Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: LeadDog on February 06, 2005, 09:25:13 PM
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I have two requests. First why have Attack and Fighter scores just make that one big score. A fighter should always be looking for opportunistic targets to damage.
Second:
I counted 21 kills last tour that I came into an opponent, cut his tail completely off or ripped a wing off. The plane butterflied from the sky and since another person from my country was closer to the spot the enemy plane impacts the ground they got the proxy kill without firing a shot. That represented almost 10% of my kills for a tour.
I suggest.
If plane impacts ground and has received 10% prior damage use current method for determining kill as if plane exploding in air and ignore proxy kill.
If plane is undamaged or less than 10% use the proximity code to give the kill.
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Item 1.
We used to have it in one catagory. But hit % gets realy messed up, I.E. you could pad your fighter hit % by just shooting buildings. To fix that problem we made 2 catagoryies for those who do both, and those who just do air to air.
Item 2.
You have some miss perceptions. Proxy kills are only awarded if no one has put any damage on the plane. If you are the only person who shot a plane and it crashes , you will get the kill.
So it already works like you ask, but with anything greater than 0 %.
What most likely happened in the example you gave was some one else had shot the plane up before you arived, you put the final shots on him and he lost his tail.
The person who has landed the most leathality on a plane will be awareded the kill.
If no lethality has been landed, and a plane crashes, a proxy kill is awarded to the person closest, and withing a certain range.
HiTech
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HiTech,
I'd still like to see damage tracking ended when an enemy plane has lost a wing or it's tail. Something to put a damper on the bottom feeders that shoot the crap out of falling wrecks to get kills they didn't earn.
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Thanks, HiTech. Good explanations.
Proxy kills also prevent impending kills from being negated by pursued victims who accidentally or intentionally crash before they are hit.
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What karnak said.
2 nights ago an enemy 262 was laying waste to our goons and buffs, I dove on it and snapped his wing off with a short 20mm burst.
As it spun straight down, some jackwad in a tiffie dove on it and pumped it full of quad 20mm and blew it up. I got the assist he got the kill.
Is there no way to mark a kill once critical damage is done?
aka if plane loses wing/tail/engine on fire the system will award the kill even though the affected plane is still spiraling downward?
im no programmer so im talking outta my arse here but if theres code to tell the client to display a lost wing or engine on fire it should mean the game can determine such damage..why not award the kill when such damage is identified?
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You can not award the kill at the time of damage. The outcome of the flight has still not been determined. The odds are he will crash and die,but that is not always the case.
But I have lost wings at times near ground and ended up with a ditch by luck.
What would be possible is that no more lethality points are tracked once certian componets fail. The plane could still be shot and more damage done, but no kill award tracking would be done, you still must stay living until the hit plane exits flight.
Been thinking about implementing this for a while, it just hasn't moved to the top of the list yet.
HiTech
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Originally posted by hitech
What would be possible is that no more lethality points are tracked once certian componets fail. The plane could still be shot and more damage done, but no kill award tracking would be done, you still must stay living until the hit plane exits flight.
I've spent all weekend in the Yak-9T, and I have to give this idea a big thumbs up. Dives a guy nuts to de-wing a plane with a single 37mm and get the assist lol. Don't get me wrong, I understand that this would still be possible with the above system, but it would be nice to get a little extra-credit when using the hammer-gun.
On a side note, I used to use the Fighter/Attack scores to track my performance in two seperate planes. I would only fly fighter sorties in the Yak-9U, and then only fly Attack Sorties in the Yak-9T. It gave me a very nice side-by-side comparison of my performance in each plane.
-Sik
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Why is that when I tear a plane to shreds and he tumbles into the ground wingless etc but does not explode that I'm not awarded the kill? Why not grant a ditch to the surviving pilot for his skill/luck of not dying but still award the kill ? Didn't they award kills for shooting down another plane, not necessarily if you killed the pilot or not?
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there is nothing like taking a wing or tail off to have the plane fall safely into the trees safely for a ditch.:(
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Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
Why is that when I tear a plane to shreds and he tumbles into the ground wingless etc but does not explode that I'm not awarded the kill? Why not grant a ditch to the surviving pilot for his skill/luck of not dying but still award the kill ? Didn't they award kills for shooting down another plane, not necessarily if you killed the pilot or not?
