Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: terracota on October 09, 2000, 10:54:00 AM
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hello there (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I 'm a little lose,when should I use the hi yoyo or when the lag roll or extend?
here's what I think :
in the first stage of the figth I have the E advantage (alt) Im flying the f4ud
them I start my dive the con usually split-s I extend a little them zoom, I do the same 1 or 2 more times, usually I never kill anybody at this part of the fight , them when I have losed some E I start high yoyos when I see about 600-700 behind the enemy and he breaks I do the h-yoyo. to not overshot.
so in which part of this figth should I use the lag-roLL ? when is better the lag roll tham the high yoyo? how many times should I extend and zoom before the star of one of these maneuvers??
tnx's for the help
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For me the hi and lo yoyo are used to cut the corner on a turn. I use the lag roll or variantions of it to keep from overshooting my dinner when he makes a break turn. I try never to follow a bogey into a split s. I usually can't follow right on his 6 anyway as I am faster than he is when he makes the manuever. I try to either a. extend b. pull up slightly and bank over so I can watch where he went and decide if I have an option to re-engage with advantage still. If in the hog you are going against a better turning plane I would watch that he isn't trying to drag you down to ground level where he can drag you into an angles fight where he has the advantage. I try to make my extends with about 3-5k seperation if I feel the enemy has a good amount of E. I will make them less if I KNOW I have the E advantage.
I may be way off base here and if some of the other guys could give their take on it from a more experienced, better ACM fluent view would help (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
S!
Rocket
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(http://www.reddragons.de/images/sig.jpg)
VMF-115 Joe's Jokers-RD AH DIV
Fierce and Bold
With Honour and Courage
_______________________
www.reddragons.de/aceshigh/ (http://www.reddragons.de)
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where's andy when we need him ? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I would say the basic difference here is that the LAG-ROLL would be a lot more offensive .. it will give your opponent no time to recover unlike when you zoom up in a high yo yo where he usually has some seconds to level out and pick-up speed ..
The downside is that flying the F4U-1D you will not have a lot of tries if you are after one of the T&B planes in here and you miss the shot after your lag-roll because you will not have the energy "banked" as with the High yo yo . if done right you should be able to B&Z a spit forever with high yo yos in the F4U.
Also a point in when to use what would be the angle difference ... because when your bogie is already very far around his break turn (big angle difference) i'd rather go for yo yo .. because if you don't time the lagroll well you might still overshoot .. or have to use a lot of E bleeding G to stay in behind .. (another no no in F4U)
DW6
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I'm right here!!
Duckwing has it right. The main difference between when to use the High Yo-Yo or the Lag Roll is in the angular difference between the two aircraft fuselages...ie, their angle off.
Use the Lag Roll to control closure when at LOW angle off...roughly 30 degrees or less. Use the High Yo-Yo to control closure and reduce aspect when at HIGH angle off...anything over 30 degrees. (Note - these numbers are approximations only and will vary with closure, angle off, and range.)
I suggest that the High Yo-Yo be the maneuver to use in AH to control excessive angle off and closure. Why? Because the snap viewing system is easier to use when flying the High Yo-Yo. The Lag Roll is more disorienting and is a more difficult maneuver to fly. The High Yo-Yo is more forgiving of pilot error.
How do you know when to initiate the High Yo-Yo? In a high closure situation (such as when you are diving down on an opponent), begin the maneuver as soon as you see either of two things. One...the bandit goes into a hard break...you will probably be unable to remain inside his turn circle, therefore you should get turning room by maneuvering out of plane as soon as you see the break. Two...anytime you see more than 30 degrees angle off (regardless of aspect angle), you might consider a yo-yo to reduce this angle off.
Hope this helps. If not, tell me what you do not understand, and I'll try again.
Andy
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ok great help all
here's what I understanded:
1) I dive to enemies 6 I have a lot of speed I try to never exceed the 400 this is a tip from "AMMO" (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) ,them if I have enougth lead angle more tham 30 degress aot and the enemy breaks is better to perform a lag roll, if I dont have enougth lead angle less tham 30 aot and enemy breaks better a h-yoyo?
