Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: wetrat on February 27, 2005, 04:06:38 AM
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People are constantly whining about being shot in the face on merges, and everyone in the know tells these whiners that HO's are easy to avoid. Well, that's great and all, but if someone is unable to avoid a HO (apparently this is difficult for some.... don't ask me why), then it's unlikely that they'll be able to figure out how to avoid it just because we tell them it's easy.
So, having said that, here (http://www.michaelking.ca/media/mamerges.rar) is a film of what I tend to do (don't bother watching after I kill the niki - it's just me dweebing around for a few minutes). There are many ways to merge with HO tards, but this one tends to reel the idiots in well. Basically, just dive a little, and try to have one of your wings pointed at their cockpit on the merge, do a quick immelman and react to whatever your current victim is doing. The first guy I do this to is kind of clueless and has no idea what to do after the merge - this is the norm. The second, the N1K, is a decent stick who takes the bait and says "oops."
Note: Common sense applies here. If you're flying a brick (a dora, for example), don't be this aggressive merging with a hurricane.
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Hi wetrat :) tried downloading ur film but keep getting the following error msg:
The page cannot be found
Would u pls fixit? Thx ;)
Happy1 :D
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fixed... uploaded this at like 5am and forgot to upload it zipped.
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Originally posted by wetrat
People are constantly whining about being shot in the face on merges, and everyone in the know tells these whiners that HO's are easy to avoid. Well, that's great and all, but if someone is unable to avoid a HO (apparently this is difficult for some.... don't ask me why), then it's unlikely that they'll be able to figure out how to avoid it just because we tell them it's easy.
Just a quick comment.........
I've noticed alot of guys come in over the last few months who used to fly AW and instead of jumping right into AH or WB or something else, they took some time off like I did. There have also been some from WB and other sims, but most of those didnt have to deal with being rusty on top of learning a new Flight Model. I know I know, get to the point.
In AW the classic merge was head to head. We didnt really have to worry about HOs because the chance of one of those shots landing was next to nil, and the chance of the few that might land doing serious damage was almost beyond belief. It was drummed into our heads that ammo spent on the merge was wasted, and to ignore it if the other guy started spraying lead.
Old habits die hard. Reflex reactions you train yourself to make are very hard to retrain later (at least for me). Time after time, I find myself setting up for that headon pass, thinking about what this guy is going to do, how I'm going to react, playing scenes over in my head.........and then when its too late to really do anything else remembering I have to worry about HOs and trying to pull my nose far enough out that I wont be an easy target.
Even after you make it past that intial merge, you try to use the vertical and there he is again, nose to nose. Will he try it this time? Try to get some horizontal separation in the Immelman and try it again. Now he has an angles shot, and I'm wasting more and more E..............
AH doenst just mean learning a new Flight Model to a guy like me, its entirely new tactics. Allowing HO's means I have to take all I ever learned about how you can make an opening move, and rewrite my play book. The hardest part is, I cant let myself go on "autopilot" anymore and try to think ahead. I have to concentrate on each move as I'm flying it, or I'll be putting myself right in front of the other guy's guns. I still do it too often, although I think I'm getting much better. Obviously I dont dont adapt as quickly as some others lol. After about a year and a half or so of this, its starting to mesh but I have a long way to go.
Maybe this will help you a bit in understanding why its hard for some of us to avoid the HO.
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Sounds to me like you just need to learn how to avoid nose-nose turns and get in to some form of nose-tail turn or rolling scissor. That's partly why I try to merge the way I show in the film - the chances of me being shot in the face in the first few turns are almost nil. Occasionally I can see that we're going to end up turning nose-nose (usually happens with spits, hurris, etc when I'm in something like a ki84 or 109F) a turn beforehand and have time to either extend a bit or try something new. If you're confident enough in your flying, you can also start off by giving them your 6... I know ManeTMP does this all the time, and I do it with planes I can't run down.
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I receive the file as a .rar file. Doesn't work in the film viewer. what is a .rar file?
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Originally posted by SFCHONDO
I receive the file as a .rar file. Doesn't work in the film viewer. what is a .rar file?
it's another form of zip file.
Download winrar to unzip it. Winrar supports .zip files as well.
Just google winrar.
