Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Hangtime on February 06, 2000, 06:50:00 PM
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As you might guess from the subject, we met in the unfriendly skies at last. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I was RTB to f2 late last night (@3:00am eastern) and almost to the base after a 4 kill sortie at F5 when I note a co-alt unknown dot following along behind. I've got 1/3 tank of gas left and a few hundred rounds; so I say "what the hell.. lets give the guy a look.."
It's a ME109 and at the merge he goes up.. a big smooth loop. I was fairly slow; about 320IAS at the merge; expectin to dance; but this guy's got plenty of E up; and he uses it and the plane perfectly. I manage to intersect the loop; and get a shot at about 700 yards.. a few innefectual pings.
As I top out he tromps the rudder and slices me outta the sky with one short burst...
SYSTEM: Enemy #1 shot down Hangtime
I type on the open freq "Nice one!" he types back "Yes. I know." I have no idea at this point that it's Hristo.. and I hop to the hangar; dump the ext tanks; load a 1/4 tank and head back out to get this guy. Again we meet at co-alt, again he goes up..
SYSTEM: Enemy #2 shot down Hangtime
Now; I'm not stupid (tho I was sure feeling mighty dumb just then) and I'm always impressed by great flying; so I type to him, "Very Nice! is that an F4??" I get back.. "Hang; this is Hristo; and it's a G10"
Hunh! Well now; normally, you ain't gotta club me over the head with a tire iron to get my attention; but thats just where I was right then. Over matched by plane and pilot; I set out again to get my comeuppance. Hristo types "Ok; now this time; u jump me"
Uncertain what 'jumping him' entails; I held course and alt; and poured the coal to the stang (still accelerates worse than the sheep) and watch as Hristo dumps some alt and goes under with about 800 yards seperation. I execute a lo yo-yo and manage to get fairly deep in his six. A novel view; Hristo's G10 from the back quarters.. I reflect that not many get a look at this end of his plane..
Now he starts a series of sprial climbs.. I get no shot opportunities and instead; watch in awe as he runs me out of E, smoothly; effortlesly climbs right over me and..
SYSTEM: Enemy #3 shot down Hangtime
Dammo. Hristo; hats off ta yah. A superb plane; superb pilot. I wuz whipped up on both counts; fair and square. Thanks for givin me the lesson! (yah bum (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif))
SALUTE!
Hang
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PALE HORSES
"I looked, and behold; a Pale Horse, and it's riders name was Death, and Hell followed with him" Rev 6.8
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Awwww! I was expecting a film... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) Great story though! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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And Hristo wants a K-4? What is he, nuts?!?
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
You're a crazy man, Hristo.
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leonid
129 IAP VVS RKKA
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Thanks, Hang. As you can guess, I was delighted with the outcome and saved all three films (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Yes, I fly under ‘enemy’ handle, mostly to fight against the odds and practice defensive flying (which translates – don’t check my score). Enemy is rather Hristo’s Training Arena, since we didn’t get one by now.
However, this time I played pretty safe.
Here are links to all 3 duels and some analysis :
fight 1 (http://www.angelfire.com/nt/regoch/hangtime1.ahf)
In first fight I was at G-10 top speed at that alt. I figured (wrong) that this p51 was taking off and could in no way be as fast as me at this point. So I planned to avoid HO and zoom up on the merge to see what happens.
Just as I hoped, the Pony lead turned me. He did it in horizontal, which gave me even more edge so I thought of doing high a yoyo, but at this speed it might not be just too wise (large turn radius). I lazily zoomed and watched Pony pass below me.
I followed your nose low sustained turn with lag pursuit. My fear was that you would pull me into compression and actually outturn me at high speed, so I followed all the way to the deck when we both were slow. With compression trap avoided, I pulled lead and managed to land hits.
fight 2 (http://www.angelfire.com/nt/regoch/hangtime2.ahf)
On second merge I was fast again. I tried to go under Hang, so he might do a nose low lead turn. Still, he managed to pass below me, so only option I could think of was to zoom again. I pulled a tad to hard and reversed to soon. Going down, I met Hang almost HO, while I avoided it. Hang landed some pings, but luckily no damage. I waited for Pony to go down and followed. Managed to get in favorable position: we would meet when I was going down and Hang coming up. As he was getting slower, I managed to get a shot.
fight 3 (http://www.angelfire.com/nt/regoch/hangtime3.ahf)
While playing safe was good for morale, I tried to make fights more dangerous.
