Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Swoop on February 24, 2005, 12:27:42 PM

Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: Swoop on February 24, 2005, 12:27:42 PM
You're stupid.

yes I know, opening with a flame is not a good idea but hear me out.


I don't get head on'd.

Wanna know why?  

Cos I avoid them.  If I see a plane turning for a head on I'll do a minor barrel roll and avoid it.....and then turn around and attempt to kill the unimaginative git who tried to HO me.  The only time I ever ever get caught in a HO is when it's vertical and I've under-estimated the E level of my opponant (ie, it was a rope attempt that didnt work).  But I view that as my own mistake.

If you're getting HO'd all the time then try avoiding the attempt instead of taking it.

Really.  Try it, it's not hard since no sod who plays this game seems to be able to hit a moving target anyway.

.....'cept me and a few others that is.  If ya see someone trying to avoid the HO aim straight for him and take a shot as he goes past....I do that when it's the other bugger trying to avoid me in the HO.  Works every time in fact.....but no-one seems to be able to hit me when I try to avoid.  Go figure.

(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1081438631_swoop.gif)
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: Furball on February 24, 2005, 12:30:36 PM
Only time it bothers me when you are vastly outnumbered on deck, and one ho's you.  seems pointless.

not you would have experience that mr.swoop, you cherrypicking altmonkey... ;) :D
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: Swoop on February 24, 2005, 12:33:07 PM
If you find yourself in a position where you do not have an overwelming advantage then you didn't plan it right.

:p

(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1081438631_swoop.gif)
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: Furball on February 24, 2005, 12:34:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Swoop
plan


What does that mean?
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: BlauK on February 24, 2005, 12:44:29 PM
I have always wondered... who is the HO'er of the two who meet in a HO?

-The one who points his nose at the enemy first or the other one?

-Or is it just anyone who sees that the situation may lead into a HO pass and still continues towards the enemy?

-Or is it always the one in a more agile plane?

... or is it the guy who whines about others HO'ing him?

... just wondering :)
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: Stang on February 24, 2005, 12:54:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Furball
What does that mean?



Yeah wtf is that?


:D
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: Wilbus on February 24, 2005, 01:02:58 PM
WTFG Swoop! You put my thoughts to writing!

Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: Skuzzy on February 24, 2005, 01:14:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Furball
What does that mean?

I think he mispelled plane, but then again, it could be the British spelling for it.  No,..that ain't it.  No 'u'.  :D
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: mars01 on February 24, 2005, 01:24:54 PM
Quote
Only time it bothers me when you are vastly outnumbered on deck, and one ho's you. seems pointless.
Yep, especially when 3 or 4 or more guys have been working you and some gutless weenie that has to have a kill no matter what nails you in a HO.  Shows complete disrespect for the guys you are flying with and shows you are only out for yourself.

When I see friendlies do that, I don't six call them or shoot guys off their sixes.  They are on their own.  I just sit and watch them die and laugh.:D
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: Guppy35 on February 24, 2005, 01:35:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Furball
Only time it bothers me when you are vastly outnumbered on deck, and one ho's you.  seems pointless.

not you would have experience that mr.swoop, you cherrypicking altmonkey... ;) :D


Yep those are the ones.  You are low and slow turning with a bunch and some guy in an LA7 roars through and shoots you in the face.

I'd think the guys doing all the work would be more frustrated with it then me, thier intended target.

Dan/Slack
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: mechanic on February 24, 2005, 01:48:28 PM
Always expect the HO and feel good that you're already one move ahead of your would-be opponent in the mind game that is dogfighting.
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: dedalos on February 24, 2005, 03:34:03 PM
Hey, its working.  We are not talking about HOs at the merge anymore.  Now lets work on not saying LA7 in every example of bad behavior and include 190s, 110s, Mossies, NIKs, Spits, Tyffies, etc
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: Zaphod on February 24, 2005, 04:22:33 PM
This is a little off topic but.....don't ya just love it when some guy rolls in for the HO on ya when you already have several on you.....and killshoots himself on the guy behind ya?  :)  I've only had it happen a couple times but it was quite funny when it did.  I can imagine the chatter on their country channel following that one lol.

< Thanks for the killshooter ya big weenie!

< Oh ya...well you were trying to steal anyway

blah blah blah


Zaphod
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: straffo on February 24, 2005, 04:32:24 PM
Anyone stupid enought to put his plane in front of either 4 hispano or 2*mg 131/13 + 4 mg 151/20 deserve to be pulverized.

And if he whine it's just a cherry on the cake :D
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: DREDIOCK on February 24, 2005, 05:22:02 PM
Havent we been down this road a couple hundred thousand times already?
LOL
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: debuman on February 24, 2005, 07:28:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by BlauK
I have always wondered... who is the HO'er of the two who meet in a HO?

-The one who points his nose at the enemy first or the other one?

