Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: JB88 on February 21, 2005, 01:20:42 AM
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"There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. Some kind of high powered mutant never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die." - excerpt, fear and loathing in las vegas
(http://members.shaw.ca/charenton_/thompson.jpg)
Author Hunter S. Thompson commits suicide
Journalist penned 'Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas'
(CNN) -- Journalist and author Hunter S. Thompson, who unleashed the concept of "gonzo journalism" in books like "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas," fatally shot himself in the head Sunday at his home near Aspen, Colorado, police and his family said.
"On Feb. 20, Dr. Hunter S. Thompson took his life with a gunshot to the head at his fortified compound in Woody Creek, Colo.," said a statement issued by Thompson's son, Juan Thompson, to the Aspen Daily News as reported by the Denver Post.
"The family will shortly provide more information about memorial service and media contacts. Hunter prized his privacy, and we ask that his friends and admirers respect that privacy as well as that of his family."
A dispatcher for the Pitkin County Sheriff's Department confirmed Thompson's death.
Thompson, 67, was associated with the "New Journalism" movement of the 1960s, in which writers took a more novelistic and personal approach to their subjects. His account of a drug-fueled trip to cover a district attorneys' anti-drug conference as a writer for Rolling Stone magazine was the seed of "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas," perhaps his best-known work.
Subtitled "A Savage Journey to the Heart of the American Dream," the 1971 book included his lament on the passing of the 1960s and its "sense of inevitable victory over the forces of Old and Evil."
"There was no point in fighting -- on our side or theirs," he wrote. "We had all the momentum; we were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave. So now, less than five years later, you can go up on a steep hill in Las Vegas and look West, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark -- the place where the wave finally broke and rolled back."
In "Fear and Loathing: On the Campaign Trail '72," he described the campaign leading to Richard Nixon's re-election as president with terms like "brutal" and "depraved," speculating that Democratic Sen. Ed Muskie was under the influence of an obscure African psychoactive drug and bemoaned Nixon's looming victory by proclaiming, "Jesus, where will it end? How low do you have to stoop in this country to become president?"
Other works included "The Great Shark Hunt," a collection of Watergate-era essays; "Generation of Swine," his lament on the youth of the 1980s; and his account of Bill Clinton's 1992 presidential win, "Better than Sex." His lone novel, "The Rum Diaries," was published in 1998, while a collection of letters, "The Proud Highway: The Saga of a Desperate Southern Gentleman," came out in 1997.
In recent years, he wrote a column for the sports network ESPN's Web site. In his most recent piece, posted Feb. 15, he describes shooting at golf balls like skeet with a friend near his longtime home -- he called it "a fortified compound" -- outside Aspen.
"The general reaction here is shock and dismay, because he was such a figure in town," Aspen resident John Hoag told CNN. Still, Hoag said, Thompson remained a private person. "The most news we heard from him was when a pack of dogs killed his peacock, Atillah, and he broke his leg in Hawaii last year."
Thompson also was the model for the character of "Uncle Duke" in the "Doonesbury" comic strip. But Thompson strongly disliked the characterization, once telling an interviewer that he would set "Doonesbury" creator Garry Trudeau on fire if the two ever met.
In later years, however, Thompson said he had made peace with the "Uncle Duke" portrayal.
"I got used to it a long time ago," he told Freezerbox magazine in 2003. "I used to be a little perturbed by it. It was a lot more personal ... It no longer bothers me."
In 1980, actor Bill Murray portrayed Thompson in the film "Where the Buffalo Roam." And in 1998, the film "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" was released, based on Thompson's book and starring Johnny Depp as the journalist. A new film reportedly is in production based on Thompson's novel "The Rum Diaries."
The writer himself, Hoag said, will be missed. "There's no one in the world these days who writes the truth ... as he seems to, to me," he said. "He spoke to the world and said what people were afraid to say."
source. cnn.
one my alltime favorite writers, characters and namesake of my nephew.
the world has lost one of its greats.
:(
"Events of the past two years have virtually decreed that I shall wrestle with the literary muse for the rest of my days. And so, having tasted the poverty of one end of the scale, I have no choice but to direct my energies toward the acquisiton of fame and fortune. Frankly, I have no taste for either poverty or honest labor, so writing is the only recourse left for me." (Hunter S. Thompson, to Mr. Arch Gerhart, January 29, 1958)
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Bad news indeed!:(
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:Last column: shotgun golf with bill murray (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=thompson/050216)
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Well i'll be damned.
