Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: AKFokerFoder+ on February 22, 2005, 08:24:54 PM
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I am looking for a ride to replace the 190A8 I used to fly.
I want a package that has a somewhat high eny, so I can fly it all the time rather than have to switch when numbers get skewed. I believe that it is better to fly a lesser plane to it's envelop than to fly several better planes in a mediocre manner.
I was hoping for something that is a bit faster on the deck than the A8. The old days of people thinking that you are in a Dora and breaking off pursuit are over with the new icon system. Also, there seems to be some talk that HT is going to change the FM’s for the 190’s using what is suppose to be more accurate data.
Below is a post from the General Forum:
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=143405&pagenumber=2 (http://)
Originally posted by Wilbus
As for the 190's getting tuned up, don't get your hopes up. As to my undertstaning Pyro has said he will remodell them after LW charts (if I remember correct). This doesn't mean they will be improved though, just different. Much depends on what charts will be used but Pyro said that many of the charts he's got show the planes inferior (or atleast worse) then what we have now.
Before I had to take a paus from AH, shortly after 2.0 was released, I found the 190's to be quite different from AH 1.x. Infact, for the first time in AH I felt they were real competative planes, closer to what many 190 pilots said they were.
I am not a LW or even a WWII buff (I am a WW1 buff). So I don’t know much other than what I have read on these BBS’s about plane performance. Anyway, the point of all of this is that it does not seem to wise to spend time learning any new plane who’s FM is about to be changed in sometime in the foggy future.
So I am looking for a dive, slash and run type of plane like the A8, but a bit faster on the deck. I would like cannons, but the 8 gun package of the Jug should pack enough punch for fighters even if it is a bit light for bombers. I used to use the 4 -20m package of the A8, and it could do a lot of damage in short order. Typhies’ Hizookas are I think without question a premiere guns package.
Another thought is maybe the C205? It is a good diver, and if a LA7 trys to run you down (with obligatory several buddies following), you could at least kill one or two of the bastages before they get you.
I tried the Dora a bit, but I can’t seem to hit anything with it, and it is way more powerful than I am used to. Nice plane, climbs like a bottle rocket, fast in dive or on the deck. But I just can’t seem to come up with a killing shot. And the night before last (my first night in a Dora) I got 3 kills and died twice, once by blacking out and augered in, once by a 800 yard pilot wound as I was getting ready to dive on a LA7 I was trying to rope . Last night I got frustrated, and did a really dumb thing. And I died for my stupidity, I was only 1 for 1. I logged off in frustration. I mus have made 40 or more passes that would have been good killing oportunities in a A8 and never got a ping.
The LA7 is way out of the question. It would be a embarrassment to have to fly such and uber plane in order to get kills. I am far from being a good pilot, but I am good enough not to need a LA7 to get kills.
The Pony D is too uber, even with the weak 6 50 cal package.
So, I am looking for a decent ride where if you land a 3 kill sortie, you feel that it was do somewhat to your skill and not just your ride.
But... I want to land the vast majority of my sorties.
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The -1 hog is the plane for you:).....come see me, we have a few closeouts left on the lot.:)
Seriously it has the roll rate your used to combined with better handling than the typhie or jug....especially at higher speeds with a notch...the D11 jug probably is its equal near stall ...but nobody has the Ace kicker cept the hog....
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Yep, either of the 50cal armed Corsairs would do the trick for you.
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Thanks for the replies :)
If I remember right the -1 Hog has a really screwed looking canopy, and the -D is a bit heavier and slower on the deck?
Niether one seems to have good rear views. The 190's have really good view of the six as does the LA7, Pony and Jug.
Still as an X-Mo-reen, from way back when, a Hog would be a sentimental ride.
I need to check the K/D on the Hog, if it is low enough, it may be worth a shot, Gonna miss the firepower of my A8 though :)
It was a damn sweet ride :aok
BTW does anyone know how to get to the plane performance pages of AH? I can't seem to find the link on the AH webpage :(
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Try the Ki-84-Ia... it's a Fw190A that can turn like a Spit. :) The speed performance is quite competitive, but not like any of the real MA 'dragster' planes, topping out at 344mph at deck, comparable to the Yak-9U or the La-5FN.
Limited armament, but got enough maneuverability to make it count, and the roll performance is quite above average at all speeds. The largest drawback is the stiff controls at high speeds, but that can be compensated easily enough by flying with neutral elev. trim.
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Problem with the 84 is he wants a ride with a high ENY.
Foder, if you care about the flying, not the perks, give the 84 a chance. It's a sublime E fighter, and when bounced you can shrug it off with evasives until you're Co-E. Not to mention the great range and supersweet WEP recharge.
