Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Tumor on February 27, 2005, 02:28:30 PM
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.....I'll be retired LONG before I ever have to call this dork "Sir"!!
http://whapizzle.com/vids/everybodydance.wmv
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DEFINATLY... Not any officer i would call Sir ...lmfao!:rofl
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:rofl
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Oh...my...God...
:rofl
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DAMMIT,
11 more years till retirment. Probably a future mait. officer :(
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Don't ask, don't tell.
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Says a lot about the US military if guys like this are in charge!
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Originally posted by Zulu7
Says a lot about the US military if guys like this are in charge!
Ignorance must really be bliss for you huh?
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Enlighten me then!
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Originally posted by Zulu7
Enlighten me then!
No offense eagl (or any other zeros on this board) but anyone in the military knows that the back bone of said military is the working NCO. HE is the line supervisor to his troops not the officer in charge. Yes officers are responsible for everyone and everything in their units but they hardly ever know everyone or everything that is going on.....they depend on an NCO to tell them.
It is (in general, pilots and other profesions are an exception) NCOs that usually train officers how to command and how to lead. In many cases a 2nd LT gets an NCO assigned to him to break him in and teach him the ropes.
Lastly my point is this. Officers, in general, are weirdos. Good people none-the-less but they are in fact geeks. I've met very few O4s and below that didn't fit the book worm engineering type image.
Dont get me wrong here I have absolutly no contempt for most officers, i've worked for some really good ones AND some terrible ones in my time. Being particularly biased here....to me.....NCOS LEAD THE WAY! :aok
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Originally posted by Zulu7
Says a lot about the US military if guys like this are in charge!
Gay (http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthtribune/10960139.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp)
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Originally posted by OneWordAnswer
Gay (http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthtribune/10960139.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp)
LMAO! :aok
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Hey One word are you obsessed by my sexuality?
You worry me mate. Are you a little repressed?
If someone questions the Millitary in the US do they automaticaly get labled as a Homo?
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It looks more like he was calling your military gay. I think maybe you're a little defensive. Yer prolly hiding something. Nancy.
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Nope not hiding. Just that he uses that one rather a lot. Just wonder why he has that thought in his head at all?
He thinks our Military Gay? I think the average British Squaddie might have a word or two to say about that.
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Originally posted by Zulu7
Nope not hiding. Just that he uses that one rather a lot. Just wonder why he has that thought in his head at all?
He thinks our Military Gay? I think the average British Squaddie might have a word or two to say about that.
I've almost had the pleasure of getting my bellybutton wooped by 12 of her Majesty's Royal Marine Commandos for mouthing off to them in a bar while consuming mass quantities of liquer....
that being said....well I forgot my point actually. Today was such a nice day that we broke out the mudslides and Capt. Morgans (mid 70'sF today)
Either way your apparent hate for America or anything American is obvious. Most of us don't hate the UK, in fact quite the opposite. When you start in on us expect some back becuase this is in fact an AMERICAN GAME BASED IN AMERICA PLAYED BY A MAJORITY OF AMERICANS......Get it? good :aok
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Nope I don't hate Americans.
I disagree with your Govt and your President's foreign policy.
Not the same thing at all.
What worries me is the ammount of Paranoia you guys are showing. Europeans don't hate Americans. many of us Don't agree with your Pres. Don't like him even. But Your President is not your whole nation.
unless its
Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer, over there now?
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Originally posted by Zulu7
Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer, over there now?
Not quite.....everytime there's anything bad to be said about America you chaps jump on it with rigor to include the Nazi remarks (and we all know the history lesson there do we not?)
When we make even simple jokes about brits or Europe you get your pantys in a bunch (often litterally), set your man purses down, and throw a major hissy fit about how we are all arogant.
Then we reply...no we are proud
then you say....the Nazis were proud
then we say....and who saved you from them??????
rinse twice and repeat.....
Assuming you had a previous name that you ruined all credability for with dumb posts you should be used to this by now.
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Oh lord we Brits should bow down and worship you.
Thanks for your help in the big one it was truly appreciated.
