Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Guppy35 on February 15, 2005, 02:53:08 AM
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Is it just me or are more people flying Russian birds then ever before. LA7s LA5s and Yaks seem to be out in force.
In another valiant but futile attempt to get better at this game I was out tooling around in my P38G when here comes a Yak.
OK 1 v 1, lets see how bad I get clobbered. We pass at the merge and no face shot. Yeah! maybe an real live turn fight. He goes vertical and so do I. I work in a bit of flaps and I'll be darned I've got a chance. A quick snap shot as he passes and I get pieces off. Round we go and I'm still gaining! Oh joy I might win one!
I get inside his turn and I hammer him to the point he's smoking and minus an aileron. Gawd if only I could shoot!
Round we go and #(%&#* here comes an LA7.
I'm way too slow now but I pull in the nose to honor the new threat and the SOB blasts me right in the face and down I go.
Oh well, if nothing else I gained a little confidence against the Yak.
And I still hate LA7s! :)
Dan/Slack
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I find LA7s make up very good targets. Yaks and La5s are a different story cause usually the guys that take those two up know what they are doing.
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Originally posted by Naudet
I find LA7s make up very good targets. Yaks and La5s are a different story cause usually the guys that take those two up know what they are doing.
exactly..... :)
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yea, from the way is sounds, they engage enme so la7s can come in and pick them...
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Isn't that the way it always goes?
The disgusting part is the elGAY-7 Ho probably wet his pants from the excitement he got thinking he was l337 with killaH sn1p3r sKiLlZ!
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Is it just me or are more people flying Russian birds then ever before. LA7s LA5s and Yaks seem to be out in force.
In another valiant but futile attempt to get better at this game I was out tooling around in my P38G when here comes a Yak.
OK 1 v 1, lets see how bad I get clobbered. We pass at the merge and no face shot. Yeah! maybe an real live turn fight. He goes vertical and so do I. I work in a bit of flaps and I'll be darned I've got a chance. A quick snap shot as he passes and I get pieces off. Round we go and I'm still gaining! Oh joy I might win one!
I get inside his turn and I hammer him to the point he's smoking and minus an aileron. Gawd if only I could shoot!
Round we go and #(%&#* here comes an LA7.
I'm way too slow now but I pull in the nose to honor the new threat and the SOB blasts me right in the face and down I go.
Oh well, if nothing else I gained a little confidence against the Yak.
And I still hate LA7s! :)
Dan/Slack
Welcome to the Aces High Main Arena. Sad, ain't it?
I see you've met the typical Tempest, KI84, and LA7 etc., pilot.:rofl AKA the leaders of the REAL horde. Those who can only fly planes with serious a serious speed advantage or cannons, or both, fly in packs, and cherry pick as a main tactic, with the HO shot as their "big move".
Their favorite tactic is just what you described above. Catch an enemy either engaged or just out of a fight, low on speed and or altitude, and maneuver to set up an HO he cannot avoid. If by some miracle he avoids, or by poor gunnery the HO master misses, he is still in a faster plane with speed already on his side, so he does the only other thing he can, he runs. Hoping one of his fast cannon equipped bird flying buddies will be able to chase you down and kill you while you attempt to catch the little no talent coward. Too bad you can't hear them scream on their local or squad channel.
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Originally posted by killnu
yea, from the way is sounds, they engage enme so la7s can come in and pick them...
YA THINK??????????????:eek:
:rofl :rofl :rofl
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No, it is more like the El gays wait around for someone to get engaged..
So if you are flying around and engage someone, it isn't like you ask for help, the El gay that comes to "help" you or your opponent is just looking for an easy kill.
If you fly a relatively manueverable plane (spit, ki84), you can tell how uncoordinated they are.
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was pathetic lastnight. I had 2 la7's run from my 50% heavy Jug (75%fuel, 2 1000lb bombs and 10 rockets). They finally turned with me when there was 3 of them. To bad I got 1 of them before they got me,lol.
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im flying for rooks ... and i noticed much more LostWafle stuff around.
Yaks are still rare IMO.
(watch fariz , he is around :D )
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I was kind of curious, so I checked out the top 10 fighter ranked guys for last month.
The El gay is sorely underrepresented there... only 1 of the top 10 had the vast majority of her kills in it.
The Runstang seemed to be the top choice, followed closely by the Spit V.
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I'm not too fond of la7's. The pilot can do just about everything wrong in a fight and still come out on top, makes it frustrating sometimes when fighting them in a lesser plane.
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It's not the LA7s fault that cherry pickers like it. The same problems are had with the 190s, p51s, p38s, 109s and any other pilot that has to take a plane over 8k to survive.
Usually I will fly a spitV looking for some fun fights, most of the time I run into the Bore N Zoom types, they dive in I lead turn reverse then they run or climb back up to their perch. This gets very boring. So then I drag out the LA7 and the little run and zoom game is over and people start dieing and climbing even higher lolh.
Also LA7 is the best base defense choice as well. It's kinda hard to catch the Vulch and auger types that dive in from 15K when flying a spit V.
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I've only got a couple of problems with it.
First, it rather renders the whole perk system moot, since it is actually a better performer than all but one of the perk planes. Well, maybe 3, if you count the rocket/jet.
Second, the margin of performance cushion it has over the rest of the free planes makes flying them somewhat an exercise in frustration. I'd be quite happy if the La-7 were perked and the new "bar" was placed at the P-51.. which has at least one weakness.
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What if - The Russian planes weren't modeled according to Kremlin Propaganda/Data??? The La's had poor imitations of German engines in them in reality... plus with the stubby wings I am sure it was fast straight and level, but if it turned I imagine it was much like the famed "GeeBee".
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I say perk all the late war rides, maybe 5 perks a piece. It might cut down on the HO morons too.
Only problem tho is it will make an already timid crowd (most late war rides ) even more timid.
