Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Krusher on March 01, 2005, 03:33:20 PM
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YIKES !
The figure of 5.216 million people, or 12.6% of the working-age population, is the highest jobless rate in Europe's biggest economy since the 1930s.
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uh oh.
somebody better park a fire truck out in front of the reichschtag.
:D
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"YIKES"?
lol does this affect you in Texas that much? ;)
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i blame the east germans for not keeping up with 4th reich's standards! :D
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mmmmm wonder what the bond market looks like,,,,
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Nah, the EU is about to take over the economic world. They have no problems. As soon as the US market goes bust, they'll be selling tons of expensive German automobiles. So, don't sweat it.
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Originally posted by Toad
Nah, the EU is about to take over the economic world. They have no problems. As soon as the US market goes bust, they'll be selling tons of expensive German automobiles. So, don't sweat it.
:rofl
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Originally posted by Toad
Nah, the EU is about to take over the economic world. They have no problems. As soon as the US market goes bust, they'll be selling tons of expensive German automobiles. So, don't sweat it.
it could be much more worse, imagine we would be at war today,
thanks god we are not, everything else compared is peanuts :)
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Yeah, after getting your arses kicked twice last century you don't want to start this century out the same way.
It's much better to be jobless then have it blown out from under you...
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Hmpph - do you think the inflexibility of the economy, particularly interest rate control, since being stuck with the Euro currency might have something to do with it?
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I dunno Beet... we'll have to ask the Scandinavians that have been predicting the demise of the US economy how to handle this German problem. They'll only know for sure.
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so when are we dividing Germany this time....
wonder what the partitions will be, a US sector, a British sector....
hmmm maybe a Polish sector and Iraqi sector too!
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All I want to know is are there any cute german babes?
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In January 2005 Germany has changed the definition of "jobless people".
Before this day the so called "Sozialhilfeempfänger" were not counted in german statistics as jobless people.
Now both goups are mixed to one and thats the reason for the sudden increase of 1 million in the statistics.
Without this effect Germany would have the same 4 million jobless people like under the rule of chancellor Kohl.
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Originally posted by Yeager
All I want to know is are there any cute german babes?
if you ask me, Yeager for president! :aok
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In other news, Poland increases patrols of its borders.
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What are you guys talking about????????
You know its Bush's fault!
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I just hope the quality of German cars is not allowed to slip. Best cars in the world, IMO.
Q. If an American has lost his car keys, does he ask his wife to help him locate his "automobile keys", or would he say "car keys"?
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Hed say car keys.
If you say 'automobile' people will think you're gay or insufferably educated.
In short, you'd look like a brit ;) ;) ;)
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why are the germans the only ones to call their cars "road cars"?
my honda drives on the road just fine.
saw a comparison test on a TV car show (forget which one) between a Corvette and a Porsche, they were about equal
until they got to the price, the "german road car" was $80,000, the corvette was $42,000.
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Originally posted by beet1e
Q. If an American has lost his car keys, does he ask his wife to help him locate his "automobile keys", or would he say "car keys"?
nope its
B*%CH WERE ARE MY DAMN KEYS? ;)
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Originally posted by Krusher
YIKES !
The figure of 5.216 million people, or 12.6% of the working-age population, is the highest jobless rate in Europe's biggest economy since the 1930s.
Yes but at least they have no deficit ;)
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Originally posted by Krusher
YIKES !
The figure of 5.216 million people, or 12.6% of the working-age population, is the highest jobless rate in Europe's biggest economy since the 1930s.
And havent we been down this road before?
France, Your on your own this time
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Yes but at least they have no deficit ;)
they also don't have 14 carrier battle groups crusing around the world.
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Originally posted by beet1e
Q. If an American has lost his car keys, does he ask his wife to help him locate his "automobile keys", or would he say "car keys"?
Course that only helps if the keys are in the immediate vacinity.
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Over 40 years of communism in half the country is a *****.
"Unemployment
This employment figure is offset by the fact that on average in 2003 there were more than four million people without work. The unemployment rate among all civilians available for work stood at 10.5 percent, an increase of 0.7 percent on 2001, meaning that almost one in ten people able to work was without gainful employment. In west Germany, the unemployment rate stood at 8.4 percent and in east Germany at 18.5 percent."
http://www.tatsachen-ueber-deutschland.de/621.99.html
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I'm patiently waiting for a German citizen to point out that he doesn't care what Americans think about his country and that Americans should mind their own business.
