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General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Red Tail 444 on February 11, 2005, 12:07:59 PM

Title: P38G Virtues
Post by: Red Tail 444 on February 11, 2005, 12:07:59 PM
Okay, I havent flown much lately, but just what exacly is the P38G good at, besides killing me?
Title: P38G Virtues
Post by: Furball on February 11, 2005, 12:38:52 PM
Pissing you off because you cannot see out of the front of it.  The person that designed the p38G cockpit must have caught the same short bus to school that the guy that designed the D-11 took.
Title: Re: P38G Virtues
Post by: Oldman731 on February 11, 2005, 01:06:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Red Tail 444
Okay, I havent flown much lately, but just what exacly is the P38G good at, besides killing me?

Good question.  We've had them in the CT for a couple of weeks now, most recently in a PAC setup against A6M5s and Tonys.  Last night I giggled when I saw, on Channel 2, "these 38s are lunch."  Seemed to be true, although it flies a lot better than I thought it would (except for those stalls).

- oldman
Title: Re: Re: P38G Virtues
Post by: Widewing on February 11, 2005, 01:33:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Oldman731
Good question.  We've had them in the CT for a couple of weeks now, most recently in a PAC setup against A6M5s and Tonys.  Last night I giggled when I saw, on Channel 2, "these 38s are lunch."  Seemed to be true, although it flies a lot better than I thought it would (except for those stalls).

- oldman


98% of the people who fly the P-38 have no clue as to how to use it. The remaining 2% who do know how to fly the P-38 will kick butts from one end of the arena to the other. Flown properly, the P-38G is untouchable by Zeros or the Ki-61, that's not an opinion, that's a fact.

My regards,

Widewing
Title: P38G Virtues
Post by: Red Tail 444 on February 11, 2005, 02:23:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Furball
Pissing you off because you cannot see out of the front of it.  The person that designed the p38G cockpit must have caught the same short bus to school that the guy that designed the D-11 took.


100 ----->:rofl 's
Title: Re: Re: Re: P38G Virtues
Post by: Red Tail 444 on February 11, 2005, 02:25:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
98% of the people who fly the P-38 have no clue as to how to use it. The remaining 2% who do know how to fly the P-38 will kick butts from one end of the arena to the other. Flown properly, the P-38G is untouchable by Zeros or the Ki-61, that's not an opinion, that's a fact.

My regards,

Widewing


That doesn't get to the point of this thread, the late model P38's are a different monster, so, I ask again, what in particular does the P38G excel at?
Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: P38G Virtues
Post by: Karnak on February 11, 2005, 02:28:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Red Tail 444
That doesn't get to the point of this thread, the late model P38's are a different monster, so, I ask again, what in particular does the P38G excel at?

It turns a bit better I think, other than that, why should it excel at something different?  It is a less potent P-38 is all.


Oh, ok, I'll give you one thing.  It is better looking.
Title: P38G Virtues
Post by: pellik on February 11, 2005, 02:53:45 PM
It's a really, really good perk farmer.
Title: P38G Virtues
Post by: dedalos on February 11, 2005, 03:21:43 PM
typical answers from the experts :D.  We are told about how we don't know how to fly them and how they can, but we are not told how to fly them.  How do you fly a 38 right then and what is special about the G.

Real question and not a flame.  What is the right way to fly a 38 when you engage some one co-e, lets say a Spit, A6M, P51, or a 109/190 what ever your experience is.  (I asssume the right way is not to always have the advanttage)  I suck, but if I catch one co-e in a spit, KI84, NIK, or LAx, 90% of the time they end up enjoing coffee in the tower.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: P38G Virtues
Post by: Guppy35 on February 11, 2005, 03:25:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Red Tail 444
That doesn't get to the point of this thread, the late model P38's are a different monster, so, I ask again, what in particular does the P38G excel at?


As someone who only flies the G, I can't compare it to the other Lightnings.  Listening to folks I fly with who fly the J and L, the J seems to be the preferred bird.

For me the G excels in that I like early model Lightnings for the look and the history :)

It does turn nice, has the same firepower as the others.

The top of the armor glass is too low compared to how it should really be so visibility is a problem.  The armor glass also gives problems in particular when the sun is going down etc as the glass reflection effects shooting, which in my case is bad to begin with.