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Originally posted by 6GunUSMC
What if - The Russian planes weren't modeled according to Kremlin Propaganda/Data??? The La's had poor imitations of German engines in them in reality... plus with the stubby wings I am sure it was fast straight and level, but if it turned I imagine it was much like the famed "GeeBee".
You couldnt be more wrong, the la-7 was legitimately one of the stellar birds of the war. As mentioned elsewhere (different thread) late in the war a group of ponies bounced an la-7 in romania (thinking it was a 190). Russian pilot let them make four passes hoping they'd get an ID...then shot two of them down.
The russians (and italians) had some of the best fighter designs of the war....
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Originally posted by 6GunUSMC
What if - The Russian planes weren't modeled according to Kremlin Propaganda/Data??? The La's had poor imitations of German engines in them in reality...
BS
They are modelled on accurate data..........very well modelled infact..........and the Ash82 was based upon an American engine.
La7 is a fun plane, I like it I have fun in it ....................as I do in a La5 and (less often recently) a Yak..............
some players may have migrated to the best nonperked runner/cherry picker/"whatever some other players dont like" ride and they always will where ever the line is drawn.
and there will always be some arguement to draw the line somewhere else
It is annoying to be in a 1 v 1 and struggle for the advantage to have it removed by a cherry picker..............that cherry picker could have flown any plane...........how would another type than the La7 make it less annoying.
West Coast US players must love the La7 because in the time zones I play in I see plenty of La7's but never in the quantities I see Spitfires or FW's.
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Against the Russkies....109 is very good.
109F or G2, for the La's and Yak's will willingly try to turn with a 109, and the 109 turns similarly and climbs very well.
(Tey usually think it's a G-10, - but they would not know that one either)
The 109 also shoots much better than a Yak, and the 109G is better at range than the La.
So, see a hoarde of red-stars, up ye go in various Messers, my best advice.
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Yea, the G-10 is just about an El-gay lite... it does everything almost as well as the El gay does.
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yak9u's are tough little buggers. LA's are cannon fodder if you're in the right plane (a p38 or 109F/G2 ;) the G10 is a good match for an LA7, but only one at a time)
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Originally posted by Tilt
BS
They are modelled on accurate data..........very well modelled infact..........and the Ash82 was based upon an American engine.
lol Ash82 is based on a straight and quick copy of the 190 radial engine (BMW 801) NOT American
the only powerfull engine the US had is the prat 'n whitney R-2800 (very big compare to ash's)
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
I see you've met the typical Tempest, KI84, and LA7 etc., pilot.:rofl AKA the leaders of the REAL horde. Those who can only fly planes with serious a serious speed advantage or cannons, or both, fly in packs, and cherry pick as a main tactic, with the HO shot as their "big move".
Oh yeah, you sure know what you're talking about. Tempests are alllll over the place.:rolleyes:
That Ki-84 is just soooo fast and has such great firepower.:rolleyes:
This from a guy who chooses one of the most overmodeled fighters to fly and then has the gall to whine endlessly about it not being overmodeled even more.
1K3,
That isn't what I've read. Post some backup to that please.
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^^ What he said... La engines were copies of GERMAN designs... With typical soviet 'quality'
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I don't know anything about the engines. Can someone point me in the direction of some data one way or the other? Even a really badly done geocities page might be nice :)
As for the Soviet Hordes... I'm guilty as charged. I think that I've only flown 3 sorties so far this tour that weren't in Yak-9Ts, or Il-2s. One was a 109G10 (Don't care to fight at the 10k base in a Yak lol), one was in a Ki-84 (after reading the thread here on it) and the last was in a B-24 (Trying to play nice with others on a base capture).
I wish I could say that "I don't care what everyone thinks" but for some really odd reason, I do. While in AW I was always a fan of the La-5, and wished that the Yak-9D wasn't so much of a joke, I could never quite get myself to fly the La-7 with any sort of regularity (in 3 years I have 2 kills, and 3 deaths lol... maybe the only person in game who doesn't have a positive K/D in the thing heh). Mostly because of the stigma that goes with it.
Either way though, I find the Yak-9U to be more than enough plane to compete in the MA. What I like most about it, is the ability to move the fight away from an enemy field. I can usually entice a plane or two to follow me out of the furball for some individualized loving. I'm certainly no killer, but I give as well as I get most of the time. Of course, I often chase Cherry pickers in a furball, which is pretty much cherry picking in and of itself, so I'm not really all that classy lol.
I've been flying the Yak-9T more lately just because it's funny to watch planes break in half from a single ping at 400 yards.
-Sik
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perk the lagay...sounds good. I see way to many of them being flown when the numbers are with the attackers. I have no problems with guys upping one to defend a base or whatever but using them to attack is pretty lame.
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1K3 you're wrong.
If the LA7 is gay what is the status of the P51, D9,G10 and so on ?
There is no reason to perk the LA7.
It's already almost perked as it's often the 1st plane killed in a furball.
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Guppy, I know what you mean exactly. I'll be engaged with one fighter, think I'm alone so I get low and slow, and out of nowhere here comes a stupid LA7 from my 12 o'clock, and I can't manuever. So what do I do? Lately... I know its sad, but I'll just HO um. He is obviously going to shoot, he chose the angle, and I don't have enough power to make a move that ruins his shooting solution. More times than not, it is a new guy, he'll start spraying from WAY far out, and you can most likely win the HO, and pick up your previous target.
I'm not a fan of the HO, but sometimes... when in Rome....
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"lol Ash82 is based on a straight and quick copy of the 190 radial engine (BMW 801) NOT American"
But, lol, like duh... The 801 itself was a plagerized version of the Wright R-2600.
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As far as I know, the el Gay was a development of the La-5, which was a development of the LaGG-3 (basically dropping a radial engine in it).