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The HO seemed to be Standard operating procedure this weekend. If you dodged the HO you could see his guns firing or hear them chatter as he went past. As I was doing mostly base defense I was usually low and relatively slow. So the dive under loop over thing was out. *Thanks Hammer*
I got frustrated.
At one point I took up g10s with gondolas and did head on merges. If I saw the other guys guns light up I pulled the trigger. If not I flew past and died the usually way. :)
At least with the G10, he died too.
On another note, I seem to have a hard time getting guns on target. Be it on a ground target, a bomber, fighter what ever. It seems I go past the target one way and then the other, back and forth.
Could I have something set up wrong or do I just suck that bad. My stick is an x-45 not too old so I have pretty much ruled that out. Same problem with the off line drones so I have ruled out buck fever.
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Wetrat,
Great films, I'm doin something close to your technique, sept I try & pull them twards me, then turn early (hi/low/whatever) denying them the shot (usually). but your better marksman than I am...
Great Shooting!!
>>On another note, I seem to have a hard time getting guns on target. Be it on a ground target, a bomber, fighter what ever. It seems I go past the target one way and then the other, back and forth.
Could I have something set up wrong or do I just suck that bad. My stick is an x-45 not too old so I have pretty much ruled that out. Same problem with the off line drones so I have ruled out buck fever.<<
Sounds like you're trying to shoot too far away, try gettin closer ... relax the hand on the stick & "squeeze" ... I'm rather new to AH2 & someone suggested this for me when I complained about my gunnery... and it worked very well so far...
If it's 400+, I wait til they're around 350 b4 tryin a burst...
hope this helps...
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Originally posted by Lye-El
If you dodged the HO you could see his guns firing or hear them chatter as he went past.
When that happens, I know I've got an easy kill. No decent stick is gonna try to joust.
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Originally posted by wetrat
When that happens, I know I've got an easy kill. No decent stick is gonna try to joust.
Not always the case, quite often HO's come down to situation. Someone who has few options (out of energy, surrounded, being bounced) may HO simply to try and make you re-think the likely outcome in order so that they can improve their situation. For someone that has better options that accepting the HO, the fact the enemy may persist in trying to HO (regardless if he has other options or not) then you should be able to convert that into a position of advantage (typically angular advantage).
Face it though, if you are all over someone and give up a HO opportunity for the enemy, if he knows it may be the best opportunity he has why wouldn't he take it?
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Originally posted by Soda
Not always the case, quite often HO's come down to situation. Someone who has few options (out of energy, surrounded, being bounced) may HO simply to try and make you re-think the likely outcome in order so that they can improve their situation. For someone that has better options that accepting the HO, the fact the enemy may persist in trying to HO (regardless if he has other options or not) then you should be able to convert that into a position of advantage (typically angular advantage).
Face it though, if you are all over someone and give up a HO opportunity for the enemy, if he knows it may be the best opportunity he has why wouldn't he take it?
Couldn't agree more.....
I used to HO on merges when I first started playing AH (after I learned that the HO shots "counted"). I quickly figured out (was taught) that is was better for me to work on a merge that resulted in angular advantage rather than HO. I then learned (was taught) the best way to avoid the HO and gain angles on a merge. There is NO superduper secret manuever that avoids all HO shots, so I get hit on occasion and sometimes outright killed by a HO. To my way of thinking the other guy and I are playing the odds. Odds favor gaining position rather than attempting a HO in my opinion (if you attempt it, he has the easiest HO shot available). That's what works best for me.....if I have the energy to maneuver. However.....
The MA is a fluid environment. What starts as fairly even or advantageous odds can quickly turn the other direction (makes the MA fun in my opinion). This can result in someone finding themselves outnumbered, outgunned and out E'd pretty quick. At that point why would that person give up ANY shot opportunity? You really can't ask them to lay down and die because they are at some sort of disadvantage that should cost them the fight (numbers, E...doesnt really matter). I for one will not....if I'm in that position and you cross my guns, I'm shooting...period. I'll probably die anyway....but I'm taking as many with me as I can. If I happen to live it makes the victory that much sweeter.
In short the HO as a last ditch shot made out of desperation is fine as far as I'm concerned. Sometimes it's all you have. It's crazy to assume a guy isn't going to shoot if he has the opportunity. Most whines from HO shots are because a guy lost a fight that he felt he shouldn't have....and many times made to soothe a wounded ego.
