Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: SunTracker on February 02, 2005, 04:09:09 PM
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I'm thinking it might be the P-51:
NA-73X
P-51A
P-51B/C
P-51D
P-51F
P-51G
P-51H
A-36A
F-82
F-6a
F-6b
F-6c
TF-6d
TF-51d
P-82a
P-82b
P-82e
P-82f
P-82g
F-82H
PA-48
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I'm pretty sure the Bf109, Fw190 and Spitfire have that beat.
Spitfire list (I probably forgot some):
F37/34
Spitfire Mk I
Spitfire Mk Ia
Spitfire Mk Ib
Spitfire Mk IIa
Spitfire Mk IIb
Spitfire Mk III
Spitfire Mk IV
Spitfire Mk Va
Spitfire Mk Vb
Spitfire LF.Mk Vb
Spitfire Mk Vc (properly just a Mk V with a universal wing)
Spitfire LF.Mk Vc
Spitfire Mk IV
Spitfire Mk IIV
Spitfire Mk VIII
Spitfire LF.Mk VIII
Spitfire HF.Mk VIII
Spitfire F.Mk IX
Spitfire LF.Mk IX
Spitfire LF.Mk IXe
Spitfire HF.Mk IX
Spitfire HF.Mk IXe
Spitfire PR.Mk IX
Spitfire PR.Mk X
Spitfire PR.Mk XI
Spitfire Mk XII
Spitfire F.Mk XIV
Spitfire F.Mk XIVe
Spitfire FR.Mk XIVe
Spitfire LF.Mk XVI
Spitfire LF.Mk XVIe
Spitfire Mk XVIII
Spitfire PR.Mk XIX
Spitfire F.21
Spitfire F.22
Spitfire F.23
Spitfire F.24
Seafire Mk Ib
Seafire Mk IIc
Seafire L.Mk IIc
Seafire LR.Mk IIc
Seafire F.Mk III
Seafire L.Mk III
Seafire FR.Mk III
Seafire Mk XV
Seafire F.Mk XVII
Seafire FR.Mk XVII
Seafire F.Mk 47
Seafire FR.Mk 47
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I would guess the P-40
-oldman
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One website shows the variants of just the P-51D to be:
44-13253 / 44-15252 109-26886 / 28885
44-15253 / 44-15752 109-35536 / 36035
44-63160 / 44-64159 122-30886 / 31885
44-72027 / 44-72126 122-31886 / 31985
44-72127 / 44-73626 122-38586 / 40085
44-73627 / 44-75026 122-40167 / 41566
44-11153 / 44-11352 111-29286 / 29485
44-12853 / 44-13252 111-36136 / 36535
44-84390 / 44-84989 124-44246 / 44845
45-11343 / 45-11742 124-48096 / 48495
I am not sure what these numbers mean, perhaps just minor changes in the airframe.
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Well Suntracker, if the airframe number is your definition of "variants" there were 37,000 variants of the Bf109.
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The F-82 is not a "version" of the Mustang.
It is a completely new design which borrowed some upon an earlier North American aircraft.
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GScholz, I believe those numbers represent minor variations in the aircraft design, not just "airframe numbers". Equivalent perhaps to the number designation on Bf-109s (ex Bf-109g2,g6,g10).
The F-82 is a version of the P-51. Without the P-51, there would not have been an F-82. Some parts had been modified and blended, but this constitutes a variant. The P-51H probably shared little in common with the P-51A.
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Hmm didn't the P40 and the P39 both go up thru the Q version before they were done? On that basis, I'd guess either one of these.
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Originally posted by SunTracker
The F-82 is a version of the P-51. Without the P-51, there would not have been an F-82. Some parts had been modified and blended, but this constitutes a variant. The P-51H probably shared little in common with the P-51A.
SunTracker, not to be rude, but:
Name WHICH parts that have been "modified and blended" to fit the "Twin Mustang".
The wing, is a completely different design.
The flaps are completely different, as are all control surfaces.
The Fuselage is longer and wider.