I'm sure there was more to it than that, but I don't think the La-X series was a copy of anything.. German or American.
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Originally posted by Howitzer
Guppy, I know what you mean exactly. I'll be engaged with one fighter, think I'm alone so I get low and slow, and out of nowhere here comes a stupid LA7 from my 12 o'clock, and I can't manuever. So what do I do? Lately... I know its sad, but I'll just HO um. He is obviously going to shoot, he chose the angle, and I don't have enough power to make a move that ruins his shooting solution. More times than not, it is a new guy, he'll start spraying from WAY far out, and you can most likely win the HO, and pick up your previous target.
I'm not a fan of the HO, but sometimes... when in Rome....
Well, that situation isn't unique to the El gay... it is just that they are faster than everything else.. so they get to you first.
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Originally posted by straffo
1K3 you're wrong.
If the LA7 is gay what is the status of the P51, D9,G10 and so on ?
There is no reason to perk the LA7.
It's already almost perked as it's often the 1st plane killed in a furball.
Wouldn't bother me to see a light perk on all the above mentioned planes.
Zaphod
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Originally posted by straffo
1K3 you're wrong.
If the LA7 is gay what is the status of the P51, D9,G10 and so on ?
There is no reason to perk the LA7.
It's already almost perked as it's often the 1st plane killed in a furball.
Almost makes you wonder how it consistantly carries a K/D of 1.25...
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Originally posted by Urchin
Almost makes you wonder how it consistantly carries a K/D of 1.25...
Because it can run after timid pilots and kill them when they are 'extending" either under a friendly plane umbrella or their field ack :)
It doesn't make this plane anything other than a "whinne generator" :)
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Originally posted by Zaphod
Wouldn't bother me to see a light perk on all the above mentioned planes.
Zaphod
That would be good IMO, a lot of propositions like this were made in this BBS.
None look to please HTC dunno why :)
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Russian planes are fun to fight against. The La-7 maybe a plane for nubs but even so the fight is, 90% of the time, better then those Ami Hero Planes that just run and run and run...
Or suicide themselves against inanimate tool sheds...
If there are more Yaks and La-5FNs in the mix then that could mean more folks are taking to actual fighting humans rather then tool sheds.
More Spits, Yaks, Las etc are all good signs for those who like the fur. FM2s being the only real exception to the typical AMI long distance marathon runner.
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Originally posted by straffo
Because it can run after timid pilots and kill them when they are 'extending" either under a friendly plane umbrella or their field ack :)
It doesn't make this plane anything other than a "whinne generator" :)
In case you weren't aware, a K/D of 1.25 means an La-7 generally kills 1.25 planes for every 1 death.
I don't know about you, but I find being able to maintain a positive K/D when flown in a suicidal manner such as you described above is pretty impressive.
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My understanding is that the ASh-82 (previosly M-82) was a short cylinder version of the M-81 and that the M-81 was a (or a derivitive of a) 14 cylinder Wright R-2600.
The confusion with it being derived from a german engine may be that the ASh-82 is now being used to power the new Flugwerk Fw-190's.
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Originally posted by Urchin
In case you weren't aware, a K/D of 1.25 means an La-7 generally kills 1.25 planes for every 1 death.
I don't know about you, but I find being able to maintain a positive K/D when flown in a suicidal manner such as you described above is pretty impressive.
It's certainly impressive but don't bother me.
Like Wotan said "Russian planes are fun to fight against" and it's all I want :)
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Originally posted by Westy
"lol Ash82 is based on a straight and quick copy of the 190 radial engine (BMW 801) NOT American"
But, lol, like duh... The 801 itself was a plagerized version of the Wright R-2600.
I thought it was a licensed P&W Twin Wasp.
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Originally posted by Zaphod
Wouldn't bother me to see a light perk on all the above mentioned planes.
Zaphod
Agreed. all those uber rides need a small perk.
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In the context of AH, there really aren't any "uber planes" other than the Spit and el Gay.
And even those are merely better than any other plane at what they do.
HT probably won't ever perk any more planes, it isn't likely that any new plane will hit the C-Hogs 22% usage level that warranted a perk. Sure, we've got 5-6 types making up 50% of the arena, but that is "variety".. and removing that would remove a large chunk of HTC's revenue.
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Originally posted by 1K3
lol Ash82 is based on a straight and quick copy of the 190 radial engine (BMW 801) NOT American
the only powerfull engine the US had is the prat 'n whitney
It is not true. The predecessor of Ash82 (former M-82) was R-1820-F3 "Cyclone" license on whish was bought by Soviet Union in 1933. Cyclone was produced in Soviet Union under the name M-25, but Shevzov developed this engine, and a lot of modification were produced (M-62, M-63, M-70, M-71 and finally M-82). A lot of that modifications were taken from new modifications of Cyclone. For example, M-82 was analog of R-2600 Cyclone (I don't know did Soviet Union bought the license on this engine or just stole it). First Ash-82 was produced in spring, 1940.
BMW 801 was descendant of Pratt and Whitney radials engine produced under license in Germany on 1930's. This engine was released to production in December 1939, so it is just impossible that russians could make the first M-82 in spring 1940 if would be copy of 801.
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Originally posted by Sikboy
As for the Soviet Hordes... I'm guilty as charged. I think that I've only flown 3 sorties so far this tour that weren't in Yak-9Ts, or Il-2s. One was a 109G10 (Don't care to fight at the 10k base in a Yak lol), one was in a Ki-84 (after reading the thread here on it) and the last was in a B-24 (Trying to play nice with others on a base capture).
I wish I could say that "I don't care what everyone thinks" but for some really odd reason, I do. While in AW I was always a fan of the La-5, and wished that the Yak-9D wasn't so much of a joke, I could never quite get myself to fly the La-7 with any sort of regularity (in 3 years I have 2 kills, and 3 deaths lol... maybe the only person in game who doesn't have a positive K/D in the thing heh). Mostly because of the stigma that goes with it.