I'm rigth guys?? andy??
ok here I go with 2 questions about that:
1) what happens if the enemy flies straigth Im about 500 near guns range so here comes the question he will turn? have he the E to break turn?? if not I eat him
but if is a trap? and he turns just at guns range I will overshot and he can kill me.
so is there some tip to prevent any of the 2 options?? is the lag roll usefull here? or better zoom
2) I saw in other post that if the enemy turns left I must lag roll rigth or turn to the other side he turns, I tried that the other day and if I turn to the other side I never can keep an eye on him, so if I turn to his same side I can track him, why everybody says ya must turn to the other side of his turn?? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I was practicing the lag roll with ROCKET the other day and he never turns to the other side of the enemy turn, the drone was me in a straigth fly . was because I flied straight? ROCKET???
tnx for the help
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terracota
here is a diagram to help you.
(http://www.doitnow.com/~alfakilo/roll.jpg)
For your second question, first of all, you want to control your airspeed as you dive down on your target. 50-100 mph closure is all you need. Anything more will reduce your tracking time and make it harder to aim accurately. It will also tend to make you overshoot more easily. Control your closure in the dive by reducing your throttle initially...then, as you level out, add power back in to hold your speed.
The Lag Roll that you describe should be called a Vector Roll when you want to control closure. A Lag Roll is better used to control excessive aspect angle. The two maneuvers are somewhat similar...the Vector Roll is an aggressive, relatively high G maneuver initiated from low angle off situations, while the Lag Roll is a lazy, low G maneuver used in high aspect angle situations.
In either case, you always roll AWAY from the target. If the target is turning left, you roll right...always...no exceptions!!
It is a disorienting maneuver, as I said in my first post. That is why I recommend the High Yo-Yo instead of the Vector/Lag Roll.
Andy
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Thanks for the clarification Andy.
This is what I was thinking of but don't have the vocabulary to put it down correctly.
When I am coming in behind a con 7:30 to 4:30 roughly I pull up and roll my cockpit slowly till I have the con in my top view while climbling to seperate. Once I see which way he went I continue to roll over until I am attacking from behind. I create vertical seperation this way and recover E and speed on the dive back in. If I am attacking from 3/9 and the con breaks then I pull up and gain seperation and back down to cut the corner while not losing too much E.
Does this sound correct or am I way off base?
Rocket
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Ahh and here i come Andy (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
now for the LAG roll .. assume the following:
i'm in an F4U closing with very low AOT on a SPit or Niki with some 100 mph closure. I fly the D so i have to wait till i'm pretty close in to make the cal 50s count, e.g. i'll hold fire till approx 400 - 450 yards..
So usually if he sees me he'll start a hard break turn at 1k - 700 yards distance .. now to get the lag roll right do i have to wait a bit before starting ? how far do i pull the nose up ? what kind of G am i aiming for ? How far (degrees) do i pull the nose of the targets original flight path ?
It was a LOT easier to fly lagrolls in 1.03 as they couldn't sustain the hard G breaks for that long .. but now a spit can yank around a circle with very hard G in no time and be manouverable enough afterwards to make any guns solution a wish (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
DW6
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Rocket
Sounds like you are doing just fine to me...get out of plane...look for turning room in the vertical...throw a lead turn in for good measure...text book BFM. Hard to argue with this. Good on ya!
Duckwing
I don't like to prescribe an exact answer for any BFM situation...there may well be several choices to pick from!
Your situation sounds like a closure problem. As I have said, the Lag Roll is not a closure problem solver...instead, it is designed to deal with excessive aspect. I'm including two diagrams that I hope shed a little light on the difference between a Lag Roll and a Vector Roll.
It's the Vector Roll that I think you have in mind. You come smoking in on the bandit when he lays a hard turn on you. For the first few seconds, you still remain at relatively low angle off...but your aspect is changing rapidly..and along with it, your closure. You need something to halt your forward movement and keep you close to the bandit's six. The Vector Roll is one way to do this (there are others!).
To perform the Vector Roll, you blend in 3-5 Gs (in other words, a hard turn...don't stall the a/c!)) as you initiate a roll opposite the bandit turn direction. So your nose is coming up and you are rolling at the same time. This rotation of your lift vector will cause a reduction in closure two ways. First, the drag associated with the rolling G will bleed knots. Second, the rotation of your velocity vector will cause a geometric reduction in closure...you will be flying a longer flight path relative to the bandit.