The Empennage is completely different.
The only thing that remotely looks the same is the canopy (which is different) the radiator intake (which is different) and the nose cowling (which is all different).
There are very few parts which share interchangability between the aircraft. Most of those are GFE anyways and if you are going by that, then all aircraft are a variant of the others.
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As for the most versions, I say it is the P38 or P-47.
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The final chapter in the evolution of the Mustang airframe is the P-82 Twin Mustang. The XP-82 was originally ordered in anticipation of the extremely long range escort missions that would have to be flown from bases on Saipan to Japanese cities. However, capture of the island of Iwo Jima solved that problem and full development of the XP-82 was delayed. In 1943, North American Aviation proposed the joining of two XP-51F fuselages by a large center wing section that housed the armament, and a large parallel chord, single-piece stabilizer tailplane. The fuselages were lengthened 57 inches just aft of the radiator and vertical fin size was increased. Both rudders and outer wing panels were from the P-51H. Power came from two Packard V-1650-11/21 engines delivering 2270hp with water injection at 4000 feet. The engines were fitted with opposite rotating props to reduce the tremendous torque effect. Since the XP-82 was to be an escort aircraft, both cockpits featured flight controls. However, only the left cockpit had full instrumentation.
http://nasaui.ited.uidaho.edu/nasaspark/safety/types/P82.htm
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The G-2, G-6, G-10 etc represent significant developments of the 109.
Let's look at the more minor variants for comparison:
Bf 109 V1
Bf 109 V2
Bf 109 V3
Bf 109 V4
Bf 109 V5
Bf 109 V6
Bf 109 V7
Bf 109 V8
Bf 109 V9
Bf 109 V10
Bf 109 V10a
Bf 109 V11
Bf 109 V12
Bf 109 V13
Bf 109 V14
Bf 109 V15
Bf 109 V15a
Bf 109 V16
Bf 109 V17
Bf 109 V17a
Bf 109 V18
Bf 109 V19
Bf 109 V20
Bf 109 V21
Bf 109 V22
Bf 109 V23
Bf 109 V24
Bf 109 V25
Bf 109 V26
Bf 109 V30
Bf 109 V3a
Bf 109 V31
Bf 109 V48
Bf 109 V49
Bf 109 V50
Bf 109 V52
Bf 109 V54
Bf 109 V55
Bf 109 A
Bf 109 B-0
Bf 109 B-1
Bf 109 B-2
Bf 109 C-0
Bf 109 C-1
Bf 109 C-2
Bf 109 C-3
Bf 109 C-4
Bf 109 D-0
Bf 109 D-1
Bf 109 E-0
Bf 109 E-1
Bf 109 E-1/B
Bf 109 E-2
Bf 109 E-3
Bf 109 E-3a
Bf 109 E-3/B
Bf 109 E-4
Bf 109 E-4/B
Bf 109 E-4/N
Bf 109 E-4/BN
Bf 109 E-4/Trop
Bf 109 E-5
Bf 109 E-6
Bf 109 E-7
Bf 109 E-7/U1
Bf 109 E-7/U2
Bf 109 E-7/U3
Bf 109 E-7/B
Bf 109 E-7/Z
Bf 109 E-7/Trop
Bf 109 E-8
Bf 109 E-9
Bf 109 T-0
Bf 109 T-1
Bf 109 T-2
Bf 109 F-0
Bf 109 F-1
Bf 109 F-2
Bf 109 F-2/B
Bf 109 F-2/Z
Bf 109 F-2/Z Trop
Bf 109 F-2/Trop
Bf 109 F-3
Bf 109 F-4
Bf 109 F-4/B
Bf 109 F-4/R 1
Bf 109 F-4/R 2
Bf 109 F-4/R 3
Bf 109 F-4/R 6
Bf 109 F-4/Trop
Bf 109 F-4/Z
Bf 109 F-4/Z Trop
Bf 109 F-5
Bf 109 F-6
Bf 109 G-0
Bf 109 G-1
Bf 109 G-1/R 2