( Took you a while to decide to help the only nation with the balls to stand up to the old Nazi coporal in the first place though didn't it. )
But that was then and this is now. You Dodge the issue.What gives the US the right to decide how the rest of us should live. Thats a bit different from fighting to defend peoples rights when asked. Its now become telling them what rights they should have.
And yeah your attitude is rather arrogant.
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but then, the same goes for the britans doesnt it?
i mean, you are after all our number one accomplices in the matter aren't you?
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Yes Our Govt has got us into the same mess. That doesn't mean I agree with it.
mind you by not agreeing with it, that makes me a Brithater tioo using the logic of some people in here.
Oh lord Now I hate myself too whatever am I to Do?:rofl
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Dude dances better than I do.
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Originally posted by Tarmac
Dude dances better than I do.
he sounds like a woman.
him: "you guys are Nazis"
me: "We are the major reason Nazi occupation of Europe ended"
him: "well it took you long enough"
Seriously.....this sounds like a woman to me
Woman: " you need to clean the garage"
me: " I cleaned it but you need to quit dumping you junk in there, I'm running out of space to put your stuff.
Woman: "well it took you long enough:
me: (under my breath) "was your mess to begin with"
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Originally posted by Zulu7
(Took you a while to decide to help the only nation with the balls to stand up to the old Nazi coporal in the first place though didn't it.)
You get frustrated with us for going in too slow and critisize us for going in too fast.
We can't win you over, so I guess we just have to do what we think is the right thing to do and hope you choose to follow.
But I guess that makes us arrogant... Oh well, nobody said leadership was easy.
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TUUUUUUMMOOOOORRRR !
this one is going to the rathole
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Personally, I think the dual chain of command thing is way way past its prime. time to integrate commissioned and non commissioned.
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It's amazing how anyone can draw a generalization concerning a nations entire military based on a funny clip. But then again given the source of the generalization it's not a surprise. :rolleyes:
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May I generalize and say that this guy doesn't get many second dates?
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
You get frustrated with us for going in too slow and critisize us for going in too fast.
We can't win you over, so I guess we just have to do what we think is the right thing to do and hope you choose to follow.
But I guess that makes us arrogant... Oh well, nobody said leadership was easy.
HEELLLLOOOOOO????????
Does this not sound like a nagging wife????????
:)
Personally, I think the dual chain of command thing is way way past its prime. time to integrate commissioned and non commissioned.
there's alot of truth in your statment. It will never happen of course becuase the chain of command (or rank structure as I call it) is still loosley based off the class system. You need your worker bees and your queen bees.
The the gap between the enlisted and officer education level has been closing rapidly through out the last ten years. I work with an E-5 that has his masters degree. The fact that they base the differences on education is becoming less and less valid.
If you compare me in my job to a 2nd Lt strait out of college I have a worlds worth of experience on him as far as leadership and common practices.
the only thing he can do better than me is write memos/paperwork and hobnob with the upper echlon. Is that important? Yes.....the awards I write for people need somone with a college education to proof read them and spell check......Planes wouldnt fly otherwise ;)
EDIT:
I know alot of enlisted guys were pissed when the USAF did away with enlisted operator positions on UAVs. Alot of the kids graduating HS today could be trained to fly one of those very easily. I could be wrong here but to me it seems like a waist because a computer does most of the flying anyways.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
I know alot of enlisted guys were pissed when the USAF did away with enlisted operator positions on UAVs. Alot of the kids graduating HS today could be trained to fly one of those very easily. I could be wrong here but to me it seems like a waist because a computer does most of the flying anyways.
Well... it's like this: How DARE the peasants assume to think they can handle something with wings!!!!!!
In reality though, I think those on top who plan with the future in mind, realize the day we no longer actually NEED a man IN the cockpit isn't as far off as many would like to believe.
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Originally posted by Tumor
Well... it's like this: How DARE the peasants assume to think they can handle something with wings!!!!!!
In reality though, I think those on top who plan with the future in mind, realize the day we no longer actually NEED a man IN the cockpit isn't as far off as many would like to believe.
as a guy that wrenches on ejection seats for a living.
I 100% agree
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13mo to TERMINAL leave baby!!
