Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Saurdaukar on February 24, 2005, 05:29:07 PM
-
No one does anything. Nothing. Not a word, not an action.
Click me (http://wm.gannett.speedera.net/wm.gannett/wkyc/050219pizzaassault.wmv)
§ 9.33. DEFENSE OF THIRD PERSON. A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect a third person if:
(1) under the circumstances as the actor reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.31 or 9.32 in using force or deadly force to protect himself against the unlawful force or unlawful deadly force he reasonably believes
to be threatening the third person he seeks to protect; and
(2) the actor reasonably believes that his intervention is immediately necessary to protect the third person.
You Texan's are getting soft.
-
I'd just as soon not comment.
:mad:
-
...and the guy was already on probation. They should have just shot the piece of ****, and saved the expense of having to try him the next time.
A couple of months back in Portland, three girls got beat up and robbed while waiting for the Max train (mass transit train), also with people standing around and watching. Crazy.
-
Originally posted by Saurdaukar
No one does anything. Nothing. Not a word, not an action.
Click me (http://wm.gannett.speedera.net/wm.gannett/wkyc/050219pizzaassault.wmv)
§ 9.33. DEFENSE OF THIRD PERSON. A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect a third person if:
(1) under the circumstances as the actor reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.31 or 9.32 in using force or deadly force to protect himself against the unlawful force or unlawful deadly force he reasonably believes
to be threatening the third person he seeks to protect; and
(2) the actor reasonably believes that his intervention is immediately necessary to protect the third person.
You Texan's are getting soft.
Reason number 465,003 why I carry.
-
Seven people thumping his head would make him stop and think twice about a repeat performance.
-
This is why I am for concealed hand guns.
But for it to work one of the bystanders would have had to grow some eggs to pull the trigger.
I think that the courts would side with anyone who used deadly force to stop this kind of thing.
being the type of dummy I am I would have stepped in and probably got my butt kicked but I guaranty that I would have popped him a couple of times before he got me.
If just a couple of those spineless turds had of stepped in they could have saved the dude alot of pain.
God I hate bullies.
-
Just standing there watching should be a crime as well.
-
Originally posted by Furious
Just standing there watching should be a crime as well.
In Texas if you have a concealed permit and are armed it IS a crime to do nothing.
If one reads the statute I believe It states this.
I might be wrong but I think this is right.
-
First..., I never go into a Bar if I'm carrying a Firearm. But, for the sake of argument, let's say I had, and was there. I could have pulled it out, fired two rounds, and stopped the attack. (I hope..)
Then, even after the DA agrees that I used 'Justifiable Force' and no charges are filed. I'll still be sued by the family of the Attacker for a 'Zillion Dollars' for Wrongful Death and be forced to spend my life savings to defend myself.
I didn't create our Society...., but I do have to live in it. I'll risk it do defend myself but I'm so sorry that there's not much I can do for you...:(
-
I was in a taco bell in coconut grove eating my lunch, the guy at the next table was doing the same. two medusa headed neighborhood toughs walked in eyed the place, sat at the guys table and took his lunch without a word. I stopped eating as adrenalin rushed. I eyed the medusas steadily. if the white dude had so much as spoken up for himself I would have grabbed the one nearest me by his lockes and snapped his neck. The guy just got up from the table and left the restaurant. unbelievable brazeness and unbelievable cowardice on the part of the white dude. members have repeatedly posted on here about this very illness in America.
-
Originally posted by wombatt
In Texas if you have a concealed permit and are armed it IS a crime to do nothing.
If one reads the statute I believe It states this.
I might be wrong but I think this is right.
Same here. In PA they council you pretty well when you go through this process (at least they did, me... might have been my age - went right after I turned 21). In addition to exercising your "right" to carry a firearm you gain a host of new responsibilities; among them the responsibility to act accordingly in a situation such as this.
Dont know how many other states are like this, though.
-
storch, I think that guy did the right thing.
If he had started a fight with 2 gang members it wouldve ended ugly, not only for him but maybe for others.
a $8 meal is not worth your health or your life.
-
Even if several people intervened at once, that guy was probably big enough to handle several.
If some bystander had a gun, even in classic situation of smaller person needing firearm to deter or defend against larger person, would be vulnerable to excessive force charges.
From size of bystanders seen in the video, dialing 911 seems to have been the logical reaction.
-
Originally posted by OIO
storch, I think that guy did the right thing.
If he had started a fight with 2 gang members it wouldve ended ugly, not only for him but maybe for others.
a $8 meal is not worth your health or your life.
And this is exactly why these azzhat bully types get away with it.
I would venture to guess the white dude was a not very imposing looking guy right?
Lets just say that if the white dude was diesel from the WWF i really doubt anything would have happened LOL.
People today are far to timid for there own good.
There are far many things worse in this world than an *** kicking.
Like being no body's punk and standing up for your self yea yea right i know one might get there clock cleaned but you know what the pride and self esteem you will gain for yourself will be well worth the price IMHO.
But thats just me LOL I got a face full of scares from adopting this
stance.
-
yeah well let's assume there was no camera to film everything.
How could somebody who intervened prove that he wasn't actually attacking a person for no reason? Let's say nobody in that joint agreed to testify.
When I say intervened, I mean, it wouldn't be something like pulling that guy away, cause he's ****ing huge. By intervene I mean hitting him in the back of the head hard enough to knock him out. Or breaking something over his head. Or shooting hom. How else could that behemoth be stopped?
And without witnesses to back you up that qualifies as assault.
Not that I'm saying I wouldn't have done anything, but a lot of people are afraid of being sued.
-
Originally posted by Halo
Even if several people intervened at once, that guy was probably big enough to handle several.
If some bystander had a gun, even in classic situation of smaller person needing firearm to deter or defend against larger person, would be vulnerable to excessive force charges.
From size of bystanders seen in the video, dialing 911 seems to have been the logical reaction.
I cry BULLCHIT on this one.
Look when I was in high school i was 6'4" and about 205lbs.
And the worste *** whooping i ever got was from a guy 5'7" 145lbs.
Size aint all it's cracked up to be a good stab in the eyes would have done wonders to stop this clown right in his tracts.
Simple you cant see you cant fight LOL.
And while he is swinging wildy after you have blinded him a swift knife edge punch to the throat.
You have to develope the attiude that you might get whooped
but you aint gonna go down like a punk!
-
Originally posted by spitfiremkv
yeah well let's assume there was no camera to film everything.
How could somebody who intervened prove that he wasn't actually attacking a person for no reason? Let's say nobody in that joint agreed to testify.
When I say intervened, I mean, it wouldn't be something like pulling that guy away, cause he's ****ing huge. By intervene I mean hitting him in the back of the head hard enough to knock him out. Or breaking something over his head. Or shooting hom. How else could that behemoth be stopped?
And without witnesses to back you up that qualifies as assault.
Not that I'm saying I wouldn't have done anything, but a lot of people are afraid of being sued.
Thats a no brainier.
The cops would look at this clowns record and size.
Then if you have been a good boy the cop looks at your record and see's it's clean.
Sometimes common sense is all we have.
-
Originally posted by Halo
Even if several people intervened at once, that guy was probably big enough to handle several.
If some bystander had a gun, even in classic situation of smaller person needing firearm to deter or defend against larger person, would be vulnerable to excessive force charges.
From size of bystanders seen in the video, dialing 911 seems to have been the logical reaction.
No. the most logical reaction would have been a side kick to the side of the guy's knee. that would have turned him into a 300lb. crying sack of poop. the GF would be seeking dental help 5 minutes after that.
-
Originally posted by storch
No. the most logical reaction would have been a side kick to the side of the guy's knee. that would have turned him into a 300lb. crying sack of poop. the GF would be seeking dental help 5 minutes after that.
LOL you mean she HAD teeth?
Oh and don't forget this part"Jones will spend the next four years in jail"
LOL yeah spending hours apon hours hitting the free weights.
Maybe he will piss off someone and he will get shanked.
-
Not one, but two Intardnet badasses! This thread ROCKS!
-
Originally posted by SOB
Not one, but two Intardnet badasses! This thread ROCKS!
Are you saying that your reaction would be like the victim in this case?
Like I said I HATE a bully and also like I said I have had my butt kicked to many times to remember.
So I am not saying I am Bruce Freekin Lee and would clobber the dude.
What I am saying is that I would not have stood by while this guy is being hammerd.
And no one that I call a MAN would either.
-
Originally posted by OIO
storch, I think that guy did the right thing.
If he had started a fight with 2 gang members it wouldve ended ugly, not only for him but maybe for others.
a $8 meal is not worth your health or your life.
Well that would be a matter of perspective, first off the guy was there eating his lunch quietly by himself. he didn't start a fight. he was successfully intimidated out of his lunch. it's not the $4.95 lunch either it boils down to this, I'm a man. You may take my life from me but you will not take my dignity. I won't allow anyone to take my food or any other thing from me that way. I don't understand any man allowing it to occur to him either.
the guy wasn't small but he was a "suit" probably working at the nearby auto dealerships.
What would it take to make some of you pacifist types stand for yourselves?
Enquiring minds want to know.
-
One of the guys that was there, he and his buddy (the big guy to the reaf of the fighter), was one the radio today. He said hey were so freaked they didn't know what to do, plus it was late and they were half drunk, but the bottom line was, the big bellybutton attacker just scared them.
-
Originally posted by SOB
Not one, but two Intardnet badasses! This thread ROCKS!
I don't consider myself a tough guy/badass but you ain't taking my anything without a struggle.
where am I wrong here?
-
Originally posted by storch
Well that would be a matter of perspective, first off the guy was there eating his lunch quietly by himself. he didn't start a fight. he was successfully intimidated out of his lunch. it's not the $4.95 lunch either it boils down to this, I'm a man. You may take my life from me but you will not take my dignity. I won't allow anyone to take my food or any other thing from me that way. I don't understand any man allowing it to occur to him either.
the guy wasn't small but he was a "suit" probably working at the nearby auto dealerships.
What would it take to make some of you pacifist types stand for yourselves?
Enquiring minds want to know.
Storch If every man was a fighter think about it there would be little or no one on one crime.
But our world is made up of all kinds of folks.
I can't picture old Albert Einstein going postal on some bad guy's *** LOL.
-
Storch I have resited this line many a times before a fight.
Look dude you may very well kick my butt!
But unlike your old lady I don't go down easy so bring a meal this is going to take awhile.
-
Originally posted by Otto
First..., I never go into a Bar if I'm carrying a Firearm. But, for the sake of argument, let's say I had, and was there. I could have pulled it out, fired two rounds, and stopped the attack. (I hope..)
Then, even after the DA agrees that I used 'Justifiable Force' and no charges are filed. I'll still be sued by the family of the Attacker for a 'Zillion Dollars' for Wrongful Death and be forced to spend my life savings to defend myself.
