Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: OIO on February 05, 2005, 10:31:44 AM
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In april of '04 I went into a toyota dealership and along with my father, we traded our 2 cars (a 97 T-bird and a '99 daewoo leganza both in excellent condition and realy low mileage (under 70k miles for the tbird and just above 30k for the daewoo).
The 2 cars were traded for my father's new sporty ride, the Spyder (2 psgr convertible.. he was like a teenager again) and for a Toyota Prius.
Now, the prius back then was just being launched in the US so the dealership said it would be a 2 to 4 month wait on the vehicle. We agreed on a package and priced at $23,017 with tags and everything included.. we both signed on it and I gave the mandatory $500 deposit which in the contract stipulated it was non-refundable.
As the 4 months went by the dealership called me to say there would be an even further delay in the vehicle yada-yada-yada... which worked out quite good for me since i had lost my job in april of '04.. just a week after i signed on the car.
Throught the months theyve called me in saying they've received cars that didnt match the model i signed for but it was avaliable now if i wanted it..and of course it wastn 23k pricetags but 27k and up. I declined of course and told them id only take the one i ordered.
This morning i get a call and im told that a car that matches my order will be coming in...
except that its an '05 and has a toyotaguard option (which i didnt order) and its priced at 26k.
Since its been almost a year now they agreed to take off the pricing of the extra feature i didnt order.. putting it at 23,750. (and this price includes the 500 deposit i gave).
The dealership is arguing that they cant give me an '04 because of production issues (being '05 now) and that the 05's are more expensive so the price cannot match what we agreed and signed on.
I tried to be as nice as possible and told the guy that when I sign a document and give a deposit thats a contract and that I expected the price to be at least close to what I agreed on. I told him that $23,200'ish would be as far up as id go to pay more than what i agreed on and thats being generous since its been over 3X the amount of time i was told id be waiting for my car. A signed deal is a signed deal imo, if they cant deliver in the stipulated time thats their problem, i shouldnt have to pay a thousand bucks more for their problems.
The salesman said hed talk it over with the sales manager.
As I was typing this the sales manager calls in.
In a very dry conversation he pretty much told me that he could not give me the price of an '04 because it was an '05.. and that he could easily refund my money (when the document i signed said it was non-refundable... heh. anyways theyve had my money for almost a freaking year) if i wouldnt take the car. That there were many other people on 'the waiting list' that would take the car if i didnt.
He did say toyota was sending out some price cutback checks since the vehicle's price was lowered in april '04 as some part of a promo to launch the vehicle, so i 'could' be getting about 400 bucks back from toyota. I told him that'd be fine as long as its 400 to 500 money back from toyota (not the dealership but the co.), because thatd put what i end up paying in the price range i consider acceptable under these circumstances. But I told him i wouldnt take a 'could' .. its either a yes or a no.
The manager said hed call toyota and let me know on monday.
But I know they are trying to sell their cars so he probably hung up and went to the next guy in the list to see if he'll take it..and probably on monday ill get a 'yeah youd get 500 bucks back but we sold the car we offered you on sat' .
This whole thing has me pissed off. From a legal standpoint, isnt the dealership suppposed to honor their written and signed contracts?
Thoughts?
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Ask a lawyer.
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thats an option im considering..but id probably end up paying the lawyer more than the $1k they are overcharging me :P
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there are often free legal services available in most places if you look for them. they can usually inform you of what the law is. from there you can decide whether or not to seek further recourse.
if you are being defrauded, a good attorney can usually get them to settle for a fair amount and/or get them to make it worth your while.
in this case, i would say that having a contract lays it in your favor, but then that is without having read the fine print.
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Just my opinion...If they treat you this way before the sale...how will they treat you afterwards.
The Prius is still a hard car to get, and for the most part it has excellent reviews.
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Toyota dealers are imfamous for such sleazy tactics. Go look at a honda.
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KIA has been offering 2 for the price of one around here lately.
i'm sure they are just doing that to spread the quality.
whatever happened to yugo anyway?
fine car that was.
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One of many reasons why I never buy new cars. Waiting a year or two can save an amazing amount of money.