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isnt Germany a "liberal" govt? ;) <----for those of you who CANT see this is a winking smile indicating that I am being sarcastic and making a friendly joke.
I'm patiently waiting for a German citizen to point out that he doesn't care what Americans think about his country and that Americans should mind their own business.
Gunslingers wife: "Mind your own business I don't care what Americans think about my country"
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Originally posted by JB88
uh oh.
somebody better park a fire truck out in front of the reichschtag.
:D
:rofl
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Thrawn - interesting article, thanks for posting.
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Originally posted by john9001
they also don't have 14 carrier battle groups crusing around the world.
and that is negative? ;)
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Back in 1990 when germany was reunited we had a conservative government in charge. Only thanks to them the reunion worked out as well as it did politically.
Economically they messed it up entirely, putting too much faith in the strength of western germany's economy and the positive effects of capitalism.
Consequently east germany lost the vast majority of it's industrial capabilities since nothing over there was even barely able to withstand the pressures of competition that were forced upon them all of a sudden. That meant unemployment for ten thousands of people who hadn't known this for 40 years.
To counter the ongoing trend the government hastily created tools to transfer money from the west to the east, hoping it would spark the creation of new industries. In the last 15 years 1250 billion euro($1600 billion) have been transferred that way.
Obviously, it didn't help that much. Differences between east and west are still enormous. Due to the amount of money transfered and vanishing western germany has been living off it's very substance for over a decade. Economic growth doesn't make up for the lost amounts.
That coupled with the pressures of globalization, an oversized welfare system and a partly antiquated set of industrial laws with way too high taxes are paralysing the german economy. It doesn't seem to be able to partake in the current global upward economic trend, it stagnates.
The current government of course is attempting to do something about it and began reforms of a scale that so far are unmatched in germany's younger history. Unfortunately it still doesn't seem enough to turn the trend around so far.
One of the things they did recently was reform the welfare system. Until january 1st everyone who lost his job was eligible for years of unemployment payments. They reduced that, which was a good thing. Technically the reform also meant that a large amount of people who weren't included in the unemployment figures suddenly had to be integrated into those.
That's why unemployment rates rose significantly after january 1st. It's more a statistical than actual rise.
Still, it's a depressing trend. I'm not defending it or trying to downsize it's significance, even though I do think (and hope) that nobody seriously thinks of this as a possible repetition of history. Aside from all problems this country may have, I do think that the vast majority of people here are appreciating our democratic freedoms and would never trade them in. Learning from history does work. Creating a working democracy after WW2 did actually succeed here, which is why I can't stand idiots stating that this would never work in other regions of the world (read, the middle east). It did work before, so why not again and why not attempt it?
But well, I'm just babbling. Given the fact that this bbs is so full of people constantly bashing the US I think the reactions here are quite understandable (and some are actually funny indeed :))
I just wanted to add my perspective and maybe some background info. I like my country, believe in our democracy and try to keep my optimism and hopes up for the future.
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Originally posted by Redwing
...Learning from history does work. Creating a working democracy after WW2 did actually succeed here, which is why I can't stand idiots stating that this would never work in other regions of the world (read, the middle east). It did work before, so why not again and why not attempt it?
I agree on the importance of learning from history, and am thankful the the democracy started in Germany following WWII took hold.
However, I have to observe that the first democracy started in Germany following WWI didn't take hold, and the result of that failure led to the most destructive war this planet has ever known. So as far as Germany's is concerned, we're batting only .500.
Granted, there are lots of differences between post WWII Germany and today's Middle East. When I consider the differences in the people, that is, Germany's well-educated and industrious population vs. the Middle East's well, er..., well, um... I have to conclude the chances for a functional democracy surviving were better with postwar Germany.
And that is NOT to say that I hate America, or that democracy in the Middle East will never take hold. My big concern is the cost of this war, along with the shift of the US's manufacturing and high-paying service industry jobs offshore and the impending retirements of the baby boomers may drive this country to the brink of financial ruin. We are losing our middle class in America, and I don't think that bodes well for the long term health of our own democracy.
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Originally posted by john9001
they also don't have 14 carrier battle groups crusing around the world.
See Gunslingers explination for ";) "
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why were we not warned of this by the scandanavian economists and soothsayers on this board?
lazs
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Obviously, it didn't help that much. Differences between east and west are still enormous.
WTF!??!? Boroda just told me there was little to none difference between east and the west.
Surely you're lying.
