Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Seagoon on February 24, 2005, 03:36:52 PM
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Hi All,
Just wondering if there are any other Pastors or OPC or PCA (conservative evangelical presbyterian denoms.) out there in AH land? Or am I the only one certifiably nuts enough to hang out here?
I pastor a PCA church in Fayetteville, NC:
http://www.providencepca.com
- SEAGOON
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Woody of the Nightmares is a Pastor.
Good stick too.
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Nope I'm a MoooooLah!
:rofl
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I'm a minister in The Universal Life Church (http://www.ulc.org/)
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Doh! And I went and spent $30K and spent 4 years learning Greek, Hebrew, and Systematics.
Silly me.
Got a site for an instant pilots license? I'd like to do that as well.
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Originally posted by Seagoon
Or am I the only one certifiably nuts enough to hang out here?
I pastor a PCA church in Fayetteville, NC:
http://www.providencepca.com
- SEAGOON
Hi Seagoon. :)
Is the second picture on the homepage of your site a Baptism? (sorry for the dumb question, it is just hard to see :confused:)
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But Seagoon: If I sign up for the ULC, then I get to call myself The Reverend Doctor Mosca. I don't think that you have anything else that can compare to that.
The Reverend Doctor Mosca
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Hello Heiliger,
Yes, the second photo is of a Baptism. We actually baptized all 5 kids you see in that photo as their family joined the church. The photo itself is at our old location which we loved but outgrew, the one on the top shows me preaching at our new location. The one at the bottom is from a Friday Kid's Catechism Class at our house.
I'm assuming from your handle you are either Swiss or German, at least in descent. Great Avatar BTW. So quoting Augustine, with that Avatar... Lesee, Reformed? Or some other denom?
- SEAGOON
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Actually, come to think of it, Lutheran would be a better guess, so I'm going to change my answer to that.
Ok, am I close?
- Seagoon
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<-- Lutheran Missoury synod...
that pic looks familiar from school (12 years Lutheran school)
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Just curious how you guys justify playing a game where the primary object is to imitate killing your fellow man.
True you may be paying homage to those planes and guys who really did it but they did it because it was their duty and their job. Not because it was fun.
Im not critisizing you for doing it. Im just curious about your personal justification fo it.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Just curious how you guys justify playing a game where the primary object is to imitate killing your fellow man.
True you may be paying homage to those planes and guys who really did it but they did it because it was their duty and their job. Not because it was fun.
Im not critisizing you for doing it. Im just curious about your personal justification fo it.
Its a GAME
I'm not "Killing anything". Well maybe time I suppose. I'm a christian. I like Poker. I like a Margaritta once in a great while. I enjoy war movies. I enjoy Car racing. I live in a house with out wheels to. Can you imagine that? Nascar and a brick home? really is quite something to see.
Its not the killing of a virtual plane that is what its all about to me. Its the fight if you will between me and the other person. Seeing who will eventually come out on top.
I've used that term tho come to think of it from time to time in the game on VOX. Telling so in so ...."Kill that 190 would ya"? It's simply a metaphore I suppose.
I should also tell you that I onced cussed like a sailor. Not around women , or kids and if I did I always apologised.
Many changes in ME personally have taken place over the last couple of years or so.
This is nothing but a game. I enjoy flying with Buddies from all over the world. We laff , joke and have a great time most times. We agree on somethings and disagree on many others. I listen to em cuss and carry on. I laff at em alot.
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Originally posted by Seagoon
Hello Heiliger,
Yes, the second photo is of a Baptism. We actually baptized all 5 kids you see in that photo as their family joined the church. The photo itself is at our old location which we loved but outgrew, the one on the top shows me preaching at our new location. The one at the bottom is from a Friday Kid's Catechism Class at our house.
Awesome! :aok I thought so, but wanted to ask.
...Actually, come to think of it, Lutheran would be a better guess, so I'm going to change my answer to that.
Ok, am I close?
- Seagoon
Hey not bad! :D Yes I am.
<-- Lutheran Missoury synod...
that pic looks familiar from school (12 years Lutheran school)
Hey JB73. I am Wisconsin Synod. Yeah my avatar pic is "luther's Seal".
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Just curious how you guys justify playing a game where the primary object is to imitate killing your fellow man.
True you may be paying homage to those planes and guys who really did it but they did it because it was their duty and their job. Not because it was fun.
Im not critisizing you for doing it. Im just curious about your personal justification fo it.
Drediock, I shoot planes, I don't shoot chutes. :p
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Just curious how you guys justify playing a game where the primary object is to imitate killing your fellow man.
True you may be paying homage to those planes and guys who really did it but they did it because it was their duty and their job. Not because it was fun.
Im not critisizing you for doing it. Im just curious about your personal justification fo it.
Please tell me your mind does not really work this way.
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by wombatt
Please tell me your mind does not really work this way.
:rolleyes:
Any war game. Including this one the main object is to kill or destroy the enemy. Or gain ground by killing/destroying the enemy.
Thus you are imitating killing other human beings.
You can rationalize it all you want but thats what it is.
I realize its only a game and thats why I play it also.
But.
I can also introduce you to all sorts of clergy types that will never condone or play a game like this for exactly the reasons I described.
Which is why I asked the question.
But to give the answer you really want to hear,
Ultimately it is my goal to own my own plane. Attach a pair of 50 Cal to it then fly around shooting down other planes, make strafing runs on animals, (just to piss PETA off) "toolsheds",fuel refineries, and people running into buildings.
Then I am going to claim my right to bear arms. the victims families can sue Hitech for producing a game that brainwashed me into doing it which will in turn
absolve me of all responsibility of having done so :)
There. Happy now?