Either way though, I find the Yak-9U to be more than enough plane to compete in the MA. What I like most about it, is the ability to move the fight away from an enemy field. I can usually entice a plane or two to follow me out of the furball for some individualized loving. I'm certainly no killer, but I give as well as I get most of the time. Of course, I often chase Cherry pickers in a furball, which is pretty much cherry picking in and of itself, so I'm not really all that classy lol.
I've been flying the Yak-9T more lately just because it's funny to watch planes break in half from a single ping at 400 yards.
-Sik
Can I get a AMEN?!?!?! :aok
I try to rotate through the lineup and get some exposure to everything, but the Yak9U is my favorite scrapper. The La-5 is nice too, but it just doesnt handle like the Yak. In AW we called the 9D the "ETO Zero".
The 109F-4 and the F4U-1D are also fun.
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Originally posted by Urchin
Well, that situation isn't unique to the El gay... it is just that they are faster than everything else.. so they get to you first.
Urchin,
You are very correct with this statement. The reason I said what I did was, if it is an LA7, I know that it is most likely a newer pilot or someone who doesn't know how to fly anything else, and therefore I'll look for that HO attempt. Maybe if Shane is in the area I'd probably not anticipate it, but you figure if that LA7 knew what he was doing he would have waited on his BnZ for a shot on my high 6 instead of co-alt 12. :) Then again, the situation also sorta dictates it, because you figure the guy guppy was on is screaming bloody murder on the range channel asking for help, so the LA7 probably chose the fastest route to intercept Guppy, and won't hesitate with at HO shot in order to save his friend.
The ride I'm most impressed with is the tempest... that plane has a mediocre chunk of everything good there is about a plane. Nice ride.... glad its perked too!
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perk the la7, p51 and anything under 15 ENY with one perk point at least... then the perks get automaticaly used, and the newbies wont be able to fly uber planes
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Gotta love Lavochkins... beautiful aeroplanes.
(http://www.warbirdsovernewzealand.com/la-9/LA-9_3705.jpg)
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Well, my opinion about the LA7 (I know you care). LA7s will give you a fight and they don't pull those undescribable moves the 190s do. If you perk the LA7 then as a matter of prinsipal, HT should disable atlist the D9s. Yes, I do understand that not everyone is using a D9 the same way, but it seems that because some guys HO using an LA7 then all LA7 drivers are doing it? Have you met a MOSS yet?
In any case. LA7s will give you a fight. D9s will run for ever, BnZ, for ever, HO on every pass, and stickstir you to death if you actually catch them. I don;t understand why the LA7 gets all the griff (because it Russian maybe? the source of all evil?).
Lose the La7 an dthe D9s will be untouchable
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Originally posted by dedalos
Well, my opinion about the LA7 (I know you care). LA7s will give you a fight and they don't pull those undescribable moves the 190s do. If you perk the LA7 then as a matter of prinsipal, HT should disable atlist the D9s. Yes, I do understand that not everyone is using a D9 the same way, but it seems that because some guys HO using an LA7 then all LA7 drivers are doing it? Have you met a MOSS yet?
In any case. LA7s will give you a fight. D9s will run for ever, BnZ, for ever, HO on every pass, and stickstir you to death if you actually catch them. I don;t understand why the LA7 gets all the griff (because it Russian maybe? the source of all evil?).
Lose the La7 an dthe D9s will be untouchable
Exactly why I'm always suspicious of 110s in the area, unless I hear of some JBs around. I ALWAYS make sure I'm on their 6, because more times than not, they will try and turn just enough to HO you. Notice this especially when trying to take a base... be leary of the gent who ups a 110 in base defense =)
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Originally posted by dedalos
Well, my opinion about the LA7 (I know you care). LA7s will give you a fight and they don't pull those undescribable moves the 190s do. If you perk the LA7 then as a matter of prinsipal, HT should disable atlist the D9s. Yes, I do understand that not everyone is using a D9 the same way, but it seems that because some guys HO using an LA7 then all LA7 drivers are doing it? Have you met a MOSS yet?
In any case. LA7s will give you a fight. D9s will run for ever, BnZ, for ever, HO on every pass, and stickstir you to death if you actually catch them. I don;t understand why the LA7 gets all the griff (because it Russian maybe? the source of all evil?).
Lose the La7 an dthe D9s will be untouchable
I think the LA7s get the greif because they seem to be either blowing in very fast or blowing out very fast from a fight.
Back in the AW days it was the D9 everyone bashed because you never saw it unless it was going light speed.
I know guys turn in the LA7 but in general it seems like you see them roaring in late to the fight, shooting and running.
The advantage or disadvantage of that low alt speed capability depending on your point of view :)
Dan/Slack
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edited, wont hijack.
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Originally posted by Furious
My understanding is that the ASh-82 (previosly M-82) was a short cylinder version of the M-81 and that the M-81 was a (or a derivitive of a) 14 cylinder Wright R-2600.
I know at least 2 web sites that say this as does Yefim Gordon
Well there is some disagreement about this too.......but its clear that all Shvetov's designs were spawned from Wrights technology as he held various licenses..........
below is one critique of Yifim Gordons assumption that the Ash82 was a short Wrights Cyclone.............
Opinions of
Ilya Grinberg, Erik Pilawskii
The hoary old Western myth that the Shvetsov M-82 radial was even remotely related to the Wright Cyclone is preposterous in the extreme, and unworthy of repetition by such distinguished researchers. The M-25 was indeed a license-built R-1820, but it was in production only very briefly before the considerably modified M-25A supplanted it. Further development of the M-25A and -25V resulted in the M-62 and M-63 motors, but that was basically the extent of the development of this family of aero engines. The 14 cylinder M-82 was an entirely original Shvetsov design, perhaps conceptually influenced-- as were all European 14 cylinder radials (BMW 801, Hispano-Suiza 14M, FIAT A74, etc.)-- by the French Gnome-Rhone 14B radial of 1932.
