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General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Knite on February 23, 2005, 10:02:08 AM

Title: B-24 Moby Dick 41-24047 90th BG/320th BS
Post by: Knite on February 23, 2005, 10:02:08 AM
Hi all,

As always, asking for advice. Greebo, I tried to check to see if you had done this, and while I saw references to the group/squadron, I didn't see if you ever did this one or not.

If anyone has done this one already, that I can't find, please accept my apologies.
If not, any and all advice is welcome =)
The coloration has been tricky because of B&W footage, but I found paintings and models of this aircraft that show the same coloration I've used here so I'm fairly sure I'm ok.
I still have some details yet to add, like miscolored panels and such, but this is the gist.


(http://www.90thbombgroup.org/MobyDickSqeb.jpg)

(http://syn_knite.home.mindspring.com/aceshigh/screenshots/moby1-1.jpg)

(http://syn_knite.home.mindspring.com/aceshigh/screenshots/moby1-2.jpg)
Title: B-24 Moby Dick 41-24047 90th BG/320th BS
Post by: rogerdee on February 23, 2005, 10:24:10 AM
looking very good i  not figured out how to chnge the shiny bit on  b24s yet  so your ahead of me .

by the way can you change the b17  from being shiny  in olove drab?
keep up the good work

rogerdee
Title: B-24 Moby Dick 41-24047 90th BG/320th BS
Post by: Wolf14 on February 23, 2005, 10:32:38 AM
The black and whites dont show any light unders of the engine cowlings. I always thought Moby was all olive.

:)
Title: B-24 Moby Dick 41-24047 90th BG/320th BS
Post by: Knite on February 23, 2005, 11:10:36 AM
I'm not entirely sure wolf.

Looking at this picture
(http://www.90thbombgroup.org/mobyfly.jpg)

and this one
(http://www.b24bestweb.com/images/B24/MOBYDICK1.JPG)

If you look very very closely, you CAN see a shade differentiation on the underside of the engines. I think in a lot of pictures this is lost because of shadowing. However, these two pictures appear to be of a different B24 model, even though it shares the same markings, squadron, and number of the one I included in the top post.

Maybe I'm wrong =)
Title: B-24 Moby Dick 41-24047 90th BG/320th BS
Post by: Knite on February 23, 2005, 11:14:36 AM
Rogerdee...

You need to look for a file in the same skin folder as your skin. The file name is material.txt

edit it.

it has 4 main lines. This is what I BELEIVE they mean

Ambient - Overall aircraft lighting
Diffuse - The transition lighting between the Ambient and Specular.
Emissive - This is the light the plane gives off?
Specular - The "shinyness" of the aircraft.

Now, you'll notice there's 3 sets of numbers for each one....
0.xxx

These numbers go from 0.000 to 0.999
(I think)

The lower the number, the less light. The 3 sets stand for the Red, Green, and Blue color spectrums, for example

This
0.900, 0.000, 0.000, specular
would mean the plane would have a bright red shine

Here's what I use for my B24s

0.375,0.375,0.375,Ambient
0.500,0.500,0.500,Diffuse
0.000,0.000,0.000,Emissive
0.220,0.220,0.220,Specular
8.200,Power


Hope that helps
Title: B-24 Moby Dick 41-24047 90th BG/320th BS
Post by: Wolf14 on February 23, 2005, 11:51:21 AM
ok I can see a slight difference but what I am noticing is that the lighter color is showing in the bottom 1/4 area. Yours is starting above the 1/2 area.

Wish folks back then would have known we'd want to model their airplanes for an airplane game and would have taken better pictures for yall skinners to reference.
Title: B-24 Moby Dick 41-24047 90th BG/320th BS
Post by: oboe on February 23, 2005, 12:39:56 PM
Hi Knite - looking good.   Not sure, but the color looks a little dark to me - have you checked out the reference colors at Skinner's Heaven (http://www.skinnersheaven.com) ?

Also I think the top color extends down further on the engine nacelles, and ends in a wavy, sprayed out rather than a straight line.   Same is probably true of the top color on the fuselage where it meets the bottom color - I don't think this edge was masked for a sharp border...
Title: B-24 Moby Dick 41-24047 90th BG/320th BS
Post by: Greebo on February 23, 2005, 12:55:10 PM
That's a better looking plane than the Bar K imo, nice work on it.

I was looking at doing this 90th BG Liberator at one point, but I couldn't find any other info on it (tailcodes etc.) so I gave up and did the Bar K.