...of course, that said, I want a Prius too, and there's no way to make that happen right now with my car buying style. I'm envious, and I hope you get this problem worked out.
Good luck!
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i don't think they are trying to defraud you , what happened was you tryed to buy a car they did not have in stock and then could not get.
if someone wanted a model we did not have , we would check with other dealers ( fairly close) to see if we could get the car from a other dealer before making the customer wait for delivery.
NOTE* i worked for a Honda dealer and we had no choice as to what cars Honda would send us, we had to take what Honda shipped.
it looks like the one you wanted was in short supply and you just timed out, i would ask to speak to the factory sales rep to see if he could work out a deal for you with the dealer. or you could contact the mfg and complain.
remember, you will be getting a 05 not a 04.
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"it looks like the one you wanted was in short supply and you just timed out,"
actually I see it more as the dealership closing a deal and they timed out in getting me the car.
"i would ask to speak to the factory sales rep to see if he could work out a deal for you with the dealer."
I didnt know a customer could do that.
"or you could contact the mfg and complain."
that too, though ive worked in cust service long enough to know that written complaints never accomplish anything. Id have to talk in the phone to someone high up in toyota to get anything done.
"remember, you will be getting a 05 not a 04."
exactly the same words the sales manager used. the car is identical to the '04 , just because its an '05 doesnt mean it gives them the right to break their signed agreement.
Its really irritating to see that IF i was the one saying I didnt want the car anymore and that i was breaking our signed agreement, they wouldve kept my $500 all legal and crap.. but if they say they dont want to give me the car , breaking our signed agreement, they get to keep their car and got an interest- free year-long $500 loan from me.
GRR
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Bottom line, you prob. won't win this, or at best will get your money back.
I personally would take the '05. It's worth thousands more on resale value alone. The car you are lookin' for is VERY hard to get/find. There is a year wait for it in most dealerships. I AM suprised they couldn't dealer trade for one, did you consider doing that and finding one possible diff color/options etc but still close?
They can't honor your contract, if they don't have the vehicle. It doesn't SEEM like they are trying to "screw" you on this deal. More that you are wanting a VERY hot car, that they really don't have to discount to sell (some get over sticker for that car).
Again, take the '05. OR look into as others have said the Honda version. (personally, I pref. the Toyo havin' driven 'em both).
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You signed a contract written by them. I'd recommend taking their offer or moving on with your $500, unless you can get a lawyer to look at the contract for free. Either that, or when the sales manager calls you back to tell you that he can't guarantee the rebate from Toyota, and your only option is to take the $500 or the car at a higher price - tell him you need a day or so to talk it over with a lawyer and see if he bites.
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Originally posted by OIO
Thoughts?
Take your 25K and buy a new Mustang GT instead....
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Take your 25K and buy a new Mustang GT instead....
Best advice in this whole thread.
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I worked at a car dealership for 6 weeks. They are all scum; lying cheating selfish scum. Tell them that you want your $500 back. Tell them that if they don’t give it back, you will hang out in their parking lot and tell other customers how you were treated; they will cough up your money. If they don’t agree right away; B-line to the nearest customer and prove that you will. They can NOT afford to have you do that.
What did they give you for your trade ins? Was that applied to the purchase price of the new one? Where is the money? From what you wrote, I can’t tell.
Would you consider a used one for much less?
http://motors.listings.ebay.com/Toyota_Prius_W0QQfcclZ1QQfclZ3QQfrppZ50QQfsooZ2QQfsopZ9QQsacatZ43925QQsbrsrtZlQQsocmdZListingItemList
eskimo
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LOL, I guess you'd be better of not buing anything, ever.
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OIO you in CA by any chance?
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"What did they give you for your trade ins? Was that applied to the purchase price of the new one? Where is the money? From what you wrote, I can’t tell."
No the trade-in value of our old cars went into my dad's new car since the prius wasnt in the lot back then.
I payed $500 from my bank account to them as deposit for the prius.
"Take your 25K and buy a new Mustang GT instead...."
The whole point of buying the prius is for long term money saving in fuel. And I admit I like the Prius. Im not a muscle car person, for me a car is a tool not a statement.
