to 40 degrees in a snap with little e-loss, after that the plane 'slowed' down since it became a sustained turn. In AH2 im just shocked that i bank and pull hard up even after im just flying straight and level and the plane just doesnt snap-turn. It turns those 35 to 40 degrees as if it was a sustained turn. ive tried it at 400mph, at 350, at 300, at 250, at 200mph.. same thing. the snap turn is just...gone.
I dunno its more like.. like if the 38L didnt have the hydraulic controls on the elevators.
Oh lord, now you actually lose E quickly in a hard break turn! The shock!!!! The horror!!! The outrage!!!
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actually grun, id care less if I lost E in such a turn. what im saying is that the 38L now cant bank and pull nose up to turn about 30 to 40 degrees in a snap. 38 pilots used that to do cloverleaf turns...and in AH1 you could..now i cant do it. 300mph straight and level, bank and pull nose up hard.. it wont snap the nose to 30 or 40 degrees.. itl 'snap' to about 15 or so degrees then behave like a sustained turn.