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Terminal leave? OMG your going to Die?
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Originally posted by Tarmac
Dude dances better than I do.
Same thing I was thinking... if he's not gay, he's gonna score big time in the disco.
Daniel
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Originally posted by Zulu7
Nope I don't hate Americans.
I disagree with your Govt and your President's foreign policy.
Not the same thing at all.
What worries me is the ammount of Paranoia you guys are showing. Europeans don't hate Americans. many of us Don't agree with your Pres. Don't like him even. But Your President is not your whole nation.
unless its
Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer, over there now?
^^
Thank you Zulu, it's spot on.
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I thought so though the quote from AH maybe a bit strong. If you look at the Paranoia and simmering anger and hatred towards outsiders expressed on this BBs by some people its kind of worrying. I went to US in 98 and had a great time. I'm actualy not sure I'd want to go in current climate if the attitudes expressed here are indicative of the way Public opinion is over there. Shame realy.
:confused:
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this place is not a very good cross section of the american culture really. most people that i know in the real world are generally polite and will reserve thier dark little beasts for more anonymous places.
just like everywhere else i suppose.
this is probably one of the angrier boards that i go to...but hey...they're family... much like the drunk uncle at any given feast. ya, he's loud, obnoxious and embarrassing, but you'll bail him out anyway.
bless her little heart she stays with him.
:)
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
then we say....and who saved you from them??????
Not you ... western allies sold us and we were liberated by Russian/allies....
Later allies sold US to russian once more.
Every little children know, that US were trying to avoid war as long as possible. So please stop with that theatre... " We... all mighty US save the world..."
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Originally posted by lada
Every little children know, that US were trying to avoid war as long as possible. So please stop with that theatre... " We... all mighty US save the world..."
Damned if we do, damned if we don't.
You Yankees tried to avoid war. Shame of you.
You Yankees went to war. Shame on you.
Isolationism. That's where it's at!
Wait, we did that before. Got attacked.
Then got "America shouldn't have tried to avoid the war."
Maybe we just need to wait until the wars get bigger. Should have stayed out of Yugosalvia, maybe it would have got bigger. Stayed out of Iraq...and Kuwait, maybe it would have got bigger.
And then we could have listened to: The U.S. isn't doing anything to help the poor suffering people of *insert country here*
Screw 'em all. Let each group attack the other. Screw the civilians on the news. Just wait, because.....It'll get bigger! :confused:
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Originally posted by OneWordAnswer
Gay (http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthtribune/10960139.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp)
typical
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Guns,
You're right about senior NCOs providing the continuity in the force. They lead the junior enlisted troops and guide/educate junior officers on their path to becoming real leaders.
To anyone here currently serving talking trash about this kid saying they wouldn't want to serve under him, get a clue. And stand at attention while you do it. Seriously, what kind of retard would make a judgement about the military abilities or leadership skills of someone based on a candid camera shot of something they do in the pseudo-privacy of their own dorm rooms?
I've been in for 15 years now and I don't know ANY "good" troop who wouldn't take an order from that kid after he graduates and pins on his bars. Sure they might get a good laugh at his expense, but the day he graduates he outranks some 60% of the USAF, and at that point the correct response is "yes sir". If you can't handle that, get out. The CSAF has provided very clear guidance in recent years in his CSAF sight pictures outlining what he expects from our force, both the enlisted and officer corps. In military and professional matters, he expects disciplined behavior and proper conduct in all facets of your life. What you say in private is one thing, but when on the job, you salute sharply and do your best to carry out your orders to the best of your ability. Those who fail to follow and uphold the standards have been expressly invited by the CSAF to leave the service.
So if you can't follow or work with this kid when he earns the right to wear his bars just because he gets a little wacky practicing his radical dance moves in his dorm room, you've been shown the door so get out. I'll help you fill out the paperwork if you like. I'm in the global email list under Lakenheath so I'm easy to get ahold of.