Whilst the cylinder dia was identical to the R-2600 (155.5mm) if you start to look at pictures of the crank housing etc you will begin to pick up gross differences............
my view is that Shvetsov was well intol his 3rd or 4th serial engine development in the M 82 and his earlier ones were straight licensed copies........ he would of been well aware in 37 of the R-2600 and its potential.
The idea that the M 82 was a copy of the BMW just does not gel........ Shvetsov had no technology agreement with BMW.
Sorry about the hijack............. but common misconceptions were being aired
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Agreed, don't get me wrong they can and will run. Its just that some how its different for them. They are low and they are in the fight (even if they are fast). Prolly that is why the get you, the ar ein the fight. A D9 will dive in from 10K, you may or may not see a few tracers, and chances are you will never see it again. Another thing is, the lala does not have the fuel to clime to 20K and wait for a cherry pick. You will either use it to defend a base or to attack a base. In either case you will be on the deck with all kinds of planes diving on you. You will have about 5 minutes of fuel to get some kills and RTB.
I know I am bashing the 190 drivers but that not my intent. There are some really good 190 drivers out there. I am not talking about them. This not a comparison of the people but rather a comp of how the two planes could be and are used. I have some films that describe what I am talking (ok, I have a lot, ALT-R gets hit when I see a 190 to record the stick stiring, lol) about but I don;t want to post them with the pilot names in.
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Nice photo of the Breitling La9 furball.
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D-9 and La7 are the MAs 2 "Altenative" lifestyle brethren. One runs at high alts the other runs at any alt.
You take one and take the other as well as the Pony. those 3 are the sprinters in the MA, you take any out and you unbalance the situation.
If the La la would be given a small perk for the 3 gun package that was as rare as a (something hypocritically correct is being said so I won't say it) so it justifies that perhaps that might be the solution to the La la la la lal lallalalalalalalalallallalala lala...la problem.
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Originally posted by Overlag
perk the la7, p51 and anything under 15 ENY with one perk point at least... then the perks get automaticaly used, and the newbies wont be able to fly uber planes
Perfect! Newbies won't fly at all. Imagine frustration of new 2-weeks player who doesn't have any skills, is killed almost always and instantly, and can't even take a plane where he could get one accidental kill to get perk points. What do you think how long he would be playing?
I you want to have 10 players in MA at peak time you couldn't give better suggestion.
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Originally posted by Vad
It is not true. The predecessor of Ash82 (former M-82) was R-1820-F3 "Cyclone" license on whish was bought by Soviet Union in 1933. Cyclone was produced in Soviet Union under the name M-25, but Shevzov developed this engine, and a lot of modification were produced (M-62, M-63, M-70, M-71 and finally M-82). A lot of that modifications were taken from new modifications of Cyclone. For example, M-82 was analog of R-2600 Cyclone (I don't know did Soviet Union bought the license on this engine or just stole it). First Ash-82 was produced in spring, 1940.
BMW 801 was descendant of Pratt and Whitney radials engine produced under license in Germany on 1930's. This engine was released to production in December 1939, so it is just impossible that russians could make the first M-82 in spring 1940 if would be copy of 801.
Similarity with R-1820 ends in 60 series.
M-82 was completely new development and has very little in common with Wright engines.
It's true that BMW 114 and 132 were built under license, but saying that 801 was descendant of PW is a bit of a stretch.
Both ASh 82 and BMW 801 are considerably more compact in comparison to PW engines with similar power output.
EDIT: ups, Tilt beat me to it...
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Originally posted by 2bighorn
Similarity with R-1820 ends in 60 series.
M-82 was completely new development and has very little in common with Wright engines.
It's true that BMW 114 and 132 were built under license, but saying that 801 was descendant of PW is a bit of a stretch.
Both ASh 82 and BMW 801 are considerably more compact in comparison to PW engines with similar power output.
EDIT: ups, Tilt beat me to it...
Ok, agree. Hard to say about similarity of R-2600 and M-82, but ok, let leave details to specialists.
What I want to say that 801 and M-82 are absolutely different engines.
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Originally posted by Furball
Gotta love Lavochkins... beautiful aeroplanes.
Yep. Like these. :) (although I like the LaGG-3 photo best, maybe because it looks more like a Yak lol )
(http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/Riabsev/2242.jpg)
(http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/Riabsev/2257.jpg)
(http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/Riabsev/2243.jpg)
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God that plane is beautiful Furbe.
I'm dying for someone to make a skin for that first one Star.
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Originally posted by Karnak
Oh yeah, you sure know what you're talking about. Tempests are alllll over the place.:rolleyes:
That Ki-84 is just soooo fast and has such great firepower.:rolleyes:
This from a guy who chooses one of the most overmodeled fighters to fly and then has the gall to whine endlessly about it not being overmodeled even more.
1K3,
That isn't what I've read. Post some backup to that please.
Go hump someone else's ankle, loser. If you can prove the P-38 is overmodeled, prove it, or shut your arrogant pie hole, moron. While you're at it, go whine about your Axis ride's instability, or more to the point your inability to fly it. You and Kweassa go somewhere and roll up in a ball, and keep it to yourselves.
Every KI84 I meet goes HO. I meant Typhoons, not Tempests, I was a little busy at the time, pardon my imperfection, I'm sure you never misspoke about anything in your life. I'm in the shop by myself today, my partner's daughter is having a baby. Anyone who was thinking knew exactly what I meant, just because you are too stupid to figure it out doesn't mean everyone else is.
Oh, and lately, I've seen a mass of Bish Tempests and jets, just because you haven't doesn't mean a thing.
