Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: TalonX on February 02, 2005, 02:25:31 PM
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yes, I know, Head On.
I DON'T know why people cry about it... It's a part of the battle..... Perhaps the first merge, closing from 10K would be a good place to pass on the shot, but in a furball, forget it.....all that wheeling and diving, I will take the HO shot anytime I get it.
That said, I had one of the usual whiners (This one, BISH) crying about a HO the other night... Here is what happened...
I am on the tail of a Jug in a Zero...(imagine) He pulls up into an Immelmann. I meet him near the top and splash him.
He starts screaming "HO jerk" etc, on 200.
Is that really a HO?
Give me a break.
Die with dignity. It's only a game.
Can you guess the whiner?
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there are countless threads on this..however some ho's are really annoying..such as fighting 3 or 4 guys and they all try and ho you. It makes no sense tactically to ho a person when u have him outnumbered....also the friendly hoing a guy your 400 out from and dead 6. Basically it screams of newbism but is a legitimate tactic in some scenarios.
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*in my best Horseshack voice, Hand up waving*
"UHHHH UHHH UUUH Mr Cotter I think I know who the Whiner was.....Mr. Cotter I know, I know..."
*head down towards the desktop, with fingers walking slowly across the top*
"It was SHANE Mr. Cotter.... was I right Mr. Cotter?"
When you said the three words Bish, Whiner and HO. SHANE is the ONLY answer.
:rofl
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HO is what it is. To me a ho is a last ditch effort, you loose then you Ho. What make me pissed is when a person with the adv Hos just because thats all he can do. If i can shot you and you have a adv thats a Ho.
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Just another excuse to rant on 200?
If the opponent saws my wing off thats not.
If oil and blood cover my windscreen I call that a HO
I do get a pleasent suprise when I dont get faceshot @ the merge and get to try some acm. I still fight the urge to pull up and squeeze the trigger.......
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An HO is ...
when 2 opposing enemy planes BOTH have a guns solution on each other at the same time.
Some/Most don't seem to understand this concept.
Maybe you should have asked ... "When is an HO appropriate ?" ... cause that is where this discussion is going.
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I must be thinking of something totally different
I was thinking of a woman who stands on the street corner
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TAKE A HO ANYTIME ITS POSIBLE!!!!!!
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A garden tool, an easy woman, or someone how shoots first asks questions later.
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And now for something silly (this was in a movie)
Guy - Man, he called my momma a HO!
Teacher - Why did you call his mother a gardening tool? :rofl
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Nothing wrong with a HO. you either win or lose. Dont go Head on into people thinking they arent gonna shoot. Personally I assume every red is trying to put a bullet in my plane from whatever angle. I will HO especially is someone is coming at one of my 190s with some weak armed plane.(no cannons) I will also HO if I am heavy carrying bombs and someone who is obviously not comes to try to get an easy kill on me. or if in a 110..the list goes on and on. Simple advice for those who complain about HO's, get on your enemies 6 not at his 12.
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Slapshot described it best.
"when 2 opposing enemy planes BOTH have a guns solution on each other at the same time".
Think about this a bit.
Why do you want to present yourself as a target?
Granted there are occasions where HO's happen, but to happen at the first merge is a blatant suicide attempt by both pilots.
Feeling "safe" because you outgun your opponent will eventually bite you in the keester. It only takes 1 bb to make a pilot wound or knock out an engine.
My personal thought is that if you go for the HO right away you never had a chance of controlling the fight, and if you live through it, will have learned nothing about ACM.
Just my $.02 worth.
RTR
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Originally posted by SlapShot
An HO is ...
when 2 opposing enemy planes BOTH have a guns solution on each other at the same time.
Some/Most don't seem to understand this concept.
Maybe you should have asked ... "When is an HO appropriate ?" ... cause that is where this discussion is going.
Well said bro.
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What I find is that there is a certain element that will do ANYTHING possible to turn into you nose to nose and force a head on. They tend to fly non perk cannon birds and try to ctach you when you are already engaged or have just broken off of an engagement, so that you have little speed with which to maneuver.