Oh yes... There's a war on right now, there are troops in my flight receiving direct fire on a daily basis, and in a combat area insubordination is a very serious offense. The amount of bullshxt I hear from some junior USAF troops sickens me because good, sharp troops are put in danger by their undisciplined attitudes and poor behavior. So I take retarded statements like "I'm glad I'll be out before I have to take orders from this guy" pretty seriously. If you can't take orders from this guy, why are you waiting? Get out now because it's not up to you to decide who you take orders from, and I don't want to rely on your sorry butt when you decide who you are and are not going to take orders from tomorrow. STFU and soldier on like everyone else, or get out.
This ends your daily morale, recruiting, and retention briefing. Carry on.
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Bah. I'm grumpy about this, no sense of humor at all, because I've had to deal with a couple of sarcastic NCOs recently as well as a bunch of airmen who were apparently not taught to call anyone "sir" in official correspondence. I don't know what they're teaching in basic training, but every one of my senior NCOs knows that you call a Major or Lt Col "sir" even in email, yet I keep seeing official email from junior enlisted troops that are as casual as if they were speaking to their roommate. I know we can afford to not be too uptight about customs and courtesies, but the basic courtesies do not change, and have not changed since the inception of the US Air Force. In the Army or Marines, they teach this in basic training. When I was in basic, I was taught this. I counted last week and 5 out of 7 official exchanges I witnessed between officers in my flight and SrA or younger troops were somewhere between friday-night casual and outright disrespect.
It's a growing problem because apparently nobody has the time to sit down with these kids and explain what is expected of them. As the simplest example, there are customary guidelines for the formatting of official email, including using rank and name of the recipient at the begining, rank and name at the end, and an official signature block in a format specified by AFI. Instead, what I typically get is a response like:
"yea I can do that"
with no name, often no subject line, etc. When I need to send the exact same message to anyone senior to me, it goes something like this:
Col Smith,
Sir, I will take care of this issue and report the results.
Respectfully
Maj Long
//Signed//
Full name, rank, USAF
Office symbol
Duty phone
The O6 uses this format when corresponding with the O7, and he even uses a similiar format when writing to others of equal or lower rank, out of simple military courtesy. This simple form of courtesy is NOT BEING TAUGHT to our troops, and it reduces morale and effectiveness because they grow up thinking that obeying orders and following military customs and courtesies are optional based on what they think of whoever they're dealing with. The UCMJ does not have a chapter on how to obey orders from someone you think is a jerk, overbearing, or stuck-up. It's pretty clear that the rules apply across the board.
So that's why I'm touchy about this sort of thing, because yea I could just let it slide and not say anything, but people not saying anything just perpetuates the problem and creates an atmosphere of disrespect and distrust in the ranks and in the workplace. Any good officer or NCO knows that true respect is earned, but obedience and a duty to not show disrespect to your superiors comes with the uniform.
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Anybody who didn't act a little goofy at 19 shouldn't even be considered for a commision.
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Everyone is free to make their generalizations from this video. (http://www.furnisafe.com/auk/video/rattisulkeiset.avi) :D
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Originally posted by Gunslinger:
as a guy that wrenches on ejection seats for a living.
That's what I did in the Air Force 30 years ago. I was an egress mechanic on F-105s and F-4 Phantoms. Good old Martin-Baker seat.
:)
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Originally posted by eagl
Bah. I'm grumpy about this, no sense of humor at all, because I've had to deal with a couple of sarcastic NCOs recently as well as a bunch of airmen who were apparently not taught to call anyone "sir" in official correspondence. I don't know what they're teaching in basic training, but every one of my senior NCOs knows that you call a Major or Lt Col "sir" even in email, yet I keep seeing official email from junior enlisted troops that are as casual as if they were speaking to their roommate. I know we can afford to not be too uptight about customs and courtesies, but the basic courtesies do not change, and have not changed since the inception of the US Air Force. In the Army or Marines, they teach this in basic training. When I was in basic, I was taught this. I counted last week and 5 out of 7 official exchanges I witnessed between officers in my flight and SrA or younger troops were somewhere between friday-night casual and outright disrespect.