-Or is it just anyone who sees that the situation may lead into a HO pass and still continues towards the enemy?

-Or is it always the one in a more agile plane?

... or is it the guy who whines about others HO'ing him?

... just wondering :)


C'mon - you know the answer to this already.  The HO'er is the one who lived, the HO'ee is the one who died and whines about it on channel 200.
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: 68DevilM on February 24, 2005, 07:51:10 PM
i always get caught up into a hoe because most of the time i go into a fight thinking the other guys gonna try to take the first shot on merge, unless im out gunned of course then ill just get out the way;)
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: tapakeg on February 24, 2005, 08:20:05 PM
A new optimistic approach is, Yes they are reasonably easy to avoid, and you need to expect everyone is going to do it...............and when they do, most of the time they are noobs, and don't have a plan for a second pass.
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: Fariz on February 24, 2005, 10:31:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Swoop
If you find yourself in a position where you do not have an overwelming advantage then you didn't plan it right.



When you plan it, you do not get into situation, when they have overwhelming advantage, so you do not have a chance to shot them all down from the overwhelming disadvantage.

Yeah, Furball, I know what you gonna say, go away =)
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: Wilbus on February 25, 2005, 03:30:31 AM
Quote
Havent we been down this road a couple hundred thousand times already?   LOL


Yup :D
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: BUG_EAF322 on February 25, 2005, 07:41:13 AM
Talkin about  HO is damn boring.
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: Tilt on February 25, 2005, 10:45:11 AM
by definition...............


It takes  two to HO........................... .....always
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: Steve on February 25, 2005, 11:32:43 AM
Quote
It takes two to HO........................... .....always




Blahahahaha!


Idiot!
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: mars01 on February 25, 2005, 11:40:56 AM
Ahh Steve you have a way with words lolh.
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: Tilt on February 25, 2005, 11:58:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Steve
Blahahahaha!


Idiot!



Fool
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: mars01 on February 25, 2005, 12:04:52 PM
Well Tilt you are wrong.

In a 1 vs 1 engagement yeah it take two to ho.

In a 2 or 3 plus Vs 1 engagement you get ho'ed.  

Example, you are manuevering against three other guys, trying not to give any of them an angle to get on your six.  This reduces you options and outs.  Thus as you pull into the closest threat and go past that guy a forth comes flying head  on at you and blasts you in the face, before you have time and or "E" to manuever.

Thus taking only one person to Ho.
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: Steve on February 25, 2005, 12:10:09 PM
Tilt, you're a moron if you truly believe it takes two to HO.


By definition, it takes two to merge.  

It takes only one to attempt an HO.  


Take it!
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: Swoop on February 25, 2005, 12:16:53 PM
Tilt mate, he's right.

But I do feel like I should disagree with him on general principle so.....

Quote
Originally posted by Steve
an HO


It's a HO.

(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1081438631_swoop.gif)
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: Steve on February 25, 2005, 12:24:19 PM
Not for me.  I read that as the acronym.  Thanks for playing though.
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: slimm50 on February 25, 2005, 12:25:33 PM
[whine] The other night  in the H2H Arena I got HO'd by some kid as I was landing (with smoke on) and he was lifting off. [\whine]:mad:
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: Swoop on February 25, 2005, 12:36:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Steve
Not for me.  I read that as the acronym.  


Acronym of Head On?

An head on or a head on?


Yeah yeah I know, an aitch oh.


:)  I'm just being picky for comedy effect mate.  
Don't mean nuthin by it.

(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1081438631_swoop.gif)
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: Despair on February 25, 2005, 12:39:52 PM
The worst thing for me is lag kill on HO when u start a reverse when ur hoer is already behind u and then all of a sudden u get a 1-2 sec delay on their ping on ur wing falls off. I have 220 ping.
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: Tilt on February 25, 2005, 12:52:43 PM
Insults to one side..............


If two  ac are flying toward each other 180 degrees opposed then they are both HO'ing.


If they are not then neither are HO'ing. (even if  one is attempting to)


Ya know its so fundamentally simple.............it does not matter how many are involved in the total combat.

For two ac to meet head to head both have participated in the manouvre............

It may be true that some players seem to actually only want to bring guns "on"  in this way........... however the other player always has the choice to attempt to avoid it.

It takes two to HO............

If every ac in the arena was trying to HO you............ you could if you so wished avoid every attempt......you would of course die anyway from a myriad of shots from various angles.
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: mars01 on February 25, 2005, 12:58:20 PM
Ok Tilt did you not even read my example as well as slimm's.  Both are accurate and happen.  Don't be so afraid to admit you misspoke sheesh.  You'll only garner more respect that way rather then trying to support a flawed satement.
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: SirLoin on February 25, 2005, 12:58:45 PM
I'm trying to get HO's enabled for Sour's Dueling ladder...but seems everyone is afraid of a little old merge with guns hot.
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: simshell on February 25, 2005, 01:17:21 PM
how is it wrong for a heavy fighter armed to the teeth to not HO a more agile less armed fighter?


thats like saying you cant HO zeros in a F4UC :rolleyes:
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: Steve on February 25, 2005, 01:30:01 PM
Quote
If two ac are flying toward each other 180 degrees opposed then they are both HO'ing.