(http://www.b24bestweb.com/images/B24/ASNAPPINNABITIN2.JPG)
 

BTW Knite, may I ask what sources you get your pictures from?
Title: B-24 Moby Dick 41-24047 90th BG/320th BS
Post by: Knite on February 23, 2005, 01:02:46 PM
Sure Greebo.

I normally get a good start by going here

http://www.b24bestweb.com/
Has a LOT of pictures of B24s. Mainly nose art.

However, for Moby Dick, I found a webpage specifically for the 90th...

http://www.90thbombgroup.org/

I also will sometimes look for pictures of models or paintings to get an idea of coloration and such.. for example, the model here...
http://www.us-aircraft.com/b-24gal.htm

Oboe : Are you saying that basically the paint scheme is right, but it's more of a fade from grey to green? As far as the paint coloration, I'll check skinners heaven. So far I've generally been going by paint codes based on CMYK for design, and not RGB for skinning, so I'm sure the "heaven" would be a help =)

Strange part is, I know I've looked on that website a million times and don't remember color swatches. oh well. lol
Title: B-24 Moby Dick 41-24047 90th BG/320th BS
Post by: oboe on February 23, 2005, 01:24:41 PM
Hi Knite,

I think your scheme is basically correct - I just can't tell for sure from the b & w photos.    It's possible that your dk green is correct, but needs to be lightened due to weathereing and sun fading effects.    

I most all cases I've seen though, where the top green color intersects with the bottom grey, it's just an unmasked spray paint border, rather than a straight hard edge as you have.   And it looks to me like the green could be extended downward a little more on the engine nacelles.

Love that scheme though!
Title: B-24 Moby Dick 41-24047 90th BG/320th BS
Post by: Knite on February 23, 2005, 01:40:16 PM
Heya Oboe,

I appreciate the help =)
I'm going to see what I can do as soon as I can.
Title: B-24 Moby Dick 41-24047 90th BG/320th BS
Post by: oboe on February 23, 2005, 02:48:01 PM
Don't keep us waiting long! :)
Title: B-24 Moby Dick 41-24047 90th BG/320th BS
Post by: Guppy35 on February 23, 2005, 03:41:09 PM
Going along with oboe's comment on lightening the top green.  The OD on the combatbirds seemed to weather and lighten fairly quickly, in particular in the Pacific.

I tried to find a photo of a Lib to illustrate the point.  This was the best I could do in terms of color.  It's lighter and almost a brown tint to the OD.

Dan/Slack
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/810_1109194759_libcolor.jpg)
Title: B-24 Moby Dick 41-24047 90th BG/320th BS
Post by: Knite on February 23, 2005, 04:25:55 PM
What you're saying makes a lot of sense.

Even back when I started Chief Wapello, I just couldn't figure out why the plane always looked dark, even though I was using colors straight from palette websites. All of the websites were pretty close in color, but still looked too dark. Now I know.

=)
Title: B-24 Moby Dick 41-24047 90th BG/320th BS
Post by: SELECTOR on February 23, 2005, 06:55:16 PM
us had 2 colours called olive drab...also ww2 colour pics do tint to orange over the years..i think the current OD colour the american planes use is prob close enough to ww2
Title: B-24 Moby Dick 41-24047 90th BG/320th BS
Post by: Knite on February 27, 2005, 12:33:55 PM
Alright, here's my newest set of screenshots. =)

Any advice? I tried to lighten up the coloration and change the "hard change" between the green and grey to a much softer, and also much more "hand painted" look. I also made a few other changes you may or may not see.

Anything else you guys think I'd need to make it accurate enough to fly?

(http://syn_knite.home.mindspring.com/aceshigh/screenshots/moby2-1.jpg)

(http://syn_knite.home.mindspring.com/aceshigh/screenshots/moby2-3.jpg)

(http://syn_knite.home.mindspring.com/aceshigh/screenshots/moby2-2.jpg)
Title: B-24 Moby Dick 41-24047 90th BG/320th BS
Post by: Guppy35 on February 27, 2005, 01:20:50 PM
I'd suggest taking the black de-icer boots off the leading edges of the wing if you can.  From the photos it seems clear the original bird didn't have them on.

They were often taken off.

