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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: beet1e on February 20, 2005, 04:36:07 AM

Title: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: beet1e on February 20, 2005, 04:36:07 AM
Yesterday was the first Saturday under the government's new ban on hunting foxes with hounds. Although it's a "sport" in which I would not participate, I feel it was quite wrong of the government to ban it in the way it did, which was to railroad the legislation through parliament by using The Parliament Act (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4024923.stm).

Britain's Hunting Ban - Full Report (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/02/20/nhunt20.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/02/20/ixhome.html)

(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2005/02/20/nhunt20.jpg)  

Excerpt -
Quote
Almost 100 foxes were reported killed by hunts across Britain yesterday during a mass show of defiance by foxhunters against the Government ban on their sport.

Hunts including the Tynedale, the Spooners and West Dartmoor, the Bicester, and the South Shropshire all said that they had killed foxes, although each insisted that they had done so in accordance with the new law permitting foxes to be flushed out by no more than two hounds and shot.
    
The Countryside Alliance said the tally of dead animals was 91

The Countryside Alliance, which said that the tally of dead animals was 91, also claimed that the law had not been broken. Yesterday's tally was roughly the same as on any Saturday before the ban was introduced. The League Against Cruel Sports said that it believed that "extremely suspicious" activities had taken place. The police presence at many of the 184 hunts that took place yesterday was minimal and there was little evidence of officers following huntsmen to check whether or not the law was being broken. Tim Bonner, for the Alliance, said that the day of protest, which was supported by thousands of huntsmen and women, had been a great success and had demonstrated the countryside's opposition to the legislation.


The Protests

(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2005/02/20/nhunt20a.jpg)


It's funny, but I remember no such scenes of protest when guns were "banned" in 1997.  Can you say "nonissue"? :lol
Title: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: Gh0stFT on February 20, 2005, 04:52:30 AM
i'm sorry but what kind of "Sport" is that? lol
1:0 for the Fox ! :aok
Title: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: straffo on February 20, 2005, 05:37:23 AM
91/184 it's not a good kill ratio especially considering the deployement of force by the hunter :)

At least the fox can escape ...
Title: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: Chortle on February 20, 2005, 06:12:42 AM
Its fun watching people who've inherited all their wealth and own half of Hampshire climb out of their 4x4's and claim they're being victimised as a minority.

The last time they felt so violated was when the peasants were given the vote and representation in Parliament ;)
Title: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: 214thCavalier on February 20, 2005, 07:57:07 AM
And not quite as fun when the hunt runs straight through your vegetable plot and washing line, killing your cat/dog whilst pursuing that deadly fox.

Maintaining the status quo for traditions sake is not enough.

But Beetles post was not really about hunting, it was more to do with his mission of having a dig at and portraying Tony Blair as the Devil :)

Of course Blair did not want the bill passed as is he wanted to work out a compromise, his backbenchers however had other ideas and forced it through. Quite possibly just to have a go at the countryside conservatives, succesfully i might add :D
Title: Re: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: OneWordAnswer on February 20, 2005, 09:05:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e

It's funny, but I remember no such scenes of protest when guns were "banned" in 1997.  Can you say "nonissue"? :lol


Issue. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4204843.stm)[/b]
Title: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: spitfiremkv on February 20, 2005, 09:09:02 AM
I'd ban all sport hunting.
Unless it involved rednecks hunting eachother.
Title: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: rabbidrabbit on February 20, 2005, 09:23:32 AM
Quote
Originally posted by spitfiremkv
I'd ban all sport hunting.
Unless it involved rednecks hunting eachother.


You want other rednecks shooting you?
Title: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: lasersailor184 on February 20, 2005, 09:35:44 AM
Good!  Finally some englishmen with the balls to stand up to their government.
Title: Re: Re: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: beet1e on February 20, 2005, 09:49:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by OneWordAnswer
Issue. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4204843.stm) [/B]
irrelevant
Title: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: spitfiremkv on February 20, 2005, 10:10:52 AM
Quote
Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
You want other rednecks shooting you?



they'd miss cause their jiggling beerguts will prevent them from getting a steady aim :)
Title: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: lazs2 on February 20, 2005, 10:13:28 AM
I am pretty much against all bans and applaud just about any defiance against government but...

I might be amiacable to a ban on those outfits.

lazs
Title: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: lazs2 on February 20, 2005, 10:15:46 AM
so spitfire... you are against shooting poor wittle aminals but it is ok to kill people?   Let me guess.... vegetarian?   peta member?  british?