It has no WEP.

From what I've read, that glass in reality was so clear that pilots forgot it was there, so it shouldn't be a problem.

If you are flying a Lightning to fly a Lightning, I'd take a J or L.  Obviously they are better birds.

I'm just stubborn and my image of 38 pilots is the one of the guys in 42-44 in North Africa, over Rabaul, in the Aleutians, and the early 38s over Europe.  All early birds.  about 2/3rds of Bong's kills were in F,G, H birds as an example.

So I guess it's strong suit for is it adds to the historical immersion for me

Dan/Slack
Title: P38G Virtues
Post by: killnu on February 11, 2005, 03:41:22 PM
what the 38 can not out turn, it will out run.  what the 38 can not out run, it will out turn.  so, you have to know the other aircraft you are going up against and fight against its weakness.  there is no "pat" answer on how to fly the 38.  it constantly changes since the enme you face change.
Title: P38G Virtues
Post by: dedalos on February 11, 2005, 04:08:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by killnu
what the 38 can not out turn, it will out run.  what the 38 can not out run, it will out turn.  so, you have to know the other aircraft you are going up against and fight against its weakness.  there is no "pat" answer on how to fly the 38.  it constantly changes since the enme you face change.


:D, thats is my point also.  Lots of planes can do what you described.  If anyone knows how to fly them the right way, then please describe how to fly it against a bird you know how to use the 38 against.  Statements about what the population of the MA may or may not know are not very helpfull and as killinu said, there is no one way to fly any plane.  Depends on the situation.
Title: Re: Re: Re: P38G Virtues
Post by: Oldman731 on February 11, 2005, 04:15:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
Flown properly, the P-38G is untouchable by Zeros or the Ki-61, that's not an opinion, that's a fact.

Could be, could be.  Just haven't seen it yet, I guess.

- oldman
Title: Re: Re: Re: P38G Virtues
Post by: storch on February 11, 2005, 04:21:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
98% of the people who fly the P-38 have no clue as to how to use it. The remaining 2% who do know how to fly the P-38 will kick butts from one end of the arena to the other. Flown properly, the P-38G is untouchable by Zeros or the Ki-61, that's not an opinion, that's a fact.

My regards,

Widewing


Come to the CT and show me.  :D
Title: Re: Re: Re: P38G Virtues
Post by: Karnak on February 11, 2005, 04:33:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
Flown properly, the P-38G is untouchable by Zeros or the Ki-61, that's not an opinion, that's a fact.

I can easily see that in regards to the A6M series due to their crappy high speed handling, but a Ki-61-I-Tei above you would still be a very bad thing as far as I can figure it.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: P38G Virtues
Post by: Guppy35 on February 11, 2005, 05:02:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
I can easily see that in regards to the A6M series due to their crappy high speed handling, but a Ki-61-I-Tei above you would still be a very bad thing as far as I can figure it.



I think what he's talking about is 'flown properly" would be to use the alt, make sure you don't get sucked into a turn fight bit as they really did it with the Japanese planes.

They had the speed to run when needed, and thd climb to get away too.  The 38s could control the fight with their speed and climb advantage.

Dan/Slack
Title: P38G Virtues
Post by: killnu on February 11, 2005, 05:12:45 PM
well, lets go with a yak.  a high yak even.  the plan is to get the yak down and co e with ya.  so, as he dives, cause overshoot.  sometimes ill split s, others ill do the slight nose down turn, tightening turn as he gets closer.  continue this until he gets overaggressive and starts to give up that alt/e adv.  almost everyone ive come against gets frustrated and tries to push for the kill.  once they get over aggressive and your e states start to equalize, it is now time to start to turn with him, using flaps to gain your shot.  i havent met a yak i couldnt out turn yet once slow.  now he may opt to dive away and "extend", just stay up and grab wait till he comes back up, rope. or you can chase, but you wont catch, so, unless you have a gun solution real quick, i wouldnt chase, he will be back.  :)   there is some more in there, but you have to go with flow of fight really, so hard to describe the "what ifs".