So I invited Hang over open channel to jump me with advantage this time. I went low and Pony came higher. I expected him to immediately Split S on me, and my plan was to use smaller turn radius of slower plane against faster diving plane.
Much to my surprise, he dove on me but I was still faster. So, my first option was out. I zoomed to some 200 IAS, with Hang following out of guns range. I reversed down to cross paths by 90 degrees, without clear idea what exactly to do. However, fight developed in kind of rolling scissors where I gained favorable position very very slowly. I did make a mistake though, and zoomed too high which gave Hang time and separation to come almost HO. Fearing he would take it and being to slow to avoid it, I accepted it. Luckily, seems speed and control disparity worked in my favor again. Soild burst along the fuselage solved the fight.
Thanks, Hangtime. These types of fights were really fun last few months. Arena is not just gang banging after all (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Now off the subject a bit. I did not mention it earlier, but what the hell… Right now pay-to-play is out for me due to several reasons. However, there is one thing that would hook me to sign-on, and it is the Training Arena. When we get it, count me as a subscriber (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Hi guys could Hristo explain to me what he means by a training arena ?? and why would it snag him to pay to play.
BTW Hang/Hristo nice recount of the fights from both sides.
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Hotdog
CO RNZAF Warbirds/Aces High
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Training Arena - Where you practice flying and learn tactics and tricks against qualified trainers. They will give you good advice of what to do in given situation and what you should improve in your flying technique.
The advantages are clear enough: let's say you want to practice scissors. You contact a trainer and he can demonstrate it for you, you can try it against him and he can point out your mistakes etc.
And no gang banging (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
[This message has been edited by Hristo (edited 02-07-2000).]
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and i guess we have a trainer fer the 109's already (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Phillip "Duckwing6" Artweger
Flight Officer "E" Flight
Skeleton Crew (http://www.picknowl.com.au/homepages/oneshot/main.htm)
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Hmm can t get the films to run. Using 1.00 Patch 2 in 1024, 32 bit colour depth. When I open the film I just stay in the tower, play, rewind, FF all don't seem to work. What am I doing wrong?
Sascha
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Jagdgeschwader 77 "Herz As!"
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Same here..films are dead..wont run at all..
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works fer me...
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Works fine here. Are you using AH to view the films? You have to start AH and them push the film tab. Then load the film.
Great films Hristo!! Some real good flying! You don't seem to waste any shots. And that was great deflection shooting with Hang under your nose in film one.
Wrek
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Wonder if there is another program that can be used to view films from AH? I would like to see some of these films at work while on lunch break (snicker, snicker (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)), but can't use AH on my work PC 'cause of no 3d card. Any ideas?
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The Pagan
I'll be watching.
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Great films! It looks so easy when viewing them...some of you guys scare me (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/eek.gif)
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Cant get films to run either (no problm with own films).Shame, sure could need the hints.
danish
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Good films.
First... Hristo=Enemy! LOL, here I was taunting you the other night thinking you were a regular dweeb. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Notice that when you and all your buds nailed me, I did congratulate you at least. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I hope you understand that I like to stir up the "HATE" (TM) once in a while just for fun. <G>
Ok, fight one: A good example of what NOT to do when flying an E fighter like the Pony or the Hawg. Hristo does his thing right, but Hangtime pulls the absolute worst move possible for the situation. That only works if you are flying a Zeke.. and even then it's dicey. Hang, in that bird you gotta stay in the verticle and you must conserver your energy and speed. The 109 is a dangerous adversary for the Pony in the vert, but it will kick your bellybutton if you burn your E and try to turn with it. The 109 can accellerate much better than a 51, so you need to conserver you E at all costs. That means a verticle, upward merge. Only go down if you are too slow to go up and he is much faster. Then run away. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Fight two: Better merge this time, but hang needed to be closer to Hristo and use a gentler pull into the verticle (up) to conserve E. Once it was clear Hristo had more E Hang had no choice but to run at the first opportunity. After that first pass was likely the best time to disengage, but Hangtime stayed in the fight. Not sure what he did after that, he should have stayed tight on Hristo's 6, even if he pulled away and preserved the angles advantage until a good disengagement opportunity presented itself. Difficult to tell from Hristo's point of view what Hang was doing there though.