Bob Munden is proof that beer guts don't get in the way of shooting but then.... you really wouldn't klnow much about shooting would you?  Not even if you wanted to.

lazs
Title: Re: Re: Re: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: OneWordAnswer on February 20, 2005, 10:21:57 AM
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
irrelevant


Ignorance.
Title: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: Otto on February 20, 2005, 01:11:19 PM
Just another example of the English ruling class pitting old friends (foxes and dogs) against each other in order to hold onto power while repressing the hope and aspirations of all K-9's everywhere to live in peace and harmony.


"'Browser's of the World unite....!!!  You have nothing to lose but your collars..."
Title: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: DREDIOCK on February 20, 2005, 01:27:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by spitfiremkv
I'd ban all sport hunting.
Unless it involved rednecks hunting eachother.


I woudnt. althought I dont see hunting as being a true "sport" I do support the activity.

Now if you want it be a "sport" you should hunt  bear with a hand held spear, and bowie knife.
Now THAT would be a sport.
Title: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: Vulcan on February 20, 2005, 01:32:09 PM
I think beetles point is hes showing the Brits can be far more violent and vulgar than the americans (without handguns!) and do it in a classier style at that ;)
Title: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: Elfie on February 20, 2005, 02:03:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
I woudnt. althought I dont see hunting as being a true "sport" I do support the activity.

Now if you want it be a "sport" you should hunt  bear with a hand held spear, and bowie knife.
Now THAT would be a sport.



No.....that would be suicide imo :rofl
Title: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: Otto on February 20, 2005, 02:23:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by spitfiremkv
I'd ban all sport hunting.
Unless it involved rednecks hunting eachother.


In many ways you're very lucky Spifire,  it's impossible to shoot Liberals...   it just goes in one ear and out the other...
Title: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: Nash on February 20, 2005, 02:29:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
I am pretty much against all bans and applaud just about any defiance against government but...


I disagree.

I think the Brits should take these dirtbag hippie protesters and lock 'em all up.
Title: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: Yeager on February 20, 2005, 02:33:45 PM
yep the brits are really showing their tenacity for the borish right to hunt cute harmless little furry doggies but when it comes to defending their life and property from criminals in their own society they want nothing to do with it.

definately twisted
Title: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: wetrat on February 20, 2005, 04:18:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Yeager
definately twisted
Or perhaps the American fear and paranoia doesn't extend to everywhere else in the world? Just a thought... :D
Title: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: tikky on February 20, 2005, 04:55:15 PM
YOU WANT TO KEEP SPORT HUNTING?

*1st do not shoot AP or HE rounds to animals (unless you want to eat them)
* GOV should BAN WEAPONS GRADE AMMOs (CALIFORIA's 50 cal/12.7mm ban is one giant leap for the mankind, .45s, .357s, 303s, and .22s ect ect should be next) and replace it with NON-LETHAL BULLETS. YOU should use DUMMY or DULL or RUBBER BALL rounds that will register hits to a computer (do we have these right now?)... animals will stay happy and alive... while keeping some of people's barbaric traditions...

:aok
Title: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: DREDIOCK on February 20, 2005, 05:13:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by tikky
YOU WANT TO KEEP SPORT HUNTING?

* GOV should BAN WEAPONS GRADE AMMOs (CALIFORIA's 50 cal/12.7mm ban is one giant leap for the mankind, .45s, .357s, 303s, and .22s ect ect should be next) and replace it with NON-LETHAL BULLETS. YOU should use DUMMY or DULL or RUBBER BALL rounds that will register hits to a computer (do we have these right now?)... animals will stay happy and alive... while keeping some of people's barbaric traditions...

:aok


One of the sillier (read STUPID) laws I've seen.
another typical "feel good" law as I like to call em.  Accomplishes nothing or next to nothing yet it feels good to pass it just so one can say they did

If I remember correctly the Ban on 50 Cal ammo only really effects the users of flintlocks.

Try and look up how many crimes have been commited by guns using 50 cal ammo.
Then even better yet try and look up to see how many crimes have been commited with flintlocks.

Broaden your search and see how many crimes have been commited by people using 50 cal ammo in the last 150 years

heh.
Good luck
Title: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: storch on February 20, 2005, 06:30:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by spitfiremkv
they'd miss cause their jiggling beerguts will prevent them from getting a steady aim :)


I'm 48 5'11" 245 lbs.  I have a nice paintball gun.  Come to Florida.  I'll give you 10 paces and 3 seconds to run.  :D Afterwards I'll pay for a rubdown and buy you supper.  :D
Title: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: beet1e on February 20, 2005, 06:49:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
I'm 48 5'11" 245 lbs.  
You fat slob. I'm 50, 6'1" and 223lbs. :p
Title: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: Skuzzy on February 20, 2005, 07:44:17 PM
Get a girdle beet1e.