I'll shut up before this turns into a Ki84 4EVA! manifesto.
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I think the Corsair rear views are fine. The problem for me is the upper back view in the 1D which is blocked by the triangular overhead armor.. GRRR, I hate that thing.. :)
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My suggestions:
F4U-1 - Poor acceleration and climb, but great at high speed, high roll rate. Superior rudder. Best flaps after P-38. Owns the P-51 in a stall fight. A 190A-5 or A-8 can't hope to shake it off its six. Fast on the deck (as fast or faster than La-5FN). Excellent zoom climb. Never fly with more than 50% gas internally. Take a drop tank for longer flights. Tricky to land. Always plant the tailwheel on landing. Best to stall it onto runway. Otherwise, prone to ground looping.
P-47 (any model) For very good vertical performance, try the -40. For best turning, try the -11. Like the F4U, take the minimum internal gas and supplement with belly tank. You have a 6 gun, 267 rds/gun ammo option. Taking this really does help performance, but if you take just six guns you lose a lot of hitting power and the small ammo load doesn't give you any ammo to waste. Decent rudder, good flaps, very stable right down to stall speed. Average acceleration for -40, below average for D-11. Keep it fast around turn fighters, but don't hesitate to turn for a bit. Just learn when it's time to jump out and get some lateral seperation. Up above 25k, it is probably the best fighter in the game. Down on the deck, you need to use good SA and always have an egress route in mind. With full flaps out the Jug will maneuver far better than most would ever expect.
Ki-61: Poor acceleration and climb. However, excellent high-speed handling and pretty good turning down to 150 mph. Below 150 it tends to wallow. Good range. Average rudder. Excellent guns. Get some alt (10-15k), and use its great high-speed dive to chase down the speed demons. Same ammo load as a SpitIX, but the cannons cycle faster, meaning the guns will be empty sooner. Cannons are Japanese version of German MG151. Max speed is under 370 mph level. It will out-run Spits and Zeros on the deck given a Co-E start. Not especially stable at low speeds. Not a good stall-fighter, only average at best. Manage your E and this is a rewarding aircraft.
F6F-5: Does everything well, if not the best in any category. Turns well, but the flaps are not nearly as effective as the F4U. Average stall fighter. One of the best at 200-250 mph. Average rudder, average roll rate. Hides E better than any other fighter. Very good zoom climb and dive acceleration. Quite durable. Same guns as P-51D. Same bomb and rocket load as P-51D. Average outward visibility. Poor to rear, very good over the nose. Somewhat prone to ground looping, Get the tail down fast when landing. Not very fast on deck (about 320 mph). Overall, a very balanced if not very fast fighter.
La-5FN: Everything the La-7 is, but slower. Only two cannon, but two is enough once you learn the ballistics. Excellent climb, great ailerons, but average rudder. Short legs, small bomb load. Great defensive fighter, inferior to only its younger brother. Doesn't carry the dweeb label of La-7.
Yak-9T: Inferior to 9U in every flight category, but still capable of holding its own. 37mm cannon is a one ping wonder. With just 32 cannon rounds, you must learn to be efficient. one MG supplements the big cannon. Kills soft skin GVs with single hit. Tears buffs to shreds. Similar low-level performance to F6F-5. Poor stability below 150 mph, lousy choice for stall fighting. Challenging to survive in, but equally rewarding when used well.
My regards,
Widewing
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Views in the F4u specially the 1D, C and U4 can be set-up great, even the upper six view which grunherz talk about is no problem (see only very little overhead armor, nothing to disturb)
The tiffie, sure it's fast but is it any fun to fly? No, I wouldn't say so, it's uber when it comes to everything except for roll rate.
like I just said in the other thread... the Jug would be my choice. The D40 is the fastest but also the worst turner, it doesn't quite turn with a pony but almost, the combat flaps are just amazing on the plane, gun package and the pure number of bullets the plane hold make it a plane to stay up for a long time in and get many many kills. It is, I have to admit, one of my favorite planes, the 50 cals are also very easy to hit with.
The D11 is the best turner of them but also a bit worse view from the cockpit. Anyone who sees a P47 in the air expect they will be easy kills, don't be fooled though, I've outturned spit 9's in the Jug 11 without much trouble, great turner, not as good as the spit of course but when used right it will be leathal even in a turnfight.
The F4u's, as recomended above, are great aswell, 1D being my favorite. It doesn't turn as good as the P47, nor is it as forgivving, but just like the Jug it is deadly when handled right.
Corsair or Thunderbolt? Matter of taste, both are great when flown the right way and both take time to learn to fly the right way, give em both a chance. The tiffie is the easiest of these planes IMO and the most boring to fly, fast, poor roll rate, OK turnrate (a bit better then the 190 A5) and superb cannons.