I think most folks in the MA feel like they can or have the potential to beat most anyone in the arena....or they wouldn't be here....hence the whines when they lose (I'm so guilty of this by the way).
I would be willing to bet that EVERYONE that has played AH for any length of time at all has fired a HO shot at least once. Complaining about being shot down by a HO just lets everyone know that you got beat....so lately I have really been trying to be silent in the complaints side lol.
Zaphod
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Its a good tactic to learn Wet. Thx for posting it for others to see.
c yas up.... Dave
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Originally posted by Soda
Not always the case, quite often HO's come down to situation. Someone who has few options (out of energy, surrounded, being bounced) may HO simply to try and make you re-think the likely outcome in order so that they can improve their situation. For someone that has better options that accepting the HO, the fact the enemy may persist in trying to HO (regardless if he has other options or not) then you should be able to convert that into a position of advantage (typically angular advantage).
Face it though, if you are all over someone and give up a HO opportunity for the enemy, if he knows it may be the best opportunity he has why wouldn't he take it?
I wouldn't merge with a guy if he's being gangbanged... I'd maneuver in such a way as to join in on the gangbanging to avoid the trouble. I guess what I meant by "HO" in my original post is the idiotic jouosting people try - exactly like the guy in the f4u I killed was trying to do. You can hear his 50's chattering away in vein. I'll shoot people in the face when I'm outnumbered as well (provided his guns aren't pointed at me and I'm not winning the fight), but that's different. I won't line up with some banana from 4k out to joust... the point of this thread is to teach those not in the know how to avoid said joust and kill said jouster ;)
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OKOK,
I guess I need help... I got shot in the face 3 times over the weekend thinking the whole way I'd made them miss ... (sigh)
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Originally posted by WDOT4W
OKOK,
I guess I need help... I got shot in the face 3 times over the weekend thinking the whole way I'd made them miss ... (sigh)
psssst.. just because you close your eyes...
easiest way (the more you do it the easier it'll become with the timing) is around 2-3k out from the con(s) is to go into a shallow dive if possible, build up some speed and then about 800-1k out start your lead turn/roll... often as you start that turn, you'll see the guy going past you and you'll be able to use that speed/angle to be on his 6 (possibly even with a shot oppt'y).
the important thing, tho' in the absence of ability to dive for speed (or if you have speed already) is to start your move 800-1k out. any closer and your begging for a HO, so either aim better and shoot first or get used to taking a HO/collision.
if you see me on, ask me to take you to the DA for a while to work on this very simple move. Once you understand the timing involved, it's only a matter of time and hard work before, you, too will be called a cheater for your ability to get around on the joust-bunnies.
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Thx for the tips...
I still got a lot to learn...
W-W
DOT4
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Originally posted by Happy1
Hi wetrat :) tried downloading ur film but keep getting the following error msg:
The page cannot be found
Would u pls fixit? Thx ;)
Happy1 :D
I was able to download film no problem but film is in an unsupported format ie. rar HELP
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Originally posted by Soda
Not always the case, quite often HO's come down to situation. Someone who has few options (out of energy, surrounded, being bounced) may HO simply to try and make you re-think the likely outcome in order so that they can improve their situation. For someone that has better options that accepting the HO, the fact the enemy may persist in trying to HO (regardless if he has other options or not) then you should be able to convert that into a position of advantage (typically angular advantage).
Face it though, if you are all over someone and give up a HO opportunity for the enemy, if he knows it may be the best opportunity he has why wouldn't he take it?
Even though I am a junior member ( since I have left and returned many times ) what Soda says has always been my position on this highly uncared for tactic.
WTG Soda couldnt agree more
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Originally posted by java45
I was able to download film no problem but film is in an unsupported format ie. rar HELP
You need unpacking utility like win-rar or similar.
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Originally posted by Shane
psssst.. just because you close your eyes...
easiest way (the more you do it the easier it'll become with the timing) is around 2-3k out from the con(s) is to go into a shallow dive if possible, build up some speed and then about 800-1k out start your lead turn/roll... often as you start that turn, you'll see the guy going past you and you'll be able to use that speed/angle to be on his 6 (possibly even with a shot oppt'y).