Fight three: Ok, Hangtime was high, but Hristo is doing like 400 MPH, so I still think Hristro has more E here. Looked like Hangtime miss-judged his speed and didn't pull down at him early enough and ends up way behind. Then they enter a cool rolling scissors, where Hangtime somehow stays alive for a while. Did you pop some flap Hangtime? I bet he did, and that bled more E and meant a certain, though delayed, death. At the end it looks like Hang ran out of E and mushed out bad, allowing Hristo to nail him.
For those who have trouble with the films, here is a solution. Delete or move all other films from your films directory. Rename these ones film1.ahf, film2.ahf, and film3.ahf. Now go into Aces High, hit film, go Open, and double click on each film. That worked for me.
For those watching that fly pure E fighters like the Pony and the Hawg. Don't do what Hangtime does in these films! Sorry Hangtime, but those are classic mistakes and I want everybody to learn from them. After the first pass in each fight it was clear that Hangtime lost the Energy advantage, and it was time to bug out. Use the speed of the stang to extend and even the odds a bit, then you can reverse and try again. Note... you must extend REALLY fast for this to work, near the 109's compression speed. If you try to just run away level the 109's accelleration will eat you up. You know you can't out-climb it, so don't go there. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Bottom line is that Hangtime was in an E fighter engaging without a clear E advantage, so unless Hristo blew it, Hang was meat. The 109 and N1k are particulary dangerous in this situation because their great accelleration rates will mean they can gain E much faster and can eat up any advantage you have quickly. Your only hope is to conserver E with every move (verticle moves, upward if possible, low G's) and hope to nail him early. Once it's clear you are defensive, RUN AWAY! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Lephturn
The Flying Pigs
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Renaming the films worked: thx lephturn!
<danish turns away and dissapears into the huge film studio, you just hear his voice raise over the mumble of the crew: "Everyone shut up and get ready!...and................ACTION!"<
danish John Ford danish
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Just out of curiosity, what is a 109's compression velocity?
Thanks!
buhdman, out
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Walt (buhdman) Barrow
(formerly lt-buhd-lite)
The Buccaneers - "Return with Honor"
home.earthlink.net/~wjbarrow
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Lephturn.. gee; thanks for the synopsis. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Fight one.. Yah mention E.. wuzzat?? <GGG>
Look.. no doubt about it; I underestimated the quality of the pilot in the gustav, but I did not underestimate the plane itself. FYI I was doin 320 at the merge; goin UP was outta the question. Had I been doin 450 or so; UP UP UP was where I woulda gone. Frankly; saggin way under him in E, the only place to go was down.. and hope the other guy made a mistake. When facing an 'e' loaded gustav the best thing to do is get him to turn.. I was hoping he'd answer my 'flat' turn (hard to see it here, but I was keepin the nose down on the first turn.. didn't even try to ride up with him till I was fully around) with a flat turn of his own.. but he went up. Now the ONLY place I can go is down....
So I figured I'd keep the stang comming around; descending, runnin my e up a little while hoping I could load him up to compression. Gustav's don't dive all that well.. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Once on the deck I had hoped to scrub him over and in front.. where I can put him into a scissors.. (and there's not 10 pilots in this sim who can pull that kinda under the cowl deflection shot)
So.. in answer to your statement regarding me zooming up for an extension.. at 320ias on the merge.. not an option. He'd a had me two turns sooner. I just didn't have enuff speed. Only option once the fight starts.. get him flat turning if possible. The place to get that goin is on the deck. Thats where I went. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
The right answer at the first merge with the relative e states being what they were?.. no turn at all; and damn sure no climb.. shoulda kept right on going. Toledo wouldn't have been too far. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Fight Two: Get closer too him? Less seperation?? LOL! Not bleedin likely. The best possible merge for dissimilar AC or AC with an E disparity is a wide seperation. I get close to the other guy on a merge only when the e states are similar and I'm SURE I can get the angles.
Next point regarding 'close speration merges'.. who want's to risk 'old faceful'?? Catchin that kannonen in my face was NOT an option. You'll note I was tryin to get the E up.. and less than two minutes from takeoff,. how much E yah think I had?. LOL.
