Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Mini D on February 10, 2005, 08:11:07 PM
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I'm starting to build a new server to replace my dual pentium2 xeon 400MHz system that I've been running for 8 years now. I managed to get my paws on a couple of 3G Xeon Noconas, so now I'm ready to give it a go again.
Here's what I have so far:
3.0 GHz Xeon (Nacona) x 2
ASUS NCCH-DL motherboard (http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=MB-NCCH-DL&c=pw)
I'm leaning towards 1 GHz of RAM, but don't know if ECC is necessary or not. I'll most likely go with 2 160Gig SATA HDs a DvD burner of some type. I'll also be adding a media reader to this one.
Anyways... any suggestions would be appreciated.
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What are you going to do with the server?
Generally I would go for 2GB RAM with ECC, but depends on what you run on it.
If you run a database application and it has to swap because your are 1GB RAM short, that will be slower than having one harddrive and more RAM.
ECC ram is neccessary... i have seen a lot of servers without and its a pain to get errors in your database for crapped ram because you dont notice the ram is wrong for quite a while.
Or maybe more hard drives, one 40G for system and a raid array for data and application?
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Going with an ASUS board instead of a SuperMicro?
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This may sound like a dumb question to most of you but,
Whats the difference between a Server and a regular desktop PC?
And outside a corperation why would it be desirable to have one?
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Going with an ASUS board instead of a SuperMicro?
I bought a supermicro for my P2 dual Xeon server back in 97. It was a decent board (very expensive), but had some limitations I didn't like (though, I'd be hard pressed to remember what they were). I've been relatively happy with all of the ASUS stuff I've owned and also liked that they were $50 cheaper than the cheapest super-micro board. If I were going with a SCSI solution, I would have gone super-micro without batting an eye. But, I was looking for SATA and more of a "budget" server.
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Got it. SuperMicro is definately not a budget motherboard. I like ASUS and the only servers I have ever built were critical, so I have always used SuperMicro for those.
I'd be curious as to how this one works out for you MD.
DRED, server motherboards support significantly higher amounts of ram (8 ram slots are normal), usually do not have an AGP slot (cheap video solution onboard), almost always have, at least, one 64 bit PCI slot, almost always require ECC ram and are large form factor boards.
If you need something with a lot of ram (>4GB), then a server board is the way to go. However, the CPU's for those boards will have the loudest HSF you have ever heard.
I know our Xeon systems sound like F16's on full afterburner when they are running. Not something you want in earshot.
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Yep Supermicro boards with Intel CPU's are anice combination in my opinion as well.
I am getting ready to build a new server for our office here and we are converting over to a new software package for manufacturing and distribution (We are considering going with MAS90 if anyone has any insight into that package.) so our current server that some "IT" guy bought and configured 4+ years ago was maxed out in RAM when we bought it. The Compaq crap box only came with 512MB of RAM and according to the Compaq book and website for it thats the max it will take.
I have looked at Opteron chips for the server but I think that would be overkill. If someone can give me a few ideas I would appreciate it.
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One thing I'm not very clear on is the benefit of ECC ram. What are the pros/cons involved?
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The Pros; ECC memory can regenerate data from a bad read, preserving the original.
The Cons: ECC memory can regenerate data from a bad read, preserving the original.
It's strength is also its weakness. To generate the ECC, it takes one extra cycle per write to the ram ,making it a lot slower than non-ECC memory.
If an ECC error is detected, the an NMI is generated back to the CPU. Software *could* take advantag of this and correct the error, but virtually all operating systems will simply shutdown on an ECC hit.
Basically, you know when ECC ram is about to go belly up. Without ECC, you can scribble bad data all day long.
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Well, I picked up the memory yesterday and downloaded WinXP64 beta from Microsoft (with 1 year license) at a very reasonable price (note: free).
The next step is figuring out the power supply. I'm a bit confused in regards to the dual Xeon setup. It almost appears that I need a special power supply, though the manual for the motherboard doesn't say so. Skuzzy, have you ever heard of a power supply for Xeons having to be compatable with "EPS12V Server Boards"?
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XP64 will run on a Xeon?
Thought it only ran on AMD64, Intels soon to be EM64T thingy and Itanics, oops Itaniums.
Ooops just checked it will, pity the EM64T implemetation is a poor shadow of the AMD 64 bit extensions.
Wow this is getting silly - just read a review of a 3.6Ghz 1mb cache Nocona vs AMD3500 512k cache. They proudly announce at the end that in math intensive operations the Nacona wins.
Well lets see - 3.6Ghz Nocona $750+ vs AMD 3500 $250, at least match prices and put it up against an FX-53, then lets see who wins what.
Only thing that does surprise me is that the review is not from Toms Intelware site.
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You're a bit behind the times, it seems. Try looking up "Nocona".
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BTW... XP64 will not run on Itaniums. You need MS Server 2003 for that one.
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Ahh cc.
Wasn't sure about the Itanics.
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Kev... put the soapbox away. There's no need for it in this thread. You're participation has not been helpfull and apparently is not intended to be. Take it somewhere else.
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Sorry for the delay MD. Most of the dual Xeon motherboards I have dealt with had two additional molex connectors, or 1 additional molex and 1 4 pin P4 connector for the power.
I know there is going to have to be additional power plugs for the Xeon's as there is no way to get the power needed through the standard ATX power plug.
I have never seen a motherboard requiring some unique power plug, but if this board does, I would like to know about it.