:confused: -Shane......This will probably come as a shock... but I'm pretty fershnagling stoooopud. The lead turn after the shallow dive... towards Joe HO (seems bad) or away? When you say roll...do you mean roll left or right or something else?
Thanks,
Woof
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Originally posted by SkyWolf
:confused: -Shane......This will probably come as a shock... but I'm pretty fershnagling stoooopud. The lead turn after the shallow dive... towards Joe HO (seems bad) or away? When you say roll...do you mean roll left or right or something else?
Thanks,
Woof
Whichever way works best to gain separation and line up for the turn. If he's already offset a bit to your right then swing out wide to the left and set up your turn. If he's on your left, do the opposite. Shane and the other good sticks could probably give you a better setup for this, but this is how I setup for that situation. If it looks from 3-4k out (where I can actually start seeing a PLANE and not a DOT lol) that he's trying to line up headon, at about 1.5k out I start a barrel roll to the left. 3/4 of the way around (with my right wing pointing down to the ground) I go into a 2-3g flat turn toward the target, trying to anticipate where I'm going to intercept. I make a last minute evaluation of his speed, maybe go high or low in my turn to adjust my own speed, and then go in and take the shot. And usually miss lol. But thats just me. I still have alot of work to do on judging my position for the shot and my accuracy. Because of that, I'll often use a lag turn in this situation instead of the lead, so I have more time to line up and so I can keep the target in view at all times until I do line up. But then that gives my opponent more time to evade as well. Its all about choices, and deciding which ones give you the most advantages.
This all assumes I keep my head and dont blow it by being brain dead and go into a headon merge. I do that too often still. Have to try to change at the last second, and thats too late even if your opponent doesnt take the HO shot.
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Screw all that nonsense and fly a 190A8 with the elephant guns package and embrace the HO! :p
Having said that, the HO is a great way to equalize an unequal situation. If the other guy is in a faster plane, or turns better, or has more energy or has more altitude, or has more friends nearby or is a better pilot or flies a plane with a lower ENY number, or has wing-mounted guns, then I will push for the HO.
The P-38, 190A8, Me-110 and Mosquito will usually win most HO jousts, so don't be afraid to give that attacking P-51D or Spit IX a face full of lead as he charges in. Typhoons can be a bit tricky because of the reach of their cannons, but just open up before he does so that your shells land first, then duck out of the way when the counter gets to d600 before you get within his convergence zone.
I flew Air Warrior for years and the HO was the standard salute before engaging in the real fighting. It was like having full deflector shields - you hardly ever got hit from the front. And there was no such thing as a collision, so you didn't have to worry much about losing a wing at the merge. If you fired your guns at the HO, you were just wasting ammo (or hoping for a lucky ping). As they introduced more planes with AW2 and AW3, some planes got off better with the HO than others, but it was still a widely-used practice.
Aces High changed all that. Collisions and new damage modeling required a change in tactics. But changing tactics wasn't as difficult as learning the new ballistics and flight model. Old habits are hard to break, but they can be broken. Its just a matter of whether you really need to or not. In a 190A8, or a P-38, or any other plane with big nose-mounted guns, the HO is the way to go. Its easy to shoot a non-maneuvering target and the enemy that accepts an HO makes my job easier because he flies nice and straight into my gunsight pipper. I don't have to worry about bullet travel time or deflection shooting 'cuz the target is stationary relative to where my guns are pointing.
I get a laugh when I'm in a Yak or 109 with the big 30mm gun and can tag a guy in an HO. One shot, one kill!
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gofaster, the purpose of this thread is to help people AVOID being a a HO jousting tard and learning how to actually fly instead of pulling for a nose-nose shot EVERY time. Please don't propogate your idiotic jousting nonsense in this thread. If you tried any of that crap on me, you'd be dead in under 30 seconds.
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To start with, ignore the idea that a HO is an unsportsman thing to do. That only works if you know your opponent well and can trust him. Anytime you have your opponent in your gun sight and in range, you'd be silly not to pull the triggure. HOs happen even if you try to avoid them. If you don't shoot, the other guy will.
But the HO should be strongly avoided beyond sportsmanship. When merging, the moment you would be shooting for a HO is the most important moment in the fight. It is the time you should be preparing for your initial move and thinking beyond the merge.