The idea is to roll away from the bandit aggressively ...then continue the roll under G until you have your lift vector back on him.
Please note...under the situation that you describe, I might not do a rolling maneuver. Instead, I might opt for a Quarter Plane that preserves my 3/9 line separation while gaining me turning room above the bandit's turn plane.
Anyway...I think you guys have a good handle on this. The problem in AH isn't the BFM...it's the management of the views to keep the bandit in sight while maneuvering effectively.
(http://www.doitnow.com/~alfakilo/roll2.jpg)
(http://www.doitnow.com/~alfakilo/roll3.jpg)
Andy
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Andy,
Thank you very much for the diagrams. I have always flown seat of the pants and the correct verbage sometimes fails me (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) By your explaination and diagrams I have been doing both and just not known the names (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
And to go over a point that you said Always roll opposite as the con!!!! Whenever I lose the fight it is becuase I rolled with the con and watching the films I realized it and have a big hammer sitting next to the desk that I clobber myself with when it happens (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
S!
Rocket
ps. Thanks again Andy.!
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I really dig those diagrams you're producing there in no time Andy, Thanks a lot!
What i was more relating too was the very high turn performance disparity between the faster F4U (for example) and the SPit.. he can basically creat a very high AOT situation in no time and i was wondering if a LAG roll would be the right move to start getting into lag pursuit.. (the other problem would then be getting a guns sollution tho (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
[This message has been edited by Duckwing6 (edited 10-10-2000).]
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Great diagrams. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I will note however, that Andy's comment about the view system is a very personal thing. If you are very comfortable with the snap-view system, feel free to use a lag-displacement roll when appropriate. Yes, those type of rolls can be more demanding, but that gives you something new to learn. :-) I love lag-rolling manuevers, and they are key to winning when you are flying a plane with a dis-advantage in turning ability.
Andy does have a point, but don't let it stop you from learning how to use lag-rolls. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) If you come from WB or similar games and are used to this view system as I am, you will not have a problem tracking the bogey.
BTW Andy, there is a padlock in AH now. Doesn't that solve your objections to the view system?
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Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
(http://tuweb.ucis.dal.ca/~dconrad/ahf/lepht.gif)
"My P-47 is a pretty good ship, she took a round coming 'cross the Channel last trip.
Just thinking 'bout my baby and lettin' her rip, always got me through so far."
- Steve Earl
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Great diagrams!! Thanks. Is there a way one of you guys who knows what these maneuvers should look like could possibly post films of them i.e. lag roll, vector roll, etc.. I have an idea but could be way out in left field. Appreciate it in advance.
Eagler
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Thanks for the great pics Andy.
Very helpful
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Lephturn
Sorry...I didn't mean to sound negative. I was trying to suggest that (for the beginner) the yo-yo would be an easier maneuver to fly using the snap views. Why? Because it requires fewer changes in the position of the lift vector. As I see it, it is the rotation of the lift vector that creates disorientation when using snap views...the less the lift vector is moved, the better the chances of remaining positionally oriented.
Duckwing
Let's take the situation you mentioned. In it, you are outside the Spit's turn circle when it goes into the break. The Spit should be able to generate a turn radius of less than 1000'.
Prior to the Spit's break, your closure was maybe 100mph, let's say. But a few seconds after the break, your closure will have increased substantially since your aspect has changed from a six position to one on the Spit's beam.
At the same time, the Spit is moving from your gunsight area out to the edge of the monitor screen. The only way to bring the Spit back towards the center of your screen is to point your lift vector at it and then pull.
A rolling maneuver does just the opposite...it rolls your lift vector away from the Spit. In addition, during the rolling maneuver, your flight path tends to remain in the general direction that it was to begin with. The end result is a flight path overshoot.
The issue here is one of maneuver choice. We choose our BFM maneuver based on what the bandit does. We can choose from maneuvers that deal with positional problems (aspect and angle off), closure problems, or both.