EDIT: Oh wait, I think I misunderstood. You are talking about power supplies that meet the EPS12V spec. Not many of those around for cheap. Antec has a Tru550 model that meets EPS12V. You can get it at Newegg for $122.00 (U.S.).
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I did a bit of research and purchased the Antec power supply at lunch ($118). The connectors are actually different. The main connector is a 24 pin (instead of a 20 pin). The antec is also supposed to be quiet, but I think that might be a matter of perspective.
I also purchased a case with 5" fans on it. I figure I'm going to want to be pumping some air through the box and bigger fans generate less noise.
All that's left now is the HD(s). I'm planning on getting two 160Gig SATA drives. I don't think I'll need anything faster than 7200 RPM. It seems my choices are Maxtor, WD and Seagate. The last I'd heard about Seagate was that they were having problems, but that was 4 years ago. I know very little about the reliability of the various manufacturers these days. Any recomendations there?
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Llama swears by the Seagates. I have had no luck at all with any of the IDE/SATA drives the last two or three years.
I think it is a crapshoot. I would put WD as a last resort though.
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I have never had to buy a power supply for any server I built as I always have used rack-mount cases (Antec) and they always had a good supply in them. Damn plug might have been different and I never took note of it.
Now you got me curious.
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Id go Maxtor for drives. I've had great luck with those in my servers.
IBM, Seagate and Western Digitals have all fried up on me. Both WD's I've tried recently performed poorly. Avoid Samsung or Fujitsu
How many fans can your case support? I'd plan on a few. CheckSix.Net's newer machine is a Dell thingy...as much as I'd like to pick on them, they do have excellent cooling.
Does your MB have onboard SATA Raid? Tom's Hardware had a few interesting reviews on SATA RAID cards, if you are intending to do a Mirror.
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I'm putting it all together. At first, I was impressed with the documentation provided and the compatability/standardization between the motherboard and case. Things have gone downhill from there.
I'm not sure how to hook up these SATA drives. I want them in parralel raid configuration (raid 1), but there isn't really anything about how to configure the RAID in the manual. The drives didn't come with any instructions on how to hook up the power either. I think I've got it with the "SATA" power connections, but they still aren't recognized.
The slightly larger problem is tha the processors operate at about 7 billion degrees. I'm going with a different cooling solution.
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Yes, those CPU's are going to run hot. Very hot. Usually Intel's HSF for the Xeon's have been up to the task, but I have not used a Nocona yet. Was curious to hear if the default HSF would do the job.
If you are configuring the SATA's for RAID, you will need to load the third party driver during the Windows installation for the raid controller.
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Put one drive onto each of the RAID channels.
During POST press the appropriate key to get into your SATA RAID BIOS.
Configure your RAID 1 there.
Some drives need adaptors to hook the power cable up.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Yes, those CPU's are going to run hot. Very hot. Usually Intel's HSF for the Xeon's have been up to the task, but I have not used a Nocona yet. Was curious to hear if the default HSF would do the job.
If you are configuring the SATA's for RAID, you will need to load the third party driver during the Windows installation for the raid controller.
The chips came with the 1U copper heat sincs (no fan). It seems they rely on a high flowthrough to cool the processor. That was obviously insufficient for my needs. I've ordered a couple of copper sincs with fans. I'm still concerned that my case doesn't have sufficient flow through, but the fans will definately let me test things with a bit more confidence.
I've plugged the SATA drives into the Raid1 and Raid2 sockets. I haven't figured out how to get into the raid configuration menu yet since I was a bit more concerned about the heat problem. The only thing that was ambiguous was the drive had a mylar 4 pin connector as well as an apparent power connection next to the SATA connector. The MATROX web site mentions that you shouldn't connect power to A and B at the same time, but fails to mention what A and B are. The whole RAID/SATA thing is lost between the HD manual and the Motherboard manual. It's the only disappointing aspect of the documentation I've encountered so far.
I was actually impressed with the heat sinc mounting kit that came with the ASUS. When I read the manual prior to the MBs arrival, I thought it looked hokey. It turned out to be a pretty neet system and I was impressed with the ease of aligning the template and the results.
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as far as the sata power use either/or but not both.
the non molex power connector will be to the extreme left of the drive when you are facing the connectors, with the 4-pin molex connector being to the extreme right. The actual sata cable is next to the sata power and is smaller than the sata power.
As for the raid menu, watch during boot-up, you'll see an area where it looks for drives on the raid array and it will tell you what combination of keys will get you in. Usually it's CTRL+D
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The system is up (kinda) and running. I still need to figure out how to install my sound drivers, but everything else seems OK.
The only problem I'm having is with the WinXP x64 beta and the OBDC drivers. For some reason, they aren't working and if I try to remove them I get an error saying they're not installed. If I try to view them I get the same error.
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If you agreed to let Microsoft contact you when you got XP64 you "MAY" be invited to download XP64 RC1. This is just about what will finally be released and probably has ODBC.
I believe RC1 even has Windows update working also.
You will need 64 bit sound drivers, they install exactly the same way as regular XP ones.
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RC1 is pretty much available to anyone that registers for it. It is the version I have. RC2 is only available to those on MSDN subscripions. That one is supposed to have some of these issues resolved. Unfortunately, I don't have access to it. I decided to load XP Pro 32bit instead. Rumor has it that MS is going to offer a free upgrade to x64 for exising XP-Pro users that request it.
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Apparently RC2 is now available generally, if you give Microsoft a valid email address.
-----Rumor has it that MS is going to offer a free upgrade to x64 for exising XP-Pro users that request it.-----
Thats what I heard also.