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Another druggie bites the dust.
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love that pic... what was he in it 12? He was 67 and looked 207..
Poster boy for not doing drugs.... his death was even a better reason to not be like him.
lazs
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Fear and Loathing has become the mainstay of the Republican party. They spread the fear and we start loathing.
Ceeya Hunter.... thanks for the giggles.
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Too bad he didn't value his own life half as much as he did his need for privacy...
Suicide...terrible to think that death is better....
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He had a way with words..... I'm not going to judge him...
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I reserve judgement on his suicide. There may have been medical reasons that made it a viable option.
lazs
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Fear and Loathing has become the mainstay of the Republican party. They spread the fear and we start loathing.
^^^
Misguided.
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Originally posted by lazs2
I reserve judgement on his suicide. There may have been medical reasons that made it a viable option.
lazs
And let his loved ones find him like that, and have to remove the carpeting, blood, matress / wallpaper, brain matter, and possibly shell fragments from the wall?
Hardly viable..take pills if that's the case.
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He had undergone recent surgical procedures - hip replacement, back surgery. Also he had recently broken a leg. I can tell you from personal experience that intense back pain can make you want to end it all. But no one who saw him in the week leading up to this noticed anything different - no signal that he'd reached his limit.
I'm hoping it was just an accident - that he pushed the limit of mixing booze and guns once too often and finally made a fatal mistake. That he left no note seems more consistant with an accident ... or a short burst of black-hole depression ... we may never know.
I always figured he'd go out in a car wreck. This totally sucks.
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i used to love reading his artivles when i was on lunch break at work..
Read his books..blah bla...Soem really funny sheite..
but....
Liek alot of these celebrities...he was off the wall soemtimes..
Like when you see an actor say..Bush is the Devil..blah blah..you lose respect for them
Same thing happened with Hunter....I lost respect ..but ohwell..
When I aw thsi suiced thing...I smiled..
If he was in such pain..then I guess hi sfamily will understand....
But I see it as extremly selfish....and disgusting
Way to go..brains around your house..Im sure your loved ones love to see that...
and his last article in esp2...it was crap..Defnlty looks liek he was not feeling so hot
When I see what others have gone through ..and choose not to take the sucking shotgun route...I feel disgusted by Hunters actions..especially for his family
coward......................w ell as far as I can read into it
If I was a POW getting tortured....I could see suicide...reading about ww2..Korean..Vietnams..Saddom s..torturing..I could see it...
His life was great..money..jobs...friends. .....he is selfish
well..again..seems liek it to me
dam shame..he was funny
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Originally posted by OneWordAnswer
^^^
Misguided.
Idiotic^
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Idiotic^
Why?:confused:
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^^^
Because.
DokGonzo said it best; this sucks.
RIP Doc.
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Y'know, I had just last week finished reading his latest collection,"Hey Rube." About 2 years worth of his ESPN2 articles, basically. And there was a line in one of the very last articles which seemed odd:
"When Failure starts to feel Normal in your life or your work or even your darkest vices, you won't have to go looking for trouble, because trouble will find You. Count on it."
The paragraph started talking about the Philly Eagles in 2003 ... but the comment seemed a lot more personal. It seemed out of place. Dunno.
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Originally posted by OneWordAnswer
Why?:confused:
Your posts suck.
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Hey! He did it his way.... If he wants to go out like this.... it's his life and I have no idea what were the reasons that could bring him to doing this but obviously, it was enough to make the choice....
He wrote some entertaining stuff..... some very funny and some very infuriating......
abedep abedep abedep ... that's all folks!!!
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Originally posted by ThreeWordAnswer
Your posts suck.
Why?:confused:
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Originally posted by ThreeWordAnswer
Your posts suck.
Couldn't have said it better with even 4 words.
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As your attorney, I advise you to grieve.
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I guess I was doing "Gonzo Engineering" and "Gonzo Driving" in college. If you are an alcoholic or drug addict, just add a "Gonzo" prefix to the names of your occupation and activities, instead of confronting your problems, and it will glorify your mediocrity.