The camo looks great the way you weathered it and faded it :)

Very very nice work

Dan/Slack
Title: B-24 Moby Dick 41-24047 90th BG/320th BS
Post by: Cobra412 on February 27, 2005, 02:58:05 PM
Guppy it seems that in atleast 2 out of the 4 photos that have been posted it did have them.  1 of the 4 you just can't tell because the engine cowlings are in the way.  The other one clearly shows it without them.  The first and fourth photo posted of the original bird you can see the boots.
Title: B-24 Moby Dick 41-24047 90th BG/320th BS
Post by: thebest1 on February 27, 2005, 04:45:56 PM
to me the olive drab looks alil too green try this web sight for all your colors http://www.skinnersheaven.com/
Title: B-24 Moby Dick 41-24047 90th BG/320th BS
Post by: Knite on February 27, 2005, 05:00:47 PM
thebest :

You know what I think is happening is..

I DID use the "olive green" from the USA section of Skinner's Heaven. I actually imported it in and used the eyedropper for the color match... lightened it some to be more faded, but that's about it. Is it maybe you object to me using olive green instead of olive drab?

I guess what I mean to be asking is...
is it the lightness/darkness you feel is wrong, or the hue/color?
Title: B-24 Moby Dick 41-24047 90th BG/320th BS
Post by: Knite on March 08, 2005, 04:46:47 PM
Ok,

I took a lot of green saturation out, and changed the weathering on it AGAIN.

Do you all think this looks good enough for submission, or still "off" ??

Thanks as always =)

(http://syn_knite.home.mindspring.com/aceshigh/screenshots/moby3-1.jpg)

(http://syn_knite.home.mindspring.com/aceshigh/screenshots/moby3-2.jpg)
Title: B-24 Moby Dick 41-24047 90th BG/320th BS
Post by: SlapShot on March 08, 2005, 10:30:41 PM
It looks AWESOME Knite !!!
Title: B-24 Moby Dick 41-24047 90th BG/320th BS
Post by: Guppy35 on March 09, 2005, 12:48:24 AM
What Slapshot said.  

Great work :)

Dan
Title: B-24 Moby Dick 41-24047 90th BG/320th BS
Post by: TexMurphy on March 09, 2005, 12:54:27 AM
Looks freekin awsome Knite!!!

Your da 24 Pimp!!
Title: B-24 Moby Dick 41-24047 90th BG/320th BS
Post by: Greebo on March 09, 2005, 06:08:08 AM
It looks really good Knite, go for it.
Title: B-24 Moby Dick 41-24047 90th BG/320th BS
Post by: Stratocaster on March 09, 2005, 07:05:32 AM
SWEET
Title: B-24 Moby Dick 41-24047 90th BG/320th BS
Post by: Knite on March 09, 2005, 07:56:53 AM
Thanks guys =)

I'm going to make a slight tweak to the bottom lip of the shark's mouth (to see if I can eliminate a small bit of banding, which you can see in my 2nd set of pictures. However, I also like the effect that banding makes from the dead 12 angle. So once I work on that and see what I can roll, I'll submit it.

Thanks for all the kind words and hope to see some Moby's in the air soon =)
Title: B-24 Moby Dick 41-24047 90th BG/320th BS
Post by: Engine on March 09, 2005, 08:08:36 AM
Very very good work knite. It's impressive how quickly your skills have grown.
Title: B-24 Moby Dick 41-24047 90th BG/320th BS
Post by: oboe on March 09, 2005, 08:44:47 AM
I'll second Engine's comment.   Good stuff, keep it coming!
Title: B-24 Moby Dick 41-24047 90th BG/320th BS
Post by: nopoop on March 09, 2005, 11:50:58 AM
VERY NICE !! I think ya got a keeper :aok
Title: B-24 Moby Dick 41-24047 90th BG/320th BS
Post by: Engine on March 09, 2005, 01:37:19 PM
Oh by the way, Greebo was doing this one, too, so you may need to trash it. :)
Title: Re: B-24 Moby Dick 41-24047 90th BG/320th BS
Post by: 101ABN on March 10, 2005, 04:43:14 AM
now that is a good skin, cant wait to see it in the game!!


Quote
Originally posted by Knite
Hi all,

As always, asking for advice. Greebo, I tried to check to see if you had done this, and while I saw references to the group/squadron, I didn't see if you ever did this one or not.

If anyone has done this one already, that I can't find, please accept my apologies.
If not, any and all advice is welcome =)
The coloration has been tricky because of B&W footage, but I found paintings and models of this aircraft that show the same coloration I've used here so I'm fairly sure I'm ok.
I still have some details yet to add, like miscolored panels and such, but this is the gist.


(http://www.90thbombgroup.org/MobyDickSqeb.jpg)

(http://syn_knite.home.mindspring.com/aceshigh/screenshots/moby1-1.jpg)

(http://syn_knite.home.mindspring.com/aceshigh/screenshots/moby1-2.jpg)