That has more to do with the ditch model that it does kill tracking. If that plane is in enemy territory, a kill will be awarded via a capture. If its in its own territory, its a sucessful ditch.
Without a complex model to account for every situation, how would what you want work? How is the system supposed to know whether you just flew 50 miles away from the battle before you ditched, or just took critical damage 20ft off the ground to slide in without being killed? Or if you lost an engine, and managed to brake away from the furball to ditch 1/2 a mile away?
Ive experienced what your talking about, but how do you give kills out for sucessful ditches without making it nearly impossible to ditch?
Originally posted by hitech
What would be possible is that no more lethality points are tracked once certian componets fail. The plane could still be shot and more damage done, but no kill award tracking would be done, you still must stay living until the hit plane exits flight.
Been thinking about implementing this for a while, it just hasn't moved to the top of the list yet.
HiTech
Yes please.
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Originally posted by hitech
What would be possible is that no more lethality points are tracked once certian componets fail. The plane could still be shot and more damage done, but no kill award tracking would be done, you still must stay living until the hit plane exits flight.
That is all that I ask.
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I would think the best way to do it would to award both a kill and a ditch if the pilot survives the landing regardless of where he is. Whats the real point of a ditch vs a capture anyway? You still go back to the tower so being captured makes no difference. Thoughts?
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"What would be possible is that no more lethality points are tracked once certian componets fail. The plane could still be shot and more damage done, but no kill award tracking would be done, you still must stay living until the hit plane exits flight."
oooh yes that sounds very nice.
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Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
I would think the best way to do it would to award both a kill and a ditch if the pilot survives the landing regardless of where he is. Whats the real point of a ditch vs a capture anyway? You still go back to the tower so being captured makes no difference. Thoughts?
Ditching gives the ditcher a reason to try and limp his plane home. I'm not a big score guy, but last night I took a rad hit over enemy territory and my second thought was "Gee, I hope I can get close enough to my base to ditch."
I don't know why that is, but it's just something that I work for when the time comes.
-Sik
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My thought is, if I can deny someone a kill by making it back to friendly territory I will. In real life those planes that limped away were probables, not kills.
I have sucessfully landed or ditched after a long limping flight:
no elevators (yes, both gone)
no ailerons on CV
chunks out of 1 wing
chunks out of both wings (that was difficult)
and so on
Where is the immersion or fun in attempting to rtb if anything short of stoping on the runway gives someone a kill...especially if they shot you up 15 mins ago, and 50 miles away.
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Originally posted by Murdr
My thought is, if I can deny someone a kill by making it back to friendly territory I will.
THATS it! that's why I do it. Thanks Murdr, I couldn't put my finger on it while not playing lol.
-Sik
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Besides, the current "soft" ditch model can be very fun sometimes
(http://479th.jasminemarie.com/films/lolkillss.jpg) (http://479th.jasminemarie.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Downloads&file=index&req=viewdownloaddetails&lid=9&ttitle=lolkill.zip)
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I do the same but am wondering how a fair kill can be awarded. With the extremely generous ditch model now there are many occasions where people get robbed of a proper kill. They were awarded probables if they could not confirm that the plane went down. In this case we have the magic of computers for this.
I would not be opposed to another option but am wondering what would be the most fair method. The not awarding kill points after critical damage is a good idea as well.
I just hate blowing a wing off someone between 2 bases in a low turn fight only to have them land it How about a landing within a mile of a friendly base count as a ditch, the others as a kill/ditch? This gets rid of the wide unmarked net that folks can unfairly deprive a fair kill?
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imo, this stems from many patches ago when the ditch model was tweeked to where it was nearly impossible to land gear-up. The fix for that gave us this ditch model that imo is softer than versions prior to the problem.
However, the older versions did seem to kill the pilot a little to easily in a crash landing. So without adding new modeling, which is more offensive? Your pilot arbitrarly being killed in what appears to be a survivable crash landing? Or being denied a kill once in awhile when you shoot the guy 50ft off the deck in his territory?
Id rather not return to the days when accidently clipping a few inches of wing on an object means an instant death for the pilot, instead of damage to the wing.
Im not saying Im aginst some sort of solution, but Im pointing out there is a balancing of factors, and the occational lost kill bothers me less than an unrealistic instant death.
