Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Guppy35 on February 13, 2005, 02:41:26 AM
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Not much out there on the late in the game Headhunter L models.
The first image is N just to show the placement of the green and white bands on the tail, wings and props.
The next two are Miss Cheri, a P38L from the Headhunters.
Last is the nose art based on a Varga Girl. I did this for a 51 profile I did of a 506th FG Mustang. Thought it might help with Miss Cheri since its the same Varga Girl
Thanks Kev
Dan/Slack
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/810_1108283795_hhp38l.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/810_1108283833_misscheri.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/810_1108283871_misscheri2.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/810_1108283762_80576.jpg)
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Those tail stripe proportions are the reverse of what I put on Jandina IV (my lower stripe is larger) and the wing tips aren't painted green. Now I'm wondering if the metal model I used as an example was all the accurate.
Have you got any images of Jandina IV to confirm the details of the paint scheme I did were correct? Getting ready to do the final weathering and submit her next week...
Thanks!
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Oboe what RGB values you use for the green, that way we can match the J and L.
Take it the X is standard black/white?
Color of the circle behind the nose art?
Color of Miss Cheri words?
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Good idea, Kev. I used "Willow Green" from the US colors section of Skinner's Heaven color charts. Its hex value is 528431.
The standard green value just looked too dark to me.
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Lol great minds, I started by using willow green until I heard from you.
Maybe we could do common band widths also?
You still want eye candy, its a 2mb file?
Anyway got to here-
(http://www.cyberonic.net/~kreed/hhunter.jpg)
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Originally posted by oboe
Those tail stripe proportions are the reverse of what I put on Jandina IV (my lower stripe is larger) and the wing tips aren't painted green. Now I'm wondering if the metal model I used as an example was all the accurate.
Have you got any images of Jandina IV to confirm the details of the paint scheme I did were correct? Getting ready to do the final weathering and submit her next week...
Thanks!
Oboe, Jay Robbins was the Squadron CO and he kinda got to do what he wanted with his paint scheme. It also was done during an earlier time then the L when they had changed the design a bit with the wing band etc.
By that time the entire 49th had finally converted to P38s so there was some group wide convention to the paint scheme. With the 35 using yellow and the 36th using white
Kev, I think the top rudder band on yours is not quite large enough compared to the photo of N.
I sure appreciate that you guys have taken on those two birds though. Headhunters for all :)
Dan/Slack
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Increased top rudder band size, and fixed a slight misalignment between top/bottom wing bands.
Updated original pic.
Sure wish I could work out what the noseart is wearing, mine isn't wearing anything lol.
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Common band widths? I'm not sure we have any in common between Jandina IV and Miss Cheri - Jandina has no midwing band, and the tail stripes arent the same either - Jandina doesn't have the extra green band outside of the white band on the tail stripe. I'm trying to find out if mine are correct, as I worked from only one source.
Hey, I mentioned this to theBest1 also - but the border between the spinner base and the engine nacelle looks funny to me on a lot of these 38s. It probably has to do with specularity difference between the spinner and the nacelles - do you think it would help the introduce a shaded thin dark line on the base of the spinner? It would sorta represent a tiny gap between the spinner and the nacelle?
Yeah I've been looking for a free Eye Candy download, but the demo versions of 3.0 and 4000 don't allow you to save anything - just preview. Its a couple hundred bucks to buy, so out of the question for me. Can you get it any smaller if you zip it? What about posting it to AH-skins? Lucull might be able to help us. Is it just a free demo of any earlier version that allows the saving of your changes, over and above previewing them?
Also - should we standardize on the antiglare panel color of the nose and inside boom surfaces? I've been using a light black color, something like 2C2C2C or close to it - but yours is lighter and appears to have a drab greenish cast to it. No idea if one is more correct - I think mine just came directly from the antiglare panels of the default 38L skin. OTOH, it might be nice to have differences visible from the cockpit, just so the pilot FEELS like he's in a different skin, you know? That's one of the big drawbacks to my P-47D11 natural metal skins - they both look the same out the cockpit window, so you don't have the sense of being in a unique skin.