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Looks like Karnak has made Cap'n Crunch's list as well...
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Jets are like so last year man.. this is the year of the tempest!
Man I love that ride :D
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"I find LA7s make up very good targets. Yaks and La5s are a different story cause usually the guys that take those two up know what they are doing. "
I figure this is the reason i get so many kills when flying it, usually against far superior numbers. It isnt much of a challenge to get kills in which is why its getting boring to fly. I dont think it should be perked...its the only plane to catch those annoying runway diving 190's :)
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Originally posted by Westy
Isn't that the way it always goes?
The disgusting part is the elGAY-7 Ho probably wet his pants from the excitement he got thinking he was l337 with killaH sn1p3r sKiLlZ!
Worst part of the new culture is that people are talking about jousting and snip3r skills. Are we playing a flight sim game anymore? :confused:
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Originally posted by Westy
l337 with killaH sn1p3r sKiLlZ!
I will never get the hang of l337 speak.
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Originally posted by Howitzer
Jets are like so last year man.. this is the year of the tempest!
Man I love that ride :D
I saw a bunch of the Saturday night. Surprised me as to the number of people flying it. I guess since there were several at once, it was a mission, or two. Maybe they figured since there were several, they were safe in flying perk rides. Some were well flown, some were not. I did however see them on several sorties in a row. I saw groups of 3 to 5 on a couple of sorties. Most were doing the same tired LA7 deal, zoom in, make a pass, and run like a sissy. Some did a good job of using their advantages.
A few guys in the squad did a Tempest mission the other night, I opted out, as I rarely fly perk rides. I've got a couple thousand perks, I'd give them to my buddies if I could. I do fly a C Hog or a -4 every once in a while, or maybe a 152 if I'm hunting bombers at HQ. I think I've taken about 10 hops in a 262 in all the time I've flown in AH. I've flown the Tempest, it's a great ride.
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Perfect! Newbies won't fly at all. Imagine frustration of new 2-weeks player who doesn't have any skills, is killed almost always and instantly, and can't even take a plane where he could get one accidental kill to get perk points. What do you think how long he would be playing?
What's to imagine about? They already don't have any skill, and is killed almost always and instantly, in whatever plane they choose to fly in.
The only difference in the current MA is that since all of the late-war dragsters are totally free(and yet, only some of those are perked at 60+ points.. sheer unjustice to RAF fans), sometimes, they will survive an engagement they should have died in, due to the sheer speed of their planes. This as a direct result motivate them to fly exclusively those fast planes, instead of try to get better in overall flying skill so they don't die always and instantly.
I you want to have 10 players in MA at peak time you couldn't give better suggestion.
Many, many MMOGs take on the form of "practice to get better, get better to collect money, collect money to buy better weapons" type of gameplay. In fact, in this perspective AH is a rare exception rather than the norm.
This automatic assumption that an external price tag will instantly make players quit, is sheer folly, which is to be blamed for the current stagnation of hordish MA gameplay.
This is not a matter of principle. It's a matter of efficiency. Find the right price and it serves as a motivation rather than hinderance - something that the player can appreciate and relate to, rather than give up totally.
If the "superplanes" were perked at 10+ points, it would indeed be a major hinderance. An average pilot in the MA gets one kill in the MA and then dies almost immediately. They collect about 1~1.5 perk per each sortie which typically lasts about 10 minutes. If they have to work over 10 sorties in 100 minutes to just fly the super plane once, then like you said, people would rather quit.
However, what if they were perked at 3~5 points?
That is something to ponder about.
If they go HO two~three enemy planes in 15 minutes of their miserable short sorties in a P-51B they will collect enough perks to fly a P-51D. They will be able to fly it, and probably die again, losing 5 perks. However, it's not like "oh ***, I lost my 200 perk Me262.. I have to work couple of more months before I ever get to fly one again". Will people be totally discouraged, afraid of losing merely 5 perks?
I think not.
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Another fact to consider, is that the existence of "vets" in the MA currently hardly effects the game in any kind of scale. Ofcourse, a single 25x25 sector featuring amalgam of super-AH-aces such as Drex, Levi, Fester, Steve, Shane all in the same team, would probably have some kind of short-term effect - except these kind of 'events' rarely ever happen in MA.
The "vets" are only a handful. They're not always online. The majority of MA is hordes of amateuers vs amateuers, novice vs novice, average vs average game. The typical "newbie" is not shot down by good pilots. The typical "newbie" gets shot down while fighting another newbie, or groups of newbies.
Putting small perk prices on late-war planes has absolutely none, or negligible influence, in "making life harder for newbies". If a certain newbie can't afford flying La-7s or P-51Ds all the time, then it means most of the situations he falls under, he will be fighting with people under the same circumstances as he is.
They say that the meek shall inherit the Earth.
So it has been done - the meek did inherit AH MA. Whatever applies for one person, applies the same for all. At least, for the majority that is large enough to make a difference.
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I think that given the total points/perks/rank/kill announcements rewards folk landing kills then any player concerned with any of the above will work to "land kills".
The more "timid" they are, and the more they revere the "scoring systems" then the more they will migrate to that ride and that technique that most easily achieves their ends.
Different mentalities and abilitiies will get bored with this at differing rates...................
IMO perks are there for gameplay balance at its basest level. The object is to maximise player choice and only modify rides with respect to gameplay where some rides may over balance it.
A graduated perk system may reduce the tendancy to HO or carry out suicide tactics. IMO it will also generate higher levels of so called timidity.
Generally, players with "something to lose" will be more reluctant to enter situations they are not confident of getting out of............yet these same players will not choose rides that have obvious disadvantages over the general spread of rides in use.
Perks do not behave like currency...........they do not enable you to buy a ride that will earn even greater perks (infact perked rides are generally poor currency earners)..............if they did then generally players would all end up flying 262's............