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Originally posted by hitech
We used to have it in one catagory. But hit % gets realy messed up, I.E. you could pad your fighter hit % by just shooting buildings.
Now substitute buildings by buffs or vulches to pad the %.
Without considering "big targets" and vulches, hit% depends too much on weapon type, weapons placement, damage per hit, sync or unsync and even frame rate. If everyone fly the same plane all the time, with the same weapon set and with the same frame rate, then hit % may have some meaning, meanwhile what counts should be only the kill, not the rounds used to get it.
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Originally posted by MANDO
Now substitute buildings by buffs or vulches to pad the %.
Buildings dont shoot back, or call their ground object buddies to up the anti-vulch squad. Just sayn.
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What would be possible is that no more lethality points are tracked once certian componets fail. The plane could still be shot and more damage done, but no kill award tracking would be done, you still must stay living until the hit plane exits flight.
Been thinking about implementing this for a while, it just hasn't moved to the top of the list yet.
HiTech
This will be great. :)
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Originally posted by Murdr
imo, this stems from many patches ago when the ditch model was tweeked to where it was nearly impossible to land gear-up. The fix for that gave us this ditch model that imo is softer than versions prior to the problem.
However, the older versions did seem to kill the pilot a little to easily in a crash landing. So without adding new modeling, which is more offensive? Your pilot arbitrarly being killed in what appears to be a survivable crash landing? Or being denied a kill once in awhile when you shoot the guy 50ft off the deck in his territory?
Id rather not return to the days when accidently clipping a few inches of wing on an object means an instant death for the pilot, instead of damage to the wing.
Im not saying Im aginst some sort of solution, but Im pointing out there is a balancing of factors, and the occational lost kill bothers me less than an unrealistic instant death.
Why is it either or? I don't see how you can't have it both ways instead of compromising one way or the other. I'm suggesting the damage model stay the same unrealistically lenient way but award a kill and a ditch unless its within 1 mile of a friendly field which then grants the ditchee the benefit of the doubt.
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Originally posted by hitech
Been thinking about implementing this for a while, it just hasn't moved to the top of the list yet.
HiTech
Please add it to the list.
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Just curious, how different airforces did distribute kills when several pilots hit the same target? shared kill? kill plus several assists?
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Say Im on Mindano. The whole A42 peninsula is enemy territory. I fight at 42, take a few pings, no damage. I head back across the bay to A31. I foolishly stayed too long and run out of fuel while rtb and ditch in the bay off A31. Why does someone 40 miles away deserve a kill when Im in friendly territory and they had nothing to do with me ditching?
Im sure you can come up with an solution for that. No doubt I can think of more complications for your proposed model too. However, I didnt chime in to give you a hard time, but to point out a breif new rule probably wouldnt cover everything. And that HT's "ditch by luck" comment kind of implies he likes that aspect in the game.
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Originally posted by MANDO
Just curious, how different airforces did distribute kills when several pilots hit the same target? shared kill? kill plus several assists?
Chuck Yeager punched a pilot who shot at a German fighter that Yeager'd already shot down. The guy did it to get a "kill" by having the evidence on his gun camera.
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Originally posted by hitech
What would be possible is that no more lethality points are tracked once certian componets fail. The plane could still be shot and more damage done, but no kill award tracking would be done, you still must stay living until the hit plane exits flight.
Been thinking about implementing this for a while, it just hasn't moved to the top of the list yet.
HiTech
OUTSTANDING!!! Please do that, and please move it as high on the list as is humanly possible.
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I can buy the "ditch" in some instances... I hate that you get a "you have ditched" by running 3 feet off the runway.... Any "ditch" within the limits of the base (or within 500 yards for that matter) should be scored a LANDING.
A "ditch" where the plane is in pieces, should be scored a KILL. That plane is dead (destroyed or severely damaged). Ditching to me is running out of fuel, or minor structural damage and being forced down to land in the fields.
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A bit more about the % of hit.
I find no reason to punish those players that waste all their small cal MG ammo with the sole purpose of making their planes lighter. 190A5, 109G2, 109F and spits are good examples.
For example, I used 190A5 quite a lot and cant remember the last time I fired the MG17s.
BTW, some planes alow you to select the number of MGs and different ammo quantities, some others dont.