In this case, we have both a closure problem, an aspect problem, and an angle off problem all happening in a very short period of time. This is deep doo-doo!
While there are few absolutes in BFM, in general, rolling maneuvers best are used in short range, low aspect situations when the goal is to control closure. If the aspect angle is increasing rapidly, then other solutions offer a better chance to retain the offense.
Often referred to as 'out-of-plane' maneuvers, these include the High Yo-Yo and the Quarter Plane. The Quarter Plane is really an exaggerated high yo-yo and is often seen as a last ditch maneuver to keep from losing nose/tail separation.
In the situation you describe (high closure, short range, and rapidly building aspect angle), you may have better luck using a yo-yo type of maneuver. I'm not saying a rolling maneuver won't 'work'...I'm just suggesting that a yo-yo maneuver would be easier for many to visualize and execute.
Anyway...I love you guy's enthusiasm...I hope I haven't muddied the water too much!!
Andy
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ok tnx's andy for the diagrmas, now I fell better (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
and now I have a very dumb question (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
how the hell I calculate my closure rate???
ok I watch my speed about 400 so ya said should be about 100 knots the closure rate how I now that??
some easy explanation please?
Originally posted by Eagler:
Great diagrams!! Thanks. Is there a way one of you guys who knows what these maneuvers should look like could possibly post films of them i.e. lag roll, vector roll, etc.. I have an idea but could be way out in left field. Appreciate it in advance.
Eagler
eagler
I have a film showing the lag roll these was a training sesion with rocket, the only problem is that he tolds me to fly straigth (that way I can see how he perform it) if ya want it send me a mail and i will try to send the film to ya soom (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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That number is just an estimate of a typical engagement situation. If you are diving down on a bandit, you can expect to going faster than he is...assuming he is in level flight.
Typical level flight speeds run from 250mph to 350mph, depending on altitude...so 400mph would result in about a 100mph closure in a tail chase situation.
The real point is to watch your closure...that means that you may not want to leave the throttle at WEP all the time!
The range icons can give you a feel for closure. If the range is decreasing very rapidly, then you may want to slow your closure down with a throttle reduction or a yo-yo. Extra speed may be nice...but too much speed can be counter-productive!
Andy
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Thanks Andy .. was generaly doing just that (going high) and just wondered if i could utilize a lag/vector roll there better but just didn't time it ok .. or somehow else screwed it up (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
i guess with the very tight turning planes as adversaries going pure vertical is the best choice.. think you called it piruette right ?
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DW
The 'pirouette' is an unloaded roll and not an actual BFM maneuver in its own right.
It is used in maneuvers such as the High Yo-Yo. Once the pilot has maneuvered out of plane, he can unload and then roll the a/c to orient his lift vector...this is the 'pirouette' you refer to.
Andy
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Andy,
Yep, I understand where you are coming from there. I agree, the yo-yo is definately an easier manuever to use if you are a beginner. I just wanted to point out that folks should give the lag rolls a try when they feel comfortable with the view system. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I think we are on the same page here.
DW6: Keep testing the lag rolls. They take practice and careful setup to do right, but when they work ooooooh baby. <G> Feel free to setup some time with me in the Training Arena if you want to work on them.
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Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
(http://tuweb.ucis.dal.ca/~dconrad/ahf/lepht.gif)
"My P-47 is a pretty good ship, she took a round coming 'cross the Channel last trip.
Just thinking 'bout my baby and lettin' her rip, always got me through so far."
- Steve Earl
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Chief trainer training trainers (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Well i'll try Lepth . but i guess i'll stick with less agressive moves .. it's better suited for D Hogs
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there should be some trick to dont loose enemy sigth when lag-rolling (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
I hate this padlock system , because I get more losed and I dont now why (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by terracota (edited 10-12-2000).]
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Wow cool discussion!
By Andy Bush:
Anyway...I think you guys have a good handle on this. The problem in AH isn't the BFM...it's the management of the views to keep the bandit in sight while maneuvering effectively.
This is my #1 problem with lag rolls. After the roll away then back in you spend too much time re-acquiring the target. The time spent re-acquiring and not manuvering seems to destroy the manuver timing. Often the bandit is not right where you think it should be. Padlock does not work, because when you roll away it un-locks.