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Originally posted by wetrat
gofaster, the purpose of this thread is to help people AVOID being a a HO jousting tard and learning how to actually fly instead of pulling for a nose-nose shot EVERY time. Please don't propogate your idiotic jousting nonsense in this thread. If you tried any of that crap on me, you'd be dead in under 30 seconds.
Idiotic jousting nonsense? If you're in an A8, a 109, a Mossie, or P-47 against a Hurricane, a Zero, a Spit, a Ki-84, or any other turners, the odds of avoiding a joust are zero if the other guy sees you coming. Unless the guy is out of ammo or AFK.
If your guns are bigger than his, use the joust Luke.
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Originally posted by gofaster
Idiotic jousting nonsense? If you're in an A8, a 109, a Mossie, or P-47 against a Hurricane, a Zero, a Spit, a Ki-84, or any other turners, the odds of avoiding a joust are zero if the other guy sees you coming. Unless the guy is out of ammo or AFK.
If your guns are bigger than his, use the joust Luke.
The chances of you landing a shot on me in one of those planes is ZERO if I see you coming. The chances of me killing you inside 30 seconds are 100%. The fact that you listed the 109 and 47 with those other two planes further convinces me you don't know what you're talking about.
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Are you suggesting that a 109 and P47 can outturn a Hurri, Spit V, and Zero?
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depending on which 109 and which jug... it's possible to outfly any of the planes you mentioned, but you have to factor in pilot ability. in pure, cold, plane performance, no.
i've whacked many "better" turners in a p-47d11 and 109f4 in a variety of situations from co-alt to at a "disadvantage."
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I'm suggesting that you don't know what you're talking about, and that it's rather easy to kill anyone in ANY plane if they're a jousting idiot, provided you know how to bait said idiot in to doing something stupid. Fortunately for me, these idiots have already killed themselves if they pull for a HO shot while I'm gaining angles and position.
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Originally posted by wetrat
I'm suggesting that you don't know what you're talking about, and that it's rather easy to kill anyone in ANY plane if they're a jousting idiot, provided you know how to bait said idiot in to doing something stupid. Fortunately for me, these idiots have already killed themselves if they pull for a HO shot while I'm gaining angles and position.
I chosetoreplyto this particular post inthethread because the term "joustung idiot" appliesto me:lol I have to agree with the premise thus stated that anyone can destroy any plane whileflying any plane if the opponent doesnt know squat about what he is doing ( if you doubt this look at my scores )
I know maybe 1 small tweek above idiot so might survive thougha kill is highly doubtful.
I also agree that the much contended HO shot did and would happen in anyair combat situation ( although a safermethod would have certainly been sought ) Here, in AH, we surpress
fields ( vulch ),we kill downed pilots onheground, we kill planes that are alreadyu out of the fight and on the waydown and yet we complain about the unsportsmanlike act of a head on shot?
Just a thought, seems like hypocrisy tome.
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those in teh know are not complaining about the "unsportsmanship of a HO" but rather mocking the cluelessness behind jousting.
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I haven't once complained about HO's. I've merely stated repeatedly that I will kill any jousting idiot inside 30 seconds, provided he doesn't run like hell.
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I think the other day i tried a front quarter/ HO 2 or 3 times, i missed them all- i still killed you in the end though Wetrat.:D
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don't recall seeing your name in my buffer for anything other than a kill recently, thrila. and hte only HO I've died to this month was from a tiffy that was flying in the sun while I was on the phone ;)
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Let me refresh your memory- after you cherry picked me twice on the deck when i was already fighting 1v3 odds, i hunted down every ki84 i saw. Though i didn't get a kill message because you didn't bail before the 10 or so rooks on my 6 killed me, but i killed you all the same.:D
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Originally posted by wetrat
I haven't once complained about HO's. I've merely stated repeatedly that I will kill any jousting idiot inside 30 seconds, provided he doesn't run like hell.
Therein lies the rub. If he's in a plane that can't turn, then the HO and "run like hell" is a perfectly viable offensive strategy. If the other guy isn't running, er, extending, then he's trying to turn and if he's turning he's burning E and, yeah, he'll be dead within 30 seconds because the other plane will be turning inside of him, assuming the HO-er is packing more E than the HO-ee.