I didn't create our Society...., but I do have to live in it. I'll risk it do defend myself but I'm so sorry that there's not much I can do for you...:(
I agree about the firearm, I don't believe that it would be warranted it that situation. That guy would have dropped like a bad habit with an easy step side kick.
This attitude of not defending yourself and helping out a fellow citizen is the reason why there is no world trade center today and why 10 hadjis killed 3000 people with box cutters.
-
Originally posted by storch
I don't consider myself a tough guy/badass but you ain't taking my anything without a struggle.
where am I wrong here?
The guy in that video didn't even have a chance. He never saw it coming.
A fitting end to that video would be someone shooting the punk.
-
Don't mess with Texas...my ass.
-
Originally posted by wombatt
Thats a no brainier.
The cops would look at this clowns record and size.
Then if you have been a good boy the cop looks at your record and see's it's clean.
Sometimes common sense is all we have.
a lawyer will eat your common sense and spit what's left of you to prison :p
common sense also dictates that coffee is supposed to be served hot, so now they put warnings on cups. :p
-
Originally posted by Saurdaukar
No one does anything. Nothing. Not a word, not an action.
Click me (http://wm.gannett.speedera.net/wm.gannett/wkyc/050219pizzaassault.wmv)
You Texan's are getting soft.
Ahem... they're not Texans. Try Ohio.
Here's the good news. The bellybutton clown got four years and the delicate flower that started the whole thing goes on trial next month.
Linkage (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6995534/)
-
That guys mother should have swallowed him and saved the world some trouble.
-
The punk as you describe him was on probation.
Just gotten out from an unspecified time in lockup. The victom never had a chance. Check the body language on the perp. No one home, the repeated return to assault his victom. Comes from being in lockup for a long time. No telegraphing intent like we socialised citizens do because we really don't want to fight.
In a lockup population you get to business if you are attacking someone. Other wise you are telling your apponent you are afraid. The audience was afraid. If any of them had helped it would have made no difference to the perp. He was already in auto attack mode. His brain was switched off, short of totally destroying his knee or shooting him, he may well have been able to take on the whole store. In the presence of that type of animalistic emotion emination, most civilized citizens freeze up.
Any statements of what you would do in the face of this kind of violence should be your private concern. In any training center for real world combat of this type you are forced to face and accept that these activities will probably kill you or make you a vegetable for life. That animal will give you only those options if you appose him.
-
Originally posted by storch
This attitude of not defending yourself and helping out a fellow citizen is the reason why there is no world trade center today and why 10 hadjis killed 3000 people with box cutters.
Correct. It's a product of the slow but steady systematic demasculation of our society. Would this unfortunate event have ended the same way 50 years ago?
-
What we need is Big Guns Big Guns and bigger Guns then there would be no evil in the world and all the nasty big bullies would run away!
(http://cache.tias.com/stores/metropolis/pictures/gun5.15a.jpg)
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
-
On a more serious note. The guy beating on that chap is an A**hole but I'd be more confident and I bet the bystanders would too over here in UK, of intervening, safe in the knowledge we would be very very unlikely to get blown away in a hail of gunfire! Just an observation.
:aok
-
Zulu, tell us how you would have handled this situation.
-
Originally posted by VOR
Zulu, tell us how you would have handled this situation.
He would have wished he'd had a gun. A big one.
-
Grabbed the guy getting beat on and removed him and me from the situation. If the stupid big guy pursued phone the cops and stand your ground. Sometimes you have to lose a battle to win a war. I have been in similar situation and taken a beating but at least I stood up to the idiot. Unlike those saps in the que. mind you as I said this is the UK and that is the states and there you have guns. The danger is increased.
-
Diablo, clearly there weren't enough cellular phones on hand. Maybe some of those "help me help me!" personal panic alarms would have done the trick? :D
BTW, how ya been lately?
-
This is practically a no-brainer.
People who play video games won't put their VIRTUAL tulips on the line... why in Gods name would you expect people to put their REAL bellybutton on the line stopping Godzilla there?
-
Originally posted by VOR
Diablo, clearly there weren't enough cellular phones on hand. Maybe some of those "help me help me!" personal panic alarms would have done the trick? :D
BTW, how ya been lately?
Heh, wondered if you saw that.
:aok
-
And you? Mr Smart Alec. Ever been in that situation as I have or would you Just stand and watch? I at least can say I have stood up for someone in just such a situation.
I suppose you'd get out the artillery and turn the fight into a shooting incident instead?
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: God give me strength!
-
Disgusting
-
Originally posted by Zulu7
I suppose you'd get out the artillery and turn the fight into a shooting incident instead?
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: God give me strength!
Yep.
-
Then sir you are a fool!
-
storch, I can only tell you that if it was me who had some unknown guy come up and steal my lunch my mind would go:
check1: what is he wearing? (gang or suit/tie or regular street clothes? Do I see anything on him which might indicate he's carrying a weapon?
check2: size him vs me
check3: backup? does he have friends // do I have friends here?
check4: reaction of people around me? (relates to check3)
check5: is that $4 burger really worth the trouble to knock the guy's teeth out?
Most likely i'd just say 'do you mind'? and if the guy gets all tough and vocal I WILL leave... and dial 911.
Those restaurants have cameras..and theft is theft. Even if its something AS stupid as this, if I want my 'ego' satisfied id rather feel good for having caused serious trouble for the one responsible (the lunch-nabber) than to get myself in a situation where I or others can get hurt and where even if I win a physical confrontation its likely id end up with legal troubles.
Then again, theres times when you have to intervene... Id probably wouldve taken something heavy and used it against the big fella in teh video.. then ran for it if I got his attention (hehehe).. or if it was a woman getting assaulted id jump in.
But for a freaking burger? not worth it.
-
Originally posted by Zulu7
Then sir you are a fool!
I'm a fool that wouldn't have been beaten.
-
What did the white guy do to piss off the black guy? sadly there are times when some people need to get the sh*t beaten out of them. Dunno bout this case but the black dude went beyond assault. Beating a man with fists after he is knocked out is attempting to murder by my thinking.
-
ZULU..? This is serious a serious subject. You don't belong here...
-
I LMAO after seeing that! lol
The big guy was probally hungry. Sheesh. Give the man a break.
:rofl
-
Originally posted by Yeager
What did the white guy do to piss off the black guy? sadly there are times when some people need to get the sh*t beaten out of them. Dunno bout this case but the black dude went beyond assault. Beating a man with fists after he is knocked out is attempting to murder by my thinking.
In Maine, too. They convicted some guy in Westbrook of it awhile back.
-
He was standing in line on his phone. The Beast's girlfriend came in the store and passed everyone in line. The victim said something along the lines of "Some lady just passed everybody" to the person he was talking to. The girlfriend gets pissed and goes to get King Kong and the video you saw was a result.
I dont know about you guys but I cant stand the #!#@ that use their beastly significant others to pretty much get and do anything they want. Good riddance she's on trial too.
-
Had those bystanders intervened the news shows would have portrayed a very different story, one of two unfortunate African-American patrons being beset upon by a crowd of angry white men, the video shown on the air would have excluded her initial actions and concentrated on the rush of the bystanders on the pair. Truth be damned, ratings be praised.
I saw the video (minus sound) at work today, the woman turned to the guy on the phone after spitting on the employee and poked him in the face several times.
Ah well, let the lawsuits begin!
-
take self defense lessons.
carry a weapon with you (not necessarily a gun) ,or something innocuos that can be used as a weapon,practice with it as often as possible: try to improve your time of drawing it, precision, drill with it until it becomes second nature to use it when you are attacked.
that big guy would not have acted so tough with a few cuts around the neck, or mace in his eyes, or even a fist with a big ring hitting him square in the temple.
-
Originally posted by Regular
I LMAO after seeing that! lol
The big guy was probally hungry. Sheesh. Give the man a break.
:rofl
So which one were you?
-
I love it.... I'm RedHeaded, German/Irish, 5'5" Retired ABN RCN. I've been in many situations like this and grnn. I'd have joined in after the 2nd punch.
But then again, I like cats.
taste like Chicken.
It is a shame though that no one stepped in.
Did I mention that Arizona has a exposed gun law? You can still carry side arms, belt and holster in public. Makes bad folks think twice of doing wrong in a situation like this.
Mac
-
Originally posted by Halo
Even if several people intervened at once, that guy was probably big enough to handle several.
If some bystander had a gun, even in classic situation of smaller person needing firearm to deter or defend against larger person, would be vulnerable to excessive force charges.
From size of bystanders seen in the video, dialing 911 seems to have been the logical reaction.
His Knees can only take several pounds of pressure to break.
Those people that stood and watched were pu$$ies. I'd have slapped the braod around too, had she spit at me.
Karaya
-
Originally posted by SOB
Not one, but two Intardnet badasses! This thread ROCKS!
Puterman! :D
That guy is BIG... wouldn't like getting a punch from him, let alone 7...
-
To me it looks all planned.... she spits and then heads towards the door.. Big Black Buffoon attacks one guy, nearest the doorway. Hmmmm maybe incase he was retaliated against.
Chicken Nuggets makes a MF'r Brave....
Inside knees woulda been the best shot.
But then again I used to collect stamps....
Mac
-
******s...
-
No doubt I would have stepped in. Granted i'm 6'4" 220lbs, and big guys don't really intimidate me. I've been in that situation, and I have stepped in. What was said about the knees is correct. Big guys like that have bad knees.
In re: to the Taco Bell incident, it's not worth the five bucks.
-
Originally posted by FUNKED1
******s...
Yup.
-
Originally posted by spitfiremkv
take self defense lessons.
carry a weapon with you (not necessarily a gun) ,or something innocuos that can be used as a weapon,practice with it as often as possible: try to improve your time of drawing it, precision, drill with it until it becomes second nature to use it when you are attacked.
that big guy would not have acted so tough with a few cuts around the neck, or mace in his eyes, or even a fist with a big ring hitting him square in the temple.
The only weapon you are sure to have as long as you have breath is your brain. There was nothing in that news clip that I saw that would cause me to shoot that individual. That was purely an assault and battery. it makes no difference how big the guy is. he used no weapon during his assault. this should be viewed as a cautionary tale to the observant, I will be showing it at our dojo later today. perhaps I'm a paranoid but I never get intoxicated and certainly never in public. I don't go into crowds or street festivals. If I'm in line waiting to be attended I make eye contact with everyone within one meter. I constantly glance around and observe people. aside from that everything about my physical being says "don't mess with me" I'm not the kind of person people come and ask directions of. That assailant could have been easily taken down by any two males there without even touching him with their hands. Look at the video again and see how many opportunities for a kick to the knees were presented. the term I was taught for that kick is "yoko fumikomi" he would be down crying like a little girl and no one would even know who kicked him. sadly we have been conditioned to unconditionally defer to blacks and minorities and blacks and minorities have seized upon this fact. Aside from going to jail that assailant needed to have his arse kicked and seen on the news. Not that pathetic display of effiminity that we have seen.