Andy;
For a dummy here, can you go over the difference between:
I understand it to mean this:
- Angle Off - The angle difference between my nose to the bandit.
- Aspect angle - The angle difference between where my nose is pointed and where the bandits nose is pointed.
Sorry I am slow. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
As for attacking when I have closure and angle problems to solve I always think of this line in R. Shaw's book Fighter Combat.
By Robert Shaw
In addition to chasing the pipper, another common mistake made in this process is getting into the targets plane of turn too early. The opponent must be beaten first, and then shot.
page 18
Check me out in my thinking here. I will assume that my atttack comes from behind the 3-9 line. If I want to get into lag or pure pursuit and have lots of closure I will go high (Yo-Yo or Lag) hoping to come around to the bandits cold side. If I want to into lead pursuit and have little closure I will go low (Yo-Yo) coming into his hot side.
Generally I understand that:
- High - Reduces closure, puts you in lag pursuit
- Low - Increases closure, puts you in lead pursuit
Both are designed to cut the corner and reduce angle. Since you generally start with high closures for your initial attack. First you move into a lag position by the use of high manuvers. Then to get lead for a shot you would use a low manuver or just saddle up. Am I correct or way out there?
Thanks in advance! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
"Anyway, more golf..."
Humble
[This message has been edited by Minotaur (edited 10-12-2000).]
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Mino wrote:
Generally I understand that:
High - Reduces closure, puts you in lag pursuit
Low - Increases closure, puts you in lead pursuit
Both are designed to cut the corner and reduce angle. Since you generally start with high closures for your initial attack. First you move into a lag position by the use of high manuvers. Then to get lead for a shot you would use a low manuver or just saddle up. Am I correct or way out there?
That sounds correct to me. You use any lag manuever to decrease closure and prevent an overshoot. You use high yo-yo's not only as a lag manuever, but also to try to do more of your turning in the verticle using roll, and less e-burning flat turning. Same thing with a low yo-yo. You have the basics correct though. I would come in faster than a target and use high yo-yo's to avoid overshooting while I gain position. Once I am ready for the kill, I may use a low yo-yo if I need to increase my closure to get closer for the kill shot and pull lead at the same time.
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Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
(http://tuweb.ucis.dal.ca/~dconrad/ahf/lepht.gif)
"My P-47 is a pretty good ship, she took a round coming 'cross the Channel last trip.
Just thinking 'bout my baby and lettin' her rip, always got me through so far."
- Steve Earl
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Mino
The definitions of angle off and aspect angle are always confusing!
Angle off is basically a measure of heading difference. It does not take into account the relative positions of the two a/c...only their respective headings. Angle off can be measured using the two a/c compasses. The heading of one minus the heading of the other equals angle off.
Aspect angle is a measure of position. It has nothing to do with relative headings. Aspect angle, by definition, is measured from the tail of the target. An arc is drawn from the target tail around to the position of the attacker. The number of degrees in the arc equals the aspect angle.
Both angle off and aspect angle have values from 0-180 degrees. Aspect angle, because it is a measure of position, also includes a 'left' or 'Right' label to indicate which side of the target that the attacker is on.
These terms are usually defined in 2 dimensional terms, but the terms can also be used when thinking in 3 dimensions...the person speaking just has to be very clear in his use of these terms.
Let's look at this MiG-21. The aspect angle here is 90 Right...meaning your position is 90 degrees from his tail on his right side. If you were looking at him thru your gunsight, your angle off would be about 90 degrees as well.
BUT...if you were flying formation with him and had your fuselage perfectly aligned with him, your angle off would be zero (you are on the same heading). Your aspect angle, however, would still be the same since your heading is not a consideration, only your position relative to the MiG.
(http://www.doitnow.com/~alfakilo/AA.jpg)
You seem to have the yo-yos well in hand. A Low Yo-Yo is a form of an acceleration maneuver. It is meant to gain closure and uses lead pursuit to do this. A High Yo-Yo is often used to reduce closure. It uses an out-of-plane maneuver (the pull up) to decrease relative closure. By definition, any out-of-plane maneuver is lag pursuit. The High Yo-Yo also can be used to solve high aspect/angle off situations...it does this by gaining additional turning room 'in the vertical'. In most cases, the High Yo-Yo ends with the pilot returning to lead pursuit.