Fly the A8? Embrace the HO!
Fly the Mossie? Embrace the HO!
Fly the 38J? Embrace the HO!
Fly the 110? Embrace the HO!
Fly the B-26? Embrace the HO! (or squat in the tailgun and pick'em off :lol )
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Originally posted by gofaster
Therein lies the rub. If he's in a plane that can't turn, then the HO and "run like hell" is a perfectly viable offensive strategy. If the other guy isn't running, er, extending, then he's trying to turn and if he's turning he's burning E and, yeah, he'll be dead within 30 seconds because the other plane will be turning inside of him, assuming the HO-er is packing more E than the HO-ee.
Fly the A8? Embrace the HO!
Fly the Mossie? Embrace the HO!
Fly the 38J? Embrace the HO!
Fly the 110? Embrace the HO!
Fly the B-26? Embrace the HO! (or squat in the tailgun and pick'em off :lol )
It's people like you that make this game incredibly boring. I'll bet you say "embrace the HO!" when the enemy's already tied up with a few of your pals too?
Why HO in an A8? Have you ever TRIED to turnfight a SpitV in one? If you meet coalt at about 10k, you certainly have enough potential E in the bank to work with. I've fought them all the way down to the deck, never getting further away then 800 feet. They kill me at the deck, but that's because my aim sucks, or they would have been dead much earlier.
Point is, I'll get it one day. You, won't. And neither will anyone else that embraces your sophomoric tactics.
Sheesh, its bad enough your HOing everyone... Then you just take off if you miss, wait for him to get tangled up with someone who'd like to fight, and then come in and try to steal your countryman's kill eh?
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Originally posted by gofaster
Therein lies the rub. If he's in a plane that can't turn, then the HO and "run like hell" is a perfectly viable offensive strategy.
Actually, if I'm in a decent turner and the guy coming at me is in something like a FW or an A20 or a Me110, I not only expect to be HO'd, I dont blame the guy one bit. He knows I can out turn him if he slows down, and unless he has buddies to distract me I'm probably going to end up on his 6 and kill him. I expect the HO attempt, I expect him to extend out at least 2k, maybe 3k depending on the plane. If he wants to fight he'll come back and try again. But thats something else entirely. Those planes require a certain style of fighting and I respect that.
The thing that ticks me off is when I'm in something that wont turn that well and intend to setup a BnZ run on my target, only be HO'd by a Zero or a Spit or something along those lines. People fly some of the best turn fighters in the game and they resort to HO. I had a guy once in a Spit V vs me in a P40 that did nothing but attempt HO after HO. No matter how wide I would swing out, he would turn to try to meet me headon.
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Originally posted by gofaster
Therein lies the rub. If he's in a plane that can't turn, then the HO and "run like hell" is a perfectly viable offensive strategy. If the other guy isn't running, er, extending, then he's trying to turn and if he's turning he's burning E and, yeah, he'll be dead within 30 seconds because the other plane will be turning inside of him, assuming the HO-er is packing more E than the HO-ee.
Here's the rub. Whether boom and zoom attacks are HOs or otherwise is the decision of the boomee. The victim must decide how to meet the attacker. If he chooses to turn into the bandit (a tactic often used in AW) and take a chance on a face shot it's his choice. As a best case scenario he will have not much more than a 50% chance of winning (actually more likely 33% with both getting killed a third outcome).
Very poor odds in my book. This is why I take the subject of head ons to the defender. The HO is more his option than the attacker. He either chose it or failed to avoid it. Ironic, isn't it, that the defender is the one most likely to complain. Of course the HO is often a mutual affair, but even then both players are complicate. Ever heard one hand clapping?
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And what if, as the defender, you have just finished with another fight and are wallowing around with no speed and very little alt to work with? Often you are forced to at least turn in the attacker's direction and try to avoid the HO attempt as best possible. Giving him time to line up on a bigger profile if I try to turn out of the way is not an option.
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Im new to AH and not a very good pilot yet but I am trying to learn the tactics. I know about lead turning but thats about all I know.
I have learned that flying a cannon with wings and doing nothing but booming has its flaws. If I miss my shot I will probably lose the fight. The guy in the turn fighter is now on my six chewing on my tail feathers.