I know the other night several of us were in a furball and ran into the same clown in the same Hurri doing it time after time after time. You'd come out of a fight and he'd turn straight at you, only when you had no speed and no room to dive, with his cannons blazing.
The same people will fire at you at anything remotely close to a nose on merge and at every pass you are close to nose on. They hope and pray for that magic ping that yields a pilot wound, a damaged engine, or something like it. The ONLY thing they practice is HO runs in cannon birds. These are the same morons that will run and scream for their buddies when they blow the merge and you manage to get any sort of position on them. They usually operate in groups, or have buddies close by.
It's all part of it I guess. But when I see certain cannon birds I know it is coming. you can always tell, you just hope you remember to think about it and you can make a turn to avoid going nose on with the moron without putting youself in a bad position. I guess we can call it "Jouster's High".
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essentially a HO is when both pilots think: 'screw it, im going to hurt his plane right now even if it costs me my plane' to put SlapShot's description even more plainly.
there are exceptions though i find.
sometimes when meeting vertical in stall or rope conditions its more of a valid tactic i'd say.
often a P38 takes makes me hang on my prop stalling as i try to climb just that fraction more to get a solution. before i have stalled he comes down and hits me head on almost verticaly.
if he hits me i say good rope.
if i hit him its his own fault for not roping well enough.
when in these situations i find i have to constantly judge what the enemies intentions are as to opening fire.
In a furball on the other hand, i still almost always avoid HOs. in the small amount of time it takes someone to shoot striaght, you can prepare all the more to get in a real posstion to kill them.
so in conclusion i'd say HO's in AH2 are a matter of two factors:
1: your own respect for combat, and urge for a better fight.
2: constantly judging how opponents portray themslves in the air.
when someone smoothly dives to meet my merge and doesnt fire on me, that when i know im probably in for trouble.
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Originally posted by jaxxo
there are countless threads on this..however some ho's are really annoying..such as fighting 3 or 4 guys and they all try and ho you. It makes no sense tactically to ho a person when u have him outnumbered....
yes, but if you are outnumbering a guy like that you better HO to get your kill before the guy who did all the work to get the enemy to that state. is only common sense jeez...;)
seriously, only 2 reasons to HO
1. always HO a 110 (shows you are a man)
2. HO if you know the other guy will blow up on CH. 200
and shooting front panel at high deflection is not a ho.
at any rate, ho's dont bother me, though i hate to see them for many of the same reasons as you guys. i think there are situations in which it is ok, and there are situations where it is very dweeby. in 1 on 1, if the person tries to HO, they will prolly die pretty fast afterwards.
trippy
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One has to be in the position of being able to get a HO shot off in order to receive one.
So, either that person did not manuever out of the way to avoid the shot, or is crying because he got shot first :)
You can't always just shoot only if you are on a guys 6, heck man, only the bad cowboys shot people in the back. I think most are confusing a HO with simply a face to face position. I mean, really, if you want to offer up a true example of an actual Head On shot, you would have to know that the bullets would be followed closely by the propeller, wings and tail section of that plane as they plow into your cockpit. That's the only way a true headon will hit, dead on straight with no way to manuver out.
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99% of Ho whines are from guys who lost Ho they were trying. I was in A il2 killing gvs 5 fighters come in all 5 go for HO once they see my il2 can out turn them. 190 spit ki84 tempest and 51. All 5 died only 190 pilot whines on 200 of course its the All you know is HO. You betcha if i'm a il2 u can count on it i'll take you Headon if thats game you want.............
2nd Headon's were used alot in ww2 i'm now coming to believe. After watching Gabby gabenski special on Discovery channel. He was telling stoories and showing films. Including entire squad trying to ho entire flight of 190's with thier p47s
Then when he is in korea He tells story of takeing 4 headon passes with a mig before mig pilot bailed out. Now i've heard of 10 to 20 other stories of headon starting to think it was done more that most think. If aces like Pappy boyington, Gabby and chuck yeager were using HEadons I have to believe alot more were doing it.
but I do agree if 4 or 5 guys with alt only go headon thats weak.