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Hi Drediock,
I'm almost loathe to answer this as I've found that it immediately becomes unprofitable, but in keeping with my calling to give an answer in gentleness and respect, and trusting that this wasn't just a shameless troll... ;)
I play this as a wargame, just like I also play Stratego and Risk and so on. I stick to the rules of the game, and try to fly as a Christian man. Without swearing, cheating, getting furious, engaging in lewd discourse or becoming hopelessly addicted (which for Christians are frankly the greater dangers in this or any other on-line experience).
Now, popping up to the higher level question, i.e. Christians and War. The 6th Commandment in the Decalogue is not "Thou Shalt not Kill" in the Hebrew it is "Lo Ratsach" - no murder. This is an important difference, for it allows for the slaughtering of animals for food, and gives the magistrate the power to wage war against evil doers and to use capital punishment (particularly in the case or murder). This is explicitly spelled out in Gen 9:6, and Romans 13:4.
Additionally, the calling of Soldier is an honorable one, and not forbidden to Christians. So for instance in Luke 3 the soldiers who ask John the Baptist "What should we do" are not told to cease being Soldiers, but to cease from being dishonest, likewise Jesus commends a Centurion for his faith in Him in Mark 8:10-12 and states explicitly that he will be in heaven. Peter likewise in Acts 10 visits the house of Cornelius, baptizing him and his family and declaring they have been saved. At no point are these men told, your vocation is absolutely at odds with Christianity as say prostitution or thievery clearly are.
When is a war "just" has been a question of concern to Christian theologians and laymen for centuries, and for instance during the second world war C.S. Lewis did a radio series for the BBC explaining just war theory and why the war against the axis met the criteria. Here is a brief outline of what general rules of just war Christian theologians have distilled from scripture:
1. Just cause. All active aggression is condemned; only a defensive war is legitimate. However, if it is obvious that the other side is clearly preparing for aggression based on solid evidence and past performance a justifiable "first strike" would be allowable.
2. Just intention. The only legitimate intention of a just war is to eventually and, as soon as practicable, secure a just peace. Wars of economic gain, religious expansion/control, revenge, or ideology are unacceptable.
3. Last resort. War can only be begun when all good faith discussions, compromises and negotiations have failed. Again this is hard to gauge if one side is not honestly participating in the effort.
4. Government involvement and formal declaration. This is the action of government not individuals. Some sort of "state of war" must be clearly declared. In this day of terrorist organizations that are not under a government clouds this; states supporting such terrorist organizations would then be held responsible for terrorist acts.
5. Limited objectives. If the purpose of war is ultimately peace, then total destruction of the nation is not just. Only narrow war-fighting objectives that bring the war to a successful conclusion are legitimate. Blanket bombing, gassing, the destruction of a people's way of life is not warranted.
6. Proportional means. This is tied closely to #5, the type of weaponry and tactics employed should be limited to secure the limited objectives (repelling the aggressor, deterring future illegal attacks, removing specific aggressive individuals/groups from power).
7. Protection for non-combatants. Since war fighting is a declared, official act of organized government, only those who are active agents of that government (its fighting soldiers--not POWs, casualties, civilian non-participants) may fight. Others should be protected from aggressive acts of violence.
(These general "just war" guidelines were taken from an article by Arthur F. Holmes, "The Just War," 1981.).
Hope this is of use to someone,
SEAGOON
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Nicely done, Seaoon.
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Great summary, Seagoon.
Drediock --
Would you expect any activity with symbolic violence to be at odds with Christianity?
Chess, with themes of capture, dominance and control? Kids playing captur the flag in the back yard? Bugs Bunny cartoons? Road Runner?
Aces High is a contest of skill and strategy using simulated aircraft. It is not murder, and it is not harmful to others. (especially when I'm doing the virutal aiming, but that's another topic...)
The real issue is not the game, but how we play it. Flaming, ranting, ego tripping = not good. respectful and cooperative play is fine.
In fact, I think most would argue that the hateful man playing chutes and ladders is far less Christian than Seagoon on AH....
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Originally posted by Seagoon
Hi Drediock,
I'm almost loathe to answer this as I've found that it immediately becomes unprofitable, but in keeping with my calling to give an answer in gentleness and respect, and trusting that this wasn't just a shameless troll... ;)
SEAGOON
No troll at all and as I said in my initial post I wasnt critisizing anyone for it.
I mearly wanted to know the reasoning behind it
Your responce was in fact very well put and more in line to what I was hoping to see and there isnt a single point I would dissagree with you on.
Though I do as I have said know quite a few in the clergy and at least 1 Jehovas witness (my uncle) that would never go along with what you said.
Outstanding responce.
And again. No troll I was only curious as to the individual reasoning behind it.
Now if I had said "Red or Reed?"
that would be a troll LOL
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Originally posted by Simaril
Great summary, Seagoon.
Drediock --
Would you expect any activity with symbolic violence to be at odds with Christianity?
Chess, with themes of capture, dominance and control? Kids playing captur the flag in the back yard? Bugs Bunny cartoons? Road Runner?
Aces High is a contest of skill and strategy using simulated aircraft. It is not murder, and it is not harmful to others. (especially when I'm doing the virutal aiming, but that's another topic...)
The real issue is not the game, but how we play it. Flaming, ranting, ego tripping = not good. respectful and cooperative play is fine.
In fact, I think most would argue that the hateful man playing chutes and ladders is far less Christian than Seagoon on AH....
Again I wasnt argueing a point as meaning if your of the cloth you shouldnt be playing.
Just wanted to know the individual point of view.
I know I enjoy a good arguement.
but this time I wasnt arguing :)