but that is typically my game plan with a high con.  avoid his BnZ, while maintaining as much speed as possible, wait till he gets over agressive, once youve done that, he will make another mistage typically.
now, the distances you start your turns, split s...etc  depends on his e state.  the only way to tell is stick time i guess.  ive flown 38 for about 2 years in AH and im still learning, and have a lot to learn.  if you want to learn to fly the 38, put in some time, a lot of time.:aok
Title: P38G Virtues
Post by: pellik on February 11, 2005, 05:28:18 PM
It's my impression that all the tips and tricks of fighting in a 38 have been well documented on the forums, but in scattered and hard to find places. There is very little you can't learn if you start running searches for '38'. Also be sure to check out the 479th film library once the film viewer gets unbroken, as most of those are 38 films.

The G in particular you'll have trouble finding useful information on, as it's much too different from the J and L for most of us 38 pilots. It's climb rate makes it terrible as a rope-a-dope or stall fighter. IMHO it doesn't really turn all that well, even if you know it's "tricks" it still doesn't really compete with a spitV.  38 pilots tend to like stallfight, which means keeping the nose up, while the G needs to behave more like the 47d11 and keep that nose pointed down.

-pellik
Title: P38G Virtues
Post by: killnu on February 11, 2005, 05:32:50 PM
i think it turns better than the other models.  
guess it all boils down to taste.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: P38G Virtues
Post by: pellik on February 11, 2005, 05:33:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
I can easily see that in regards to the A6M series due to their crappy high speed handling, but a Ki-61-I-Tei above you would still be a very bad thing as far as I can figure it.


Fighting from a disadvantage is always harder, but I can assure you the KI61 isn't that big of a threat. It's the KI84 that's a dedicated 38 killer in this game, and that's pretty much all it is.

The 38L maintains a good advantage over the 61 in a stallfight, so winning from a disadvantage is really just about knowing when to switch from energy stealing overshoots to saddle up overshoots. You turn him too early and you'll be too slow, you wait too long and he'll get too good a shot.

-pellik
Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: P38G Virtues
Post by: Widewing on February 11, 2005, 05:37:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
Come to the CT and show me.  :D


Better yet, come to the TA. You don't have to worry about 3rd men in and don't you die when I hose your rice burner. ;)

My regards,

Widewing
Title: P38G Virtues
Post by: OIO on February 11, 2005, 09:16:52 PM
The G is lighter and yes, has a less powerful engine.


Its not a climber like the J or the L...but what it lacks in climb power (and top speed/accel) it makes up in turning ability.


The G has to be flown EITHER as an Energy fighter OR as a turnfighter with one hell of a dive-to-get-away ability, you cant think of the G as the hybrid of the 2 the J and the L are.


Matter of fact, you can think of the P38G to be the sexier twin engine version of the Ki-61. You should fly the 38G with the same mindset you fly a Ki-61 : Energy fight (B&Z) as long as you have good alt advantage, try to force the other into a turnfight as long as you have at least 6 or 8k of alt under your bellybutton so you can dive and run if things go sour (aka a 2nd con).

38G=Ki61 with better stability and much better diving ability and better climb.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: P38G Virtues
Post by: storch on February 11, 2005, 09:51:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing
Better yet, come to the TA. You don't have to worry about 3rd men in and don't you die when I hose your rice burner. ;)

My regards,

Widewing


Come to the CT, show me :D
Title: Re: Re: P38G Virtues
Post by: Slash27 on February 11, 2005, 10:12:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Oldman731
 We've had them in the CT for a couple of weeks now, most recently in a PAC setup against A6M5s and Tonys.  Last night I giggled when I saw, on Channel 2, "these 38s are lunch."  Seemed to be true,  



  Sorry I missed that. I would have loved spoiling "lunch":D
Title: P38G Virtues
Post by: BUG_EAF322 on February 12, 2005, 12:18:35 AM
yeah let me make u giggle in my P38G

lets see what we can laugh about.


Although the tony made most kills on the P38

the pilots loved to fight it.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: P38G Virtues
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 12, 2005, 12:51:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
Come to the CT and show me.  :D




next time the P-38G or J are in the CT, I'll be glad to show you how well it can do against the competition.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: P38G Virtues
Post by: storch on February 12, 2005, 06:55:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
next time the P-38G or J are in the CT, I'll be glad to show you how well it can do against the competition.


ack-ack


I'll look forward to it.  are you going to run?  :D
Title: P38G Virtues
Post by: BUG_EAF322 on February 12, 2005, 10:56:26 AM
We don't use the wable run climb and ho technique.

the G can't run it has to fight.