PS. No objections to Miss Cheri's lack of attire here, :eek: , but it looks to be a sheer negligee - I think if you made a dark, frilly border for the hem and straps, and then made a dark but mostly transparent layer for the material, it would look close. (Not that I know much about these things :) )
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Increased top rudder band size, and fixed a slight misalignment between top/bottom wing bands.
Updated original pic.
Sure wish I could work out what the noseart is wearing, mine isn't wearing anything lol.
Here's what the aircraft painters worked from Kev. One of the Vargas Girls
Dan/Slack
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/810_1108320842_vgirl.jpg)
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Could try the spinner idea, but your right difference is due to specularity diffs. Maybe a single black line, think anything bigger will look weird.
Can't zip Eycandy any lower than 2mb
I've temp put it on my hosted website, get it here -
http://www.cyberonic.net/~kreed/eyecandy.EXE
Install to your plugin directory.
Once installed goto Add/remove programs and remove the eycandy 4000 demo part of it.
This leaves just the fully working version.
Edit - Updated pic with spinner idea, used a 1 pixel black line and gaussian blur of 2.
Also added clothed noseart :(
Redid the "Miss Cherie" words, more readable now.
New engine grime layer.
(http://www.cyberonic.net/~kreed/dan2.jpg)
Would have like to been more sure on wing band placement, have a sneaky feeling they should be further inboard. Apart from that this is it.
Oboe -
Don't know if this helps with your stripes -
http://m2reviews.cnsi.net/scotts/decals/aero/am48350.htm
When you get yours finished should do a montage of both together :)
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Boy that really looks great! The nose art and the spinner/nacelle border both. Definitely yes on the montage, and include Guppy's 38H as well!
Well, the link is different than my source so maybe Guppy can clear up the discrepancy? Got any pics of Jandina IV, Dan?
Or can you make an educated guess about the presence of colored wingtips, and the number of stripes on the boom?
My inclination would be to give the the decal sheet higher credibilty than the metal model, but the author of the decal sheet didn't even get Jandina IV's pilots name completely correct, so I don't know. But the decal sheet does match the photos you gave Kev of Miss Cheri, tail stripes-wise.
Kev, if you want, go ahead and cut and paste your tail stripes and boom stripe layers into a couple of gifs or bmps and post them here or email them to me at he email addy in my profile and I'll make the changes on my bird, while saving an old copy of it. We might as well get the shared elements exactly the same? Or let me know the angle of your boom stripes - I think mine are currently 35 degrees or so.
You know I think this is kind of cool.
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Had the same thing, found a decal sheet of 'Miss Cheri", no wing stripes but had a single boom stripe?
In fact it suggests it was common for the 80th to have the noseart on both sides also?
Emailed stripes and full bmp file for montage.
http://www.meteorprod.com/
search for p38
Let me know when you get eyecandy off my site so I can remove it.
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Oh yep, thanks! I got Eye Candy following you instructions, works like I charm!
Still need to read the tutorial on AH Skins yet, but got the program - thanks much!
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emailed final full bitmap and stripes only psd file.
Be nice to do the same sort of thing on various birds so we get like a complete collection with shared elements that tie them together.
If I was you I'd stick with the wing tip green/white and the dual green/white boom stripes.
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Oops may have emailed it to wrong person.
Zip file with full bmp (for montage) and stripes only psd here -
http://www.cyberonic.net/~kreed/misscheri.zip
Can't wait to see a pic of all 3 together :)
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Had the same thing, found a decal sheet of 'Miss Cheri", no wing stripes but had a single boom stripe?
In fact it suggests it was common for the 80th to have the noseart on both sides also?
Emailed stripes and full bmp file for montage.
http://www.meteorprod.com/
search for p38
Let me know when you get eyecandy off my site so I can remove it.
All photos of 80th FS P38Ls from that time frame have the wing ID stripes. It was squadron wide.
The decal guys are wrong. I'll go with all the images of the Ls with the bands They carried them from January 45 on.
Oboe. I think that decal link for Jandina IV is more accurate. Any photos of headhunter aircraft from the J era are similar to that. There don't seem to be any full shots of Jandina IV that I can find, but Cy Homer's bird, Ken Ladds bird and Corky Smith's bird had similar markiings and DID NOT have the green wing tips. As those were the big guns I'd believe that Jay Robbins 38J was also the same.