In all three fights he had a huge edge on weight.. a half tank in his Gustav vs 1/3 tank in the stang.. by fight two he's already off to about a 1/4 tank. No compaints here.. and not historicly inaccurate. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) He had nowhere near enuff fuel on board to go home in AH; but enuff ta kill me fer sure. He also had a huge E edge a all times. Again, I want to be clear.. I'm not complaining! Just pointing out that I was and am well aware of the relative merits of loadout states and energy differnces and AC types.
I had no advantages in either plane or loadouts. That Gustav held all the cards and we both knew it. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)I wanted to see how he'd play the hand.. No way to get parity; knew it before I thumbed the starter. Call it "Kobiashi Maru"
At best all I could hope for is a snapshot. About 1 in 10 of these will crush a Gustavs engine.. and thats what I went for. You'll note he just calmly does two smooth loops.. and scrubs my E, then rudders over and drops on me. Perfectly done.. done it myself to literaly hundreds of hapless opponents myself. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) And yes I agree.. the right thing to do was get the hell outta Dodge.. and do it BEFORE turn one.
When he went up the first time in fight two I had my chance to bolt.. but you'll notice he didn't start his zoom till I'd committed to the turn. (Sly bugger that he is. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)) Again.. knowing what the right thing to do was is not really the issue.. I didn't come to the fight to tease him and extend till he ran outta gas and kill him on the ditch... all options I was concious of. I came to turn with a Gustav in the hands of a master.. and learn. Thus; my fate was sealed. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
In fight three; a classic.. and I almost had him in the bag. Again; theres not 10 pilots in the sim that could keep that gustav outta my guns envelope in those circumstances.. watch it again and watch his speed. I got the Gustav where I want it and he wont give me a shot! He maintins that bird smooth as silk on the tops of those spirals AT LESS THAN 100MPH! Gents; it don't matter if yer on a bicycle in a scissors armed with a .45.. if yah can get to a lower controllable airspeed you can kill the bugger. You'll see three shot opportunites develop and see him chop the throttle all three times.. and I slide by.. also as steady as a rock. Yep I had flaps out here; and when he scrubbed me clean of airspeed and had to dive to get some air over my controls he was on the perch. End of story.
The only fight I had a chance in was that last one.. the other two I was trumped when I went for him at the merges. The last one he gave me an alt advantage; but as you can see; at 400ias to my 300 IAS (less than 2 minutes from wheels up; 1/4 tank; he has less than 1/8th now) theres only one place for me to be.. under him ASAP. And thats where I went.
After watching these three films I feel better.. I figured it correctly.. he flew a superb fight; kept his bird outta my guns envelope and used his superior E states to merciless advantage. And when I got him on the mat in the scissors he demonstrated to my satisfaction that he won with skill.. not the plane.
Salute again Hristo! Superb flyin.
And Lephturn.. thank you for or the critique. You are entirely correct in pointing out the errors in tactical considerations between the platforms; the lessons for the less experienced among us are important ones. They should learn from my mistakes.. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Salute; sir, and thanks!
Hang
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PALE HORSES
"I looked, and behold; a Pale Horse, and it's riders name was Death, and Hell followed with him" Rev 6.8
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Guys, I <Salute!> you! A beautiful aerial ballet, and very instructive discourse on the three films. This has helped me to realize, once again, that I'm not even in the same ballpark with you guys ...
It has also helped me realize I need to limit the number of planes/flight models I fly and concentrate if I hope to begin to approach these techniques and aircraft mastery.
Again, thanx for sharing these, and the instructive dialogue.
<Salute!>
--Gator
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Yeah, I know this was a 1v1 situation, so running away wasn't part of the deal. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I only pointed that stuff out so we can all learn the best way to handle the situation. Glad to see you understand that I'm not trying to carve you up. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) You were a great sport to keep coming back to him. An E fighter at an E dis-advantage is not likely to live. <G>
About your fist merge though... I'd go up with 320, but I'm used to the Hawg and it's a bit better at low speed. Since he was faster, down it is, but WAY down would be my choice in that case. A slightly oblique split-S would have been a better choice in my book. At least with the Split-S you would get some speed from that turn, instead of burning most of it by going quite flat. (At least it looked that way to me.) If you had gone nearly straight down you could have gotten fast and maybe forced him into a high-speed situation. Again though... in this case blasting to the deck and going for an extension wasn't really in the spirit.
I do agree about one thing... there is no way in hell I could have made that amazing shot he made almost totally blind. Damn, what a shot.