I am 50, 6'3" @ 205 pounds
Title: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: NUKE on February 20, 2005, 07:52:31 PM
Hey Skuzzy, I'm 40 years old,  5'7" and 159 pounds.....wanna wrestle me at the next con?

I'll be wearing a bear costume.
Title: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: storch on February 20, 2005, 08:21:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
You fat slob. I'm 50, 6'1" and 223lbs. :p
hold hands with batfink, come to Miami.  I have more than enough paintballs for two running pommies,  I have more than enough pocket change to feed two emaciated pommies as well.

While I am fat I'll let anyone on this board punch me in the solarplexus so long as we can can go punch for punch.  :D It will most likely be three hits.  you hit me, I hit you, you hit the ground and probably toss up your cookies as well.  :D
Title: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: Stringer on February 20, 2005, 09:12:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by spitfiremkv
I'd ban all sport hunting.
Unless it involved rednecks hunting eachother.


Except it's hunters that contribute much more than most any other group when it comes to taking care of the natural habitat in which they hunt.

And you don't know very much about your average hunter.  Rednecks is definately NOT the term to describe your average hunter, especially when you consider the amount of money that goes into the gun, the equipment, the vehicle and into the dogs.  I'm referring to upland game hunters as that's the most hunting that I do.  It is not an inexpensive past-time.  But it is one that I'm passing onto my boys as my father did with me.
Title: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: Eagler on February 20, 2005, 09:19:40 PM
found it hilarious to see these richer than sin stuffy brits actually crying on the tele about this ban on their silly "traditional" "Sport"

Foxes 1, Stuffy brit snob 0

LOL
Title: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: lasersailor184 on February 20, 2005, 10:34:34 PM
Dredi, I actually do agree with you.


There's no sport with sitting with a high power rifle with a 10x scope in a tree stand being able to knock the fly out of it's wings at 300 yards...
Title: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: beet1e on February 21, 2005, 03:11:07 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Skuzzy
Get a girdle beet1e.
:rofl:)

Quote
Originally posted by Stringer
Except it's hunters that contribute much more than most any other group when it comes to taking care of the natural habitat in which they hunt.

And you don't know very much about your average hunter.  Rednecks is definately NOT the term to describe your average hunter, especially when you consider the amount of money that goes into the gun, the equipment, the vehicle and into the dogs.  I'm referring to upland game hunters as that's the most hunting that I do.  It is not an inexpensive past-time.  But it is one that I'm passing onto my boys as my father did with me.
The Countryside Alliance here often points  to the positive impact that hunting has on the economy. Jobs are created managing the stables and managing the hounds, and there are jobs created in the business of supplying horse bridles and other riding gear.

As for the actions of the hunters ridding our countryside of the blight caused by foxes, I think that's largely BS: Foxes are bred in captivity to be released into the wild to be hunted.
Title: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: DREDIOCK on February 21, 2005, 08:11:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Elfie
No.....that would be suicide imo :rofl


Naaaa The Indians used ta sometimes do it that way didnt they.

Hey then at least the animals would have a "sporting" chance.

Just remember. you dont "play dead" for black/brown bears.
they will eat you anyway LOL
Title: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: Toad on February 21, 2005, 08:53:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
Dredi, I actually do agree with you.


There's no sport with sitting with a high power rifle with a 10x scope in a tree stand being able to knock the fly out of it's wings at 300 yards...


Come with me to the Colorado mountains sometime and hunt elk. Spend a week climbing and feezing from before sunup until after dark and then tell me how easy it all is.
Title: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: lazs2 on February 21, 2005, 09:58:54 AM
fat slobs... I am 55.... 6'1" and 190 lbs.  And... I am irresistable to women and certain types of men (not just brits).  

lazs
Title: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: lazs2 on February 21, 2005, 10:01:55 AM
oh... and the .50 caliber ban has to do with the fact that the round will penetrate the armor on bulletproof limo's

I don't have any friends that drive around in bulletproof limo's but the people who made the law do.  

I don't fear the people having .50's but the government does.

lazs
Title: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: beet1e on February 21, 2005, 10:24:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
fat slobs... I am 55.... 6'1" and 190 lbs.  And... I am irresistable to women and certain types of men (not just brits).
190lbs., but didn't you cheat earlier in life? :eek: I was ectomorphic until the family genes kicked in, about 30 years ago.