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I don't think perking any more planes is really the answer. Besides, I'm not at all in favor of preventing people from flying what they like, jets not withstanding (it is after all, a basicly prop driven fighter game). As much as I don't like facing poorly flown cannon equipped and/or fast planes cherry picking and such, I can't bring myself to support perking them and preventing people who like flying them or at least handicapping their particular type of fun. I may complain about it, I may not like it, I may even let it make me mad when I get picked in a good fight or coming out of one. But I can live with it, it doesn't make the game unplayable, it is just an annoyance.
With the advantages it has in speed, handling, and being a small target, I figure the LA7 would have to be perked far more than the C Hog, which just has a great set of guns. A small perk price might keep a few people with very low perk accounts out of them, but it would not cut down on the use of it that much.
What we're dealing with is a mentality among a certain group that the rest cannot hope to change. I suppose you could just perk everything with one or more cannons and/or a deck speed of more than 340MPH up to a certain level that more than a few can't or won't pay. That MIGHT prevent the majority of the HO and run method of cherry picking. But that's about what you'd have to do to eliminate that sort of behavior. It simply is not a viable solution.
As far as timid behavior goes, there isn't much you can do about it. Those who want to completely avoid dying will make every attempt to do so.
While you can take note of what is considered to be poor form, you can discourage it, you can treat those who fly that way with disdain, and you can learn to avoid much of it, there is nothing much that can really be done that will not drasticly effect those who do not partake in that behavior. This is a game, whether you like that fact or not. In that it is a game, some who play it will treat it as such. As much as you may not like it, they pay their $15 a month and support the company like anyone else.
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Try this senario. Last night 183 (or 184) was attacked by 2 CV groups. One LA7 was able to avoid being vulched (more the skill of the vulcher than the lala) twice, take out 9 vulchers in two runs and stop the attack until help arrived and the CVs were taken out. Considering I had 40 perks left after losing 2 262s, how many lalas would I have been able to up to defend that base if they were perked? If the cost was 1 perk point I could have upped 40 of them. If the cost was 10, I would just go somewhere else. I don't think perking them and not the D9s and 51s would be fair.
Obviusly, the 9 dead vulchers would have preffered to see me up a KI61, or 205, or a Spit so I can get repeatedly vulched rather than being a lala dweeb while they would get to land their 5 or 10 kills in their not so uber planes. So, they would like to see the lala perked. Never mind that they could not hit a plane on the grownd.
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Originally posted by Tilt
A graduated perk system may reduce the tendancy to HO or carry out suicide tactics. IMO it will also generate higher levels of so called timidity.
.............
Perks do not behave like currency...........they do not enable you to buy a ride that will earn even greater perks (infact perked rides are generally poor currency earners)..............if they did then generally players would all end up flying 262's............
I wish the high risk would yield high returns! I think that needs to be corrected.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
... sometimes, they will survive an engagement they should have died in, due to the sheer speed of their planes. This as a direct result motivate them to fly exclusively those fast planes, instead of try to get better in overall flying skill so they don't die always and instantly.
Wrong. This result does motivate them to fly fast uber planes, but it doesn't mean that they don't get better and don't get more skilled. Where you can get more skills: in 10 seconds fight or in 1 minute fight? If La-7 gives them few additional seconds of fighting experience it is enough to leave La-7 unperked.
Many, many MMOGs take on the form of "practice to get better, get better to collect money, collect money to buy better weapons" type of gameplay. In fact, in this perspective AH is a rare exception rather than the norm.
The main difference between AH and other games is the length of learning curve. It takes couple of days to become average and few weeks to become the best in Quake. After more than half a year of everyday flying I am still suprised if I landed. So, the norm you are talking about is unacceptable for AH.
Low price you suggest will not affect set of planes average player is flying now. Even average pilot has enough perks to do not worry about 1-2 perks. But even low perk cost will lead to much more timid flying, this is human mentality. Yes, 2 weeks newbies will not fly La-7 and P-51, they will instantly die in Hurri. And will give up and quit after couple of days. But the majority of average players will fly the same La-7 and P51 but they will fly them high and in hordes and run away in sight of any danger.
Ok, let be honest. I don't understand this whine about lalas (I don't mean you, I am talking in general).
1. I rarely see La-7 running, almost always La-7s fight regardless of how good or bad their pilots. P51 and 190s run almost always. If La-7 is so uber plane that even newbies feel confident and don't fear to jump into furball what else do you need? Perk cost for the most of the late-war planes just drops the number of good fights.
2. Now we can find nonperked planes in all categories for every type of fight: TnB planes, BnZ planes, fast planes, cannon planes, low alt and high alt planes, etc. Perk one of the categories and you will defenitely change this game. For example, if you will perk La-7 I predict the great increase of low alt bombing sorties.
3. The majority of the new players don't fly uber late-war planes. They fly everything, they just want to try all toys they got. The problem with La-7 is that this toy is more dangerous even in hands of complete idiot.
4. La-7 is not easy plane to fly, it is unforgiving on low speeds, has terrible cannons, has low range, etc. I, for example, first couple of days in AH flew everything, next two months flew Spit9, and the next was 190D. So, I am sure that the number of newbies flying La-7 is overestimated. Yes, average pilot with some skills and experience will prefer La-7. It gives him some confidence, allows to improve his score, etc. But after some time he will switch to another plane anyway because it is just boring to fly only one type of missions - base defence.
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Originally posted by Vad
1. I rarely see La-7 running, almost always La-7s fight regardless of how good or bad their pilots. P51 and 190s run almost always. If La-7 is so uber plane that even newbies feel confident and don't fear to jump into furball what else do you need?