Regarding the close merge... I keep it close to keep HIM from lead-turning ME in the verticle. In this case he knows you can't get to him, so it's less of a big deal, but I'd keep him close to keep him honest. That doesn't mean letting him have a free HO shot, but the closer he is the more he will have to turn post-merge to get to me. No I know you didn't have much E and certainly less than he had.. just observing that I'd want to keep it close to avoid giving him some free angle.
Hristo had all the advantages, so kudos to you for going for it anyway and then posting it for us all to chew on. Thanks bud.
BTW, that rolling scissors was well done on both of your parts. A classic example if I've ever seen one. I'm going to keep this for the next time somebody asks me what a rolling scissors is. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Lephturn
The Flying Pigs
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Thanks, Lephturn. I remember being shot by you and keeping taking off from that vulched field over and over again. No problem with that, my mistake (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
BTW, Torque is the guy I have real problems with. He knows he can outmaneuver my 109 at high speeds and he usually does it. He also uses roll advantage well indeed. And d9 is no safe place to be near him (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
And since this thread has developed into useful combat analysis, here's another one :
bounce (http://www.angelfire.com/nt/regoch/bounce.ahf)
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Hey Hristo got any films of me....
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In fact I do, Torque. Rather long one, I forgot to switch off/on recorder so it consists of several sorties (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
However, I will include it in this post when I get home (in about 6 hrs from now).
In short, the description is:
Hog dives on me, but I am fast and decide to outrun it and outclimb it. I manage it in few minutes chase, just as we pull out of canyon. Hog takes shots from below, but is to slow to hit. I dive on it, but Hog runs back in canyon where he dives and picks up speed. He uses canyon wall to get vertical separation and outmanuvers me at high speed. I cross paths and hit back over the canyon wall. Hog is d8-9 behind now and just few seconds from safety over the wall I lose a wingtip.
Few minutes after I rope a dope few Spits, Nikis and a Hog. I manage to kill a Spit, while others take shots but are too slow to aim properly. Hog is my next target after the loop. He rolls like he is going to perform a Split S. I am aware it might be a trick, for he can roll back as I pass him. However, I cannot stay there because Niki is d11 behind me, so I extend. I manage to hit Hog oil, though. Hog rolls back as I pass and now he is d4 behind. Instant death.
Now I know who this driver is and I try to find him. I meet one Hog going HO at me in mass furball and I get behind him after few manuvers. Got him (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Next time I catch a Hog low and slow and shoot it down. Damn, wrong guy (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) But the right Hog dives on me now. I am without speed and 100 ft off the deck with Hog at d4-5 behind. My only hope are 2-3 Spits behind the Hog. He shoots me down, but dies second after to Spits. Arghh, them Spits could be at least a bit more effective with all that turning and guns !
On next occasion Hog dives on me. I outrun it. He disengages, but I reverse. He reverses too, goes fast below me and pulls up for s hot. I make mistake and turn nose down at high speed. We end up in rolling scissors. Now this guy pulls an incredible reversal. From what I have seen, it was rudder reversal at extremly low speed, flaps out. I have never seen a Hog driver do such reversal. This is his only chance, for if he misses it, I get an edge. Bah, he shoots me down, obviously solid burst at my slow plane.
Few days later, I see Hog kills fellow countryman. I see Torque in the buffer so I take my chance. He has a fuel leak, but stays to fight. Goes for snapshot, I get in favorable position, he dives. I follow, but he dives below friendlies so I bug out.
Next time, I find low Hog, and by evasives he made I knew it was him. Again, I am outmanuvered at high speeds and watch him barrell roll behind me and get a shot. I pull up, wings 180 degrees out of phase, he misses. We do rolling scissors and after few reversals I find him low and slow. I dive and knock his wing with 30mm. Then I find bloody slope working against me. Arghh, could not pull up. I crash, while Hog still pauses in the air without a wing. No kill in the buffer.
Last one was where I was over f2, few Spits, Nikis and Hog were taking off, ack up. I decide to swoop down on one of them, badly compressed. Another Hog recognizes the attack and maneuvers to get a lead. I disregard the danger because he should be too slow, just after taking off. Few ping on the first Hog and I extend, feeling safe with all that speed. Then both wings gone, plane on fire, engine out. I ask on open channel "d15 ?!?!". The guy replies "d9". Yes, you can guess who the other Hog was (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
[This message has been edited by Hristo (edited 02-08-2000).]