I realize that these terms can get very academic, but, in the real world, we had to very precise with our words, particularly in an instructional setting. Trying to build a 3 dimensional picture in someone's mind using terms such as 'whifferdill' may sound neat at the bar, but leaves a lot to be desired when someone is trying to figure out exactly what you mean.
Lastly...on the subject of BFM and sims...the real issue for us is not only to use the correct terms, but also is to describe exactly how we use the viewing system to fly a given maneuver. It has seemed to me to be easy to describe a High Yo-Yo in an academic sense...and something entirely different when it comes to teaching someone how to do it in a sim.
Andy
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Thanks Lep and Andy. A little clearer now. It has taken me severaly years to rudimentarily grasp these concepts.
By Andy Bush
Lastly...on the subject of BFM and sims...the real issue for us is not only to use the correct terms, but also is to describe exactly how we use the viewing system to fly a given maneuver. It has seemed to me to be easy to describe a High Yo-Yo in an academic sense...and something entirely different when it comes to teaching someone how to do it in a sim.
I have to agree with you on that.
The last jet sim I played was Falcon 4.0, which has a very good padlock. You can see how your plane manuvers directly in proportion to the bandit.
Snap views do not really give you the same feel . This IMO is because the bandit moves within the view for "snap views" vs the the view moving and the bandit remaining stationary for "padlock views".
Padlock gives a better feel for manuvers relative to your plane. Easier in my mind to get a fix on the angles.
Sadly.... In a multi-plane envoirment the interface for padlock is too clunky to be effective.
One last question. How do military / civilian simulators simulate the padlocking ability of a human pilot? Multiple screens or some sort of VR helmet?
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
"Anyway, more golf..."
Humble
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The problems associated with internal views are the main reason why I have encouraged the use of the 'player to target' external view.
I am well aware of the objections to this view. Anyone interested in my reasoning can find it in my BFM 101 and Perspectives series of articles at SimHQ.com.
As I see it, a major impediment to achieving the sense of what a real world pilot feels when he is flying 3D BFM lies in the orientation of our monitors to where we sit. No matter what attitude we fly our aircraft into...and no matter what view choice we make...the monitor is still directly in front of us. We may be looking at a picture of our deep six but our 'body position' remains straight ahead.
I think this difference between perceived sight line and actual head/monitor position creates a spatial orientation problem that is very difficult for the typical simmer to overcome. The real world pilot has no such problem...he may be looking to hix six, but his body is always very aware of the fact that he (and the a/c) remain pointed forward.
As a result, it is much more intuitive for the real world pilot to remain oriented while padlocked on the bandit.
For us simmers to avoid this problem, we would need to have outselves seated in a fixed position with a monitor that is free to move about that position. Imagine a sphere with ourselves in the center...the monitor would move about the surface of the sphere.
Some military sims use a similar strategy in placing the pilot inside a faceted array of screens. It works fairly well. Even civilian airline sims do this to a limited degree.
But no sim is going to replicate the sense of G and acceleration forces that make up much of what the real world pilot uses to orient himself.
Andy
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This type of thread is of the main reasons I peruse the fora.
Carry on, gentlemen!
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A brief comment to something Terracota said earlier when talking about practicing Lag Rolls against a straight and level target. So far this discussion has been about using these rolls against a turning target, and frankly, 99% of the time, that's what you get. If the guy sees you, he's not going fly neatly along in a straight line. Therefore, we know to roll opposite the direction of his turn, etc.
If, however, the target is flying straight (I struggle a bit here, maybe a sleeping C47) and you want to vector roll to control closure, then you need to pull up and off the line of flight. Left or right is up to you.
So, if the target is turning, you just pull up and roll opposite of the bandit, put your lift vector on him and pull. If the target is straight and level, you need to pull up and off to one side as you roll in that same direction. This might help clear up a little of the confusion I thought I detected in Terracota's post.
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thnks lepton , now have the whole thing of lag-roll's more clear (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
now I just have to practice the real thing (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)