Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: SpitLead on February 23, 2001, 05:38:00 PM
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If you take out all the fuel bunkers at either a Vehicle or Air Base does that limit the fuel to only 25% or will it kill ALL fuel from that base (i.e. no one can launch because there is zero (0) fuel.
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Ive never seen it bewlo 25% i think thats as low as you can get it. kinda dumb IMO, i think ya should be able to get it to 0.
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I agree. And, it would definitely change the strategy to take a base.
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Exactly, whats the point in even attacking the fuel if the fighters can still take off and defend it? having it only go donw to 25% is makes attacking it utterly pointless.
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No, by limiting the fuel you restrict the fuel loads, limiting plane choice and restricting range and altitude of the enemy fighters. That is a usefull thing to be able to do.
If you want to shut down fighters, take out the fighter hangars. Simple.
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Lephturn - Aces High Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome! (http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/)
"Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know." - Michel Eyquem, seigneur de Montaigne. (1533–1592)
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This has been discussed before many times in the past. I think you should be able to reduce fuel to zero. I understand your point Leph but if you are defending a base (And don't mind being vulched) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) 25% is more than adequate. Hangers are always a stumbling block on Jabo missions I think the fuel should be allowed to hit zero but only for about 2 minutes. It should then go back to 25% and continue with it's normal rebuild time. Also we should be able to suppress object rebuilds. (Rather than the current situation of having to wait until they are totally rebuilt and start over again). This would IMO promote more better organised jabo missions. The same thing with the immediate re generation of the Ack on capture. I know this was brought in in beta to stop people spawning Goons and following the attacking troops into the map room but Kill the Barracks and the problem goes away. At the moment I don't think the Fuel or the Barracks are really strategic at all during an attack. Killing them just makes the field useless to you after you have captured it until they rebuild.
JMO
TTFN
snafu
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Ok Ok ive got it,
when all fuel bunks are destroyed, allow either 5 more fighters to up with no more than 25%, or 2 bombers@ 25%
that would simulate the realistic "running out" of gas insted of just instantly it bing gone, after all, who wouldent be smart enough to have a few barrels stashed away? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
But as-is, attackaing fuel bunks (and ammo but we'll burn that bridge later) is useless bucaues when a base is under attack the fighters are going to have 1 mission, defend it. and %25 fuel is WAAAYY plenty to accomplish that, plus IMO the fuel bunks make better and more interesting targets than the hangers.
AS for ammo, why not when all ammo is gone
A: disable ord (done)
B: restrick fighters ammount of ammo load to:
if 1 bunk is left half usual load.
if none are left 1/4 usual load.
again for the same reasons as fuel. all taking out the ammo does is disable ord, which is useless to do since the fighters that are going to be taking off to get ya will not be wanting to carry any.
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Killing fuel has more to do with Start than stopping field defenders from coming up.
I usually take a Lanc up and hit fuel at 3 fields that are close to our bases. The idea is to put off the JABO attacks happening to your own bases. Ever take a f4u up with 25% fuel? Its a glider by the time you get to the field you intend to JABO.
Ive also started doing Barrack runs for the same reason. Hitting barracks at 3 or 4 enemy fields that are close to our field that is getting hit prevents troops from coming in. They will have to come from a much farther field.
A good Cap and JABO can take hangers out at any field within minutes. I can take out 1 FH all ack and barracks at any small to medium field. Imagine what a large scale JABO attack can do.
Dog out.......
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Good point wardog...but it doesent really do much to disagree or agree with the given point...whats your opinion on the discussuin at hand?
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Guess ya coundlt figure out my point.
Just leave fuel as is. Thats my point (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
This forces guys to work together to close a field. And teamwork is lacking at this point and time. Once you get a few guys together to close a field and cap it, they actually find they enjoy it, So much so that i now have a lot of newbies log on and if they see me its.. : Wardog, what we hitting what the mission,make a plan. Lets keep it fun for all. Ya start kill all fuel at any given base this makes for milk running. Prefer to work to take a base. New guy learn more about it and then it becomes fun.
Dog out...
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Killing all those fuel tanks is alot harder than strafing a few acks and then vulching fighters if thats what you call "fun" yer right, losts of newbies.
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Sounds to me like someone wants to be able to jabo a field to submission by hitting 4 fuel tanks at 250lb's a piece rather than hitting X hangers at 3K apiece. Sounds too easy to me, it would make capturing a field almost a joke... anyone with a C-Hog could take the whole thing with some luck.
25% fuel is a huge disadvantage, especially if you want to isolate a field you are trying to attack. Like Wardog said, hitting fuel at nearby fields is a great tactic to stop high alt fighters from racing in and spoiling an attack.
-Soda
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anyone with a C-Hog could take the whole thing with some luck.
I would love to see someone try to kill all the fuel bunks with all the acks up...yea right...that would take some luck..the kind that doesent exist.
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I think the point is that with the fuel set up in the current fashion, it provides more interesting options for tactics. If you are trying to capture the field, then clearly the hangers are the primary target. If you allow the fuel to go to zero, then the fuel tanks become the primary target to supress the defenders. Why bother going after the hangers, which are much harder targets? Meanwhile, the fuel is a much more valuable target at the fields close to your target to prevent reinforcements from reaching the target. The 25% fuel, while fine for point defense is not enough to go anywhere meaningful.
As a defensive mission, the fuel strike Wardog mentioned is very effective against fighters and jabos. As an offensive mission, you could do it with two separate missions. Mission #1 launches early with the goal of dropping all fuel at the reinforcement field. Mission #2 launches to hit the fighter hangers and ack at the target. The timing should be such that both missions reach their targets at the same time. Just an idea. Most of the time it's just as effective (and easier) to send one massive attack against the target and capture it before the reinforcements can show up.
