Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: beet1e on February 08, 2005, 05:01:45 PM
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A certain gentleman who was born the same year as me made a study of his countrymen and the way they defended themselves, their family and their property came to the conclusion that they were driven by fear. I hadn’t thought of it like that, but I’m wondering that he might possibly be right.
After 911 – on 912 – thousands of people cancelled their plans to travel by air. Such was the paranoia which swept certain parts of the world.
However, not everyone followed this lead. A friend of mine living in the US state of Arkansas didn’t. He flew as planned on 915. There was only one other passenger on the plane. So lightly loaded was this plane that instead of using the PA system for the safety announcement, the flight attendant walked down the cabin to where my friend and the only other passenger were sitting, and did the safety demo right there.
Another guy who refused to be scared out of the air was my Californian friend who lives near Oxnard, and who I have referred to in the past as CPP – Californian Pistol Packer – but a very reluctant one. (it’s never been out of the box in 15 years) He felt that the period immediately after an air outrage was the best time to look for a good deal on flights, so that’s what he did.
And there’s me. My first commercial flight after 911 was in 12/2001. I didn’t know what to expect, so I said to my family that if I got killed in an outrage, they were to carry on as normal – I would have died doing what I wanted to do. I refuse to be scared out of the air by terrorists, and I refuse to cancel the rest of my life. To allow yourself to be scared out of the air is a victory for international terrorists – it’s what they want.
So what it that I have in common with the other two? Well, forget about the rusting hulk under CPP’s bed. The three of us have the same attitude towards personal safety, but when we fly we don’t have so much as a butter knife for protection because the FAA mandated “No sharp objects”…. OK..
So who do we have on the other side of the fence? I have seen posts on this board by guys who have not flown commercially in a decade or more, and who will no longer consider it in the aftermath of 911. These are also the guys who can only feel safe carrying certain hardware for defence. Could it be that their preferred means of defence cannot be taken into an aircraft cabin? Awwww, shame. Or is it that they are driven by FEAR? The fear of another 911?
What’s even more strange is the way that some of these guys are so fearful of what might happen to the aircraft itself, they won’t fly on a commercial airliner unless it’s a Boeing. “If it’s not Boeing, I’m not going” is their somewhat paranoid refrain. Has there been a disproportionate number of Airbus tragedies? I don’t think so… But can you imagine it – turning up at the airport, and then turning around to go home because there’s been a change of plane, and it’s no longer a Boeing? LOL :lol
My friends and me – we’ll fly on anything within reason. We just don’t have that sense of paranoia that something bad is about to happen. Of course, that doesn’t mean it won’t – just that maybe we have a good sense of proportion.
So to those who fly. We all know that in this uncertain age it’s not without risk. And to those who won’t, or who returned home from the airport when they found out it wasn’t going to be a Boeing, and spent the rest of the day quivering under their bunks hugging their metal idol.
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i flew to the AH con a month after 9/11 and many times since... my reasoning is that now the airports are so locked up i really doubt someone would try something there again. plus at this point you're suicidal if you try to hijack a plane because you'd probably get beaten to death by the passengers.
other then getting ridiculously searched and detained by southwest, there were no other problems
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The only thing that keeps me from flying more is money.
Currently flying aerobatics and vintage airplanes... and I plan to live past 100 years and die in my sleep.
There's that.
Daniel
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Commercially, I fly when I have to do so. Short-haul legs I used to fly I usually drive now because it is faster than flying. Additionally, the leather power seats in my vehicle are infinitely more comfortable than airliner seats.
Still, if I can't drive it faster than I can fly it, I'll fly. I have no fear.
As for Boeing v Airbus, anyone with an ounce of computer literacy can see what the scheduled aircraft is long before the flight. I do pick Boeing aircraft as a first choice. But if I had no choice, I'd fly Airbus. It isn't nationalism, it's 25+ years of personal experience with Boeing engineering and reliability.
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I'm not flying because I'm afraid of computer databases. My father was stationed in Morroco, so I was born there even though I'm an american citizen. I'm worried about being flagged for being born in a country of origion for known terrorists. Ted Kennedy got on one of the no-fly lists and kept being detained from flying. He had to personally call homeland security and use his political weight to get off the list in whatever datatbase flagged him.
His comment when interviewd was wonderment at what the littel guy would do who didn't have his clout. I had trouble a few years back getting a replacement Social Security card when they pulled me up on the screen and it said place of birth, Morroco. I'm just not interested in some TSA graduet of our public multicultural educational system telling me to bend over one more time because I didn't smile enough on the first cavety search.........