:rofl Don't you see that this is the problem? Chances are a lala will turn around and kill you making you feel like a newb. A 51 or 190 running makes you look like a hero and the comunity learns your name when you put out on 200:"hahaha lame runstang running from HURRI"
Another reason is that people would love to have you up with 100% fuel in a jug just that they can continue their vulching or RTB (run to base) if you make it of the grownd. Have you seen what happens to a base cap when a couple of lalas make it off the vulchway? If it was not a squad op and no goon was on the way, all the red disapears in seconds
PS. lalas cannot run. Don't have the fuel for it
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You all must fly in a completely different arena that the one I flew in, I had el gays running from me in droves.
They introduce a new arena since the beginning of January?
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la7's can run fast and for a long time..chop the rpms when u get to cruising speed and watch your e6b go through the roof, while not losing any signifigant speed. Hell i have to burn fuel on the way to fight for better performance sometimes when in the la7.
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Originally posted by Urchin
You all must fly in a completely different arena that the one I flew in, I had el gays running from me in droves.
They introduce a new arena since the beginning of January?
Nah, you must be in the CT. Come back to the MA :rofl
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La7's still run and they always will, MA is still the same Urchin
I'm not sure i agree a newbies skill increases when flying the la7. Sure he may live longer, however is it from added experience or is it simply because the la7 is highly survivable. If you can't apply things learned in the la7 to all other planes, you haven't learned anything.
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Originally posted by thrila
If you can't apply things learned in the la7 to all other planes, you haven't learned anything.
you got that backwards, actually.
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You know what i mean shane.;) i fly all planes in the same general manner, as i know you do. Every plane has it's little quirks, but can be flown in the same manner as everything else.
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well that's the thing, too many move almost directly to the la7 and never really learn anything - so if they move onto some other plane, all they're probably carrying from the la7 would be cherrypicking/horde/run for help "skillz."
to truly appreciate the la7 and *all* it's capabilities, one should learn a variety of other planes from both the tnb and e-fighting regimes.
how often do you see a typical la7 tnb with, say a niki, or spit? or an la7 climbing up in an extending hanging on prop spiral vs a 109? or one playing with and baiting a high bnz pony or dora, as opposed to merely vacating the premises?
the la7 is *both* over- and underestimated.
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Well, as far as flying the Soviet hardware....
There is no better fighter in this game for a short-notice defense against a big NOE raid than the La-7. It gets airborne in a blink and accelerates so fast that you can be above 300 mph before they even realize you are present. Blow by the fighters and butcher the Goons. Then you can come back and abuse the rest.
For offensive fighter duty, I prefer the Yak-9U due its better range and general high-speed handling.
For general defense against aircraft and GVs, I like the Yak-9T for its one ping kills of soft GVs and fighters, with 2 or 3 ping kills of Buffs. I'll also fly the La-5FN as well.
When being swarmed by GVs and/or fighters, I'll take up an IL-2. It's a pig, but it's usually underestimated and those 23mm cannon are extremely lethal. I can usually get 2 or 3 of their fighters before the IL-2 is a flying sieve.... Then I just ditch it and grab another. Once in a while one sheds its tail... But what the heck, it's still a blast.
My regards,
Widewing
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I know I am bashing the 190 drivers but that not my intent. There are some really good 190 drivers out there. I am not talking about them. This not a comparison of the people but rather a comp of how the two planes could be and are used.
Honestly this is true for all three current "speed demons" of the MA, the LA7, the D9 and the P51.
Each of them is actually the fastest non-perked ride at certain altittudes.
The LA7 will stomp anything below 10k, between 10-20k the D9 is at it's best speed and above 20k the P51 is second to none.
The only reasons the LA7 is somewhat prefered in the MA is the fact that most fights will be lower than 10k, were D9 & P51 will atleast show some "weaknesses".
So if anyone thinks of perking the LA7, the D9 & P51 will have to be perked too.
I personally would not have a problem with my beloved D9 being perked at 5 to 10 points.
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i think i might start flying la7s from now on. im sick of getting in a fight, only to have the other guy run.... if im flying a la7 he cant run.......
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oh yes they can, especially if d9, tiff, pony, 109g10 or other la7 - even some other planes can get a decent running start.
you'd be surprised how long it can take to overtake a dedicated runner - more often than not you'll end up chasing him right smack into a bunch of hordemonkeys coming to save the screaming pillow biter.
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Originally posted by Shane
oh yes they can, especially if d9, tiff, pony, 109g10 or other la7 - even some other planes can get a decent running start.
you'd be surprised how long it can take to overtake a dedicated runner - more often than not you'll end up chasing him right smack into a bunch of hordemonkeys coming to save the screaming pillow biter.
:lol
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Originally posted by Overlag
i think i might start flying la7s from now on. im sick of getting in a fight, only to have the other guy run.... if im flying a la7 he cant run.......
There is a better use for a lala. Come in over a base that the red guys just took off (make sure there are a lot of them low and slow). Come in a little under the speed of sound. Kill a couple while typing on 200 like a mad man. Then, either run far far away to regain speed and alt (always keep 200 busy talking about the hord you just took on). Finally, get yourself killed and proced to explain on 200 about the hord you took on and the skilless nweb, dweb, hord monkie, (create new insult words here), that killed you. Make sure you say something smart like "hahahahah dweeb, I was going to be out of fuel in 5 minutes anyway" or blame your bad SA on the guy that "cherrie picked" you. Don't forget, what ever the outcome, you nust flad 200 with insults.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Dats nothing.
The nits looked quite foolish that one time when rooks blasted the field for 20 minutes. VH and FH's were up and everyone ran out of fuel/ammo so the vulch game ended.
So there I was alone with a goon and every fellow rook already flew away. Frustrated, driving a goon all that way to see only red dots on the map.
I proceeded to fly closer in the cover of valleys even though there were at least 7 nits flying above the field.
To my surprise the town was still dead. I made the drop and boy was it fun to see the airborne nits get showered by the ack as the field was taken with not a single enemy anywhere near (well, except me in the goon.) :lol