I did enjoy the book about the motorcycle gang. After that he just lost too many brain cells to write more than 2-3 coherent pages.
He loved guns and football though, RIP.
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Hopefully my Dad won't be in Woody Creek working anytime soon then.......
He's a contractor cleaned up 2 or 3 suicides already in Colorado. Last one he picked out the shot gun pellets from the ceiling:(
It's sad no doubt
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i wonder what doc would have thought about those pellets being sold on ebay.
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extreme back pain and a broken arm or something? I can tell you from personal experiance that extreme back pain is simply.... extreme back pain.
Not like the wuss was adverse to self medicating.
Why didn't you commit suicide gonzo if it is so tuff?
lazs
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Do ya think Trudeau will kill off Uncle Duke?
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Originally posted by lazs2
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Why didn't you commit suicide gonzo if it is so tuff?
lazs
You almost got your wish several years ago.
What is most interesting is that when you do start talking about checking out, how many people of the people you know either don't believe you, don't want to hear it, or just don't give a damn.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Do ya think Trudeau will kill off Uncle Duke?
I'm thinking Trudeau will have Uncle Duke go thru a similar crisis with an alternate resolution.
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interesting - doonsbury site today (http://www.doonesbury.com/)
ask duke (http://www.doonesbury.com/arcade/askduke/)
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gonzo... where did I say that I wished you to kill yourself? I don't think that was really a fair statement as I have never wished that on anyone that I can recall and I don't even know or care about you.
My point was.... you did not. I did not. Pain may be an excuse. I meant incurable disease but you said simple back pain. The man was not adverse to self medicating so I doubt that he suffered much except..
drug addicts are the biggest babies I have ever seen.. even the tiniest amount of pain is enough for them to whine about even though they have enough drugs in em to tranquilize an elephant.
I believe that his suicide was probly just the ultimate expression of his lack of understanding of the human condition.
lazs
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Usually when someone online says "why didn't you go kill yourself" it's usually meant as wishful thinking.
I said "intense" back pain. The kind of stuff that no amount of Motrin will fix and which can make you instantly crippled and paralyzed at any moment of the damn day.
Thompson did drugs and booze for recreational purposes mainly. I've read just about everything he's written and I never got the impression these substances were a crutch - it was just something he liked to do. On the many occasions he got injured, it was more an excuse to do more drinking than an actual need.
-- edit --
From news coming out after the fact, this was all planned out. He had started leaving instructions for people, and changing his plans for parts of his estate recently. Not in a way that anyone would piece it together before hand, but in hindsight it's more clear that he had made a decision. Apparently the pain he was in from back surgery and a hip replacement made him want to end it before he started to waste away from this chronic disabilities.
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i think that i would have expected him to leave a note... then perhaps to steal off to some faraway mountain refuge to pause for one final meandering view of the panoramic vista; standing there, admiring the best part of a quiet earth and muttering something about rosebud.
if only just long enough to reflect and enjoy the mystery of it all...sitting up one last time to scream from the mountain to that the great punctuator that he too had been denied...a life on his terms to the end...an existentialist soul pulling the trigger in one last great thunderclap.
(cue the blackbirds)
thud.
alas. only we critics remain.
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(http://www.hunt101.com/img/162286.jpg)
RIP.
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Ode to Jack, by Hunter S. Thompson (http://lucas.is-a-geek.net/mp3/hunter_s_thompson-ode_to_jack_kerouac.mp3)
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yeah gonzo... only you and hunter know about pain. Broke my back twice.. nine broken vertebrae.. fused on it's own.. leg amputated and reatached three years to get to the point I could use it. couple of minor surgeries lately... aorta valve replacement and gall bladder. bone grafts few other minor compound fractures along the way.
never thought he used drugs as a crutch? being constantly loaded is a friggin crutch... he was simply a drug addict and alchholic.
He didn't know enough about life to live it because of the drugs.
just my opinion based on being a former drug addict and alcoholic and knowing a ****load of same. he was a little more clever than the average...... maybe.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
yeah gonzo... only you and hunter know about pain. ...
I didn't say that. I corrected your other misrepresentation of what I said. If you insist on using the Shrubert School of Intardnet for posting here, I'm afraid I'm just gonna have to ignore you.