ROFL.  are you really going to pursue this with this line of logic?

By our definition, "our" being this community,    2 AC flying toward each other 180 degrees(or nearly so) opposed is a merge.

An HO occurs when one or both of the merging planes fire(s).  Thus, an HO requires only one plane to fire.  It takes two to merge, one to HO.


Tilt, give it up please, it's embarrassing.
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: Steve on February 25, 2005, 01:42:54 PM
Simshell, I'm not saying it's wrong.  What I am saying is this, using your example:

The zeke and the C hog merge, both choosing to HO

Most common probable result assuming both have ammo and both are reasonably proficient shots:   The Chog destroys the zeke.  The zeke damages the C-hog  to the point where it is not combat effective.

Second most probable outcome:  Mutual  destruction


To me, neither outcome is acceptable
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: stantond on February 25, 2005, 01:58:44 PM
Wow!

What a change in perspective!  Two (or was it three?) years ago Tilt would have won this argument.  In fact, Shane, a bunch of others, and maybe even Steve would have been with him.   From my personal experience, it takes two planes to engage in air combat.  However it only takes one of the two planes to engage in a HO attack.  The "it takes two" statement is like saying all sex is consensual.  

That is not to say that both planes are not participating, but one plane is actively pursuing a HO shot.   Personally, I think AH2 (HiTech, et al) should lower the likely hood of a frontal shot hitting.  But, that aside, there are ways to avoid the HO.  I have talked about them before and they work for me.  I have engaged in HO attacks, but it's always a last resort and usually suicidal for both planes.  




Regards,

Malta
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: SlapShot on February 25, 2005, 02:03:28 PM
Geeesh ... were getting down to semantics here I guess.

Yes it takes two to create a HeadOn merge.

Yes it takes at least one to take the HeadOn shot on a HeadOn merge.

BUT ...

unless there are 2 (count 'em) aircraft involved in a HeadOn merge ... you can't have an HeadOn shot.

If two planes are coming directly at me, I can only get a HeadOn merge and HeadOn shot with only one of them because the 2 planes cannot occupy the same airspace.

Show me the fighter plane that I can get a guns solution on 2 or more planes at the same time during a HeadOn merge and I will have found my new ride.
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: straffo on February 25, 2005, 02:05:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by mars01
Thus as you pull into the closest threat and go past that guy a forth comes flying head  on at you and blasts you in the face, before you have time and or "E" to manuever.

Thus taking only one person to Ho.


Not a HO , it's "fortune de guerre"
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: mars01 on February 25, 2005, 02:05:28 PM
LOL Slap,

An F16 8)

So what are you saying,  It takes two to Ho or not lolh.
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: mars01 on February 25, 2005, 02:08:03 PM
LOL

if "fortune de guerre" means studmuffin.  Then I agree lolhrotffpm.:rofl
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: Tabasco on February 25, 2005, 02:20:08 PM
It was my understanding that a HO takes place when someone FIRES in a head-on situation, not merely two planes flying towards each other.
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: indy007 on February 25, 2005, 02:27:40 PM
When somebody starts to merge nose to nose with me, if I see tracers, they're going to eat cannon fire. If I don't see tracers, maybe they did shoot at me, maybe they didn't... but people without tracers usually aren't your typical noob, and thus, less likely to try for a lame HO. Usually turns out as a good fight.

On the flipside of that, if I have some stupid angled deflection shot that looks like a HO, I'm shooting. If I'm outnumbered and somebody wants to merge nose to nose, I'm shooting first.

It's a realistic game, not real life. I'm happy to play it as it is.
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: Howitzer on February 25, 2005, 02:31:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Fariz
When you plan it, you do not get into situation, when they have overwhelming advantage, so you do not have a chance to shot them all down from the overwhelming disadvantage.

Yeah, Furball, I know what you gonna say, go away =)


LOL

BTW Fariz, I hate your 262.  For some reason I was a magnet for it the other night.  I was going to bring one back to chase you around a little, but I had rudder pedal problems and my brakes were stuck on.  By the time I fixed it, you were gone, I had a headache and figured I had taken enough of a beating for one night anyway   :p      see you up sometime.
Title: Anyone complaining about HOs.......
Post by: JimBear on February 25, 2005, 03:05:39 PM
Would it be fair to say the Thatch Weave was pretty much a Head On Attack?

(http://www.fearsquadron.com/Image5.gif)


And does that get you labeled stupid for using it?