But i can tell you if your on one guys 6 well and its a squadie. I will do anything i can to clear him.........:)
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Depends on my mood. If im feelin like i wanna live I'll avoid, if Im in a lazy mood I'll fire away HO. WHen Im lazy I feel its up to the other guy to get out of the way, because the lead is otw!
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perhaps ask this guy.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/176_1098823987_lrgxxlbabywhtfur.jpg)
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Originally posted by jaxxo
also the friendly hoing a guy your 400 out from and dead 6. Basically it screams of newbism but is a legitimate tactic in some scenarios.
I was 200 and lost a wing to kill shooter as they both exploded infront of me with out even an assist....................
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Maj. Richard Ira Bong top American ACE of WWII is reported to have FAVORED the HO against IJ planes.
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Personally I tend to get really pissed off when I die to a HO. But what do I get pissed at???
MY SELF!!!!!
Im not really pissed at the other guy for taking the shot, Im pissed at my self for not avoiding something so easily avoidable. I generally avoid 95 out 100 HOs but sometimes I have no where to go or am sloppy. Its really annoying.
Sometimes though I do feel sad when I see pilots go just zoom ho zoom ho zoom ho. Reason I feel sad is that I know they wount develop as pilots. I feel like I want to take em to the DA and help em with what little I know about ACMs and dogfighting but unless I kill em or they kill me I dont know who they are... :/
Does this mean I never ever take shots that can be viewed as HOs? No people will most likely whine about my shots as well.
But I try to never ever go for shot if the enemy has gun situation on me. Though I do go for shots if I know he CANT get gun situation on me and I can. I do take front angle shots. I just always try to avoid getting shot my self.
Tex
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First off in my opinion anything you can do is a valid tatic. Hitech has built this game pretty darn well IMO. If he didn't think it should happen, i'm guessing he'd of found a way to prevent it.
Next, the ones that really get my goat are the guys who whine about a forward quarter shot in a turnfight.
Excuse me but in most dogfights there is only one true HO. The one where you see the enemy 5k away and both turn nose to nose. Trying to kill him on the first pass.
Slapshot did indeed sum it up nicely again IMO.
So its 4 turns after the first merge, you come over the top in front of my guns why would you expect me NOT to shoot?
The wonderful thing about AH is that its a flight sim. You fly, you die, you get to see where you made a mistake or 2. And you get to do it all over again.
So why the ego's and gnashing of teeth??
Its a flight sim, EVERYONE dies. Learn from your mistakes. Get over it.
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from some people im wondering if a HO is anything that ISNT a dead 6 shot. the amount of times ive shot into the side of a plane and been insulted for being a skillless HO dweeb........arrg :mad:
only time i HO is when i know im in a good HO'er (190) and i know im at a big disadvantage. IE low vs a turn fighter...
also bombers love HO's ;)
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Originally posted by SlapShot
An HO is ...
when 2 opposing enemy planes BOTH have a guns solution on each other at the same time.
Some/Most don't seem to understand this concept.
Maybe you should have asked ... "When is an HO appropriate ?" ... cause that is where this discussion is going.
Wrong again :D. A HO is when you can see the plane that just killed you and you are not looking behind you :lol
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I like the answer that states a HO is when both pilots having a firing solution.....
That brings us to good HO's, and bad HO's. I maintain starting on your six, leading your Immelmann and killing you at the top, even if somewhat front on, is a legitimate ACM and kill, not to be confused with the bad HO.
I honestly don't care if someone tries to HO me, but I am sticking with the bad HO being the long merge, face to face, and firing rather than ACM.
Anyway, by the first definition, he had no firing solution on me, so no HO.
It was not Shane....it was another whiner of some infamy.
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Originally posted by TalonX
It was not Shane....it was another whiner of some infamy.
