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General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Krusty on February 17, 2005, 10:36:09 PM

Title: LW 13mm MG-131s
Post by: Krusty on February 17, 2005, 10:36:09 PM

Stupid question, probably, but were these guns firing solid rounds (like 50cal?) or small explosive rounds (like MG-151 and small caliber cannon?)?

Title: LW 13mm MG-131s
Post by: Glasses on February 17, 2005, 10:52:05 PM

I call the powers of knowledge from the altar of munition knowledge TONY WILLIAMS COME HITHER  and Enlighten us mere mortals  :D

Title: LW 13mm MG-131s
Post by: Pongo on February 17, 2005, 11:12:00 PM

They had explosive rounds.

Title: LW 13mm MG-131s
Post by: Tony Williams on February 17, 2005, 11:33:58 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Glasses
I call the powers of knowledge from the altar of munition knowledge TONY WILLIAMS COME HITHER  and Enlighten us mere mortals  :D

Did somebody rub my lamp? :cool:

There were various types of ammo fired by the MG 131, including HE, HEI, AP and incendiary, with or without tracers.

I have seen belting ratios of 2 x HEI-T plus 1 x AP-T, or 1 x AP-T, 1 x HEI and 1 x HE-T.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk) and discussion
 forum (http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/)

Title: LW 13mm MG-131s
Post by: Krusty on February 18, 2005, 01:00:34 PM

So... Why in AH do we have crappy 13mm guns that only act like 50cals? They should be much more powerful!

Title: LW 13mm MG-131s
Post by: Karnak on February 18, 2005, 01:21:05 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
So... Why in AH do we have crappy 13mm guns that only act like 50cals? They should be much more powerful!

AH seems to favor muzzle velocity and the 13mm MG131 had a crappy muzzle velocity.

Also keep in mind that the HE or HEI content of rounds that small will be pretty low.

Title: LW 13mm MG-131s
Post by: moose on February 18, 2005, 01:23:11 PM

what if we were able to select different types of ammunition ? incindary would be fun to use :D

Title: LW 13mm MG-131s
Post by: HoHun on February 18, 2005, 01:24:18 PM

Hi Krusty,

>So... Why in AH do we have crappy 13mm guns that only act like 50cals? They should be much more powerful!

Well, compare the following rounds:

Round       Type    Mass g  v0 m/s  Chem% KE kJ    ChemE kJ total E kJ
12,7x99     API     112     890     2     17,0     4,8      21,8
12,7x99     AP*     112     890     0     17,0     0,0      17,0
13x64B      AP       76     710     0      9,7     0,0       9,7
13x64B      HE       72     750     3,5    9,6     6,6      16,2

* Figures from API with 0 chemical energy for comparison purposes

The 12.7 mm M2 fires a 50% heavier shell at a 20% higher velocity, giving about 2 times the kinetic energy.

Use the most powerful round for the MG131 and the 12.7 mm M2 alike, and the firepower of the M2 is 135% per round. Figure in the higher rate of fire of the MG131, the M2's firepower per barrel is just 117%.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

Title: LW 13mm MG-131s
Post by: MANDO on February 18, 2005, 02:39:35 PM

HoHun,

mixing incendiary chem with he chem with no chem at all, to find out a total E and derive from there the potential damage is a big mistake.

Powerful AP or API will do a deep or deeper hole with or without fire chance. He damage is different at all. Is like comparing medieval swords with medieval mazes, you just cant use the weight and speed of the blow to calculate an ammount of damage for mazes and swords.

Title: LW 13mm MG-131s
Post by: HoHun on February 18, 2005, 03:08:23 PM

Hi Mando,

>mixing incendiary chem with he chem with no chem at all, to find out a total E and derive from there the potential damage is a big mistake.

Not at all :-) It's a slight oversimplification that averages out over a large number of hits on a complex target.

>Is like comparing medieval swords with medieval mazes, you just cant use the weight and speed of the blow to calculate an ammount of damage for mazes and swords.

Terminal ballistics is hell :-)

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

Title: LW 13mm MG-131s
Post by: Schaden on February 19, 2005, 11:30:09 AM

Quote

Originally posted by Glasses
I call the powers of knowledge from the altar of munition knowledge TONY WILLIAMS COME HITHER  and Enlighten us mere mortals  :D

Sort of like the Bat Signal?

Title: LW 13mm MG-131s
Post by: frank3 on February 21, 2005, 02:49:29 PM

I always thought the .50 contained explosives?

Title: LW 13mm MG-131s
Post by: Pongo on February 21, 2005, 03:03:59 PM

Nope just incenderary.

Title: LW 13mm MG-131s
Post by: frank3 on February 21, 2005, 04:22:08 PM

Incendary means that the thing will damage something due to impact?

Title: LW 13mm MG-131s
Post by: lasersailor184 on February 21, 2005, 05:08:47 PM

Incendiary = Fire.  It's meant to cause a fire to whatever it hits.


If you take a regular .50 BMG and hit a grass hut, it's gonna make a clean hole.

You take an Incendiary .50 BMG and hit a grass hut, it should light that sucka up!  (Should being the keyword there).

Title: LW 13mm MG-131s
Post by: Kweassa on February 21, 2005, 10:59:42 PM

Think of incendiary rounds as fire arrows, and high explosive as grenades.

 A fire arrow will cause fire if it hits flammable material, but still its main component of damage is derived from penetration. A grenade, on the other hand, is a timed bomb. The blast is the main component of damage.

Title: Re: LW 13mm MG-131s
Post by: bunch on February 22, 2005, 12:44:52 AM

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
Stupid question, probably, but were these guns firing solid rounds (like 50cal?) or small explosive rounds (like MG-151 and small caliber cannon?)?

There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers...Hey! Like this one!

Title: LW 13mm MG-131s
Post by: Ring on February 22, 2005, 03:04:56 PM

http://prodocs.netfirms.com/
WEAPONS INFO (type,speed,filling)