"They can't honor your contract, if they don't have the vehicle. It doesn't SEEM like they are trying to "screw" you on this deal."
Err the whole point is they DO have the car they just want me to pay a lot more than what I agreed and signed on.
Besides, what happens when a company wont honor a contract (they CAN honor they just dont want to, the car is avaliable).
See, i cant understand how its legal to take my money and sign a contract with me and then just say 'sorry heres your 500 bucks back, get lost' . Like I said, if it was ME saying i wouldnt wait any more and said i was calling the thing off, they WOULD keep my 500 dollars.
to above poster: no im in florida.
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A buddy of mine in LA had some touble with his Hummer dealership, so he torched the place and blamed it on the Earth Liberation Front.
(http://images.ibsys.com/2003/0822/2425119_320X240.jpg)
He got away with it but his Hummer 2 is still a lemon... so I guess that wasn't a good strategy.
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Originally posted by OIO
"Take your 25K and buy a new Mustang GT instead...."
The whole point of buying the prius is for long term money saving in fuel. And I admit I like the Prius. Im not a muscle car person, for me a car is a tool not a statement.
If saving money is your thing then buy a $15,000 Civic because it will take you decades to save up $10,000 in fuel. So your choice of the Prius is definetly a statement...
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check the contract carefully and see if it entitled you to a particular car, or just a car in general with all kinds of disclaimers. If the former you have a good claim, if the latter you have no claim. I say take your $500 and run like the wind.
FYI, the dealership may be violating FL law by using unfair business practices, many lawyers will take these cases on a contingency basis--at least in CA--try around you might find a lwyer in your area that deals with these cases.
Also, call your local TV station or radio station on their "call for action line" or whatnot and see if they can shine some light on these rats.
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grun, the money saving comes not in overall price of the car but in the money that i pay per month. A civic would cost me about 360 bucks a month, the prius 385.
and based on mile per gallon ratings, id gas the prius half the times as the civic per month.
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Well, I've been in the car business since 1986, and in management since 1988.
And, about an hour ago, my sister called me from a Toyota dealership in Chicago (1200 miles away) with almost the exact same story; the Prius they've waited a year for is here, but the price is $420 higher. Their buyers order says "'05" on it, though. The manager told her that the salesman mistakenly priced it up as an '04.
And, they are trying to steal her trade, offering her $1500 less than it's worth (it NADA wholesales at $18000, but in the real world it's worth $16500, and they're offering her $15000).
I advised her that a signed contract is exactly that, but the mistake could be real and that she might want the car enough to accept it. And that the dealership is going to deliver that car to her or to someone else, it doesn't matter to them. And if they don't offer her $16500 for the trade, she can always retail it for $18000.
So, does she want the car bad enough to take a $420 screwing? I'd walk, but another guy might not.
Priuses are false economy anyhow; you can never make up in fuel savings what you paid extra in up front costs. She should buy something else, a Subaru Legacy or something like that.
Tom
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Originally posted by OIO
grun, the money saving comes not in overall price of the car but in the money that i pay per month. A civic would cost me about 360 bucks a month, the prius 385.
and based on mile per gallon ratings, id gas the prius half the times as the civic per month.
But you are paying maybe $5,000 to $8,000 extra right now upfront to save $25 per month on gas..
Lets just say that your Prius is only $5,000 more expensive than a Civic, at that rate it will take you 17 years to make up the cost in fuel.
Also how much more is your monthy pqayment to finace that 5,000 to 8,000 premim for the Prius, you must account that into your supposed monthly gas savings...
You are obviously have not though this through if your intent is to lower your total car ownership costs...
Do the math and you will see it makes no sense financially.
The Prius is a status and statement vehicle, simple as that.
Buy a Civic sedan and save a ton of money while still driving a very comfortable, well built, safe, fuel efficent and environmentally friendly compact vehicle.
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Not a lawyer but sounds to me like the dealership is in breech of contract.
Trouble is you will need a lawyer to sort it out and that will cost you alot more than $500.
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thnx for insight Tom.