And when it comes to that  it eats wabbles alive.
Title: P38G Virtues
Post by: storch on February 12, 2005, 04:45:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
We don't use the wable run climb and ho technique.

the G can't run it has to fight.

And when it comes to that  it eats wabbles alive.


The G's easily outrun the now under 300mph A6M5
Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: P38G Virtues
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 12, 2005, 05:05:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
I'll look forward to it.  are you going to run?  :D




Why would I run from something when I can easily shoot it down instead?


ack-ack
Title: P38G Virtues
Post by: storch on February 12, 2005, 05:51:57 PM
Alright I'll be looking for ya next time and you can shoot me down.  :D
Title: P38G Virtues
Post by: Furball on February 13, 2005, 05:57:10 AM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
Alright I'll be looking for ya next time and you can shoot me down.  :D


You were much more fun when you whined lots when you got shot down ;) :D
Title: P38G Virtues
Post by: storch on February 13, 2005, 08:16:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Furball
You were much more fun when you whined lots when you got shot down ;) :D


get me with a few beers on and I will. :D
Title: P38G Virtues
Post by: 1Klink on February 13, 2005, 05:43:58 PM
I can stall a G model in a HammerHead at 20MPH to 0 MPH.

It does Snap rolls like no other plane in this game IMO.

To solve the Visibility Problem ,all i did was hit the page down key and brought my Gunsight to Half and Half.

It does However drink a lot of fuel.

Quote:

When compared with the Zero, the Lightning came off badly in terms of speed and maneuverability at medium and low altitudes, but had a far higher top speed, rate of climb and operational ceiling and was much better armed. When the P-38 tried to outturn a Zero at low altitudes, it usually ended up second best. However, when the unique attributes of the Lightning were used to best effect, the results were devastating. The best tactic was for the Lightnings to loiter at high altitudes and then dive down on Zero formations in a blaze of concentrated firepower, using the Lightning's impressive climbing rate to zoom back up out of harm's way. If this did not work, the wise Lightning Lightning pilot would then use his superior speed to make good his escape.
Title: P38G Virtues
Post by: Oldman731 on February 13, 2005, 07:19:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 1Klink
The best tactic was for the Lightnings to loiter at high altitudes and then dive down on Zero formations in a blaze of concentrated firepower, using the Lightning's impressive climbing rate to zoom back up out of harm's way. If this did not work, the wise Lightning Lightning pilot would then use his superior speed to make good his escape.

Well, yeah, but this b&z technique, while historically quite accurate, makes for a pretty boring fight in AH2.

- oldman
Title: P38G Virtues
Post by: 1Klink on February 13, 2005, 09:11:31 PM
Well you can either B & Z,or fly around on the deck like a seal.

It's your 15$ and that decision is up too u!
Title: P38G Virtues
Post by: Red Tail 444 on February 14, 2005, 09:23:13 AM
Good help, thanks, I still suck in it...
Title: P38G Virtues
Post by: 1Klink on February 14, 2005, 11:42:35 AM
If you need some help with the G model Red Tail ,let me know.

You can usually catch me in the TA around 8 P.M. eastern time,
Flying the G model.

Will be glad to give you some pointers.
Title: P38G Virtues
Post by: Flyboy on February 14, 2005, 11:54:23 AM
Ki84 109g10 spit9 la7 and the niki are all batter planes then the 38. a good match will be a F6f or a 109g2, maybe the 205.
Title: P38G Virtues
Post by: killnu on February 14, 2005, 02:01:22 PM
im glad most of those planes pilots ive ran into in the G didnt know that.
Title: P38G Virtues
Post by: 1Klink on February 14, 2005, 03:41:03 PM
Thats a good point killinU,i,ve seen you land many kills in the G.

If anybody wants schooling on the G model let me know.
Title: P38G Virtues
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 14, 2005, 05:27:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by killnu
im glad most of those planes pilots ive ran into in the G didnt know that.



LOL, no kidding.


ack-ack