Bf 109 G-1/U 2
Bf 109 G-1/trop
Bf 109 G-2
Bf 109 G-2/trop
Bf 109 G-2/R 2
Bf 109 G-2/R 3
Bf 109 G-2/R 6
Bf 109 G-3
Bf 109 G-3/R 6
Bf 109 G-4
Bf 109 G-4/R 2
Bf 109 G-4/R 3
Bf 109 G-4/U 1
Bf 109 G-4/U 3
Bf 109 G-4/R 3 trop
Bf 109 G-4/trop
Bf 109 G-5
Bf 109 G-5/R 2
Bf 109 G-5/U 2
Bf 109 G-6
Bf 109 G-6/AS
Bf 109 G-6/R 1
Bf 109 G-6/R 2
Bf 109 G-6/R 2 trop
Bf 109 G-6/R 2/R 3
Bf 109 G-6/R 3
Bf 109 G-6/R 3/R 6
Bf 109 G-6/R 3/Trop
Bf 109 G-6/R 3/R 6 trop
Bf 109 G-6/R 4
Bf 109 G-6/R 6
Bf 109 G-6/R 6 trop
Bf 109 G-6/U 1
Bf 109 G-6/U 2
Bf 109 G-6/U 4
Bf 109 G-6/U 4/R 3
Bf 109 G-6/U 4 N
Bf 109 G-6/N
Bf 109 G-6/trop
Bf 109 G-7
Bf 109 G-8
Bf 109 G-10
Bf 109 G-10/R 2
Bf 109 G-10/R 3
Bf 109 G-10/R 6
Bf 109 G-10/U 4
Bf 109 G-12
Bf 109 G-12/R 3
Bf 109 G-14
Bf 109 G-14/AS
Bf 109 G-14/R 1
Bf 109 G-14/R 2
Bf 109 G-14/R 6
Bf 109 G-14/U 2
Bf 109 G-14/U 4
Bf 109 G-14/U 6
Bf 109 G-16
H Bf 109 H-0
Bf 109 H-1
Bf 109 H-2
Bf 109 H-2/R 2
Bf 109 H-3
Bf 109 H-4
Bf 109 H-5
Bf 109 K-0
Bf 109 K-1
Bf 109 K-2
Bf 109 K-3
Bf 109 K-4
Bf 109 K-4/R 1
Bf 109 K-4/R 2
Bf 109 K-4/R 3
Bf 109 K-4/R 4
Bf 109 K-4/R 6
Bf 109 K-6
Bf 109 K-8
Bf 109 K-10
Bf 109 K-12
Bf 109 K-14
... and those are the German models. In addition there are Spanish, Czech, Romanian etc. models, including post war models.
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Originally posted by SunTracker
http://nasaui.ited.uidaho.edu/nasaspark/safety/types/P82.htm
If that was the case, that the P-82 was basically two H's, it would have been much easier for us to restore the P-82 instead of making all new parts for those that needed replacement. Hell, the owner would have been a lot happier too.
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THe F82 isnt really even 2 P51H models, the fuselage is entirely different and much longer...
The Bf109 prolly wins for most versions due to sheer number produced overall and the German tendancy to build them in small batches for varios roles.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
THe F82 isnt really even 2 P51H models, the fuselage is entirely different and much longer...
The Bf109 prolly wins for most versions due to sheer number produced overall and the German tendancy to build them in small batches for varios roles.
I wonder if you broke down the Spit the same way if it would be close. They didn't rename the Spit V for example despite it using numerous Merlin variants. But if you look at a break down of the potential combinations the list for the Spit is a long one as well.
I'd still think the 109 would be tops though
Dan/Slack
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joining of two XP-51F fuselages
Both rudders and outer wing panels were from the P-51H.
Lengthening a fuselage does not make it an entirely different aircraft. Most fighters in WW2 went through a lengethening process.
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Even the P51H is not at all related to P51D, they have nothing in common except general appearence, nothing.