In my case they trying to screw me 750 bucks over what i agreed for just because they could not deliver the vehicle in time. I can understand its not their fault, but its not my fault either and they were very happy to take my money a year ago as the deal was closed.
Since you in management and stuff in that industry maybe you can answer this:
if the dealership decides to simply force me to take my money back, who can I talk to (i mean like gov. agency or anyone in particular in the toyota co...not a lawyer hehe) to help me make them honor their signed agreement?
I find it very unsettling that a company can just break a signed agreement because they feel like it. The car is there, they've had my money for over a year and i was lied to at the time it was signed when i was told it would be a 4 month wait.
When the 4 months were up and they called me to say it would take more for the vehicle to arrive I did ask about a refund of my deposit if i were to go for another car... and i was told if i cancelled the order id lose my $500 (but now they singing a different tune).
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I worked at a car dealership for 6 weeks. They are all scum; lying cheating selfish scum.
I've been selling cars for a dealership for 2 years, there's no more lying cheating scum working here than any other job I've ever had. 6 weeks huh? Nice effort...
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Contact your State Attorney General's office and Bureau of Consumer Affairs.
Forget about the Better Business Bureau as they've become a commercial operation and aren't really looking out for the consumer like they used to.
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Originally posted by Curval
Not a lawyer but sounds to me like the dealership is in breech of contract.
Trouble is you will need a lawyer to sort it out and that will cost you alot more than $500.
well, heres something that just occurred to me.
you could always go the small claims route.
the award wont be much, but they will be required to show up and answer for it. if you got your head lined up on it just right, you could probably get it back and put a small dent in thier reputation...enough that they might reconsder doing it to someone else.
wont make a profit, but thats not really what it is about now is it?
worst case? you lose the small filing fee and an afternoon off of work.
sounds like a fun little scrap if you ask me.
.02
88
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oio , 1st it will cost you to file small claims, 2nd the deal was not "closed" when you gave them the $500 ,it is only closed when they sign the car over to you.
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well jony, if i sign a paper agreeing to purchase a product and pay an upfront cost and they sign it agreeing to deliver said product at stipulated price, its a done deal no matter how many ways I can look at it.
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They offered you your deposit back, so I would say take it - a deal is a deal but it isn't that big of a big deal. You spent $500 worth of time thinking, obsessing and posting about it. :D
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rage!
rage against the monkey!
:mad:
:)
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No its not a done deal, they haven't done anything wrong legally. Ethically... that's another story and you can try your local Fox news station. Does the paperwork your holding have a vehicle VIN# on it? If not you put a deposit down to hold a place in line for something coming down the pipe, they offered to give you your deposit back and at this point its probably your best bet. If a local news station doesn't want to run with your story, legally there's no point in pursuing it.
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Originally posted by VWE
I've been selling cars for a dealership for 2 years, there's no more lying cheating scum working here than any other job I've ever had. 6 weeks huh? Nice effort...
Yea, I didn't have what it took to lie to people, mislead them and basically rip them off. The “service” that car salesmen offer, isn’t. Basically you do everything you can to give them near nothing for their trade in and trick them into paying too much for their new one. Tack on extras and surprises whenever you can. The worse a deal you give the customer translates into more money for the salesman. Spend a couple of hours misleading someone, fill out some paperwork, and make $500 off of them; and the store makes a lot more. Great formula for service! Dishonesty is a trademark of all successful car salesmen (commissioned ones). After customers left, it wasn’t uncommon to hear salesmen make insulting comments about people who earned an honest wage. Management would lie to the salesmen; no one trusted anyone.
I left disgusted and ashamed that I ever had anything to do with the business.
Sorry if you’re taking this personally, but that’s how I feel about commissioned car salesmen and car dealers.
eskimo
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Originally posted by VWE
I've been selling cars for a dealership for 2 years, there's no more lying cheating scum working here than any other job I've ever had. 6 weeks huh? Nice effort...
Exactly. People just expect the moon from the sky because they buy cars they can't really afford to.