If lasersailor can't make it, I should go with toad to hunt elk. The location and the mountain climbing sound idyllic. And, believe it or not, I have shot and killed with a gun before. Got a hell of a bollocking for it though.
Title: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: straffo on February 21, 2005, 10:27:40 AM
I expect a rush of red dressed brit with horses in France ... :D
Title: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: DREDIOCK on February 21, 2005, 10:52:28 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
Come with me to the Colorado mountains sometime and hunt elk. Spend a week climbing and feezing from before sunup until after dark and then tell me how easy it all is.


and tell me how that translates into a sport. Or in being sporting.

Hell I've done that hiking. Though not in Colorado.
Dont view hiking as a sport though either.

I support hunting and hunters.
but its not a sport. Its an activity.
Title: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: DREDIOCK on February 21, 2005, 10:55:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
oh... and the .50 caliber ban has to do with the fact that the round will penetrate the armor on bulletproof limo's

I don't have any friends that drive around in bulletproof limo's but the people who made the law do.  

I don't fear the people having .50's but the government does.

lazs


Funny thing is the only people who might shoot at those cars with 50 Cal are the ones that dont care if there is a law or not and probably work for people who could and would easily obtain it elsewhere.
So for them the law is irrelevent
Title: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: Toad on February 21, 2005, 10:59:13 AM
All in how you define "sport" I guess.

If you're looking for something with referees and rules, big crowds and player jerseys.... hunting isn't it.

I find it quite "sporting". But then I think the definition of "sport hunting" and "sport fishing" make sense when viewed against "subsistence hunting" and "subsistence fishing".

Does that help?

No?

Perhaps this then:

A sport consists of a normal physical activity or skill carried out under a publicly agreed set of rules, and with a recreational purpose: for competition, for self-enjoyment, to attain excellence, for the development of skill, or some combination of these.

Hunting is definitely a physical activity and requires varying amounts of skill, depending on how you pursue the activity. I suggest to you that taking a Rocky Mountain elk in his native habitat requires some skill as evidenced by the pretty standard success rate of less than 20%.

There are "publicly agreed rules"; generally, these are found in the game laws.

It's certainly recreational and leads to much self-enjoyment.


Sure fits the definition of a sport.
Title: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: OneWordAnswer on February 21, 2005, 11:14:01 AM
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
..but its not a sport. Its an activity.


confused (http://www.sportsafield.com/)
Title: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: rshubert on February 21, 2005, 11:17:46 AM
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
and tell me how that translates into a sport. Or in being sporting.

Hell I've done that hiking. Though not in Colorado.
Dont view hiking as a sport though either.

I support hunting and hunters.
but its not a sport. Its an activity.


From the Mirriam-Webster Dictionary:

Main Entry: sport
Function: noun
1 a : a source of diversion : RECREATION b : sexual play c (1) : physical activity engaged in for pleasure (2) : a particular activity (as an athletic game) so engaged in
2 a : PLEASANTRY, JEST b : often mean-spirited jesting : MOCKERY, DERISION
3 a : something tossed or driven about in or as if in play b : LAUGHINGSTOCK
4 a : SPORTSMAN b : a person considered with respect to living up to the ideals of sportsmanship c : a companionable person
5 : an individual exhibiting a sudden deviation from type beyond the normal limits of individual variation usually as a result of mutation especially of somatic tissue
synonym see FUN

In terms of (1) above, hunting very definitely IS a sport.

Thank you.
Title: So much for your hunt ban, Mr Blair
Post by: Shuckins on February 21, 2005, 11:36:44 AM
I'm 5'9" and 185 pounds...huff puff...

Punching those keys was exhausting...I gotta rest now.




Bye the way...unless you're a vegetarian, shut the ell up about hunting.  If you eat meat bought at a market you're killing by proxy, which is no different, except it makes you feel "better" about yourself.

Besides, I defy you to prove that hunting is in any way "unnatural."  Please don't trot out that tired old argument that it is "cruel."   All of nature is cruel, and will continue to be so until time itself ends.  That is the way it has to be.  

Grafting human "morality" onto an indifferent, amoral system is naive and silly.  Humans and their ancestors have been a part of that system for millions of years.  We are instinctively tied to that system, and can only feel complete when we are part of that system.  Hunting brings all of my senses alive and makes the hair stand up on the back of my head.

You city-folk don't fully understand that, because you are no longer a part of the system.  Modern society divorces you from it.  Your idea of being a part of the natural system is building a 10,000 square foot "log home" 10 acres of cleared land on a hilltop to enjoy the "view" in a wilderness state such as Colorado, or Montana, or Wyoming.

Live your "civilized" life any way you want to, but leave me alone to enjoy a life-style that is older and richer in lore and culture than anything urbania can offer.