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Originally posted by lazs2
yeah gonzo... only you and hunter know about pain. Broke my back twice.. nine broken vertebrae.. fused on it's own.. leg amputated and reatached three years to get to the point I could use it. couple of minor surgeries lately... aorta valve replacement and gall bladder. bone grafts few other minor compound fractures along the way.
never thought he used drugs as a crutch? being constantly loaded is a friggin crutch... he was simply a drug addict and alchholic.
He didn't know enough about life to live it because of the drugs.
just my opinion based on being a former drug addict and alcoholic and knowing a ****load of same. he was a little more clever than the average...... maybe.
lazs
ROTFL..... so Laz... are you a hollywood stunt man or is all those injuries the price you pay for having such a charming personality?
;)
Seriously, if you have talked about this before on the boards... i missed threads.... how does all that crap happen?
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you may not believe this but not everyone is charmed by me! some have even attemted to customize my manly good looks and in the process... only made things better. No woman can resist me.
The heart valve was apparently a birth deffect that I never knew about till recently... don't know what causes gall stones and I am so free of gall that I had allways assumed I was born without the organ.
One broken back was in a car wreck in my teens.. the other in a motorcycle wreck later. I rode Harleys back before women or accountants rode em. I rode em when I was a drug addict and alcoholic... the combination is somewhat non conducive to a healthy and long lifestyle. I have outlived every one of my friends from those days except one.
amputated leg was less than surgicaly removed by the bumper of a drunks Cadilac el dorado.
I prefer figting on the ionternet now with all you bright young lads.
lazs
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gonzo... you corected me on back pain by saying "intense" back pain... I would venture to say that most here who have had back injuries understand what back pain is all about. You also claimed that my wish was for you to die.
That was not true either.
lazs
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Anything worth doing is worth doing right. This is the American Dream in action. We would be fools not to ride this strange torpedo all the way to to end.
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Originally posted by lazs2
gonzo... you corected me on back pain by saying "intense" back pain... I would venture to say that most here who have had back injuries understand what back pain is all about. You also claimed that my wish was for you to die.
That was not true either.
I corrected you by quoting my original post where I used the word "intense" as opposed to your much toned down modifier. You tried to change my words and I caught you at it.
And you used the statement "Why didn't you commit suicide ...?" ... sure sounded like wishful thinking.
And now you're trying to slide in a dishonesty subtext. Lame. So very, very lame.
Bottom line is everyone has a different threshhold for pain and unhappiness. Creative people are more prone to depression, so that also needs to be added to the equation with HST. Maybe that's not something you can understand, but others reading this I'm sure do.
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I don't see what's so special about the drug addict loser. He killed himself........he's a loser.
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Please.....
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Nash, what's the big deal with him? He's a loser.
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Originally posted by NUKE
Nash, what's the big deal with him? He's a loser.
He's in the same league as Kurt Cobain. Thank god the Gene Pool Lifeguard was Off-Duty.
Karaya
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there is an old saying.
"critics are like eunics at a harem. they are there everynight, they see how it is done, but they cant do it themselves."
:)
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"I corrected you by quoting my original post where I used the word "intense" as opposed to your much toned down modifier. You tried to change my words and I caught you at it.
And you used the statement "Why didn't you commit suicide ...?" ... sure sounded like wishful thinking.
And now you're trying to slide in a dishonesty subtext. Lame. So very, very lame. "
oh? it certainly apears that you differentiate yours and hunters back pain from mere mortals back pain by the word "intense" There is no missunderstanding that I can see.
Then you claim that my "why didn't you kill yourself?" statement was ... wishful thinking? again... sishonesty. you pulled it out of context that was saying if "intense" back pain was a reason for suicide then why diodn't you kill yourself over your "intense" back pain? I was simply showing how lame your arguement was and instead of admiting it you pulled a statement out of context and used it to twist what was really said and meant.. dishonest ... spade a spade deal.
and for your silly "creative people are more prone to depression" snobbery.... puleese... You got numbers on that one? What an effite ellitist attitude. Some kind of emotional bigotry type of deal or what? We are all the same regardless of race creed or color except the creative people?
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
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and for your silly "creative people are more prone to depression" snobbery.... puleese... You got numbers on that one? What an effite ellitist attitude. Some kind of emotional bigotry type of deal or what? We are all the same regardless of race creed or color except the creative people?