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I'm willing to bet that a contract written by the car dealer only favors the car dealer. As someone said earlier, if they are treating you this way now, what do you expect after you take delivery? I'd expect they will give you the runaround on every bit of warranty work, and I'd expect quite a bit of warranty work on a hybrid until they get all the kinks out of them.
Oh yeah, buy a Ford.;)
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Originally posted by eskimo2
Yea, I didn't have what it took to lie to people, mislead them and basically rip them off. The “service” that car salesmen offer, isn’t. Basically you do everything you can to give them near nothing for their trade in and trick them into paying too much for their new one. Tack on extras and surprises whenever you can. The worse a deal you give the customer translates into more money for the salesman. Spend a couple of hours misleading someone, fill out some paperwork, and make $500 off of them; and the store makes a lot more. Great formula for service! Dishonesty is a trademark of all successful car salesmen (commissioned ones). After customers left, it wasn’t uncommon to hear salesmen make insulting comments about people who earned an honest wage. Management would lie to the salesmen; no one trusted anyone.
I left disgusted and ashamed that I ever had anything to do with the business.
Sorry if you’re taking this personally, but that’s how I feel about commissioned car salesmen and car dealers.
eskimo
You don't have to lie, or cheat to be a car salesman. I did it for 6yrs, and can count the people I "screwed" over on one hand, and I had done well over a thousand car deals. The car biz. is like any other. If you have to "lie" or "cheat" to do a deal, then you are a piss poor salesman. Doesn't have to be done that way.
Sales is sales. That Pharm. Rep. who "sells" a drug to a doc that they make for 25 cents and retail to the consumer for 50.00 is no diff.
Heck, you wanna talk crooks? Look into the funeral industry. THEM guys are crooks.
Back on topic. I might have misunderstood, but I was under the impression that you signed a contract for an '04, and they are not avail, but an '05 is at a higher price. Seems to me like you have no deal. Nothing you can do. Contract is null/void in my opinion. IF the dealership HAD an '04 and refused to give it to you at the agreed price, THEN you could take legal action. Unfort. that is not the case, and you are indeed wasting your time.
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Ok, here's what you do when someone tries to screw you out of money. A few people I've known have done it.
Buy a 1911 .45 pistol. Walk right in on the office of the **** that did this to you. Hold the muzzle an inch to the right of his left ear and fire a round off before he can say anything.
Say, "I'm tired of getting ****ed. You will now give me everything that we had previously agreed upon, nothing more nothing less. If you call the cops telling them that I did this, I'll post bail and come back and kill you. It'll be worth life in prison to watch as this .45 goes through your ****ing skull..."
So far, I've heard about it working twice. The two contractors got exactly what they signed for in the contract.
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Was the contract 8-10 for aggrivated assault with a deadly weapon?
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"I might have misunderstood, but I was under the impression that you signed a contract for an '04, and they are not avail, but an '05 is at a higher price. Seems to me like you have no deal. Nothing you can do. Contract is null/void in my opinion."
The order was placed in april '04 with the understanding the delivery would be 4 months max.
I was told i could not cancel my order because id forfeit my deposit.
So its legal to hold my money 'hostage' for almost a year?
this is like bait and switch imo.
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>>Buy a 1911 .45 pistol. Walk right in on the office of the **** that did this to you. Hold the muzzle an inch to the right of his left ear and fire a round off before he can say anything.
<<
Ckint Eastwood syndrome?
Take your money and do business elsewhere. Thats about as close as you can get to winning in real life.
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You'd be surprised how big of ******* most people are. I bet you could walk all over the guy after you do this.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
You'd be surprised how big of ******* most people are. I bet you could walk all over the guy after you do this.
Dunno what other states are like, but in the one I sold cars, we had conceal / carry laws. I would say at least 1/4 of the salesman had guns in their briefcases (if not more). Pulling out a gun and firing it in a car dealership here is similar to commiting suicide.
LOL once, this guy who's sold cars for 30yrs got sick of listening to two salesman bicker over a car deal (they had already gone out back twice to fight, and were STILL aruging) so he got out his .22 cal pistol from his briefcase, chased 'em both around a couple cars on the showroom floor, and ended up shooting one in the tush as he ran out the doors trying to escape.