-
Originally posted by Halo
Even if several people intervened at once, that guy was probably big enough to handle several.
If some bystander had a gun, even in classic situation of smaller person needing firearm to deter or defend against larger person, would be vulnerable to excessive force charges.
From size of bystanders seen in the video, dialing 911 seems to have been the logical reaction.
I dunno about this. Don't let the name fool you, I'm 6'3" 300Ibs and if I had 3 avg size guys( let alone 5-6) attack me at once, I'd be hard pressed not to get my butt kicked let alone win. Most I could probably do is hold them off enough to get away and in this case problem solved. Was very shocking to see!
-
Most people aren't violent He-men. Sh|t, most people aren't used to violence *at all.
These people didn't know each other. I'm pretty sure several of them thought 'shpild I intervene? If the others hhelp me, we'll have this guy, no problem.
But how do they know the others will help? They don't.
Big dude, used to violence. Comparatively small onlookers, none of them knowing if they'll get any assistance if they go in. And if statistics are anything to go on, most of them aren't used to violence at all.
Still, this case is pretty clear cut. Yet I don't blame the onlookers for being scared of the situation. Most non violent people would be.
Dying for a €5 pizza is stupid. Expecting everyone to mindread each other and, wordlessly, attack an attacker is not realistic.
Expecting others to have training in violence is presumptous.
There are other ways to prove your 'manhood' than by fighting off whoever you think is challenging it. If you need to do that to preserve your pride, your ego/pride is already pretty badly beaten up to begin with.
Always use your brain. Analyse, conclude, then act. Do not go to prettythangwhooping mode by default in any given situation.
Not going for violence isn't about being a ***** - I do some things that many macho men would be intimidated by. If you wanna show me you're not a *****, do something that potentially can hurt you pretty bad. Then get banged up doing it. Then continue doing it after you've healed up.
-
Just another reason to bring back segregation.... let them beat on each other.
-
Originally posted by spitfiremkv
a lawyer will eat your common sense and spit what's left of you to prison :p
common sense also dictates that coffee is supposed to be served hot, so now they put warnings on cups. :p
Maybe in other parts of the country! But in Texas we do things abit different.
-
What struck me is the owner/operator of the pizza place didnt help. He seemed to have been one of the primary causes of the incident and he didnt help that kid out one bit. Someone shoulda smashed a burning hot pizza on his head then broke his legs.
-
I constantly glance around and observe people. aside from that everything about my physical being says "don't mess with me" I'm not the kind of person people come and ask directions of.
-storch-
I believe this to be the key. If he had better SA he maybe could have at least deflected some of those shots. I carry and I would have not even thought about shooting in that situation. Hard to imagine all those guys watching that and not helping the poor bastich. If I were him, I'd use the tape to get the identities of those that stood and watched and I'd give them a taste of it. Cowards disgust me. wombatt nailed it when he said we're becoming a nation of cowards.
cars
-
the man behind the assailant should have done something about it. he was certainly large enough to have matched him on the pound for pound scale.
what bothers me even more is that in the link to the article that was posted, they wrote that few people helped the guy even after the other guy had left.
probably more concerned with getting back home to watch television.
they should have put him in jail for life, though lord only knows what the woman said the victim did to get him that riled up.
-
OMG I just watched the video. That guy was using a cell phone in an eating establishment, he got what he deserved. I'm sure the people watching were thinking the same thing.
-
Originally posted by AWMac
Did I mention that Arizona has a exposed gun law? You can still carry side arms, belt and holster in public. Makes bad folks think twice of doing wrong in a situation like this.
Mac
Can't you do that in every state? I thought the point of getting a concealed carry permit was so that you didn't have to walk around with you gun in plain view.
-
Santa brings up a good point, most people have never been exposed to violence. And the first time they are, even cops, respond with overwhelming inactivity.
That's why they train swat teams and ninjas to be violent in the assault, throwning things that go boom, cussing and yelling etc. The idea is that the surprise shock and awe will cause everybody to behave like the deer in the headlights, but still be able to follow simple commands.
-
Originally posted by Raider179
What struck me is the owner/operator of the pizza place didnt help. He seemed to have been one of the primary causes of the incident and he didnt help that kid out one bit. Someone shoulda smashed a burning hot pizza on his head then broke his legs.
Totaly false. The primary and only cause of this is that beast and his GF. It was their actions. He chose to beat on that guy and it wasn't because of anyone elses actions.
That guy getting 4 years doesn't do a damn thing. it won't change him. He will be back out on the street a little older with the same attitude.
Segregation because of race, color or religion is not good. But segregating animals like that out of the general population for good wouldn't hurt.
Let's make New York a maximum security prison and stick all these animals there!!
-
I have seen worse beatings in bars.
bars are bad places.. people shouldn't have guns in bars except the employees or designated drivers.
It didn't look like he was trying to kill the guy.
I don't want to be the big mean racist that intervened.
What do you think my (or that guy that got beatsens) chances would be of suing the black guy?
What do you think his chances of suing me would be? or his worthless scum girlfriend after I banged her head against the bar?
lazs
-
Hell. I seen worse watching BumFights.:D
-
Here in PA (and a few other places as well), vicious assaults consider your hands and feet as deadly weapons. Hence using deadly force to respond can be necessary.
-
Why am I not suprised he was "on Probation":rolleyes:
no one acts like that for the first time.
-
just another misunderstood minority ... who wanted his pizza NOW
-
can you say "minority" in here?
lazs
-
Now for those of you who are now too scared to go to your local pizza shop
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=562&ncid=757&e=10&u=/ap/20050225/ap_on_hi_te/pizza_gaming
it's probably gonna be delivered by a little green Troll though who will beat you over the head with a D6/10 sword.
-
They need to put it in the rest of the SOE games (PlanetSide!).. and then it needs to be pointed at this place around the corner & not Pizza Hut... :)
To the original post.. can't say whether or not I would've jumped in. I'm 5'11" 150 lbs. I'm a skinny whiteboy. I can't fight. I haven't fought since elementary school. My CHL is more useful to get me out of tickets because I only carry when I'm the DD or I've got something important with me. I'm not even a particularly great shot. I haven't practiced stress shooting in 6 months.
I'm pretty much with Santa on this one.
1) My ESP has been faulty lately, I dunno who else is going to jump in to help.
2) I have absolutely no chance whatsoever of being able to take this beast on. I'd have to jump on his back & choke him out like it was the WWF and pray he didn't just smash me into a wall to shake me.
3) If I did pull out my gun and open fire.. assuming I hit him, I'm going to get sued. I'll probably lose.
4) If I did pull out my gun and open fire.. what if I missed or the bullet goes throw and starts ricochet roulette? I'd be shooting at somebody, in the middle of a fight, in a crowded restaraunt.
5) What if something goes wrong? They have more friends outside? One of those friends has a gun? What if the crazy chick blindsides me cuz I lost her for a second in the surging, panicking crowd that's crapping it's pants because I've got a gun out? Now my own gun is loose in a jam packed room with violent people that are not afraid to randomly maim somebody.
I'm not afraid of danger. I've bungee jumped. I've throw myself out of perfectly good airplanes. I've been shot at. I've run for mylife. Unfortunately that's a very bad situation that was started, and the smart thing to do is not get involved.
Too bad the right thing & the smart thing never seem to coincide nowadays :(
-
Originally posted by Scaevola
Now for those of you who are now too scared to go to your local pizza shop
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=562&ncid=757&e=10&u=/ap/20050225/ap_on_hi_te/pizza_gaming
it's probably gonna be delivered by a little green Troll though who will beat you over the head with a D6/10 sword.
Considering this with the sexplosion that internet porn has enjoyed, I would surmise that if there is a god he is a nerd. We are the chosen people.
-
Originally posted by SOB
Not one, but two Intardnet badasses! This thread ROCKS!
Some people come in here and say how they fell, they tell how they believe and are honest in doing so. Those people make the Internet.
Some people come in and spout nothing but nonsense and ridicule those described above. Those people make the Intardnet.
-
I woulda stood still till I found a surefire way to put the bovine mass out cold.
Why dive in to save a drowning man if you can't swim? Two wrongs don't make a right.
The fun part would then be triggering the ***** to chase me just for the burning abs from laughing, the next morning.
-
Originally posted by Urchin
This is practically a no-brainer.
People who play video games won't put their VIRTUAL tulips on the line... why in Gods name would you expect people to put their REAL bellybutton on the line stopping Godzilla there?
\
classic case of survival mentality, how many antelope run to the defense of a herd member whtn the lions pounce? Those guys, like most of you, were probably thinking, oh damn, that sucks...but...glad it aint me!
Actually, this was nothing but a pre-emptive strike, sooner or later the dude who got knocked out, was bound to do something wrong, or illegal. Nothing to see here, move along, move along...
:rolleyes:
-
Originally posted by Regular
Hell. I seen worse watching BumFights.:D
LOL
-
One of the worst sucker punches I've ever seen. The guy was still on the phone, then as he hung up......POW!!!!!
This big ape should be hung!!!! What I can't stand most in this world is scumbags that do stuff like this. Pieces of watermelon that live in society (probably in this case collecting government money) who think they have the right to do anything, and hurt anybody they please with no thought for anyone in this entire world but themselves. I hope he goes to prison.....kills a child rapist......and then gets life plus a day for that :0) This guys will never ever, ever be a decent part of "normal" society. And his ape lookin girlfriend spitting in someones face??? Man, they are both menaces to a civilized society!!! Hang em both in the middle of the hood so the others scumbags can see what happens when you act like an animal!
-
An armed society is a polite society.
- R. A. Heinlein.
-
I see seven people who can have up to 5 year jail and up to 75000 € fine.
-
Why I'd have....put on my robe and wizard hat...
-
Originally posted by OIO
storch, I think that guy did the right thing.
If he had started a fight with 2 gang members it wouldve ended ugly, not only for him but maybe for others.
a $8 meal is not worth your health or your life.
That remind me a story, when i were walking over some squer at prague 3 years ago.
I were with my friend and we spoted 2 guys w/o hairs... Just another brainless nazies i told myself. Later on they started shoult on us so i shoulted on him . "go home" then one of them said to another .. hey hes rude lets go beat him.