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Originally posted by Redwing
But well, I'm just babbling. Given the fact that this bbs is so full of people constantly bashing the US I think the reactions here are quite understandable (and some are actually funny indeed :))
I just wanted to add my perspective and maybe some background info. I like my country, believe in our democracy and try to keep my optimism and hopes up for the future.
Thanks Redwing, nice information. I lived in Decature Alabama in 1980 when the unemployment rate was 13 percent. So my original reaction to the German rate was based on personal knowledge of what a very high unemployment rate means. As a member of the United Steel Workers I saw my union pretty much destroy the company we worked for.
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Originally posted by oboe
However, I have to observe that the first democracy started in Germany following WWI didn't take hold, and the result of that failure led to the most destructive war this planet has ever known.
There's a reason for that - The Treaty of Versailles. Under the terms of that treaty, the defeated nations were made to pay punitive war reparations. The terms were so harsh that Germany was simply finished. In 1923 when Germany defaulted on its reparation payments, the French Army occupied the Ruhr. The German government had to borrow as much money as it could to pay the war debt, and when it could borrow no more, it took the only other course of action left open: It "monetised" the debt, by which is meant that it simply prints the money - in Germany's case without security. The result was the hyperinflation of 1923 - the highest rate of inflation ever seen.
The result? People's life savings were wiped out. The economy was in ruins, and social unrest escalated. This coincided with the emergence of Hitler, who was quick to blame Jews and lefties for Germany's predicament. The Nazi party grew and grew, and was delivered another fillip in the form of the 1929 Wall St. stock market crash. By 1933, the Nazi position is unassailable, with Hitler becoming chancellor that year. The rest you know...
Some interesting links
- Hyperinflation in 1923 Germany (http://www.usagold.com/germannightmare.html) - an interesting study of Germany's problems following the Treaty of Versailles, with interesting comparisons with America (and the deficit) of modern times.
- The rise of Adolf Hitler (http://www.moreorless.au.com/killers/hitler.htm) - catapulted to power by the Germany's economic crisis of the 1920s.
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Originally posted by beet1e
...The result? People's life savings were wiped out. The economy was in ruins, and social unrest escalated. This coincided with the emergence of Hitler, who was quick to blame Jews and lefties for Germany's predicament. The Nazi party grew and grew, and was delivered another fillip in the form of the 1929 Wall St. stock market crash. By 1933, the Nazi position is unassailable, with Hitler becoming chancellor that year. The rest you know...
Thanks Beetle, that's interesting history and great reading. It's interesting to note that Hitler, monster that he was, rose to power in a democracy! Yet our leaders are constantly reassuring us the the democratization of the Middle East will solve the region's (and thus a host of the world's) problems.
Kinda makes you wonder, doesn't it? Or it least it should. We are spending a hell of alot of money (money that we don't have) on this endeavor.
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Nice post Red Wing.
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Originally posted by ygsmilo
Nice post Red Wing.
yes it was.
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Good post Redwing!
I must say that I've enjoyed every single minute of being in Germany. It's the cleanest, tidiest, safest, cheapest, best looking girls country I've ever been to! :) Oh and the beer culture is simply fantastic! Homer Simpson would be happy with the beer! :)
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Originally posted by Sandman
I'm patiently waiting for a German citizen to point out that he doesn't care what Americans think about his country and that Americans should mind their own business.
Hold your breath, we want to see you turn blue
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Krusher, what you're saying does have truth to it. Lately there has been an undeniable growth in ultra-right wing support here. Their party (NPD) even managed to take the 5% hurdle and entered the state parliament in saxony last fall. They're nothing more than a vocal nuisance, at least in total numbers and wouldn't stand a chance in a federal election. Still I don't think its coincidence that they managed to enter a state parliament in an eastern german state that is suffering from high unemployment.
Lack of perspective drives people towards extremists, and that's what I consider to be really dangerous about it.
There will always be neo nazi wackos, everywhere. What's dangerous about them isn't the few skinhead-retards. What's dangerous is the average joe who lost all his belief in politics after being unemployed for 5 years and votes for them. Give these people a perspective and they're not gonna vote ultra-right anymore.
hope that made sense, i had a couple beers after reading replicant's post :)
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Originally posted by Replicant
Good post Redwing!
I must say that I've enjoyed every single minute of being in Germany. It's the cleanest, tidiest, safest, cheapest, best looking girls country I've ever been to! :) Oh and the beer culture is simply fantastic! Homer Simpson would be happy with the beer! :)
You should have come to the Eurocon! It was held in Baarlo, which is only 2km from the German border. We went on a tour, and visited battlefields which featured in the campaign to liberate the Netherlands from the Nazis. On Friday, Tomato and I took a time out to visit Cologne. I thought it was similar to Frankfurt, though the Cathedral was somewhat more exotic. Damned nice building actually.