Common now. How hard could it be? Someone in a jug gets shot down and then whines. Hmmm, who could that possibly be?
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well 1 thing that suks is when someone br8ks to avoid a ho and you fire..they will almost always scream YOU HOED ME..and what i do if they have tracers on is wait till they fire first..kinda hard to call some1 a ho if they fire first
:aok
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Its ok if I Ho. Thats' always a justified shot. If someone Hos me they are lame and are a dweeb.
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Spend about 20 minutes playing IL2:FB offline against ace AI and you'll never complain about HO shots in AH again.
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Originally posted by TexMurphy
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Im not really pissed at the other guy for taking the shot, Im pissed at my self for not avoiding something so easily avoidable.
Tex
Well said.
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(http://www.dodo.com.au/)
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Originally posted by Phantasm
well 1 thing that suks is when someone br8ks to avoid a ho and you fire..they will almost always scream YOU HOED ME..and what i do if they have tracers on is wait till they fire first..kinda hard to call some1 a ho if they fire first
:aok
Hehe, we were flying P40s last night. I ran across this lone Spitfire coalt with me. There were a couple of friendly cons in the area, but they were about 4-5k (I was at 10k with the spit). 3 times we merged, and all 3 times he had opportunities to take the fight vertical and blow my E. Every time he went for the HO and I just barrel rolled out of his line of fire. Finally on the 4th merge, I got sick of it and ruddered back into him and let him have it point blank. It was very satisfying to watch all that black smoke coming out of his engine. Of course then I got cocky and he put one into my engine but I still ended up (after several minutes of maneuvering) to get the kill. I wont bother to post his ID. I'd say its a pretty sad state of affairs for the Rooks though, when they have guys flying around in Spitfires that cant take on a P40 coalt without HOing him lol. Several of them I admire. He wasnt one of them. ;)
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Here's my definition of a HO...
I'm in a NIK and get into a fight with a coalt spit. I mess up the merge and spit gains alt on me. I'm finally able to equalize our E and we both go into a loop fight. I'm just about to get guns solution on him. As we start going up I suddenly have a hurri come barreling in right at my face from 400 out, guns blazing. No time to get out of the way, I didn't even have time to fire back. Wasn't deflection b/c I'm not 100% sure he didn't ram me to death and I had my gun sight near his plane. It's the lamest thing that has happened to me in this game yet! I mean come on, why wouldn't you just fall in behind me or.... wait to see who wins( I know, that will never happen)? But why come straight at someone and risk dying too? What a tard! Hey, this is my 1st whine, how'd I do? Oh and I understand why you guys do it now, I feel much better:aok
But that's my definition of a HO, when you take no time or skill to get any position on the opponent and just go crashing in. :D
[edit]: Shoulda added the Hurri ran earlier from a 1vs1. I think I'm more upset that my fight got ruined than the HO. If the hurri wanted to fight he had his chance! Even if he would have came in behind me and got me I still would be POed. But the HO was the topping on the cake:mad:
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people who fly nikis aren't allowed to whine about HOs. ever.
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but... but... I WASN'T TRYIN TO HO! I was in a 1vs1 and got cheated!:D Also, was only my 2nd time in a NIK. I wouldn't call myself a "NIK pilot" by any stretch. Still kinda new and starting to fly other planes besides the spit. And having cried for the past 2 hours in my pillow, I feel better.
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We see this all the time. N1k denial. "But I dont usually fly it......... I was just trying it out.............. I didnt MEAN to HO the guy, the plane just fell right into line with his nose and the trigger grabbed my finger! Yeah thats the ticket.............."
Admit you have a problem. It's the first step on the road to being N1k free. Then have your doctor prescribe a N1kotine patch. You'll be fine. Early detection is key.
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ROFL... OH IT'S TRUE!!!! I love the NIK. For me there's nothing better than pointin those 4 cannons at an enemy, closing my eyes and lettin her rip! Heck I love the NIK almost as much as I love to joust!:rofl
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N1Kotine patch... LMAO :rofl
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find them on street corners