Then my blood presure went up...... later on i found myself sitting on one of them holding his head on the road. I punch him once... he got second from the road. And in that moment i said myself " ***.. no he's realy pissed off... so he shoulnt be able to stand up anymore" After 60 seconds of intensive hitting his head on the ground by my fist, i stoped and stand up. I were decided that if he will make 1 move toward me i will kick his head off his neck.... and our brave nazi guy just said.... "huh... please stop it" ... i turned on my friend and he were sitting on the other one but he werent so brutal... he kept him down w/o problem.. im not that strong i had to do something. :D
When i meet idiot i usualy do not wait for formal introduction.....
i would be perfect extremist :rofl
-
Originally posted by Dune
An armed society is a polite society.
- R. A. Heinlein.
BS
-
Originally posted by Suave
Can't you do that in every state? I thought the point of getting a concealed carry permit was so that you didn't have to walk around with you gun in plain view.
Actually states are different, in NY if you get a pistol permit you are actually required to carry in concealed, its pretty back asswards if you ask me but thats the rule. Now in NY its not a simple task to get your pistol permit but once you have it you are not allowed to carry your firearm in the open, it has to be concealed on you.
-
Well, I am 6'5" 230lbs and I wouldnt want to be the first one to try to pull the ****** off. He is big and obviously bad. The white boy sacrificed his head so we can put this baboon in a cage where he belongs.
-
have any of you guys ever been in a situation like this? Have any of you guys ever fought a welfare food and fast food fed black guy?
You aint gonna gonna drop him with a fist to the head.. better to open had his hear and try to push as much air in as possible... that will get him howling and attacking you.
the head is out unless you are one of those fancy guys who can kick that high and really make it work... the boddy is out too as it is covered in winter blubber.... the crotch is a hard target to hit even on a man... the beastr hasn't even been able to see it's own crotch in years so you ain't gonna hit it.. the knees? his shaggy and loose fitng hide makes finding the knees problematic but that was about the best suggestion.
Plus... his howling will bring you to his mates attention who is also dangerous. any furniture is likely to be bolted down and even if it isn't.... you are on camera. the other men in the room are not likely to be much help either.
lazs
-
Yep...that welfare food will give you extra power bars and the only solution would be a ...lightning bolt, lightning bolt, lightning bolt.
This thread rocks.
-
he's a fatso.
hit him, get his attention, get him to come after you, then keep dodging him lol he won't fit behind that counter.
-
Originally posted by lazs2
have any of you guys ever been in a situation like this? Have any of you guys ever fought a welfare food and fast food fed black guy?
You aint gonna gonna drop him with a fist to the head.. better to open had his hear and try to push as much air in as possible... that will get him howling and attacking you.
the head is out unless you are one of those fancy guys who can kick that high and really make it work... the boddy is out too as it is covered in winter blubber.... the crotch is a hard target to hit even on a man... the beastr hasn't even been able to see it's own crotch in years so you ain't gonna hit it.. the knees? his shaggy and loose fitng hide makes finding the knees problematic but that was about the best suggestion.
Plus... his howling will bring you to his mates attention who is also dangerous. any furniture is likely to be bolted down and even if it isn't.... you are on camera. the other men in the room are not likely to be much help either.
lazs
black or white shots to the head are unproductive, (fairly easy to understand if you have ever been the recipiant of a well timed head butt) I usually start by blocking punches with my forehead so the other guy can hurt his hand. kinda gives the opponent a clue that there may be time to back out still. high kicks are for asian movies. Now body shots....there's a topic. the idea is to block the punch (mr. cellphone wasn't looking so he never saw it coming, poor complacent lemming that he is) grab his wrist and help force him with his own momentum past you while stepping behind the assailant to deliver a kidney punch which is capable of being incapacitating in and of itself. follow that up by slight pressure to the back of the knee with your leading foot to bring your opponent down. grab his head and break his neck (optional) a very basic self defense move that anyone can learn in one week and if practiced will work against the most common assault which is what we saw there.
-
Originally posted by storch
(fairly easy to understand if you have ever been the recipiant of a well timed head butt)
In soccer they taught us, if somebody gets in your face, and you know it's going to be a fight, headbutt them on the bridge of the nose. Then jump on them while their eyes water up. Never had to put that to the test though.
I usually start by blocking punches with my forehead so the other guy can hurt his hand.
I can't tell if that's serious or not... but it's funny :)
poor complacent lemming that he is
...I wouldn't go as far as to call him a lemming. I've never been standing in like waiting on my McBreakfast and had somebody come maul me. A lemming would be somebody that sees the guy say something, get beat down, and is still dumb enough to say something. :)
-
Bah... If Scarpino had only went to Rex Kwan Do, this would have never happened.
-
Originally posted by lazs2
have any of you guys ever been in a situation like this? Have any of you guys ever fought a welfare food and fast food fed black guy?
You aint gonna gonna drop him with a fist to the head.. better to open had his hear and try to push as much air in as possible... that will get him howling and attacking you.
the head is out unless you are one of those fancy guys who can kick that high and really make it work... the boddy is out too as it is covered in winter blubber.... the crotch is a hard target to hit even on a man... the beastr hasn't even been able to see it's own crotch in years so you ain't gonna hit it.. the knees? his shaggy and loose fitng hide makes finding the knees problematic but that was about the best suggestion.
Plus... his howling will bring you to his mates attention who is also dangerous. any furniture is likely to be bolted down and even if it isn't.... you are on camera. the other men in the room are not likely to be much help either.
lazs
Being kicked in the nuts doesn't hurt until AFTER the fight. Adrenaline takes care of the pain temporarily, at least for me anyways.
I'm 6', 240lbs. I was taught Aikido as kid from my Uncle. I still in that situation (as a bystander) would have gone for the knee first. Also, an open palmed hand to the chest is faster than a punch (uses less muscles) and is just as, if not MORE effective. Also getting him to cross your body and putting your instep on the back of his leg and running in down with pressure until a leg is pineed would have worked great. Personally, whilst the POS used a sucker punch (shame on the idiot for ALLOWING that to happen, lord only knows what whitey said to the broad. I'd have to say he said more than "Looks like we'll be here longer, someone cut to the front of the line", just me though. However, he should have seen the Big Black Dude standing outside of the store. Now this is the reason I ALWAYS am aware of surroundings (bars, stores, etc). I rarely go to bars anyways, I'm married, drink at home if I am gonna have a couple.
Elfie, I'm sorry man I was raised to stick up for people, especially in a situation like this. It isn't "net ninja", "Intardnet" stuff. It is the way I was raised. This goes back to the addage that (with the seven pus$$ies standing in line) "all seven pu$$ises are waiting for one radish to intervene, and until one radish intervens, they are in a holding pattern". It is classic dispersal of responsibility.
Karaya
-
Originally posted by Masherbrum
Being kicked in the nuts doesn't hurt until AFTER the fight. Adrenaline takes care of the pain temporarily, at least for me anyways.
I'm 6', 240lbs. I was taught Aikido as kid from my Uncle. I still in that situation (as a bystander) would have gone for the knee first. Also, an open palmed hand to the chest is faster than a punch (uses less muscles) and is just as, if not MORE effective. Also getting him to cross your body and putting your instep on the back of his leg and running in down with pressure until a leg is pineed would have worked great. Personally, whilst the POS used a sucker punch (shame on the idiot for ALLOWING that to happen, lord only knows what whitey said to the broad. I'd have to say he said more than "Looks like we'll be here longer, someone cut to the front of the line", just me though. However, he should have seen the Big Black Dude standing outside of the store. Now this is the reason I ALWAYS am aware of surroundings (bars, stores, etc). I rarely go to bars anyways, I'm married, drink at home if I am gonna have a couple.
Elfie, I'm sorry man I was raised to stick up for people, especially in a situation like this. It isn't "net ninja", "Intardnet" stuff. It is the way I was raised. This goes back to the addage that (with the seven pus$$ies standing in line) "all seven pu$$ises are waiting for one radish to intervene, and until one radish intervens, they are in a holding pattern". It is classic dispersal of responsibility.
Karaya
I'd put you on a leash and call you my beyatch.
-
Many of the guys who would jump in and fight are pretty big fellas yourselves, over 6 feet tall and more than 200 pounds, and apparently in good shape.
For smaller people about 1/2 to 2/3 the power of the attacker, optimum defense would seem to be:
1. killer training like judo or some other lethal self-defense
(most people don't have this and it may not work anyway if the attacker is better at it than you are)
2. using a gun or other lethal weapon
(literally overkill in most courts of law)
3. skunk defense
(vomiting or crapping all over yourself, usually last resort in isolated area, not so effective in fighting off attacks on others)
4. crazed assault
(go nuts, get that Jack Nicholson deranged stare, claw kick pummel gouge bite scream use any weapon within reach and aim to inflict as much painful damage as possible no matter what the consequences; sometimes this works simply because of the unknown and surprise factor plus nobody, even the worst villain, wants to sustain permanent damage like poked eyes, chewed ears, deep lacerations, mangled limbs)
5. dial 911
Depends on who is involved, doesn't it?
Wife, mother, or child -- easy to go insane in total focused defense no matter what the odds or how poor your chances of success.
Stranger or someone you don't care much about -- please pass the cell phone.
-
karaya is a fatso, karaya is a fatso! :)
-
Originally posted by indy007
In soccer they taught us, if somebody gets in your face, and you know it's going to be a fight, headbutt them on the bridge of the nose. Then jump on them while their eyes water up. Never had to put that to the test though.
I can't tell if that's serious or not... but it's funny :)
...I wouldn't go as far as to call him a lemming. I've never been standing in like waiting on my McBreakfast and had somebody come maul me. A lemming would be somebody that sees the guy say something, get beat down, and is still dumb enough to say something. :)
1. A good headbutt will break a nose and possibly close both eyes right up.
2. Totally serious, typically the first punch thrown is for my nose, I just put my chin down to my chest and pop my head back up smiling. I promise you that unless that guy routinely throws punches he ain't loving life for a l'il bit. The next punch will be blocked using tai sabaki with a good shot to the kidneys, the fight is usually over after that.
3. In public you should always be completely aware of what's going on around you. Sometimes the heads up means the difference between being inside the bank that's being held up or going out the door as the bad guy comes in. think about that.
-
Looks to me like if you had tried to block Godzillas first shot that way, you'd have ended up swallowing your nose instead of your teeth.
Bout the only thing I'd do in that situation is run out to my car and grab my bat I keep in the trunk. And even then I probably wouldn't use it, since you can kill someone with a "sucker punch" from a bat, and that is the only way I'd open up a fight with that monster.
If I was Shea Whitey in that situation it is hard to say what I'd have done... hopefully I'd have been paying enough attention to wtf was going on that the first punch wouldn't have turned out the lights, but who can say for sure.
-
When I break up a fight I like using my car.
:cool:
-
Originally posted by Martlet
I'd put you on a leash and call you my beyatch.
I'm noone's biatch. Never have been, never will. Those pu$$ies should be arrested as well imo. For a human being stand and watch some get knocked unconscious, and allow someone to get wailed on, is just as criminal as the act, IMO.