Compare that to the Bf109 which kept practically an identical rear fuselage assembly from the prototype A model in 1935 to the last K's produced in Spring 45 or the ones after the war in Spain, the only things that changed were access hatches.
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Originally posted by SunTracker
Lengthening a fuselage does not make it an entirely different aircraft. Most fighters in WW2 went through a lengethening process. [/B]
The P-82 fuselage is an ENTIRELY new design. No formers, no ribs, nothing, notta matchs, not even the stringer material is the same.
What you are reading was the concept for the XP-82 (NA was trying to quicken the development time by using existing P-51 parts) which did indeed use the P-51H fuselages and wings, but was found that the fuselages were not strong enough to support the weight of the entire aircraft with all ord expected, so, the fuselage is a completely different design now, which necitated all new tooling to manufacture the aircraft. The wings are new designs too, the landing gear is different, the engines are different, the props are different, the spinners are different, ad finiteum.
The F-82 IS NOT a version of the 51.
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Vought
XF4U-1
F4U-1
F4U-1 WM
F4U-1A
F4U-1B
F4U-1C
F4U-1D
F4U-1P
XF4U-2
F4U-2
XF4U-3
XF4U-3B
XF4U-4
F4U-4
F4U-4B
F4U-4C
F4U-4P
F4U-4N
Goodyear
FG-1
FG-1A
FG-1D
FG-1E
FG-3 (Unknown If Prototype, same as F4U-3)
XF2G-1
F2G-1
F2G-2
Brewster
F3A-1
F3A-1D
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BF-109 - for once I agree with GS. Hell it went upto the BF-109Z for christ sakes.
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Even though I basically agree with Scholzi that the109 had the most, his inclusion of a/c that were only paper designs I think should not qualify. If 109 V a/c are included then the X and Y American a/c should be included. The inclusion of U and R as well should be disqualified as other a/c had equipment additions as well. Should the various dash numbers (-1, -5, -10, -15, etc) for American a/c be seen as different?
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Pointing out the obvious here Milo; the American X and Y planes are already included in this thread.
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Scholzie definately has this right.
The Spit probably comes in second
And the 190?
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Originally posted by GScholz
Pointing out the obvious here Milo; the American X and Y planes are already included in this thread.
Only the X models of the Corsair are in any thread I can see. Who made posts for the other X and Y models of American a/c? Sure is not any in the list of Mustangs.
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Originally posted by MiloMorai
Only the X models of the Corsair are in any thread I can see. Who made posts for the other X and Y models of American a/c? Sure is not any in the list of Mustangs.
It is the first one listed in the whole thread:
NA-73X
That is the Mustang prototype.
I do however agree with you that the 109 R designations should not count as they were field modifications, and the allies did much of that as well without making separate designations. The U designations however were factory modifications and does count. Also it is true that some of those 109 models never flew; however the vast majority of them did, and most of them flew operationally.
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NA-73 was for the British contract. There was aslo the XP-51 for the Americans which was a slightly different a/c.
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Then add the XP-51, obviously experimental versions are included since the NA-73X is listed.
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Hi GScholz,
>I do however agree with you that the 109 R designations should not count as they were field modifications
Actually, many R-designated aircraft came right off the production lines. In some cases, field modification kits that were identical to the factory-applied hardware were shipped out, but I'm not even convinced that was more common than factory production.
The 20 mm wing cannon armament for the Ju 87D is an example for equipment that was both factory-installed and field-installed.
With regard to the most versions, it's obviously the Me 109 that takes this superlative.
Note that this was a bug and not a feature!
Ludwig Bölkow was tasked with cleaning up Messerschmitt production because in 1943, 16 factories were producing 82 different Me 109 versions. Interchangability of spare parts had gone to hell, and logistics were a nightmare. Bölkow was given a 140 man crew to create a standard Me 109 while improving handling and performance at the same time - all without disturbing series production.
The end result of his work was the Me 109K, of which at least two major versions - the K-4 and the K-6 (with integral wing cannon) were planned. Only the K-4 made it into production, though.
Regards,
Henning (HoHun)