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If you fly the way you say, you want to hit and run - forget jugs and hogs (as much as they are great planes to fly) you will be disappointed with the speed and lack of cannon (one pass kills)
Stick with the 190 series , still the best option to hit and run. Cannons , speed what else do you want ?
Fly the a5/a8 when ENY is a factor , and D when it's not.
This is all about the icon thing - you are making a mountain out of a molehill .I never knew which 190 I was up against and to be honest , I never cared , the performance difference isn't enough to cause any difference in strategy, either flying them , or flying against them.
Edit- thinking about it , the typhie is much more an option for your style of flying than either the Jug or the Hog. Give it a try.
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C205 is verry good... i flew it for a while and it has good climb and is great in dives. I have no hard data but i think it keeps speed good on a straight extension after a dive, deceleration to top speed is gentle.
As long as you dont get cought in slow turn fights its great, and 500 rounds of canon are a lot of ammo.
The downside is it has no option for a droptank and small fuel load. So range is not to good.
F4U1 1c 1d are nice but i have no idea how to fly em... verry good in dive attacks and slashes, but when your not carefull and run out of e then its hard. The good thing is you can take up a C hog with nearly the same flying characteristic than the other two and 4 cannons when you need the extra power.
P47 is good but i found the D11 the best fighter and it has awfull views. D25 is a good fighter but i think the D40 is more suited for ground attack.
Of course an expert pilot can make a lot out of a D40, have to use the wight to your advantage.
F6F is to slow to be able to run.
Most times i fly there is always a la7 or 190d or p51 around that try to run you down, so escaping with speed on the deck is hard.I think if you want to make a save way out in other planes than the speed demons need to think of 10k deck and let the others slug it out down low.
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Originally posted by humble
The -1 hog is the plane for you:).....come see me, we have a few closeouts left on the lot.:)
Seriously it has the roll rate your used to combined with better handling than the typhie or jug....especially at higher speeds with a notch...the D11 jug probably is its equal near stall ...but nobody has the Ace kicker cept the hog....
...beat me to it....the birdcage is the perfect ride for ya, just don't get discouraged if you don't do well at first...trust me, it's worth the time to learn this bird! Aside from firepower, it outperforms the A8 in all categories other than roll...and I think its a dead heat in that area as well....
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P38G
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Originally posted by Red Tail 444
Aside from firepower, it outperforms the A8 in all categories other than roll...and I think its a dead heat in that area as well....
Haven't flown one in a while, but from what I remember, it doesn't come close to the a5 in terms of accel or climb. Doesn't the a8 have a slightly stronger engine?
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AKFokerFoder+,
I'll second Kweassa, give the Ki-84 a shot. It's speed is in the 190A's ballpark at lower alts and it's got the firepower to do the job. Just make sure not to use combat trim, if you still do. The Ki-84's unique WEP, high manuverability and great climb make it very potent. The cannon rounds do go very fast though, as they have the highest RoF of any twin 20mm installation in AH. As to it's low ENY, that won't survive the next revamp of the ENY values, the Ki-84 is way down the list of flown fighters.
Widewing,
The Ki-61-I-Tei (and the Ki-84) are armed with Ho-5 20mm cannons, not related to the MG151/20 at all. Their lineage is from the Browning .50 (as is the 12.7mm Ho-103 carried by both those fighters). The Japanese lightened it and scaled it up, which gives the final gun a very good RoF (highest for a 20mm in AH) and, even with the 1945 derated versions, a decent muzzlevelocity.
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Lots of great replies, thank you :)
I only had time for 1 sortie last night, so I took up a D Hog, and tried to defend 199.
I shot down a B24, although I seldom shoot bombers, but this was too good a set up.
Several other scraps followed with no results one way or the other. I had a couple of obligatory chases by LA7's but they are fairly easy to dodge in a turner like the Hog, gotta love those flaps, of course you then have to get alt back. Then I was about 10k and a SpitV dived on me he was about 2 k or so back, he followed me to the deck as I hit max speed on the Hog, (whatever that is), I thought my wings were going to rip off from the creaking and I darn near augered from the compression, I pulled out with about 50 ft to spare, and the SpitV was now D400, his SpitV5 icon was lit, and he was behind me and still gaining! I pulled up and took a slight blackout, and hit for the sky, figuring he shouldn't retain e like the hog. I wasn't to confident, I didn't know a Spit5 could outdive a Hog. Anyway I think he lost me in the blackout, as he broke off.