By the way beet1e, calling a man/men out has more coup to it if you do it in person face to face. I ride through the San Francisco bay subway tunnel twice each day to work. It's 6 miles long under the bay, and an accepted terroist target.
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I've flown commercially once since 9/11. I didn't cut back at all because of anything. I just didn't have a need to fly other than in my own bird. Now I no longer have the plane and I have had one flight. No big deal, didn't feel the need for a weapon, I was flying to go get my weapons and bring them to a storage location. I didn't even spend any time hugging or fondling my weapons. I just moved the vault into the son in laws garage and went on about my travels. Gee beetle, I'm sure glad you told me what I should have been doing. :rolleyes: I'd have never known I wasn't living up to your misconceptions.
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I actually had a flight scheduled for the afternoon of 9/11, was going to Atlanta from LA. I didn't fly again until a month or two later, and I actually lost sleep over the issue. It wasn't that I was afraid of terrorists, it's just that I had constructed such an elaborate replay in my mind of the last seconds of each of the lost flights and fixated on it so thoroughly, that I was afraid of crashing in a general sense, not the specific 'terrorism' sense.
I don't know if that makes sense, but the vividness of the video in my head was such that I probably spent more time then ever before concentrating on the danger.
I had to sit myself down and impress the numbers back into my head. "I'm more likely to die while driving to the airport." I repeated that to myself a bunch of times.
My anxiety peaked as I walked down the jetway. As I boarded the plane, I paused for a moment at the threshold and touched the outside skin of the plane for good luck (something I've always done, silly, but everyone has routines in life).
As I sat down, I began to relax and pulled out a book. By the time the plane rotated, I had forgotten why I was so worried.
For the next few flights, I was still a bit nervous ahead of time. It didn't help that we had just had our first child and I was convinced that my dying would leave my wife and kid in poverty, but eventually it faded out.
Nowadays, I fly commercially every week or two and it's all butter. Taking the flying lessons has done wonders for my confidence in the air too. There's a difference between "knowing" (in the textbook sense) how flight works and Knowing (in the hands on sense) how it works.
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Not scared at all.
I ride a motorcycle which is statisticaly way way more dangerous and I'm not scard of that either!
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I have LOTS and LOTS of guns, and a carry permit, and one in my pocket right now.
I enjoy flying in small planes, but detest flying in commercial aircraft since I am large and the seat is small. And the next seat is usually filled by somebody like me, which surprises me since it MUST affect the weight and balance equations. I usually fly commercial about once a month.
Beet1e, are you afraid of guns?
shubie
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I flew on a United DC-10 the day after one crashed at Souix City. If it's gonna happen, it's gonna happen. Granted, that was a bit different than 9/12.
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Interesting aside on the 'small seat' thing. I fly all the time, but without exception it's been in aisle seats for the past few years until last friday. I checked in late and got stuck in a middle seat on a 737, between two people.
I'm a big guy, so I wasn't enthusiastic about it because of my last experience years ago, but I sat down. I was surprised to find myself comfortable. It wasn't an exit row, it wasn't an extended legroom plane, and it wasn't first class, but I was comfortable. I asked myself "What's changed?" and realized that the last time I had flown in that seat, I was 330lbs, but now I'm a wafer thin 255 (and falling).
Coach now feels like first class USED to. So, if you want to enjoy flying more, gain a couple hundred pounds, fly a bunch, then lose it. You'll save THOUSANDS! :D
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Yeah, this was about 3 years too late.
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rshubert Can we stop the gun fetish on this board!? Check the number of threads where NRA lovers wax lyrical about their bloody guns. ITS BOREING NOW!
:rolleyes: :aok
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I thought all men waxed their guns....lyricaly....so as to impress other men with their prowess....:) So as to share the nuances of interacting with the fairer sex. Ladies..grown women worth bringing flowers and diamonds to..........:D
In my case I like shooting my pistols, side arms, National Match M1A1 Rifle and so forth described in proper nomenclature. Whats the point of sharing an enjoyable hobby with anyone who can't get the terms correct? Lets see...waxing guns lyricaly and shooting rifles and side arms.
I see why you get ignored zulu..you dont communicate the concepts of these activites clearly. Ok guys lets open our NRA bible to page 666, 6th chapter, 6th paragraph, 6th line and repeat the mantra on rifle fetishes.......:D
This is my rifle, this is my gun, one is for shooting, one is for ...I forget whats the other one for guys>>>>>??????????
