Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: MadBirdCZ on February 15, 2001, 02:09:00 AM
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The question is: "How do I recover from a spin?" Yeah I know it may sound stupid and I dnot say Im a flight sim veteran so I could use some help with this. Because it really makes me angry when I fly in my jug and all of a sudden a Niki (a red one of course) appears. As this happens I say to myself: "Im dead!"... Then he gets me in sight and starts to chase me. In some mysterious way I manage to give him a nice well placed burst from all the .50s just in middle of his loop and he detonates in the air... "Coooool" I say to myself (still climbing under a high angle) and then all hell breaks loose and my poor jug falls into a spin and I find that Im unable of recovering from it and so I smashed it into the ground (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) please help
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MB
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Well some aircraft are easyer to recover from than others, I fly the P-51 and have so for quite a while and I STILL get into spins I can get out of...I would like to know what others have to say awsell.
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MadBird...am assuming you are applying "normal" spin recovery technique here and are still unable to recover?
(i.e.- unload G's (nuetral stick), opposite rudder, and throttle to idle ?) Sometimes turning off the engine entirely helps.
Does not sound like you are entering a flat spin from the way you described you aircraft position prior to departing controlled flight, but if you are applying normal spin recovery it is possible you are in a flat spin (tough to recover from). Did you happen to film it ?
RAS
[This message has been edited by RAS (edited 02-15-2001).]
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The first rule is, let it happen, you spun, so you're dead, right? Fighting it makes it worse.
Centre the controls, clean up the plane (flaps, gear, whatever) can chop throttle.
Establish direction of rotation (look out the window), then, using rudder, steer into it the way you do a skidding car. As soon as you've stopped the rotation, you have to build speed. After all, a spin is a one wing stall, you're pulling to hard for your airspeed, that's why it happened. get fast, 200 mph in a jug, _then_ pull out. It's too easy to catch the spin, then while you're still at "mush" airspeed, to try to manouvre and do it all again. Keep the nose down and get the speed up first.
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Here's what you do, step by step.
1) Find out which direction you're spinning.
2) Shove the rudder in the opposite direction
3) Cut the throttle
4) Shove the stick forward to get the nose DOWN
5) Wait for recovery
If you get into a spin where the nose is high, and not low, do this:
1) Find out which direction you're spinning
2) Apply FULL throttle
3) Shove the stick into the forward corner based on the direction you're spinning. If you're in a left-handed spin, shove the stick into the left-forward corner.
4) Apply opposite rudder. If this doesn't work, try sticking the rudder in the same direction as the spin.
5) Wait for it to go into a more typical nose-low spin, or wait for recovery
The above works in a Yak to get out of the tail-spin it's known a little too well for. I've done it, even had film of it but that film isn't good anymore; 1.05 doesn't like 1.04's films.
Once you're in a normal dive, pour on the coal and wait for about 220mph of speed before pulling up. This makes sure you won't spin again.
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Flakbait [Delta6]
Delta 6's Flight School (http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6)
Put the P-61B in Aces High
"With all due respect Chaplian, I don't think God wants to hear from me right now.
I'm gonna go out there and remove one of His creations from this universe.
And when I get back I'm gonna drink a bottle of Scotch like it was
Chiggy von Richthofen's blood and celebrate his death."
Col. McQueen, Space: Above and Beyond
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From what you've described I'd have to guess that said niki removed some vital parts from your P-47.
BTW, you can check damage by hitting Control-D. Items in green are ok, but items in red are damaged/lost/inoperable.
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MadBird
Often, a spin can be prevented by an aggressive control application the moment you see the spin developing. The most important control is pitch...in this case, forward stick. If you can catch the departure soon enough, the airplane probably will not enter a developed spin.
At the first sign of an impending spin (uncommanded wing rock or wing roll), aggressively push your stick forward of neutral and hold it there. Now, wait and see what happens. Hopefully, the aircraft will wallow around a little but will eventually stop rolling and fly again.
If the aircraft enters into a developed spin (relatively constant rotation), then it's time to use your full blown spin recovery. That procedure is throtttle idle, full rudder opposite the spin, and then stick aggressively full forward and held there.
How do you immediately tell which way the aircraft is spinning?
First, switch to forward view if you are not there. Then take a second to analyze what you are looking at...the idea is to not stick the wrong rudder in thru haste! Focus on the HUD area. Then note which way the ground is moving...it will be generally moving right or left in your view. Pull the throttle to idle as you do this.
Then push full rudder in the direction the ground is moving...ie, if the background is moving to the left of the HUD, push left rudder.