It's a growing problem because apparently nobody has the time to sit down with these kids and explain what is expected of them. As the simplest example, there are customary guidelines for the formatting of official email, including using rank and name of the recipient at the begining, rank and name at the end, and an official signature block in a format specified by AFI. Instead, what I typically get is a response like:
"yea I can do that"
with no name, often no subject line, etc. When I need to send the exact same message to anyone senior to me, it goes something like this:
Col Smith,
Sir, I will take care of this issue and report the results.
Respectfully
Maj Long
//Signed//
Full name, rank, USAF
Office symbol
Duty phone
The O6 uses this format when corresponding with the O7, and he even uses a similiar format when writing to others of equal or lower rank, out of simple military courtesy. This simple form of courtesy is NOT BEING TAUGHT to our troops, and it reduces morale and effectiveness because they grow up thinking that obeying orders and following military customs and courtesies are optional based on what they think of whoever they're dealing with. The UCMJ does not have a chapter on how to obey orders from someone you think is a jerk, overbearing, or stuck-up. It's pretty clear that the rules apply across the board.
So that's why I'm touchy about this sort of thing, because yea I could just let it slide and not say anything, but people not saying anything just perpetuates the problem and creates an atmosphere of disrespect and distrust in the ranks and in the workplace. Any good officer or NCO knows that true respect is earned, but obedience and a duty to not show disrespect to your superiors comes with the uniform.
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Sir,
I deepply regret my previous insubordination and wish to give my assurances that its continuence in the future will in fact not be seen again. I do feel that I have failed in my particular duties as an NCO to shape and mold the young mind's of airman properly.
As an NCO I am responsible to my commander for the morale, wellfare, and discapline of the troops put in my charge. Their abililties and performance is a direct image of my leadership. I have taken several corrective action measures to include aplying for Special duty at Lackland AFB to correct the problem at its source.
If any further disciplinary actions present themselves please notify me by quickest means nescesary and I will take swift corrective action to prevent any and all reaccurances.
Respectfully Submitted,
Jarhead, D SSgt. USAF
Egress Systems Craftsmen
777th Cant Maintain S**t/MXCL
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
See I still know how to talk to officers! ;)
All sarcasm aside.
Eagl you're preaching to the choir here. I get on troops all the time about proper respect to not only officers but NCOs as well. It's still dificult for me sometimes because the USAF is reletivly slack compared to what I'm used to.
I got a troop that wants me to order him yellow tinted safety glasses and put stickers on his hard hat so he can "maintain his individuality" while working the flightline.
I nearly flipped when I heard that.
Officers are still mostly nerds....good people...but nerds and I stand by that. No further proof is needed than the "gold bond" video ;)
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Originally posted by 2stony
Originally posted by Gunslinger:
That's what I did in the Air Force 30 years ago. I was an egress mechanic on F-105s and F-4 Phantoms. Good old Martin-Baker seat.
:)
COOL!
There's still a few hogs flying today but mostly they're converting them for drone usage. F4s killed alot of egress troops so i've been told.
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Seriously, all jokes aside.....
...this guy is a pretty good dancer.
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Originally posted by hawker238
Seriously, all jokes aside.....
...this guy is a pretty good dancer.
Son.....listen to me very carefully......you dance like that and you will never EVER meet a woman let alone have sex with her.
;)
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Originally posted by eagl
To anyone here currently serving talking trash about this kid saying they wouldn't want to serve under him, get a clue. And stand at attention while you do it. Seriously, what kind of retard would make a judgement about the military abilities or leadership skills of someone based on a candid camera shot of something they do in the pseudo-privacy of their own dorm rooms?
on second thought, why bother... :rolleyes:
Grow a sense of humor eagl
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F4s killed alot of egress troops so i've been told
An F-105 almost killed me once. It was my supervisor's fault and not the planes'.
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Tumor
.....I'll be retired LONG before I ever have to call this dork "Sir"!!
http://whapizzle.com/vids/everybodydance.wmv
This guy probably goes to bars where the other guys wear lasers on their heads.
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Thank God there are finally some normal, albeit goofy kids, in the armed forces, and not these amped-up robot types we see portrayed in film.
let the kids be kids, life is tough enough and they'll wind up being fine officers, no doubt!
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Same thing I was thinking... if he's not gay, he's gonna score big time in the disco.