Dan/Slack
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Yuo woudln't happen to have one showing the wing stripes location more accurately?
I take it you mean I should remove the boom stripes from the 'L'?
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Yuo woudln't happen to have one showing the wing stripes location more accurately?
I take it you mean I should remove the boom stripes from the 'L'?
I don't know about the boom stripe. That would mean it's at least a Flight Leaders A/C. I can't link a name to the plane though.
Here are two shots showing the wing stripe. The more I lookat it, the darker it looks. I can't nail down what color though, either dark green or black with a white outer stripe.
The more I look at it, the more I think it's a black stripe with white outline same color as the squadron letters.
Seems like the white stripe is wider too.
Dan/Slack
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/810_1108359832_80thfs.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/810_1108359857_80thl.jpg)
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Yup does look darker.
Lol this could go on for ages, as we can't nail down a pilot boom stripes aren't necessarily incorrect.
As for the wing stripes I'm open to suggestions, at least it looks like I got the location just about spot on though ;)
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Just by comparing to the squadron letter, I'm 99% sure the wing stripe is black with white outline.
It's definately not the green of the rudder tips or props.
Dan/Slack
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I think so too -
If you hold on a min will change it and post a pic.
I've also doubled the width of the upper white line on the tails.
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OK changes -
1) Doubled upper tail white stripe
2) Changed wing mian stripe to black
3) Doubled wing main stripe edging white
(http://www.cyberonic.net/~kreed/dan3.jpg)
Just gotta figure out the boom stripes (your choice, your the expert) and its ready to go.
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Leave the boom stripe. It looks great :) Thanks for doing that one Kev.
Gonna have to tweak my G "Dottie from Brooklyn" again. I did use the green color you and Oboe went with on it.
Dan/Slack
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Dan -
Check further up and grab 'eyecandy' from my hosted site, it's great for doing general overall weathering, I'll leave it on till the morning.
Was a pleasure, thanks for all your profiles.
Oboe has a copy of my full bmp file and the 80th only layer, he's gonna grab the boom stripes off it and match the tail stripes. That way we have two different models from 2 periods but with some common elements that should tie them together.
If you need it also, it's further up ^^^^^.
Oboe - gonna post it to ah-skins, grab the bmp file from there for the montage :)
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Here are some photos from an 80th FS website:
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/81_1108386893_jandin-iv-jt-robbins-closeu.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/81_1108386726_jandina-iv-closeup-photo-2.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/81_1108386485_jandina-iv-closeup-photo-1.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/81_1108386414_80thfs-p-38-spinner-detail.jpg)
Coupla things - would you guys agree I should change Jandina's antiglare panels to dk Olive Drab, from the current black?
Per the decal sheet, remove 1 boom ID band, making 2 not 3, and remove the green wingtips.
I should not add the black midwing stripes, as Jandina IV is a 'J' and I'm depicting here in 1944, not '45.
Anything else?
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Any chance at all both schemes could be correct? Or is it not uncommon for metal model makers to take some license with the schemes?
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/81_1108389892_80thfs-armour-p-38j-jandina.jpg)
I've about exhausted all the web searches I can looking for images of her.
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Anti-glare look black to me in the pics.
I would go with the 2 tail bands.
No wing bands.
Not sure bout the wingtips though.
Of course Dan is the expert on these things :)
Did you get my message about the tail stripes?
The add a 2 pixel white band on top of the existing upper white band only. This should make it 4 pixels wide in total.
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I can't find anything in any of the books or online showing a full shot of Jandina IV.
Based on photos of other Js with the 80th flown by the big guns like Ken Ladd, Cy Homer, Corky Smith etc that do have photos of the entire aircraft, I'd go with an Olive drab antiglare panal on the nose and wings.
The one photo from the 80th site seems to show it fairly clearly.
I'd skip the wing tip green and white. No evidence to support that anywhere. The mid wing ID strip didn't arrive until January of 45 and that was when they had L models so that wouldn't be there.
And I think I'd go with the two tail boom stripes like the decal sheet shows.
Just my suggestion though :)
Dan/Slack
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Sorry - lost the internet yesterday. I'll incorporate all the suggestions above. Thanks for you help!