If you bothered to google for "depression creativity" you'd find thousands of articles online about the subject. As usual, you are wrong - and you try to bolster your position with bluster and veiled insults.
We all have the same rights, but we are not all the same. Different races have different tendencies towards diseases - that's a medical fact. Hell, different cultures even have different sensitivity to color (not skin color, but color schemes) - that has been established in human factors studies over the last 20 years. And people with strong creative drives have been found to be more prone to depression and suicide.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
If you bothered to google for "depression creativity" you'd find thousands of articles online about the subject. As usual, you are wrong - and you try to bolster your position with bluster and veiled insults.
We all have the same rights, but we are not all the same. Different races have different tendencies towards diseases - that's a medical fact. Hell, different cultures even have different sensitivity to color (not skin color, but color schemes) - that has been established in human factors studies over the last 20 years. And people with strong creative drives have been found to be more prone to depression and suicide.
LOL... this is one of the best parts about these boards... watching total hard cases and total heart cases go at it.... yeeehaaaa! :D
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Originally posted by mosgood
LOL... this is one of the best parts about these boards... watching total hard cases and total heart cases go at it.... yeeehaaaa! :D
Uhhh ... so which am I? :D
Facts is facts, sorry if that bursts some people's bubbles.
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hmm... so if you haven't been published then you lack creativity?
How can there be a study of creative people? who decides what and who is creative. I know people who I think are much more creative than hunter ever was yet are virtually unknown.
only the elitist thinks he has a lock on what is or is not creative.
hunter wasn't all that special... his suicide proved he was not only not special but a big baby to boot.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
hmm... so if you haven't been published then you lack creativity?
[...]
only the elitist thinks he has a lock on what is or is not creative.
So, rather than take 10 minutes and read some research material that's readily available online, you prefer to twist logic and throw insults. You have provided a fine definition for "narrow minded." Thank you. Shrubert would be proud of you, you've even out-dumbed his level of idiotic posting.
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oh yeah... shrinks and scientists.. If I simply read the articles I would know that hunter was "special" .
First we got to decide if he was indeed "creative" and then if he was anymore "creative" than the guy who carves totem poles out with a chain saw living down the street.
I got a few laughs out of old hunter but... I kinda like looking at the old guys totem poles too... He's still alive tho.
Didn't wuss out.
lazs
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Lazs,
If I decide to cut short my own time on this festering glob of a planet, would you deliver my eulogy?
-DoK
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DoK,
havent read one of lasz's posts siince he got put on ignore a while ago.
(have i mentioned the theraputic value of this action?)
i am certain that one couldnt be any dumber or more narrow than the other.
its just not possible.
there is a point at which far becomes far, and dumb becomes simply indistinguishable from useless and inflammatory.
certainly he isnt suffering from any great breadth of creativity i would pretty much stake the house on that one.
oh, and nuke...picture yourself in a boat on a river, with tangerine trees and marmalade skies. somebody calls you, you answer quite slowly, a girl with kaliedescope eyes.
(so incredibly high appearantly)
oh, and DoK, if he won't, i will...and dont you worry about the cannon or whatever it is you need. i'll find one.
but not yet brother...much work to be done...the gonzo leaves a vacuum.
(my will explicitely states that my body is to be handed over to artists to make art out of...i have suggested an encasing of a solid block of acrylic, but it is only a suggestion...lord knows that i wouldnt want to interfere with the process.)
:cool:
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Pretty sure creative people can be spotted by their... er...... creations?
:aok
Now how elitist can you get?
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mt... I believe you are right on this. I agree completely. Most people are creative in their own way... to think otherwise is snobbery.
jb88 has the solution for you gonzo.... put your fingers in your ears and yell "naaaaaaa naaaaaa naaa" like he does whenever I post and you will realize the therapudic value of denial too..
better... do it in a bass to go with 88's soprano and you could be considered....welll....
creative.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
mt... I believe you are right on this. I agree completely. Most people are creative in their own way...
In that case, you have created an intellectual black hole and are dwelling quite nicely therein.
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gonzo... you need to get out more and interact with people. There are a lot of creative people out there that aren't known to your crowd and..... don't commit sucide or are particularly prone to depression.
but... wallow in your shallow little world.
lazs
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Laz fears what he does not understand. Ridicule is his defense mechanism. Maybe after he writes a few bestsellers and becomes a cultural icon, he will understand. Until then he's a rebel without a clue.