Karayal
-
Originally posted by Masherbrum
I'm noone's biatch. Never have been, never will. Those pu$$ies should be arrested as well imo. For a human being stand and watch some get knocked unconscious, and allow someone to get wailed on, is just as criminal as the act, IMO.
Karayal
That's what a beyatch would say.
-
Those guys that just stood there and did nothing are going to have to live with that. I am 6'2" 240. Not all that huge, not small. I may have gotten pummeled to the floor by that guy, dunno... but I would have hopped in w/ out a moment's thought.
-
Well one should be aware of the enviornment and act accordingly. Remember, the bigger you are, the more threatened the other guy will feel and the chances are higher that he will shoot you.
I knew a man who got shot just for interjecting very briefly into an argument at a gas station between a guy and his woman. Appearantly this guy was billy ba back in his small town that he came from. And he opened his mouth without considering the difference of the enviornment he came from and a million plus population metropolitan city. That resulted in him getting a 9mm pistol unloaded into him from the car next to him at a stoplight 5 minutes from the gas station.
-
Are you really allowed to shoot someone for a beating? I would think no, unless kicks to the head are being done which I didnt see. I think use of a firearm in that situation would be a little over the top. Maybe threaten him with it but use, I think you might get a manslaughter charge.
-
You think being violently physically assaulted isn't enough reason to shoot somebody? Then wtf is?
You better be ****ing trolling.
-
I think the law states your life has to be in jeopardy. Not just taking an bellybutton whoopin.
-
His life was in jeopardy. And he would've been acquited of all charges aside from firearm posession infractions had he shot the guy in any state worth a damn.
So to answer your question, yes, if somebody tries to beat you down you are allowed to shoot them.
Don't you think it would be completely stupid to make it illegal to shoot people who are trying to rob you, rape you, or beat you?
Hell that's what handguns are for.
-
I am not sure his life was in jeopardy. Just looked like he was getting his arse kicked.
Robbery I think follows the same law only if your life is in jeopardy. Rape is different. No you cant shoot someone for kicking your ass. Think how many shootings there would be everyday.
-
Originally posted by Suave
His life was in jeopardy. And he would've been acquited of all charges aside from firearm posession infractions had he shot the guy in any state worth a damn.
So to answer your question, yes, if somebody tries to beat you down you are allowed to shoot them.
Don't you think it would be completely stupid to make it illegal to shoot people who are trying to rob you, rape you, or beat you?
Hell that's what handguns are for.
so you use a handgun to break up a fight...I just saw on the news the other day someone did that here and got charged let me see if I can find it.
-
Ok I see it was verbal when the father intervened but here it is.
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/4214509/detail.html
Conyers -- A Rockdale County man hosting a birthday party for his 16-year-old daughter shot dead one of the party guests while trying to break up a fight, police said Sunday.
Edward Leverette, 53, a retired bus mechanic, was jailed on felony murder and aggravated assault charges in the death of Reginal Pettway, 23, of Covington.
Police said Pettway and another party guest started fighting at about midnight Friday at Leverette's house at 690 Pleasant Hill Road in Conyers, and Leverette grabbed a gun.
"When the two young men were fighting it was just verbal and then when the father intervened it ended up being a tragedy," Rockdale County Police spokeswoman Jodi Shupe said. "People need to understand that guns are very dangerous and can result in death. It's not a way to try to intervene and try to stop a fight."
Neither Pettway nor the other guest was armed, police said.
Investigators said about 75 guests were at the party and they planned to interview each one
-
Yes, his life was in jeopardy, untill the guy stopped beating him. You know what verbal means ?
Now I know you're trolling.
-
If there is a country were a woman will go to jail for shooting a man trying to rape her, or a person will go to jail for shooting a brute trying to mug him, I wouldn't want to live there.
Unless I was a rapists or a thug.
-
Originally posted by Suave
Yes, his life was in jeopardy, untill the guy stopped beating him. You know what verbal means ?
Now I know you're trolling.
His life was not in jeopardy. He got knocked out and then the guy was looking for his cell phone, not stomping his head. you are still incorrect on shooting a robber or shooting people in fights. Any lawyers in the house?
-
Don't move to Saudi Arabia, Suave...
-
Originally posted by Suave
If there is a country were a woman will go to jail for shooting a man trying to rape her, or a person will go to jail for shooting a brute trying to mug him, I wouldn't want to live there.
Unless I was a rapists or a thug.
Maybe you should define robbery. Does the person have a weapon? IF SO Then yes you can shoot them, if not then your life must be in danger otherwise you face charges.
Yes you can shoot rapists.
-
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Don't move to Saudi Arabia, Suave...
Actually in Saudi they let the woman's family execute the rapists with Ak's.
-
Yeah, but to convict a man of rape, Sharia usually requires 4 male muslim witness to confirm the allegation of the woman. Until then, the woman is considered unfaithful, and adultry is punishable by death.
This happened a few years ago in Nigeria, although they stayed the execution (stoneing) until the woman finished nursing her child, coneived in that rape.
-
Originally posted by Raider179
His life was not in jeopardy. He got knocked out and then the guy was looking for his cell phone, not stomping his head. you are still incorrect on shooting a robber or shooting people in fights. Any lawyers in the house?
Take another look at the video!
He took a heck of a shot to the face and there is ALWAYS the possiblity of brain injury when you head is snapped back that fast.
And the fat Azzhat kept hitting and hitting him I have heard of people dying from less injury.
-
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Yeah, but to convict a man of rape, Sharia usually requires 4 male muslim witness to confirm the allegation of the woman. Until then, the woman is considered unfaithful, and adultry is punishable by death.
This happened a few years ago in Nigeria, although they stayed the execution (stoneing) until the woman finished nursing her child, coneived in that rape.
yeah I remember seeing that..didnt the U.N try to get involved?
-
Originally posted by wombatt
Take another look at the video!
He took a heck of a shot to the face and there is ALWAYS the possiblity of brain injury when you head is snapped back that fast.
And the fat Azzhat kept hitting and hitting him I have heard of people dying from less injury.
I looked at it. yes it is a beating but I dont think you can get away with shooting the assailant. Maybe you tell him to stop and he comes at you, you might have a case but I doubt if you just unload on him it would be all peachy keen.
So you think any punches that land in the face deserves someone getting shot? I am not standing up for that guy but to say you are justified to shoot him is pushing it.
-
. Use of force to protect property
The law does not permit the use of deadly force solely to protect property, or to prevent theft, or to regain stolen property. An owner CANNOT shoot at a thief - before, during, or after a theft. The same rule prohibits deadly force to prevent injury or vandalism to property. A different rule applies if life is imminently threatened at the same time property is taken. Deadly force used to prevent an armed robbery is force used to protect life, not to protect property.
http://www.packing.org/state/index.jsp/north+carolina
This is NC not sure about other states but I assume its roughly the same.
-
Don't feed the troll.
-
Shouldnt Aunt jemimah be put away also? thats like giving your dog the 'attack' command, aint it?
-
You could have shot the assaillant but it would not have been justifiable. He was unarmed. You can't kill someone for administering an asswhooping. At some point I hope some of us would come to the realization that this is a violent world irrespective of what your mother or your wife wants you to believe. As a man I see my responsibilities to my family as being very simple. I have to protect and provide for my family. Both of those responsibilities require me to be ready to engage and survive any type of violent confrontation that may come my way.
I practice martial arts and I am always armed even if I don't happen to have a weapon on my person. :aok
-
Suave
"Well one should be aware of the enviornment and act accordingly. Remember, the bigger you are, the more threatened the other guy will feel and the chances are higher that he will shoot you."
Not over here! He'd be very unlikely to have a gun.
:aok
-
(http://www.georgeblowfish.com/bfife.gif)
"Watch out, I practice karate, these hands are lethal weapons!"
-
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
(http://www.georgeblowfish.com/bfife.gif)
"Watch out, I practice karate, these hands are lethal weapons!"
My hero!!!!
-
again... how many of you have been in situations like this? You see/hear cursing... a fast blow and a lurry of motion. Yelling and screaming and it all happens in about 5 seconds... How long does it take you to figure out what is even going on?
I boxed sportsman and am fairly big.. I was a biker when it was a violent lifestyle... I seen dozens of similar situations and half or more of the time I didn't really know what had took place till after it was over... I never was fast enough or had the will to stop one before someone got seriously hurt unless it was a couple of slow clumsy drunks.
My take is that no one here would have interfered in time to have made much difference.
I have seen guys who were martial arts trained in brawls.... I was trained in boxing myself... very little proffesional fighting takes place in these situations... the pros simply brawl and wrestle around too when caught off guard... the boxers may have a slight edge tho since they at least know what it is really like to take a real blow or deal one out and are trained and practice with real full force blows.
just my take on things from a few decades of observing similar situations.
Also... like it or not... there is a racial element. many whites are afraid to be on the wrong end of a lawsuit with a black.
lazs
-
Lazs we agree though even if too late better to try and do something than stand there?
I did it when it happened to me. It was painfull but stopped the bloke being hospitalised and bought the Cops some time to arrive.
-
well... I agree... it is probly within the realm to stop stop the guy before he beats someone to death... it is in a reasonable time frame for experianced (people experianced in violence) or even normal people to react and help but...
In this particular case... and in most cases.. the real damage is done before the person attacked is even down. People tend to tuck in and ward off blows when down unless they are unconcious. My guess is that the situation would have only been made worse by the people in that room trying to help
Maybe sanctions would have worked? war is never the answer didn't you say? To me, a war is anything over one person involved in violence.
lazs
-
Originally posted by Suave
Don't feed the troll.
yeah right buddy. I guess some people feel they can only defend themselves with a gun, I guess one of them is you.
-
LMAO. Airhead is that you?
-
raider... in some cases and in most cases for SOME people... a gun is just about the only option for a good defense... cripples, aged and women for instance... other situations where able bodied and computer trained martial artists may need a gun are in cases of multiple attackers who don't act like Ai.
A gun is the best tool for a limited number of situations.
In the situation in question I would say no.
lazs
-
Lazs this is gettindg worrying. We are starting to agree!
;)
-
yep... if you live long enough you will find that we agree on more and more things.
lazs
-
That was my point laz. That shooting this attacker would not have been justified. That was a pure comeback to suave whom still has not been able to answer up for his idea that you can just shoot a robber either. Gotta tell ya Suave, people who can only argue by calling someone a troll have no argument but continue if it makes you feel like a big man. How's that porsche working out for ya?
Where you would have shot this guy Suave I would have stepped in and tried to help with my fists, feet, knees, and elbows. Now suppose a stranger goes walking by outside and sees me nail this guy from behind. According to you he should shoot me. You cannot shoot unarmed people for fighting. From what I saw he got his bellybutton kicked but his life was not in danger.