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Lepton, only 21 posts and you've figured it out.... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) TheWobble is working on 1900, but whatever...
If you want to supress and capture a field, kill the hangers, if you want to harrass a field, or support another attack, hit the fuel. Just allowing 4 fuel tanks to be killed to totally disable a field would be too easy, 1 person with a Ju88 could get the fuel and ack and set up the capture for himself to return in a C-47.
-Soda
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re: the ability to destroy all fuel at a base. If fuel goes to 0 then a captured base would be worthless until the fuel tanks regenerated even if the hangers are up.
Bad idea.
It would only take two fighters to de-ack a feild and render it unusable using a half dozen strafing passes per airplane. It would just as easy for a single fighter to strafe a base into submission even though it would take a little longer. This would severely impact gameplay in the main arena. You wouldn't need bombers anymore to hit anything but HQ's and carriers. Why have hangers at all if killing a couple of fuel tanks has the same effect as destroying those huge buildings?
MiG
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Well, I can see this thread has digressed into a gameplay issue. Wobble, Soda, Lepton, Wardog, MiG Eater you are ALL making good points. However, I feel the gameplay needs more balance regarding fuel tanks.
Wobble is correct, by reducing the fuel to 25% you do NOT deter point defense of that field. One can still take off and get to 10k to shoot down incoming bombers or kill cons. Period. That is a FACT. With that fact established, there's not a whole lot of point then to take fuel bunkers out as most fighters get vulched or some such thing. Also, Soda et. al. you also make a good point in that if one only takes the fuel down there's NO POINT in going after the FHs. That would make it TOO easy to capture a field. Now, let's look at the reality of the game. ALL countries have a hard enough time as it IS to even organize a single coordinated strike against one field let alone fly to all the surrounding fields and knock down their fuel to 25%!!! (gee that sounds like fun don't it). So, in AH reality that strategy (IMHO) is worthless in its execution (don't get me wrong - strategically it's very sound but in reality it just won't happen).
So... how does one balance it out fairly and make the fuel a worthy target (which by the way Strategic Daylight Bombing in WWII definitely went after refineries because of its importance and we do have refineries in the game). I like Wobble's suggestion to limit only 5 (or some other number of vehicles) fighters to take off after fuel has hit zero (0). Zero fuel would then prohibit anything from taking off for a SHORT period of time (i.e. 2,3, or 5 minutes or whatever) at which point it would bump back up to 25%. This would add some real importance to the fuel. Heck make them harder to take down but it adds another strategic element to the game. Right now, it's only a nusciance to be at 25% fuel while defending a field. I will only blow them up for the fun of it and to get perk points on my missions. Tactically, I see them of little importance.
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SpitLead,
I've been with many missions where we get "organized" enough to take a field with little or no trouble. I've been on missions to take out fuel at fields nearby, both in offense and defense. Same with dar. Often it goes un-noticed but it's big thing to strategic play.
Hitting fuel is a great tactic, 25% is a huge disadvantage at any base, though I agree not as much at the actual "Attacked" base. Then again, the attacked base should have the hangers levelled, not just 4 fuel strafed. Ever faced the dilema of flying from a nearby base with only 25% fuel to try and help defend, it's almost suicide since you know you can't gain any alt or use WEP or you'll be out of fuel by the time you get there.
I'm still convinced that this would just be a way to take advantage of a slightly suppressed base; take out the ack, hit the fuel, wait till 4 or 5 newbies spawn and die so you know you have a window to get the goon in, and then you capture the base without ever disabling a hanger. Sounds like a way to wreck gameplay, not improve it.
I'm all for people suggesting things to improve gameplay but this just appears to have too many problems that would make it worse. I'm just pointing out the way I can see people abusing this system.
btw, comparing bombing refineries to bases isn't quite the same though I agree more targets like this that effected game play would probably be a blast. Imagine train/truck hunting to slow supplies to the front... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-Soda
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I'm already picturing myself in a P-47D with rockets booming a train :-)
Hope they simulate the steam flying out of the train engine for effect.
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Damn, I hope you're right... and bridges, trucks, depots... problem is, you'll see 100's of C-Hogs hitting everything with 20mm then, not the P-47's that historically did that sort of thing a lot.
-Soda
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I remember playing Dynamix's (Sierra's) A-10 Tank Killer sim years ago. You use to be able to attack truck convoy's and blow bridges with laser guided bombs. Very fun. MiG Alley also has sort of the same thing. They actually have trains you can attack too. Just take out the lead engine and she's dead on the tracks. Then you take your time and pick off the rest of the cars. I don't recall any train cars though set up with ack guns which might make it tricky. I think the germans did that.
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The current rebuild times in hangars are so ridiculously low that you can bomb the FH of 3 nearby fields (near the field you plan to attack), and by the time you are hitting the 3rd field, the 1st is already up!
Hangars should take TWICE the ack rebuild time. Id love to see someone patch together a hangar faster than he can mount a gun on a tripod.
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Tac,
Hard to put a really high re-gen time hangers since it is pretty damn easy to take every hanger at a field out with a single Lanc flying at 30K. It's a game balance thing I think since you do have 15 minutes while the hangers are down that should be enough time to take a field if you do it right.
Hitting hangers has nothing to do with real life, so while it might actually take weeks/months to replace a real hanger in real life planes just didn't sit in hangers waiting to get hit.
Damn, I remember the days of the endless spawning. hangers? what hangers?
-Soda