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Originally posted by lazs2
gonzo... you need to get out more and interact with people. There are a lot of creative people out there that aren't known to your crowd and..... don't commit sucide or are particularly prone to depression.
How you can jump from my presenting scientific research on the link between a strong creative drive and depression, to my somehow belonging to some cultural elite is really something to behold. With that kind of spin control, you certainly could have a career in our current Government.
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well whatever Hunter was..I think he is a creep..
tell your family to hang out in the house whiel you put a 45 in ur mouth?...disgusting..way to treat your family...
Selfish drug addict
typical..take the easy way out
was there a comet maybe he caught a ride to mars with his purpel nikes on?
OH!!!!!
I got it.....Bush made him do it!!..
no worries at all...you see...nothing he did or was doing had any impact on this world....;...maybe if he stayed alive he may have ...but..nope...he took the easy way out..typical dope head
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
In that case, you have created an intellectual black hole and are dwelling quite nicely therein.
Are you kidding, he coined the term "sky accountant", one of the best AH related witticisms ever created.
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"Over the side. Into the deep, blowing air like a porpoise as he slid away from the rocks and out to the open sea, slipping into the ocean with the atavistic grace of some mammal finally remembering where it really wanted to be."
--The Curse of Lono
RIP Hunter
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so... rpm... until you write a few bestsellers you are not creative? And.. if you do then any excess can be excused because welll.... scientific study shows that you are so special that you are entitled to be a POS and a coward?
His writing was OK at times but he wasn't an icon of my culture. He was a poster boy for yours and now you are pissed because he proved that he was a wuss... something his detractors allways knew. He talked tough tho.
lazs
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now fellas...remember, you are gonna have to remove the following characters from your collections.
jim morrison - druggie loser
janis joplin - druggie loser
james dean - alchoholc druggie loser.
kurt cobain - druggie loser. suicide.
ricky nelson- alchy loser.
dorothy dandrige - first black academy award nominee...overdose druggie.
marylin monroe- overdose druggie.
ernest hemminway - drunk, suicide.
george eastman- inventor. suicide
tom evans- of badfinger, suicide
herman goring - suicide.
robert von greim - suicide
peter ham - another badfinger suicide.
hannibal - suicide
margaux hemmingway- suicide
himmler-suicide
hitler - suicide
abbie hoffman- suicide
doug hopkins - gin blossoms, suicide
micheal hutchence- INXS, autoerotic asphyxiation.
diane arbus - photographer.
socrates- suicide
frida kahlo- painter, suicide.
terry kath- chicago. shot self
william knowland - senate leader, shot self.
merriwether lewis (of lewis and clark) possible suicide.
Jack london- suicide by overdose.
Aleksandr Mikhailovich Lyapunov, (1918), Russian mathematician, mechanician and physicist, suicide
Richard Manuel, (1986), singer, multi-instrumentalist, member of The Band hung himself while on tour in Fla.
Vladimir Mayakovsky, (1930), Russian poet; his suicide note said 'I don't recommend it for others'
Yukio Mishima, (1970), Japanese novelist; committed public ritual seppuku
Donnie Moore, (1989), relief pitcher for the California Angels
Sylvia Plath, (1963), American poetess, author and essayist
George Reeves, (1959), US actor, played Superman on television
Margie Schoedinger, (2003), Filed lawsuit against George W. Bush claiming she had been raped
Anne Sexton, (1974), American poet
Yutaka Taniyama, (1958), Japanese mathematician
John Kennedy Toole, (1969), American novelist (a confederacy of dunces)
Alan Turing, (1954), British mathematician and computer scientist
Ernst Udet, (1941), German air ace and Luftwaffe inspector general
Gen Ushijima, (1945), Japanese military commander who lost the Battle of Okinawa
Vincent van Gogh, (1890), Dutch painter
Sid Vicious, (1979) bass player of the Sex Pistols, not long after allegedly killing his girlfriend
Hervé Villechaize, (1993), French actor
Otto Weininger, (1903), Austrian philosopher
Paul Williams, (1973), singer (Temptations)
Percy Williams (1982), athlete
Wendy O. Williams, (1998), musician, The Plasmatics
Virginia Woolf, (1941), British novelist
just to name a few "losers" who have contributed nothing.