-
Originally posted by Raider179
From what I saw he got his bellybutton kicked but his life was not in danger.
Felony assault, concussion, beaten unconcious.
Sorry, I disagree.
-
I said that there was no reason for gunplay in this particular situation..... the way it played out. I could just as well have used "knees fists" etc tho and still have a 340 PD (12 oz Smith and Wesson J frame in .367 mag) in my front pocket.
every situation is different.. hence the expression... better to have a gun and not need it than to need one and not have it.
lazs
-
I watched it, and after punch one, granted, me, you, a bunch of bikers well versed in fighting and selling crank with illegal guns, and even your personal Kung fu instructor would stand there like a shocked normal person. Same with punch number 2 as it happened so quick.
But by punch three, anyone of my friends, EVERY one I can think of, would have piled on that large bloated fat black POS and smothered him. And like most bar fights, they wouldn’t kick the **** out of him, just hold him down till the situation was resolved. THAT’s why it is so disturbing. Anyone I ever have known would have stopped it with no secret kung fu ****. Just would have tackled the huge terd and might have saved the guy that was being attacked the damage the extra 4 punches while he was helpless.
I am torn right now wanting to tell stories about my best friends in Wisconsin being Black Belts in a Filipino Martial Art and why it WOULD make a diffrence in bar fights, or felony beating like this, but it will distract from the video and setup an argument with Lazs.
Bottom line is, the guy in the red shirt in the vid looked pretty scrappy to me, but he stood by like a avacado. He should be charged as well.
-
Originally posted by Suave
That's what a beyatch would say.
That's what a POS radish would say.
Karaya
-
Originally posted by Masherbrum
That's what a POS radish would say.
Karaya
Be carefull buddy !! I may one of those guys who take themselves too seriously :mad: :mad:
-
yep creamo... pretty good take on the situation... all of the damagte was done by about blow three and the whole situation was over before most could react/figure out the pros and cons of acting.
If you have never been in a lot of violent situations you won't react till it is over. criminals count on this as a matter of fact..
Not sure that any of the bystanders even knew each other and that complicates things... no one wants to be first unless they are an unusual person.
Bad part is that all the bystanders are beating themselves up over the whole thing all the rest of their lives and... they probly still won't act any different the next time.... if they ever have a next time. Some will take martial arts classes to compensate. Others will train in other ways but... nothing will have changed for them. they most likely are simply not the types to react quickly or inedpendently to violence.
lazs
-
Originally posted by Suave
Be carefull buddy !! I may one of those guys who take themselves too seriously :mad: :mad:
Then sit down already. You popped your mouth off first.
Karaya
-
That's what a mooney would say.
-
Originally posted by Martlet
Felony assault, concussion, beaten unconcious.
Sorry, I disagree.
Felony assault, lets leave that aside. He got a concussion and knocked out? is that right? I've been knocked out in a fight probably had a slight concussion that by no means do I think the person I was fighting should have been shot. Like someone else said earlier I have seen way worse fights than this and no one needed a gun to stop them.
I do agree there are times you need guns but just dont think this would have been a case where you could just pull it out and shoot the attacker.
-
Originally posted by Raider179
Felony assault, lets leave that aside. He got a concussion and knocked out? is that right? I've been knocked out in a fight probably had a slight concussion that by no means do I think the person I was fighting should have been shot. Like someone else said earlier I have seen way worse fights than this and no one needed a gun to stop them.
I do agree there are times you need guns but just dont think this would have been a case where you could just pull it out and shoot the attacker.
Let's not leave felony assault aside. It shows the law feels it wasn't just a fight as well.
It also wasn't "just a concussion" or "just knocked unconcious". It was, "knocked unconcious then continued to be beaten even though there were multiple injuries, INCLUDING a concussion".
-
Originally posted by Raider179
Felony assault, lets leave that aside. He got a concussion and knocked out? is that right? I've been knocked out in a fight probably had a slight concussion that by no means do I think the person I was fighting should have been shot. Like someone else said earlier I have seen way worse fights than this and no one needed a gun to stop them.
I do agree there are times you need guns but just dont think this would have been a case where you could just pull it out and shoot the attacker.
Yer plain wrong. He was KNOCKED UNCONSCIOUS and was still being beaten.
"Like someone else said earlier I have seen way worse fights than this and no one needed a gun to stop them." What's your point, the video CLEARLY SHOWED not budging an inch to step in. Why? They were all pu$$ies.
Karaya
-
Originally posted by Masherbrum
Yer plain wrong. He was KNOCKED UNCONSCIOUS and was still being beaten.
"Like someone else said earlier I have seen way worse fights than this and no one needed a gun to stop them." What's your point, the video CLEARLY SHOWED not budging an inch to step in. Why? They were all pu$$ies.
Karaya
Just watched it again and I saw NO punches when he was down. The point using a firearm is not justified to stop him.
-
Actually Lazs, I think the real "damage" to the guy was done with the upper cuts with the weight of his body slumping over, well after the initial 3 strikes, as he was just out of it. Anyone of those pizza parlor warriors could have dived on the guy before he delivered punch 4,5,6, or 7. I bet his initial injuries weren't anything but being jacked up and stunned. He got broken bones in his face when he became a defenseless punching bag, slumped over, when any one of those retards could have stopped the beating with any effort.
-
Originally posted by Martlet
Let's not leave felony assault aside. It shows the law feels it wasn't just a fight as well.
It also wasn't "just a concussion" or "just knocked unconcious". It was, "knocked unconcious then continued to be beaten even though there were multiple injuries, INCLUDING a concussion".
I still havent seen 1 punch on that film after he goes down. Did I miss something? Actually looks to me like after he goes down the big guy doesnt continue to attack, its only when he gets up he gets another punch.
-
Originally posted by Raider179
Just watched it again and I saw NO punches when he was down. The point using a firearm is not justified to stop him.
Not true.
When Lake Los Angeles, California, resident Alfred Abel saw his girlfriend being brutally beaten by her former landlord, he did the only thing he could to stop the attack. Partially paralyzed on his right side, Abel managed to grab his .45 semi- auto pistol. After shouting a warning, Abel fired a single shot at the aggressor, striking him in the abdomen and killing him. Prosecutors refused to file charges against Abel, saying he came to the defense of his girlfriend. (Times, Los Angeles, CA 11/5/94)
Originally posted by Raider179
I still havent seen 1 punch on that film after he goes down. Did I miss something? Actually looks to me like after he goes down the big guy doesnt continue to attack, its only when he gets up he gets another punch.
I'm going by the report not the video. It's obvious we aren't shown the entire thing.
-
Yeah but that guy who used the gun was paralyzed and the beating was taking place on a woman. Not quite the same situation. link to the story please...
all the stories I read said he got hit 7 times in the head.
-
Originally posted by Raider179
Yeah but that guy who used the gun was paralyzed and the beating was taking place on a woman. Not quite the same situation. link to the story please...
all the stories I read said he got hit 7 times in the head.
Doesn't matter, it was exactly the same situation. The law doesn't say "unless you're paralyzed". The cops ruled it justifiable.
That was the whole story, btw. It came from an American Rifleman google search.
Here's a link anyway, though. (http://home.wi.rr.com/ccw4wi/real_stories.html)
-
Alfred Abel, 40, fatally wounded Michael Rene Chiasson, 38, of Palmdale because Chiasson, angry about rent money he said the woman owed, attacked her.
The incident began about 4:30 p.m. Wednesday when Chiasson pulled up in front of Abel's house in the 17600 block of East Highacres Avenue. Outside, he confronted Abel's live-in girlfriend, a 26-year-old woman whose name was withheld, and demanded rent money she allegedly owed him, investigators said.
Abel, who is partially paralyzed on his right side, attempted to **** and fire the gun with one hand, aiming at Chiasson's legs, the prosecutor said. The gun suddenly discharged, and a bullet struck Chiasson in the lower abdomen, severing an artery.
Full Text (409 words)
(Copyright, The Times Mirror Company; Los Angeles Times 1994all Rights reserved)
A prosecutor declined to file charges Friday against a Lake Los Angeles man arrested in a fatal shooting, saying the gunman was only trying to save his girlfriend from a brutal beating by her former landlord.
Alfred Abel, 40, fatally wounded Michael Rene Chiasson, 38, of Palmdale because Chiasson, angry about rent money he said the woman owed, attacked her.
"He slammed her head against a truck and threw her on the ground," said Deputy Dist. Atty. Myron Jenkins. "He was seen choking and hitting her. She was yelling for help."
As for the shooting, "it was a clear case of acting in the defense of others," said Jenkins, who reviewed the reports submitted by sheriff's homicide investigators.
Abel, who had been in jail in Lancaster since the shooting, was released Friday afternoon, deputies said.
The incident began about 4:30 p.m. Wednesday when Chiasson pulled up in front of Abel's house in the 17600 block of East Highacres Avenue. Outside, he confronted Abel's live-in girlfriend, a 26-year-old woman whose name was withheld, and demanded rent money she allegedly owed him, investigators said.
"He got into an argument with the woman in front of the house and began hitting her," Deputy Benita Hinojos said.
Jenkins, the prosecutor, said Chiasson, at 5 feet, 11 inches tall and 190 pounds, overpowered the woman, who is 5 feet, 3 inches tall and 90 to 100 pounds.
Abel's 14-year-old son, who witnessed the beating, ran inside to get his father, who emerged with a .45-caliber semi-automatic pistol.
"He came out and told (Chiasson) to stop beating the lady," Jenkins said. "She managed to break free, but (Chiasson) started to pursue her and said he wanted to kill her."
Abel, who is partially paralyzed on his right side, attempted to **** and fire the gun with one hand, aiming at Chiasson's legs, the prosecutor said. The gun suddenly discharged, and a bullet struck Chiasson in the lower abdomen, severing an artery.
"It appeared . . . that (Abel) was aiming low, and he probably didn't have good control," Jenkins said.
Abel called paramedics, unloaded his weapon and cooperated with deputies who arrived at the scene, investigators said. Chiasson was airlifted to Antelope Valley Hospital, where he died about 30 minutes later.
Deputies found blood on the woman's face and bruises on her throat, and she was treated at the scene by paramedics. "There really isn't any dispute about the facts of the assault on the female," Jenkins said
Cant link it to you i had to use my school proquest to dig it up...
several things i noticed
1) He told the assailant to stop
2)the attacker threatened to kill her
3)The attacker was trying to strangle her
-
Here's another. (http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBViewItem.asp?ID=3369)
In fact, that web page has plenty of instances where a third party killed someone committing an unarmed assault. And those are just the ones that resulted in death. I didn't look for one that ended with a gun just being drawn or with someone wounded.
Facts are facts.
Felony assault.
Beating AFTER unconcious.
Severe injuries.
-
why did abel have to spend any time in jail at all?