My thoughts exactly. I used to laugh at all those clubber GQ types with their funny dancing and all, while I felt real men made a random fashion statement and danced only when required with as little motion as possible. I was an idiot. Those guys were out scoring like mad while I was looking for that cool chick interested in Pink Floyd.
As to the other...
We had an interesting NCO in my Army Reserve unit. A Korean American in his 30s. He happened to be a VP at a downtown Chicago bank with what was undoubtedly a good 6 figure income in the mid 1980s. Real squared away NCO :)
Our Lt. Col was a maverick officer, battlefield commission type, who was a LRRP in VN. Ran a construction company in civilian life. About as high speed and low drag as you could get. Fairly unconventional in his relationship with the senior NCOs (he seemed closer and more natural with them then the staff officers actually, but then a lot of the NCOs were VN vets too). Tremendous respect, high expectations and a lot of desire to meet those expectations. Really an exceptional individual by either NCO or Officer standards. He led by example and expectation and respect and even with a somewhat informal manner you knew what was required and you worked to show him you were up to the task.
Frankly, I’m not surprised about the slacking discipline Eagl notes with all this “Army of One” type of crap and political correctness in the training commands. With the numbers situation that seems to be developing (the lack there of) I don’t imagine it will get any better. Hackworth has a recent piece that touches on it, along with past articles describing a soft basic/AIT environment (at least for the non combat arms fields):
By David H. Hackworth
http://www.sftt.org/cgi-bin/csNews/csNews.cgi?database=Hacks%20Target%20Homepage.db&command=viewone&op=t&id=107&rnd=65.88506083760126
…The huge spike in combat-stress cases is probably in part a result of the highly effective new Army program to spot any signs of this disorder early, which has never before been done on so sweeping a scale. And it’s about time. In the past, it was always just use ‘em and lose ‘em.
But although the docs are doing an excellent job tending to the fallout, I’m convinced the underlying issue is that initial entry training – i.e., basic – has gotten so soft and stress-free that we’re sending a generation of young soldiers into battle without giving them the right stuff to make it through the crucible of combat. And that’s not only unfair, it’s irresponsible – and tragic.
Because the key to combat survival continues to be an iron discipline coupled with a mind and body that have been steeled to withstand the unspeakable stress that comes with the oh-so-futile, mind-bending carnage of man killing man.
Charon
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Son.....listen to me very carefully......you dance like that and you will never EVER meet a woman let alone have sex with her.
;)
I don't know what you're talking about. I'm sure he can dance normal too.
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Originally posted by Red Tail 444
Thank God there are finally some normal, albeit goofy kids, in the armed forces, and not these amped-up robot types we see portrayed in film.
let the kids be kids, life is tough enough and they'll wind up being fine officers, no doubt!
I can't believe I actually missed your post red tail because it is soo true.
People don't realize were the Military comes from. They don't stop to think about how a Military is created. They don't see that a Military isn't created like magic.
It's recruited from ALL WALKS OF LIFE. My boot camp platoon had almost every single race in it from places all over the US west of the missisippi.
Military members consist of every type of person from that goofy teenager that lived down the street to that 20 somthing bum you saw hanging out with your neighbors daughter to the kid that used to roll with the gang crowd. To the smart kid that everyone thaught was going to college to that guy that barely passed shop class to the girl that was a chearleader to the girl that was on the softball team to that girl that was that freaky goth chick that no one talked to. You got the jock, wimp, geek, nerd, preppy, black, white, mexican, latino, native american, asian, arab.
They are no different than anyone else in this world....they may walk a little taller...talk a little less ect.
Sleep good at night knowing that your nations borders are protected by these people.....they are some of the best our country has to offer and do their job with out need of thanks.
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GS,
I disagree with the without need for thanks bit. Their service should be recognized and they DESERVE thanks.
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Originally posted by Maverick
GS,
I disagree with the without need for thanks bit. Their service should be recognized and they DESERVE thanks.
Let me rephrase....
they do their job not to get thanks/praise from the public they serve but because it's their duty to.
didn't mean to sound that it wasnt deserving.
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Oh yeah, he's officer material.