* note - i have included a few nazis for some of you...hope you appreciate the sentiment.
:rolleyes:
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socrates - suicide?
Huh?
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"The jurors were next asked to determine Socrates' penalty. His accusers argued for the death penalty. Socrates was given the opportunity to suggest his own punishment and could probably have avoided death by recommending exile. Instead, the philosopher initially offered the sarcastic recommendation that he be rewarded for his actions. When pressed for a realistic punishment, he proposed that he be fined a modest sum of money. Faced with the two choices, the jury selected death for Socrates.
The philosopher was taken to the near-by jail where his sentence would be carried out. Athenian law prescribed death by drinking a cup of poison hemlock. Socrates would be his own executioner. "
he drank the hemlock.
its a technicality, but it was listed as a suicide.
"in the immortal words of socrates...i drank what?!" - real genius
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Originally posted by lazs2
so... rpm... until you write a few bestsellers you are not creative? And.. if you do then any excess can be excused because welll.... scientific study shows that you are so special that you are entitled to be a POS and a coward?
His writing was OK at times but he wasn't an icon of my culture. He was a poster boy for yours and now you are pissed because he proved that he was a wuss... something his detractors allways knew. He talked tough tho.
lazs
Basicly, yes. You may think your creative. Your friends and family may tell you that you're creative. But untill you have reached that level where society tells you that you're creative and starts to demand it in everything you do or they rip you to shreds...you don't have a clue.
People operating at that level for that long are going thru things that you and I can't totally comprehend without the experience of actually being there. It has happened on more than one occasion as JB88 pointed out.
You didn't like Thompson's work, you're entitled to that. Trash talking a dead man in a memorial thread, well that's very special and creative on your part.
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well said rpm.
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Yeah .... rpm nailed it.
As for the whole "everyone is creative" bent, well, yeah ... every human is capable of creative endeavors and thought.
But I know from the tech field that if you put 50 engineers in a room ... all people who "create" software ... there will be at most 2 who really have that bulb lit. These are the guys who have the idea that the others build. Who see the end of the path and over the next hill before the others are even walking on cobblestones.
If you look at art, music, and film ... how many rip-offs are there compared to how many originals? Sure, the imitators are "creating" music, movies, and paintings ... but their creations are themselves derivative. There is no new spark of life. And it's being able to ignite that spark from the ether that is what differentiates the true creative spirits amongst us.
Jimi Hendrix, Stanley Kubrick, Salvidor Dali, Albert Einstein ... creative geniuses. I don't know if I'd put HST in that company, but he would be welcome at their House, and they at his.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
snip
Shrubert would be proud of you, you've even out-dumbed his level of idiotic posting.
On a note completely un-related to this discussion...
It was before my time, but I always heard you and DD were antagonists, back in the day.
Yet, this tactic (flaming by comparing someone to someone else you hold in contempt) is something I've noticed you both tend to. Wassup there? :)
just-curious-alero
PS - I'm with rpm on this one, opinions as to suicide, lifestyle or whatever notwithstanding, its a memorial thread, the trashing could wait 'til the body's cold. Sheesh.
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Originally posted by culero
On a note completely un-related to this discussion...
It was before my time, but I always heard you and DD were antagonists, back in the day.
Yet, this tactic (flaming by comparing someone to someone else you hold in contempt) is something I've noticed you both tend to. Wassup there? :)
just-curious-alero
...
Lazs uses the same (lame, hopeless, brainless) techniques as Shrubert. That's the only reason I compare 'em. It's basic Intardnet 101 stuff that's been fouling the air for 30 years.
DD and I only tangled over one issue - he felt the P38 should be armed with photon torpedos and given warp drive. And I felt that was overkill, and probably wouldn't improve DD's score anyway.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Yeah .... rpm nailed it.
As for the whole "everyone is creative" bent, well, yeah ... every human is capable of creative endeavors and thought.
But I know from the tech field that if you put 50 engineers in a room ... all people who "create" software ... there will be at most 2 who really have that bulb lit. These are the guys who have the idea that the others build. Who see the end of the path and over the next hill before the others are even walking on cobblestones.