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I avoid flying only because security is a such a large pain the ass. ;)
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Like RPM, my outlook is "When it's my time to go, it's time." I'm not going to live in fear.
If it's a commercial flight, there's not much I can do about it. If I'm flying a small plane, the only way I'm going down is if a major part of the plane comes off. Anything else, and I can get the plane on the ground. About the other only concern I have with flying small planes is a mid air with some idiot that doesn't scan for traffic.
Chairboy; Having really broad shoulders myself, I've found that getting a window seat and setting a bit sideways makes the most comfortable seating for me.
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Some people fly Boeing for the same reason they only consider GM, Ford, and Chrysler when buying cars. It has nothing to do with Beetle's speculations, and it has everything to do with the idea of supporting your neighbor's business.
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Chairboy, I had an experience similar to yours but with opposite results. I sat center seat, mid cabin, on an American MD-80 from Miami to Dallas. I'm 6'3", 220 lbs. I was scrunched up, shins scraping the seat in front of me the whole flight. I've had more room sitting in the back seat of a '02 Mustang. I will not fly on an MD-80 again.
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My father was a comercial pilot into his 60's. After flying many years with him, his contemporaries, and his students, my only bias is that the pilot of my current flight is at least as accomplished as my father.:)
In reality there are very few bad pilots in the US or the EU when it comes to ferrying human beings. The insurance underwriters make it too expensive for any kind of a foul up.
If the terrorist were going to make flying in the US a horrific experience, they would have contiued for several days after 9/11. But in short order they would have been shut down due to how truely dedicated the US security culture is to protecting its citizens. One of the hall marks of a First World industrialised culture is it's dedication to protecting it's citizens in times of crises. All watermelon aside the US and the EU value the lives of their citizens.:aok Political and sociological ideologies aside..........:)
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Being a pilot and all, so I'm hardly likely to be scared of flying. 9/11 never put me off airline flying either. That was a one off and virtually impossible to duplicate.
If I was to be scared then a good test will come in April when I'm off to Vietnam.
There will be a total of eleven airline flights from commuter to 747 on that trip. Should be fun. :( .
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I flew to the AH Con in October after 9/11. I had a stopover in Salt Lake City, UT....it was interesting to see National Guardsman standing at security with M16s on thier person. I don't remember how full the flight was, but it wasn't memorably empty.
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Originally posted by bustr
By the way beet1e, calling a man/men out has more coup to it if you do it in person face to face. I ride through the San Francisco bay subway tunnel twice each day to work. It's 6 miles long under the bay, and an accepted terroist target.
That's interesting - I used to make that exact same journey when I lived in Concord and worked in downtown San Francisco at one of the big banks. Next month I have to make a journey via another recognised terrorist target - the Eurotunnel under the English Channel - and that's around 25 miles long. I've never been to your country of birth, but I thought you should know that in the English language it's spelt Morocco.
Tarmac said Some people fly Boeing for the same reason they only consider GM, Ford, and Chrysler when buying cars. It has nothing to do with Beetle's speculations, and it has everything to do with the idea of supporting your neighbor's business.
Hehe, not even the airlines themselves do that! You might want to share your code of moral ethics with the CEOs at United Airlines, American Airlines, US Airways, NorthWest Airlines and America West - to name but a few, all of whose fleets include Airbus. :D Why is that? Cost effectiveness maybe? Creating a better deal for their business customers? You know, supporting their neighbours' business and all... ;)
Rshubert! Beet1e, are you afraid of guns?
I'm afraid of being fat! ;)
Sandman/Mr. Toad - yes, I know how you feel about the security being a PITA and all the delays that result. We've been dealing with that in Europe for so many years that I just don't notice it any more.
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Cindy and I flew to Copper Mountain Colorado to ski on January 1st,Y2K.
Nah,we aren't scared.
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Originally posted by beet1e
We just don’t have that sense of paranoia that something bad is about to happen. Of course, that doesn’t mean it won’t – just that maybe we have a good sense of proportion.
So there it is. The more guns we have, the more crime we'll see. It really is that simple.
Irony.
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(QUOTE) Are you afraid -- of flying? (UNQUOTE)
No.
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Bustr I get ignored because every one else in here is too busy w***ing over their bloody guns lol :rolleyes: :rofl
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You certainly seem fixated on guns; seems like you bring them up in every post.
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Originally posted by OneWordAnswer
Irony.