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Great Thread guys especially with the attached films ! -> i want a hard copy with pictures and diagrams please...
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Phillip "Duckwing6" Artweger
Flight Officer "E" Flight
Skeleton Crew (http://www.picknowl.com.au/homepages/oneshot/main.htm)
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Got em to work now. For some odd reason the fils were named like this "hangtime1.ahf..ahf", after deleting the second extension they worked fine.
Sascha
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Jagdgeschwader 77 "Herz As!"
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<< Taking notes >>
Out-friggen-standing.
Best thread of the week.
Thanks a bunch to Hangtime & Hristo for sharing your knowledge and film clips. (oh, and lephturn too (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif))
This almost feels like a Training Academy in the early stages. When is the next class?? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
To quote a Depeche Mode song, " I'm always willing to learn, if you've got something to teach..."
<salute>
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Arc T
" Always 2 there are....A Master.....and an Apprentice..." - Yoda
[This message has been edited by ArcTangent (edited 02-08-2000).]
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Here’s my first and only fight with Torque saved on film.
film (http://www.angelfire.com/nt/regoch/torque1.ahf)
First mistake was to wait too long after he stalled out.
I followed him into the canyon where I expected him the dive to pick speed and push me into compression.
Torque rolls and pulls into dive to make enough vertical separation and comes back up with hard pull up on the stick. Being compressed, I can’t follow his hard pull up and overshoot.
Still being faster, I found myself in front of him and that was when I expected to die. Seems he was surprised as me, or rather to slow to make a shot. So we proceeded. At one moment I realized I it might be wise to disengage and come back again. Now that I think of it, a better option was to continue the rolling scissors, he was too slow for continuous pull ups.
Next mistake was to snap my left wing for some reason (used to happen quite often to me at that time). That gave him few valuable seconds which proved fatal.
Just as I expected to get safe I lost a wingtip. 109 is unrecoverable with lost wingtip, especially at that alt. Notice the range tho (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Damnit Hristo don't be so nice was try’n to dislike you now I find that's impossible.
geeze some people......
BTW that last duel with Hang was just downright awesome.
Time for a website were ppl can post their film,i really enjoy watching them.
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Jeeze Torque.. u about the scariest guy I've ever seen in a F4U! I've spent many an evening mowing down the guys that unfortunatly saw you first.. (assist assist assist) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Only other pilot I've ever seen that could make blue birds fly like that wuz 'ol Scop in WB's when he wuz flyin the F4F and F6F.. truly amazing. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Salute; u da man in 'ol Big Blue!
Hang
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I'm not sure how to upload files to this BBS, but I have a good film of me going rolling scissors Me-109 vs Me-109. It was a fun fight until TS showed up in his stang ;-). I just didn't have enough E to avoid both of them. I don't know who the other 109 driver was, but it sure was fun while it lasted!
If anyone is interested in the film, just e-mail me and I will send it to you. Or tell me how to upload it =).
Cool thread. Film is defintiely the easiest way I have had of explaining rolling scissors to someone! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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It sounds like i'm gonna have to turn on my Film recorder on my Torque hunting missions!! I love watching other peoples tactics and fights. This in itself has convinced me to fork out my daughters shoe money, and pay for the next month. Poor thing.
daniko
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With the sudden appearance of the search function it's nice go back the memory lane...I didn't have time to post to the board back then because I was in the army but I distinctly remember reading this thread... :)
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1Wmaker1
Lentolaivue 34
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Anyone have any idea why I cannot save the files? Ive tried opening them in other windows nothing. If I try to save as, I get an error.
Nim
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Hmm save as works for me, in both IE and Opera.
Try to "Restore default settings" in your IE settings page, in case you've change something.
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Ouch.
Gawd, I think I'm still bleeding... killin that guy has been my windmill fer 3 years. :(
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Nope, I cant get 'em. Thats weird.
Nim
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Not surprising considering this thread is 2 years old..
I'd say those files were deleted ages ago.
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Holy cow it sure is! I thought this was a new thread or something! LOL
Nim
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Oh, those were the times...
I think this post was the true key to get me hooked into AH...so much time ago :)
Lots of things have happened in the meantime. But this thread is immortal :)