If you look at art, music, and film ... how many rip-offs are there compared to how many originals? Sure, the imitators are "creating" music, movies, and paintings ... but their creations are themselves derivative. There is no new spark of life. And it's being able to ignite that spark from the ether that is what differentiates the true creative spirits amongst us.
Jimi Hendrix, Stanley Kubrick, Salvidor Dali, Albert Einstein ... creative geniuses. I don't know if I'd put HST in that company, but he would be welcome at their House, and they at his.
Dok,
Be carefull, by this definition it is almost advocating a superior class of human being to whom the rest of us less creative are supposed to....(recognise)(worship)(give special consideration)? Does this mean the rest of us do not have valuble and creative lives? All men are created equal, but some men are created more equal? Is this about those whom you are holding up to us as examples, or your frustration that you are not being recognised by those around you for your obvious above average talents?
When you have to tell people to respect another person because you are of the point of view that person is worthy of adulation, what happens to letting that persons work attract the praise on it's own merits? This thread almost crossed the line of telling the uninitiated that they are cultural and creative rubes for not recognising Mr. Thompson's contributions to the 100 literary great works of history.
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Originally posted by bustr
Dok,
Be carefull, by this definition it is almost advocating a superior class of human being to whom the rest of us less creative are supposed to....(recognise)(worship)(give special consideration)? Does this mean the rest of us do not have valuble and creative lives? All men are created equal, but some men are created more equal? ...
No ... you took it the wrong way. And slinging this back to the original drift, if you look at most of the people labeled as "genius" through history - most of them were terribly unhappy. And, as has been posted, many committed suicide. If you added in the number who drank (or drugged) themselves to death throughout history, the toll would be even worse.
I don't see an elite class here at all. I see nature's checks and balances at work. People with heightened creative drives are also burdened with depression and possibly a lack of the kind of fortitude needed to deal with their unhappiness.
One of the interesting comments I read in the wake of HST's demise was how he was always fascinated to talk to anyone who thougt his writing was any good. So many people thought he was a great writer, but it seemed like he could never enjoy or appreciate his own gift.
I wouldn't say such people need to be revered - but what they are capable of should be respected, and what they pay for that gift should be accepted.
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Dok,
Cool, there was a bit of a slide. Yes history has taught us that those on the right hand extream of the IQ bell curve have given something up for the gift that keeps the rest of us sane. I have a nephew who ended up teaching his Calculus 101 class in college because he was bord and his teacher could not keep up with him.
He sees and communicates the world in math and gets impatient with his instructors. The DoD, Boeing, and a number of universities are trying to recruit him full time. I think he is at Penn state but wants to go into the private sector now. His biggest complaint is that people cannot keep up with him or understand him. Just means he either learns to live in this world or finds some nice institution that wants what he has and keeps him in toys.
Extream genius is not a survival trait. The human race would still have gotten here regardless if they had ever been born. Their contributions are incredable, but commiting suicied is not something to hold up to our children as a successful role model for life. The majority who will carry on our species fall to the middel of the bell cure and need help and guidence to carry this species on.
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Just an anecdote...
I got this extreme panic attack once while in NYC.... it came outta nowhere... right in the middle of Penn Station. I couldn't leave my apartment for over a week. I finally made an appointment with a psychiatrist. While taking my blood pressure etc., she asked me what I did. I told her, and she goes "Yup, 90% of the people I see with this are writers, producers, actors, etc."
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this is funny.. bustr nailed it... there now I have supported my position by using someone else... that make me creative too?
I never said everyone was creative I said that most people are creative in their own way. I also agree that there is an IQ bell curve that may or may not have to do with being creative.
the deaf on, 88 believes that I am talking soley about suicide. I believer that there are indeed reasons for suicide... just not hunters. We went from an aching back to the fact that he is one of the elite creative people and therefore immune to normal human behavior... way too complex a man for MOST of us mortals to understand.
he came upon a clever way to put people down because he was a mean spirited druggie and when it was praised as being new and fresh he immediately begand to mass produce it and everything he ever wrote after that was the same.
the only "culture" that he is an icon too is the drug culture or the suicide culture.
Some of the best and brightest were druggies and drunks... not all creative people deal with depression like hunter. In fact... very few do.. the list 88 showed was very small in the sceme of things and some were not even suicides or... were probly justifieable.
oh... and so far as a tribute goes... I don't think it is ever a good idea to glosrify wussy suicide.
lazs