OneWordAnswer = ra (persona non grata)
-contemplation
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Originally posted by Toad
You certainly seem fixated on guns;
Hehe, I can think of people on this board who are far more fixated on guns than Zulu7. ;)
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I flew into DFW a week after the American flight bounced off the LBJ freeway and cought one of the water towers with a wing. You could see the gash in the tank as we were landing.
BTW, as a comic once said, it's not flying we're afraid of. It's suddenly not flying that scares us.
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Originally posted by Sandman
I avoid flying only because security is a such a large pain the ass. ;)
If you chose a better spot for your carry on luggage that wouldn't be such a pain...........:p
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Originally posted by Maverick
If you chose a better spot for your carry on luggage that wouldn't be such a pain...........:p
But you have to have carry on luggage - where else are you going to store your nail scissors and manicure set? :p
I can't understand why the FAA banned sharp objects. After all, scissors etc. are inanimate objects - hardly likely to crawl out of your hand luggage and attack the crew all by themselves. It's not fair that the law abiding citizens are not allowed to have scissors in an aircraft cabin.
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I flew last year, wasn't scared at all, cause I knew, if someone was gonna take this plane, they were gonna take it from my dead cold hands.
I seriously saw two arabic guys on my plane and got freaked for a moment, but, what are two guys gonna do, but then I saw a guy with the shirt, Bang Bus, thats when I got scared...
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Originally posted by beet1e
Hehe, not even the airlines themselves do that! You might want to share your code of moral ethics with the CEOs at United Airlines, American Airlines, US Airways, NorthWest Airlines and America West - to name but a few, all of whose fleets include Airbus. :D Why is that? Cost effectiveness maybe? Creating a better deal for their business customers? You know, supporting their neighbours' business and all... ;)
I know it. Their job is to cater to their customers so that they get our money. So I let them know what my desire is regarding plane choice. So far, they've catered to me every time... or maybe it's just always worked out by chance. I'll never know. :)
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I'm not afraid of flying. I love flying, even commercial.
That being said, I'd stay away from: Airlines belonging to Islamic nations, airlines belonging to poor countries and Asian airlines (last one because they have a pretty abysmal safety record in Asia)
I'd probably fly on El Al because I know their security is top notch.
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I was talking to a girl today that refused to ever get on an airplane because she had a dream that was how she was going to die. Her husband was forced to cut their honeymoon short by 4 days because they had to drive. Just confirmed my opinion of how ****ing stupid most women are and how *****whipped most men are.
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why would any man be afraid to fly?
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I'm more afraid of having ears fuxored up during the descent.
Last sunday arrived to JFK and had ears fuxored in a funny, but an annoying way, for a day.
The plane came straight down from the cruise altitude to a visual landing, only leveling out for a little while at something like 3-5000ft. Was cool tho, another plane came parallel with ours on the other runway.
Things sounded bit funny on the plane too, when flying for 8.5 hours at who knows how high.
Oh yeah.. at some point I was discussing with an airplane mechanic about the accidents and stuff (sat next to me)
Got some cool pictures too :)
Greenland looks neat from above.
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Originally posted by Fishu
The plane came straight down from the cruise altitude
I would think that this would be outside of the envelope for normal flight operations.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
I would think that this would be outside of the envelope for normal flight operations.
Figuratively speaking.. since the pilot even extended spoilers wayyyy high.
I don't think I've ever had to descend that fast in a plane.
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"it's not flying we're afraid of. It's suddenly not flying that scares us."
:rofl Yep that is about right!
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Yes and No. I LOVE to fly.... but I still manage to freak a little at the slightest turbulence. A good hard bump and I'm imagining a wing snapping off :lol
I don't get it.
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Originally posted by Tumor
Yes and No. I LOVE to fly.... but I still manage to freak a little at the slightest turbulence. A good hard bump and I'm imagining a wing snapping off :lol
I don't get it.
I'm sure you're not alone. I don't like airliner turbulence - even though it's nothing like as bad as light aircraft turbulence can be. :eek:
I remember coming home from New York one time - there was a wind blowing that is known there as the Nor'Easter. Soon after reaching cruise alt we all had to belt up again and were given a vigorous shaking that went on for two whole hours, and only stopped after the plane cleared land and started out over the Atlantic. :(
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Never feared flying. Chance of dying in an airplane crash much less than dying in a hospital accident let alone car accident. Imagine casualties from a 9/11 type attack happening once a week and you begin to approach the low end of the accidental hospital death rate. This only from the US, just think how much higher if we included all the world's hospitals/clinics.
A month after 9/11, I was on a flight to Japan for vacation.