I got back to about 8-9K when I saw this 190 running on the deck, I dove down and gave a lot longer chase than I usually do, maybe 80 or so seconds. I was just going to pull off, as I figured he was in a Dora, and I was almost out of steam. Then the 198A8 icon appeared, I drooled as I though "hell, I think I can run him down! I shot him up at D400, and he went kaa-boom as he crashed :)
Poor Bastage, I almost felt sorry for him, but that is probably just because the Dr just changed my nedication.
By then I was short on fuel, and rtb'd. Somewhat content, as a 2 kill sortie is about what I look for. As I have often said, I suck as a pilot, but I am a decent hunter :)
The Ki84 sounds cool, it is certainly worth taking up for a spin or two.
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I would go with the 205. True it has no DT, but during climb out, there is no reason you can't run on normal power instead of full power. With a slight reduction in Manifold and RPM, it has good legs. Gun package is outrageous. I liken it to a hybrid of the Pony and Spit9. Not quite as fast nor tight a turner, but the best of the two worlds combined. Its major drawback is it's visability. But with some creative head placement adjustments and seat time, you can over come this.
By far, the most underrated plane in the game.
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Once you get used to the Hog...you'll find you can do everything you could in a 190....+ you have both the benifit of combat flap. Once you get a bit more comfortable then you can start playing with your gear...
As for the other planes....
Ki-84...amazing speed off the dive...it'll run down almost anything...and pop its wings if your not careful...a great plane to E fight.
Ki-61...best plane in the game...it'll be whatever you want it to be. Deadly, responsive, no vices...right up till the moment your E goes completely.
C 205...almost as good as the Ki-61...has more power but has worse vis...isnt quite as good in a phonebooth but has a better vertical game. Just isnt quite as docile...that combined with worse vis but it a bit behind
none of them have the combination of factors requested though...
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I flew the C Hog almost exclusively the first time I was in Aces High. Then they perked it, so I tried the D Hog. I eventually figured I needed a break from the game, so I took about 2 years off.
The Hog can to amazing things in the hands of a good stick. But certainly I am not a very good stick. But being able to deploy flaps at very high speeds, and also kick your gear down, really forces an overshoot quickly. Nothing worse than diving on a hog in and A8 just to see the flaps and wheels come down. I break vertical imediately, and if possible, dive again, or just get out of Dodge and get my alt back :)
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Oh yeah.. humble reminds me. The Ki-84-Ia is structurally frail at really high speeds. When the plane hits over 500mph, something will break off.. one of the ailerons, both of them, or the rudder, or in some cases, all of them.
The plane itself is a pretty good diver, but too much high speed hurts the Ki - literally.
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Originally posted by Engine
Haven't flown one in a while, but from what I remember, it doesn't come close to the a5 in terms of accel or climb. Doesn't the a8 have a slightly stronger engine?
Sorry, I was referring to the A8. The A5 is a better turner since it also has a lighter ammo load, but all the A series rides have pretty nasty low speed stall characteristics in turning situations.
I do believe you are correct about the A5 in ROC and Accel, andI don't know enough to challenge you on your experience in the A5. Thanks for the info.
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Well, if you are looking for an overall superior ride to your old A8, I'd join the chorus and say go with the Ki-84.
However, what makes it superior is it has all the "E-fighting" performance but with the added bonus that it is an outstanding turn-fighter as well.
For your "flying style" (which IIRC is more BnZ, followed by run if you are at a disadvantage) the Ki-84 is not a very good fit. To really get the Ki-84 to shine as a turn-fighter (hell, as a fighter period imo), you need to get slow. It is a very docile airplane, as long as you have an initial alt advantage and you are careful to keep herding people you can stay above a gaggle of plane almost indefinately and still stay pretty slow.
If you prefer a faster type of plane, I'd definately say go with the Typhoon. It has better acceleration than the A-8, turns better, and packs much better guns. It rolls like a 500 lb woman though, so you won't be making many snappy evasives in it.
Hell, you've got all the time in the world, try em both out and see what suits ya.
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I have to say stick with the F4U-1D. I feel your pain of wanting those cannons, but if you keep your convergence set low those 6 .50's are lethal. The biggest reason I have drifted into the Hog lately is it's flexibility. Not that I havent always respected what one can do, but the more I fly it the more I find it's perfect for me. It can mix it up on the deck in a TnB (although not forever, but the initial turn rate is amazing, esp. with the maneuvering flaps engaged), you know it will be available whether taking off from a base or a CV, and the range of available hardware for loadouts is equalled only by the Jug, Pony and the P-38. Its an excellent jabo ride, tough, fast, good range, and shreds targets within your convergence setting.
While the Jug wants to be flown more like the FW you are used to, it outclasses any FW as currently modelled. The Hog is similar, but will give you even more range to your tactics. I certainly dont claim to be a master of either one, but I think if you give the Hog a fair try you wont want anything else.