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Originally posted by TweetyBird
Take your money and do business elsewhere. Thats about as close as you can get to winning in real life.
Yes, ditch the Prius statement car and save yorself thousands of dollars by taking your money to a Honda dealership and getting a Civic sedan.
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It's governed by state law. Generally speaking, though, a deposit taken on an order or on a locate is contingent upon them being able to acquire the vehicle.
Y'know what,though? They told you up front that there would be a 2 to 4 month wait. They called you several times to tell you about similar cars that had come in. They tried. And, if they'd come up with the exact car when you'd been out of work for say, 3 months, would that contract have bound you to take delivery of the car? You yourself said that the extended wait was actually a good thing for you.
Prius supply is controlled by Toyota and the import distributor. As a dealership, you don't get what you ask for; you take what they give you. Speaking as a Subaru sales manager in the mid '90s, there was nothing like ordering 20 Legacys and 15 Imprezas and getting 15 Legacys, 10 Imprezas, and 10 SVXs.
If it were me, I'd take my deposit back and buy something else, and not look back.
My sister bought her car today. The $420 was the price difference from '04s to '05s. They gave her another $500 for her SLK230, making it $15.5k; it's the middle of winter in Chicago, and that's a little 2 seat roadster. They'll either make a killing on that trade or use it as a buffet table this spring. It's a risky piece to take in at that place and at this time. But still, local NADA on it is $17.8k with an $1850 mileage adjustment. I would have felt safe at $16.5K. The dealer threw in a bunch of free oil changes and inspections to make up for the $420, so she's happy.
Tom
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Yes, ditch the Prius statement car and save yorself thousands of dollars by taking your money to a Honda dealership and getting a Civic sedan.
Or save yourself even more thousands and buy American. The job you save may be your own...oh wait, didn't Oio say he lost his job? And he still wants to buy an import????
You reap what you sow I guess. I hope your unemployment check covers the car payment you'll make to keep some Japanese dude who manufactures your car in a Tokyo country club membership.
Me, I buy American. And if everybody did then Oio would still have a job. If you aren't part of the solution then you are part of the problem.
If we Americans were even half as nationalistic as every other country's citizens were then Oio wouldn't be unemployeed.
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I get all my printing done in Canada.
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Originally posted by Airhead
Or save yourself even more thousands and buy American. The job you save may be your own...oh wait, didn't Oio say he lost his job? And he still wants to buy an import????
You reap what you sow I guess. I hope your unemployment check covers the car payment you'll make to keep some Japanese dude who manufactures your car in a Tokyo country club membership.
Me, I buy American. And if everybody did then Oio would still have a job. If you aren't part of the solution then you are part of the problem.
If we Americans were even half as nationalistic as every other country's citizens were then Oio wouldn't be unemployeed.
Chances are the new car you buy won't be made in the country you think.
Some Hondas, Nissans, and Toyotas are made here in the States while some domestic labels are not.
People buy what they perceive as a good value for the money. Seems the Japanese rice producers are having a hard time of it as quite a few Japanese are buying California rice. Seems every bit as good as the Japanese grown but much cheaper.
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Go over the dealers head to their U.S. HQs.
Contact State Attorney Generals Office.
Tell them both you think you are a victim of fraud.
Maybe they will help.
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Originally posted by ET
Go over the dealers head to their U.S. HQs.
Contact State Attorney Generals Office.
Tell them both you think you are a victim of fraud.
Maybe they will help.
Was he a victim of fraud? You've only heard one side, and even there he admitted that the extra wait benefitted him and that the dealer kept in touch constantly. Without seeing the exact contract outlining the circumstances under which the deposit is and isn't refundable, I don't think anyone here can say that there is fraud. I would bet that there is either no language stating that the deposit is non-refundable, or that the deposit is refundable if the dealership fails to perform within a reasonable time. In other words, OIO could have asked for his deposit to be refunded, but chose not to.