Once you have the rudder in, then push the stick full forward, making sure you do not inadvertantly add any aileron at the same time.
Now hold everything where it is. It may take a turn or two for the aircraft to recover. If nothing happens, recheck the direction of rotation and your choice of rudder.
If that doesn't work, bail out!
Andy
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Sometimes if you hit the auto-trim without enough speed, you will get a wing stall. But its worse than a normal wing stall because your trim will have been put *way* out of whack.
Always check your trim tabs are roughly neutral, and then apply stall revcovery techinique that has allready been descibed.
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Spatula
=357th Pony Express=
From the Top 100 Things I'd Do If I Ever Became An Evil Overlord.
Mental note # 74
"When I create a multimedia presentation of my plan designed so that my five-year-old advisor can easily understand the details, I will not label the disk "Project Overlord" and leave it lying on top of my desk, it will be labelled "Timesheets". "
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One way I have found which usually works (and may be called a dweeb for it) is to hit SHIFT+X
Usually stops the spinning...let the speed build up & then pull out of it.
BigGun aka BgMAW
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you dweeb !!! has anyone ever tried changing prop pitch in a spin , I saw a show a while back where a guy went into a spin deliberatly and would let go of the controls, the plane came out of the spin on its own . BTW ,, that doesn't work in here .
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Paintmaw, I doubt that guy was trying that in a big heavy WWII fighter. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Some planes in AH will come out of a spin hands-off, so long as the spin is not too developed. Others require more work to recover.
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Lephturn - Aces High Chief Trainer
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Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome! (http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/)
"Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know." - Michel Eyquem, seigneur de Montaigne. (1533–1592)
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Originally posted by Ghosth:
From what you've described I'd have to guess that said niki removed some vital parts from your P-47.
BTW, you can check damage by hitting Control-D. Items in green are ok, but items in red are damaged/lost/inoperable.
Well my jug was unscratched... the only thing that was missing were few rounds from all 8 of my .50s and they made a "Great Ball Of Fire" of that Niki (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) Well... I wasnt smiling too long (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
And YES I know about Ctrl-D
Well thank you all for advice. I will try it as soon as I will have chance... (I just hope it wont be too often) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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MB
[This message has been edited by MadBirdCZ (edited 02-16-2001).]
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Just curious about the one thing no one mentioned, I believe - what alt do you need to recover from some of these spins? I rarely worry about entering spins but the last time I recall being in a spin my alt was under 3k, and I just bailed instead of trying to fight the spin.
Cheers
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Madbird do like I; pretend you're in Disneyland, Yell "YIIIHAAAA" and enjoy the ride (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Vosper that purly depends on the plane you're flying when you get into a spin. I've never recovered from a spin below 3k with enough time to pull out. The above technique I posted for getting out of the Yak's tail spin takes at LEAST 6k. Not including recovery. This is why I love low-level stall fighting and the morons who get into it. Yes that includes me! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) It's fun to watch some snot-nosed little jerk screaming "I'm an expert!" spin his Spitfiddle into the dirt.
For typical spins, you'll need about 5k to recover and pull out if you're quick. Tail spins are a lot harder to pull out of; in one I had to use flaps before I got out of it. I ended up being low and very slow, even though I started spinning at 12k. If you're a Yak or Typhoon driver, stay away from vertical maneuvers with less than 140mph of speed. This includes hammerheads; how do you think I got into that tail spin? Normal spins are beyond easy to get out of (big catch) provided you have around 5-7k of alt. If you're quick you can get out of it within 3k, but it's tricky.
Ever done multiple spins in a Bf-109? I have. It spins one way, you get out of it and do something normal like pull up. It starts spinning again! For those I look at the altimiter and if it reads less than 5k I just bail out. You can't recover from an aircraft that doesn't want to recover.
Another tip: check your trim tabs when you're in a spin. Nose high trim will STOP you from EVER recovering from it!! I was doing some spin testing offline and trimmed my F4U-1D nose-high. When I spun it the darn thing wouldn't recover; I kissed Mother Earth. When I went back and eyeballed the films I saw the trim tab position; full up. So make sure you set your trim tabs neutral or low in a spin before you being recovery procedure.
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Flakbait [Delta6]
Delta 6's Flight School (http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6)
Put the P-61B in Aces High
"For yay did the sky darken, and split open and spew forth fire, and
through the smoke rode the Four Wurgers of the Apocalypse.
And on their canopies was tattooed the number of the Beast, and the
number was 190." Jedi, Verse Five, Capter Two, The Book of Dweeb
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Was the spin tail first?? I've been in a few of those in the P47 and the F4U and never was able to recover at all.
-Westy