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Originally posted by beet1e
There's a reason for that - The Treaty of Versailles. Under the terms of that treaty, the defeated nations were made to pay punitive war reparations. The terms were so harsh that Germany was simply finished. I
Harsh ? have you read the 1870 or 1812 treaties ?
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Originally posted by babek-
In January 2005 Germany has changed the definition of "jobless people".
Before this day the so called "Sozialhilfeempfänger" were not counted in german statistics as jobless people.
Now both goups are mixed to one and thats the reason for the sudden increase of 1 million in the statistics.
Without this effect Germany would have the same 4 million jobless people like under the rule of chancellor Kohl.
"The jobless rolls jumped 161,000 to a total of 5.22m, or 11.7pc of the workforce. It follows a rise in French unemployment to double digit levels in January, suggesting that the eurozone as a whole is struggling to cope with the effects of the strong currency and a higher oil price.
The grim figures came as the OECD warned that France, Germany, and other European states needed urgent reform of their labour markets, and telecommunications, electricity, and transport industries to avoid falling ever further behind the United States. [/b]
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Wow, this was a long word.
oh well, seems the thread is over.
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You fail oneword. Using the same practice you might as well cut and paste words and put them together into a sentance, paragraph or essay.
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well... I for one feel betrayed the the viking contingent of economists and soothsayers didn't predict this whole economic disaster. Seems they were too focused on another country to notice what was going on right under their noses.
lazs
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their phone lines or whatever they're using for their internet connections probably froze.
it was -30 C (-22 F) here last night, and I'm hundreds of miles south of them. They're probably approaching something around 0 K right now.
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Redwing (and others) - I found this article rather interesting. Sums it up nicely, and goes a long way to explain why many people, myself included, will be voting NO to the EU constitution - not that our votes will count for anything by the time that happens.
Norway - you are WELL out of this mess.
City Comment (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2005/03/04/ccom04.xml) It's hard to blame the European Central Bank for leaving eurozone interest rates unchanged for the 22nd month in a row. If Germany desperately needs easy money to tackle the worst slump since the 1930s, France and Spain certainly don't.
Negative real interest rates have fuelled a housing boom in both countries. Neither can use the interest rate lever to slow things down and the ECB's downward revision of growth yesterday for the eurozone only masks the pain of one-size-fits-all monetarism. While German property prices fell by 1.6pc last year, French and Spanish property were up by 16pc and 17pc respectively.
Consumer credit is on fire in the southern eurozone; liquidity is swimming around searching for a home and the money supply is rising fast. Jean-Claude Trichet, the ECB's president, may have done Germany a favour yesterday by insisting that he sees no threat from inflation but his own economists are warning that holding rates at "very low levels" poses a major medium term risk.
This decoupling of the French and German economies was not supposed to happen. The architects of the euro always assumed that the ECB could set interest rates to suit the "Franco-German core", leaving peripheral economies to manage as best they could. Now France and Germany are behaving as two separate economies, the central bank is stuck. Far from converging, the eurozone states are diverging, with simultaneous overheating and recession. Welcome to the reality of monetary union.
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You know, I gotta admit that I do like the european idea. Not because I'm somehow hoping for europe to become a "superpower" and some kind of political global player. Couldn't care less about that. These things don't affect me.
But I do think that the union and it's predecessors are partly to thank for one of the longest periods of peace in europe ever.
Of course, the cold war was also very much a reason for this to happen, and I also know that ex-Yugoslavia and Kosovo are in europe.
But still, I stand by my words. I'm german, so I probably do have a different perspective on all that than most other europeans. I just thought that it was a great moment to see our chancellor invited and taking part in last years D-Day celebrations and I do think that this maybe wouldn't have happened without the union and it's humble beginnings in the 1950s (ECSC and the likes).
But letting all the fuzzy feel-good stuff aside, there's of course a boatload of problems arising from a united europe. Especially economical, I'll be first to acknowledge that. I also won't argue the fact that the 2 largest european countries, france and germany, are very much trying to shape the union the way they'd like it to be. Looking at it that way I probably wouldn't be favoring the european idea that much if I were not living in either of these countries.
But I do, and I will vote yes to the constitution, because I think that the general idea of a united europe that won't be going up in flames again is definately worth pursuing. Time will tell if it'll work out.