I've written a handful of rebuttal letters over my 20 years in the business. Every time a customer has complained about fraud, I have produced documentation signed by the customer showing that they knew exactly what they were doing; I had one customer write a letter claiming that we tricked her into signing a lease when she intended to purchase a vehicle. We replied with a copy of her email requesting information on leasing and lease payments, our return email explaining leasing, and a copy of her signature directly under the words on the contract, in bold, capital letters, "THIS IS A LEASE. AT THE END OF THIS CONTRACT YOU WILL NOT OWN THE CAR. DO NOT SIGN THIS CONTRACT IF YOU INTEND TO PURCHASE THIS CAR ON PAYMENTS."
I know that there is a lot of bs that goes on at other dealerships, but Iagree with VWE and WMLute. That's laziness. It's hard work selling a car. It's not physically hard; you don't have to be in shape. And it's not mentally challenging; you don't have to be real smart. It's emotionally hard. And that's really exhausting. And since it's emotions, lying works really well, so the lazy ones lie. And most people will do their job in whatever way is easiest, with whatever kludges and work-arounds that they can think of.
Tom
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easy guys no need to fight over my problem lol.
"They told you up front that there would be a 2 to 4 month wait. They called you several times to tell you about similar cars that had come in. They tried."
Techically yes they tried... to sell me a much more expensive vehicle loaded with crap i dont want or would ever use. To give you an idea my car was 23k (without taxes, tags or dealer fees).. the ones i was offered were near 27k (without taxes, tags or dealer fees) .
"And, if they'd come up with the exact car when you'd been out of work for say, 3 months, would that contract have bound you to take delivery of the car?"
If i had cancelled the order i wouldve forfeited my $500 deposit. We both know no sales contract forces someone to purchase an item when the buyer wont be able to afford it... the seller would lose big. But I do get your point though... yet the fact remains, the dealer agreed and signed on a price and a delivery agreement and took my money... and they want me to take to a more expensive alternative because they cant keep their end of the deal.
I understand it may be out of their control and stuff and im trying to be as civil as possible with the guys working in the dealership; but then again, they were happy to take my money and sign the agreement with me. So in this case, who screwed up? And who do they want to pay for their screw-up?
Remember they wouldve kept my 500 bucks if i was the one that screwed up and couldnt take the vehicle.
"In other words, OIO could have asked for his deposit to be refunded, but chose not to. "
Actually I did ask about a refund around the 5th or 6th month and I was told id lose the money if I cancelled the order. The 'chose not to' was more like a 'well, hell those 500 bucks will be gone either way so i may as well wait it out' thing.
Im waiting for monday and see what they tell me about the toyota money back thing.. if its not avaliable ill see if they can add a year more on the warranty and take it. If not ill just take my money back.
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Well, look at the contract; I can't see it. But I don't think they could keep your money in perpetuity. They may have lied in saying that you wouldn't get your deposit, but they would be hard pressed to show any damages with the waiting list for Priuses. Our contract says, "If you cancel this order (except as allowable by law)..." in other words, you can't cancel at whim. But you can cancel and receive a refund for failure to perform.
Tom
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it says the deposit is non-refundable. sound quite clear to me.
anyways, ill post an update on monday night.
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on the subject of "buy american" Honda has 5 plants in ohio and a design office in cal., toyota has 8 plants in the US, there are other mfg in the US but i'm to lazy to look them up.
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Isnt ford mostly owned by the Japanese? :)
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Tell them you want the car, but want to be compensated for the interest free loan you gave them. Prime plus 6 points for the hassles they put you through. If they stick to their guns, then tell them you would like a day to think it over and make sure they are aware that you will talk it over with a lawyer.
The bottom line is that they are making money on the car, and they just need to suck it up and eat their mistake.
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If that's all it says, and nothing else, then it's unenforceable. Just like making them produce a new 2004 Prius at the agreed upon price with agreed upon equipment is unenforceable.
I'm not saying you weren't handled badly. It stinks that many dealers treat their customers this way. The only thing you can do is vote with your dollars and buy a different car somewhere else.
Again, my advice is to move on. The BEST statement you can make is to buy a different car, then buy a used Prius in a few years doing the DOUBLE statement of green PLUS not forcing the manufacture of another Prius, when there are perfectly fine used Priuses all over the place.