I try to avoid the headon if possible, I prefer a good fight because it is more challenging and I can learn from it even if I lose.
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Originally posted by TWA500
Im new to AH and not a very good pilot yet but I am trying to learn the tactics. I know about lead turning but thats about all I know.
I have learned that flying a cannon with wings and doing nothing but booming has its flaws. If I miss my shot I will probably lose the fight. The guy in the turn fighter is now on my six chewing on my tail feathers.
I try to avoid the headon if possible, I prefer a good fight because it is more challenging and I can learn from it even if I lose.
The reason to avoid the HO is simply that its a low percentage option. in order to hit your target you have to give up that lead turn...since the guy avoiding the HO can do so thru proper ACM you've created a serious disadvantage...many times compounded by the "jousters" decision to "pull thru" the HO which waste's E and add's to the angualar gain of his opponent.
As stated above when the HO is your "best" option...take it. Also don't confuse a front quarter shot with a HO...a good lead turn can generate a front quarter snapshot...just dont "freeze" for the shot...snap off a couple rounds as your pulling thru...
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Originally posted by gofaster
Fly the A8? Embrace the HO!
Fly the Mossie? Embrace the HO!
Fly the 38J? Embrace the HO!
Fly the 110? Embrace the HO!
Try to HO me in an A8? I avoid your guns, making you bleed E trying to get a shot, and run you down (everything I fly is faster than the A8. so sorry)
Try to HO me in a mossie? LOL... I'll run you down even faster (btw, the mossie is a perfectly capable fighter if you know how to fly)
Why would you HO in a 38? You can out-turn or out-stallfight anything that can outzoom you.
Good luck getting a HO shot off on me with the LW gun ballistics in the 110.. I'll hunt you like a dog and shoot off your fragile tail.
I still don't understand why you're posting in this thread. You're obviously not interested in tactics that will give you a better than 50% chance of winning, and that's what I created this thread for. Because you've "embraced the HO," I'm also willing to propose that you will never be more than an average pilot. This thread is to help those who don't want to remain average.
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I can usually dodge the noobie ho as you described, but i have problems with the HO experts.
For example FTDEEP shoots me down no matter how i try to avoid it. This is flying P38G, problem is it is a big target.
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Originally posted by Schutt
I can usually dodge the noobie ho as you described, but i have problems with the HO experts.
For example FTDEEP shoots me down no matter how i try to avoid it. This is flying P38G, problem is it is a big target.
Sometimes you have to get awful creative in yer wigglin' to sneak past a good ho'er... Try to be unpredictable if you've been fighting him for a few consecutive fights.
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Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
And what if, as the defender, you have just finished with another fight and are wallowing around with no speed and very little alt to work with? Often you are forced to at least turn in the attacker's direction and try to avoid the HO attempt as best possible. Giving him time to line up on a bigger profile if I try to turn out of the way is not an option.
You're not going to avoid all head on shots. In the situation you describe, you are at such a disadvantage to anyone up there it probably doesn't matter which direction the kill shot comes from.
I have problems with a bogie I'm chasing reversing on me and shooting me in the face before I realize what he did. AH doesn't always accurately depict the other plane's movements and at a distance too great to see detail motion but short enough to quickly get within HO range I'm a sucker. Of course I'm also old and getting slower each day.
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Originally posted by TWA500
Im new to AH and not a very good pilot yet but I am trying to learn the tactics. I know about lead turning but thats about all I know.
I have learned that flying a cannon with wings and doing nothing but booming has its flaws. If I miss my shot I will probably lose the fight. The guy in the turn fighter is now on my six chewing on my tail feathers.
I try to avoid the headon if possible, I prefer a good fight because it is more challenging and I can learn from it even if I lose.
On a boom you should be able to pass by a victim and extend out of his range before he can get a shot on you. What you must do is extend straight for a bit before you begin to pull up. You also should not turn during your attack. Figure it this way:
The enemy has to do a lead turn to get a quick shot at you before you're out of range. If you happen to deviate your line of flight (turning or pulling up) there is a chance that every degree of deflection by you can be deducted from his turn giving him an additional fraction of a second for a shot.
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TY for the film wetrat !
It helped!