If I had a gun and somebody attacked somenody I cared about, I would aim to kill.
Would that put me in jail?
-
"He had no justification for shooting and killing Jimmy Earley," Assistant District Attorney Kelly Ludy said during closing arguments Tuesday.
So the D.A. says it was an unjustified shooting the jury said it wasnt. Guess this is an issue that gets decided case by case.
Again this guy warned the guy to not approach he didnt just shoot him, which is what some of people in this thread claim should have been done.
But I do see that you can shoot an unarmed man if your in danger, you just better get a good lawyer.
-
Originally posted by Martlet
Here's another. (http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBViewItem.asp?ID=3369)
In fact, that web page has plenty of instances where a third party killed someone committing an unarmed assault. And those are just the ones that resulted in death. I didn't look for one that ended with a gun just being drawn or with someone wounded.
Facts are facts.
Felony assault.
Beating AFTER unconcious.
Severe injuries.
Martlett it still doesnt say anywhere that he was being beaten after he went out. Everything i have seen says the guy went after his cell phone after he knocked him out...
-
Originally posted by Raider179
But I do see that you can shoot an unarmed man if your in danger, you just better get a good lawyer.
or have perfected a good method for getting rid of the body :)
-
Originally posted by Raider179
"He had no justification for shooting and killing Jimmy Earley," Assistant District Attorney Kelly Ludy said during closing arguments Tuesday.
So the D.A. says it was an unjustified shooting the jury said it wasnt. Guess this is an issue that gets decided case by case.
Again this guy warned the guy to not approach he didnt just shoot him, which is what some of people in this thread claim should have been done.
But I do see that you can shoot an unarmed man if your in danger, you just better get a good lawyer.
It's funny sitting here watching you dance in defense of this criminal.
I've given several examples to support my claim that it would have been a justifiable shooting.
Facts are facts.
-
Originally posted by Martlet
It's funny sitting here watching you dance in defense of this criminal.
I've given several examples to support my claim that it would have been a justifiable shooting.
Facts are facts.
I am not defending him. I am saying shooting him would have been extreme. The facts you say are incorrect.
Jones then cold-cocked Scarpino repeatedly, landing at least seven uninterrupted blows. Scarpino went down, but the fight wasn't over. Jones lifted and dragged his body, searching for a cell phone he dropped.
lifted and dragged not hit more
-
Originally posted by Raider179
I am not defending him. I am saying shooting him would have been extreme. The facts you say are incorrect.
Jones then cold-cocked Scarpino repeatedly, landing at least seven uninterrupted blows. Scarpino went down, but the fight wasn't over. Jones lifted and dragged his body, searching for a cell phone he dropped.
lifted and dragged not hit more
Anything after the first punch was extreme. I saw the video, too.
I'd have shot him, then sent his girlfriend a bill for the bullet.
I'd have done the world a favor, legally.
-
well let me ask you this...Would you told him to stop or just shot him?
-
Originally posted by Raider179
well let me ask you this...Would you told him to stop or just shot him?
I would have told him to stop, of course. I wouldn't have given him a lot of time to think about it, though.
-
Ok then if he came at you or didn't cease the beating you might have it justified, but just pulling it out and blasting the guy is not.
-
Originally posted by Raider179
Ok then if he came at you or didn't cease the beating you might have it justified, but just pulling it out and blasting the guy is not.
No kidding. Did anyone suggest otherwise?
-
Originally posted by Martlet
No kidding. Did anyone suggest otherwise?
I think the reason I thought that is no one suggested they would tell him to stop. The impression I got was that everyone is justified to just cap this guy. I never saw it mentioned " I Would pull my gun and tell him to stop, then if not I can shoot him" If thats what the pro-shooting guys would have done then ok.
-
Originally posted by Raider179
I think the reason I thought that is no one suggested they would tell him to stop. The impression I got was that everyone is justified to just cap this guy. I never saw it mentioned " I Would pull my gun and tell him to stop, then if not I can shoot him" If thats what the pro-shooting guys would have done then ok.
Maybe it's because I carry, but for me that's a given.
Just like when I say I drove to the store, I don't say "I put on my boots, walked 47 steps to the car, put my hand on the handle, opened the door......etc etc."
I would assume most of the other here feel the same way.
-
Please dont compare going to the store with shooting an attacker. It just is not the same. Your tone in the thread certainly didnt seem to be a "stop or I will shoot:" it was more
"I'd have shot him, then sent his girlfriend a bill for the bullet.
I'd have done the world a favor, legally."
Pretty big differnce from I would have told him to get off the guy first.
-
Originally posted by Raider179
Please dont compare going to the store with shooting an attacker. It just is not the same. Your tone in the thread certainly didnt seem to be a "stop or I will shoot:" it was more
"I'd have shot him, then sent his girlfriend a bill for the bullet.
I'd have done the world a favor, legally."
Pretty big differnce from I would have told him to get off the guy first.
Is English your first language? I'm not comparing the two events. I'm comparing the descriptive aspects of them.
ie: People don't always describe every movement leading up to an event when they believe it's taken for granted. I could have used any other example.
I could have compared it to eating an orange. When I say, "I ate an orange", do you assume I ate it peel and all? Most people assume you peeled it first, and it doesn't need to be detailed.
Those of us who use guns regularly understand a warning is given in certain circumstances before you give a perp lead poisoning.
-
Blimey Martlett you are a big mucho macho guy! a true Hero. blazing away there with all guns firing.
-
So how many times have you held a gun on someone? My guess is close if not zero. So then you cannot compare something you do all the time with something you rarely or never do.
-
Originally posted by Zulu7
Blimey Martlett you are a big mucho macho guy! a true Hero. blazing away there with all guns firing.
It's ok, I would protect you, too, if needed.
-
Originally posted by Raider179
So how many times have you held a gun on someone? My guess is close if not zero. So then you cannot compare something you do all the time with something you rarely or never do.
Ahhh, I get it now. You just want to argue. You'll even stretch quite a bit for the opportunity. Fine. I enjoy that, too.
Actually, I've spoken about my military service here before. Your guess is inaccurate. As was your previous assumption. As is your entire argument.
Keep trying, though.
-
Originally posted by Martlet
Ahhh, I get it now. You just want to argue. You'll even stretch quite a bit for the opportunity. Fine. I enjoy that, too.
Actually, I've spoken about my military service here before. Your guess is inaccurate. As was your previous assumption. As is your entire argument.
Keep trying, though.
Oh sorry if I am not here enough to be familiar with your life. give me a break either answer or dont, I am not gonna go digging for info that I really could care less about. To me you sounded like another billy badass with a itchy trigger finger. If thats not the case then I offer my apologies.
Isnt that what debate is, an argument?
-
Originally posted by Raider179
Oh sorry if I am not here enough to be familiar with your life. give me a break either answer or dont, I am not gonna go digging for info that I really could care less about. To me you sounded like another billy badass with a itchy trigger finger. If thats not the case then I offer my apologies.
Isnt that what debate is, an argument?
Not at all. My personal experience has zero to do with this debate.
I, quite legitimately, used an example to explain why I interpreted something one way, and you interpreted it another.
You then dismissed my argument on the grounds that I've eaten many oranges, but not held a gun on many people? That's asinine. Even though it's a false statement, it's completely irrelevant. It's something you say when you don't want to debate for the purpose of exchanging information and/or convince someone you are correct, but want to argue just for the opportunity to insult and make ridiculous comments. You aren't arguing the topic anymore, you're tearing apart metaphors.
You crossed over to the latter.
-
Originally posted by Martlet
Not at all. My personal experience has zero to do with this debate.
I, quite legitimately, used an example to explain why I interpreted something one way, and you interpreted it another.
You then dismissed my argument on the grounds that I've eaten many oranges, but not held a gun on many people? That's asinine. Even though it's a false statement, it's completely irrelevant. It's something you say when you don't want to debate for the purpose of exchanging information and/or convince someone you are correct, but want to argue just for the opportunity to insult and make ridiculous comments. You aren't arguing the topic anymore, you're tearing apart metaphors.
You crossed over to the latter.
I dismissed your argument because of previous things you said in this thread. I thought your send the bill to the girlfriend really showed your tone about having no qualms plugging this guy a couple of times without a warning because the other guys "life was in jeopardy".
Ok so you would have said freeze. Then we agree. If you just shoot him, we don't.
-
Originally posted by Raider179
I dismissed your argument because of previous things you said in this thread. I thought your send the bill to the girlfriend really showed your tone about having no qualms plugging this guy a couple of times without a warning because the other guys "life was in jeopardy".
Ok so you would have said freeze. Then we agree. If you just shoot him, we don't.
I wouldn't have any qualms plugging that guy. He would deserve anything that happened to him. That's doesn't mean I wouldn't follow the rules, though.
-
Originally posted by Raider179
I dismissed your argument because of previous things you said in this thread. I thought your send the bill to the girlfriend really showed your tone about having no qualms plugging this guy a couple of times without a warning because the other guys "life was in jeopardy".
Ok so you would have said freeze. Then we agree. If you just shoot him, we don't.
I'd have shot him. I believe that is "Felonious Assault". Raider, were you the guy at the front of the line?
<> Martlet.
Karaya
-
Originally posted by Masherbrum
I'd have shot him. I believe that is "Felonious Assault". Raider, were you the guy at the front of the line?
<> Martlet.
Karaya
no Karaya unlike yourself I would have solved the problem with my fists. Takes a real man like yourself to pull a gun on someone without one and use it. So how's that porsche driving?
mutters something about your manhood and how this thread was over hours ago...
-
I think this is the longest running thread that Im responsible for posting.
Is there some sort of prize for this?
-
Originally posted by Raider179
no Karaya unlike yourself I would have solved the problem with my fists. Takes a real man like yourself to pull a gun on someone without one and use it. So how's that porsche driving?
mutters something about your manhood and how this thread was over hours ago...
You wouldn't have stopped anything with your fists. You'd have gotten your clock cleaned as well.
-
Originally posted by Raider179
no Karaya unlike yourself I would have solved the problem with my fists. Takes a real man like yourself to pull a gun on someone without one and use it. So how's that porsche driving?
mutters something about your manhood and how this thread was over hours ago...
Porsche? Face it Raider, you would have stood there and done nothing. As for your "Takes a real man" chit, save it for someone who cares. Raider, I still believe it was "Felonious Assault", if so, it would be a legit shooting. Handgun would be confiscated for about 5-6 months, then turned back over after the investigation.
Karaya
-
close call.. you probly could have shot the beast if there was time to pull your gun and shout "stop" but it happened pretty fast. No telling how it would have went for either of you after the gun was pulled.
Raider.. you are acting like a moron. You may or may not have solved it with your fists.. Have you ever done anything like that? I take it you are a young strong guy tho? will you allways be so? what will your story be when you get older or... gawd forbid.. infirm like the guy who shot his girlfriends landlord? What will you do? will you simply hide and get more locks on your door?
lazs
-
Not to butt into a real good bashing here, but I`d like to say there is still hope for the human race in some instances. Some people don`t digust me.
The shooting in Tyler, Tx last week on the steps of the courthouse is an example.
The shooter was POed at his ex over a custody battle, came to the courthouse with his AK, blasted her, hit his older son, then started shooting people and popping rounds in general. The man that was on the scene outside of the courthouse with the CC permit did one hell of job even though it cost him his life.
The films from inside the courthouse shows most of the law enforcement inside in kind of a shock and taking cover. They did not know what was coming down and how to react to it without knowing what was happening outside. All they heard was gunfire. LOTS of gunfire.
The man with the CC permit began returning fire. He hit the lunatic quite a few times in the process. The luny knew what he was coming for, what the outcome would be, and was prepared for it. He was wearing body armor.
The man with the CC permit kept him under fire until he was shot and killed. It will never be known how many lives this guy saved by keeping the lunatic under fire and giving the general public a chance to take cover and get out of the line of fire.
It is quite apparent that the luny was going to take down as many people as possible as long as he was still alive.
This was just yet another instance where a CC permit holder saved numerous lives by being there. He gave his own life in the process to do so. I surely hope this is not swept under the table like most things like this and the guy is remembered with some kind of monument, etc. People such as himself should be remembered.
-
hadn't heard that one yet...you should probly start a new thread.
from the description... I would agree that the CC holder was a very brave man and potentially saved a lot of lives.
lazs
-
Originally posted by lazs2
hadn't heard that one yet...you should probly start a new thread.
from the description... I would agree that the CC holder was a very brave man and potentially saved a lot of lives.
lazs
yes indeed.
-
Now we could actually question the sanity in arming mentally unstable civillians with automatic assault rifles.
What enabled the luny to go on his murdering rampage in the first place? He had free access to military grade weaponry. If he would have been armed with a pistol or a revolver, he would have caused much less damage.
-
Originally posted by Masherbrum
Porsche? Face it Raider, you would have stood there and done nothing. As for your "Takes a real man" chit, save it for someone who cares. Raider, I still believe it was "Felonious Assault", if so, it would be a legit shooting. Handgun would be confiscated for about 5-6 months, then turned back over after the investigation.
Karaya
You have no clue about what I would do. And I stand by what I said your not a real man if you have to shoot someone to stop a fight. Your a wuss and an internet tard. I care nothing of your opinion.
-
Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Now we could actually question the sanity in arming mentally unstable civillians with automatic assault rifles.
What enabled the luny to go on his murdering rampage in the first place? He had free access to military grade weaponry. If he would have been armed with a pistol or a revolver, he would have caused much less damage.
thats why most of yurope should be unarmed. every war you guys create has caused us to go over there and teach you to play nice with your inbred selves. When we become the undisputed rulers of the world we ought not allow you guys to even own cutlery. :D
-
Originally posted by lazs2
Raider.. you are acting like a moron. You may or may not have solved it with your fists.. Have you ever done anything like that? I take it you are a young strong guy tho? will you allways be so? what will your story be when you get older or... gawd forbid.. infirm like the guy who shot his girlfriends landlord? What will you do? will you simply hide and get more locks on your door?
lazs
Yes, pulled a guy that was jumped by 6 people outside of a bar off the ground amid the ass-kicking and got him out of there.
5.9 220lbs 27 years old
I love how you guys tell me I am defending the attacker (when I am not, I am just saying shooting him is not justified) the turn around and defend shooting an unarmed person. Only in America do they think your a wuss if you dont shoot people. jeez
-
Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Now we could actually question the sanity in arming mentally unstable civillians with automatic assault rifles.
What enabled the luny to go on his murdering rampage in the first place? He had free access to military grade weaponry. If he would have been armed with a pistol or a revolver, he would have caused much less damage.
Well the fact being on that subject just more enforces the need for CC.
Weapons, any weapons, any type of weapons, are available to people who wish to do harm or commit crime. It`s that way in every country whether it is admitted or not.
That`s the point. Some people say if they would only outlaw weapon this wouldn`t occur.
That`s just simply BS. The weapons have always been there, available to those who wish to acquire them and will always be available. That`s one of the main reasons that CC is so important.
Most of these people don`t run down to Wally World and purchase something to go on a rampage with.
-
Originally posted by Raider179
Yes, pulled a guy that was jumped by 6 people outside of a bar off the ground amid the ass-kicking and got him out of there.
5.9 220lbs 27 years old
I love how you guys tell me I am defending the attacker (when I am not, I am just saying shooting him is not justified) the turn around and defend shooting an unarmed person. Only in America do they think your a wuss if you dont shoot people. jeez
If you WITNESS A FELONY In progress moron, which this was, you can shoot.
I'll refrain from insulting you more. You're trolling now.
Karaya
-
Originally posted by Masherbrum
If you WITNESS A FELONY In progress moron, which this was, you can shoot.
I'll refrain from insulting you more. You're trolling now.
Karaya
Oh really? So if you see someone steal a car you can shoot them? NO you cant. You can't shoot people to protect property, only life.
-
thats why most of yurope should be unarmed. every war you guys create has caused us to go over there and teach you to play nice with your inbred selves. When we become the undisputed rulers of the world we ought not allow you guys to even own cutlery.
You are the legacy of us inbreds, but whatever plays your violine I guess.
I learned the use of the assault rifle in the army and as far as I care it can stay down there. Surprisingly I don't see people going on murderous rampages with assault rifles down here. Surprisingly I haven't encountered a single moment in my life where I would have even thought of having to use a deadly weapon.
I've never been shot at, I've never ran for my life, I've never hit a person in anger in fact I'm hard pressed to even remember the last time I saw a person get physically assaulted in real life.
And I prefer it that way. I wouldn't want to live in constant fear (that's what your weapon mania is ultimately admit it or not.)
Yes, it is kinda hard for you to think that someone lives in an enviroment where he has no need to think for his personal protection regardless if he walks in the public or stays at home. I have no doubt for that.
Amazing, isn't it?
-
http://www.ag.state.oh.us/web_applications/concealcarry/documents/cc_booklet20040319-300.pdf
Defense of Others
A person may defend another only if the protected person
would have had the right to use self-defense. Under Ohio law, a
person may defend family members, friends or strangers. However,just as if he were protecting himself, a person cannot use any more force than is reasonable and necessary to prevent the harm threatened.
A defendant, who claims he used deadly force to protect
another, has to prove that he reasonably and honestly believed that the person he protected was in immediate danger of serious bodily harm or death and that deadly force was the only way to protect theperson from that danger. Furthermore, the defendant must alsoshow that the protected person was not at fault for creating thesituation and did not have a duty to leave or avoid the situation.
WARNING:
The law specifically discourages citizens from taking
matters into their own hands and acting as law enforcement
agents. This is true even if the person thinks he is performing a
good deed by protecting someone or helping law enforcement.
The Ohio Supreme Court has ruled that a person risks criminal
charges if he interferes in a struggle and protects the person who
was at fault, even if he mistakenly believed that person did not
create the situation.
In other words, if you misinterpret a situation and interfere,
you may face criminal charges because your use of deadly force
is not justified. If you do not know all the facts and interfere,
you will not be justified to use force. It does not matter that you
mistakenly believed another was in danger and not at fault.
Of greater concern than risking criminal charges is the fact
that you may be putting yourself and others in danger. If you
use your handgun to interfere in a situation, and an officer
arrives on the scene, the officer will not be able to tell if you are
the criminal or if you are the Good Samaritan.
Ohio law does not encourage vigilantism. A license to
carry a concealed handgun does not deputize you as a law
enforcement agent. Officers are trained to protect members of
the community, handle all types of situations and enforce the
law. Do not allow the privilege to carry a concealed handgun
give you a false sense of security or empowerment. Let law
enforcement officers do their job. If you want to be a Good
Samaritan, call the police.
Conclusion: Self-Defense Issues
If the defendant fails to prove any one of the three conditions
for self-defense or defense of another, he fails to justify his use of
deadly force. If convicted, an individual will be sentenced accordingly.
Defense of Property
There must be immediate threat of serious bodily harm or
death in order to use deadly force. Protecting property alone does
not allow for the use of deadly force. Therefore, a property owner
may use reasonable, but not deadly, force when he honestly believesthat the force will protect his property from harm.If a person’s property is being attacked or threatened, he may
not use deadly force unless he reasonably believes it was the onlyway to protect himself or another from being killed or receivingserious bodily harm.
Deadly force can never be used to protect property only.
Deadly force can never be used solely to protect property no matterwhere the threat to the property occurs.
A “wrongful death” lawsuit is a
common legal action for money damages brought by the survivors
of a victim who was killed. The victim or his survivors must prove
that it is more probable than not that the defendant’s use of force
was inappropriate or excessive and it caused the victim’s injuries
or death. If this is proven, the victim or his survivors may be
entitled to recover money from the defendant as punishment and/or compensation, even if the victim was breaking the law at the time force was used against him.
Because of the serious consequences in the use of deadly
force, it should always be a last option for resolving a problem.problem. If you have a problem, you should consider other ways of resolving the problem first.
All straight from Ohio's Concealed Carry Law...
-
Elfie, I'm sorry man I was raised to stick up for people, especially in a situation like this. It isn't "net ninja", "Intardnet" stuff. It is the way I was raised. This goes back to the addage that (with the seven pus$$ies standing in line) "all seven pu$$ises are waiting for one radish to intervene, and until one radish intervens, they are in a holding pattern". It is classic dispersal of responsibility.
My only other comment in this thread was not directed to you. Read it again carefully, I am pretty sure you will agree it doesnt apply to you :)
-
Originally posted by Raider179
http://www.ag.state.oh.us/web_applications/concealcarry/documents/cc_booklet20040319-300.pdf
Defense of Others
A person may defend another only if the protected person
would have had the right to use self-defense. Under Ohio law, a
person may defend family members, friends or strangers. However,just as if he were protecting himself, a person cannot use any more force than is reasonable and necessary to prevent the harm threatened.
A defendant, who claims he used deadly force to protect
another, has to prove that he reasonably and honestly believed that the person he protected was in immediate danger of serious bodily harm or death and that deadly force was the only way to protect theperson from that danger. Furthermore, the defendant must alsoshow that the protected person was not at fault for creating thesituation and did not have a duty to leave or avoid the situation.
All straight from Ohio's Concealed Carry Law...
Thanks for proving my point.
Next....
-
Heres the full video...
Careful strong language and violence
http://www.packing.org/talk/thread.jsp/36195/
His SA is terrible if he thought that the black guy wasnt gonna hit him. Around here we call that getting caught slippin.