Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: OIO on March 02, 2005, 03:39:53 PM
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Read this a while back: http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_np=0&u_pg=1642&u_sid=1346946
For those too lazy to read, its about a guy who apparently has very good credentials as an inventor and a computer scientist and has won numerous awards and is an MIT graduate who claims that humanity is 20 years from achieving immortality via nano-machines that will repair your body and keep you healthy and alive indefinetely.
Whether he's a loon or is correct, his claims open pandora's box (at least for me).
So, discuss here! Imagine the immortality nano-machines were a reality today.
Imo, first off... AWESOME. Eternal life unless you get killed by anything other than natural causes.
But.... imagine the amazing changes that would bring. Good and Bad. The more I think about things the more 'bad' comes to my mind than good.
Control
The Bad: Eternal life as the ultimate drug. If you disobey whoever controls the supply of the things just has to withdraw the 'services'.
The Good: Hmmm..maybe it will reduce crime rate way down.. maybe not ;)
Overpopulation
The bad: Heck humans already overpopulate the earth. With death rates reduced to zero we'd be digging our own graves as resources become so scarce we'd be replacing death via natural causes with death via starvation or war. If we adopt the Chinese solution of 1 child per couple maybe we can do it... but..... 1 kid for all eternity?
The Good: I cant think of any.
Effects of increased (or endlesS) lifespans:
The Bad: Its kinda funny but the bad things i can think of all come from sci-fi and fantasy books.
Science fiction says that the eternal lifespans would cause the human race to stop its evolution...cause if you dont breed your genes dont mutate and (hopefully) improve with each generation. Yes, we can be immortal and breed like mad bunnies but imo the birth rates would go waaaay down if you live forever and keep spawning more immortals in a planet that is already strained from overpopulation.
Fantasy books usually have elves as the immortal race... and the problems the authors put foward are usually about psychological issues (too many memories, ritualization of every single aspect of life since life dragged on and on, boredom and the subsequent degradation of morality as people 'try' different things, etc).
The good: welp, maybe we can finally take that trip to another star system in a 10,000 year trip and we could expect to be alive when we get there.. just bring plenty of twinkies in the cargo hold ;)
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Hmmm.. if you live forever, why would you need to reproduce at all?
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A major crisis in the case of imortality, boredom. Followed by ennui and real stupid ways to entertain one self.
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<<>>>
thats the first thing i thought of, it would answer the over population problem, "humans populate the galaxey".
20 years ? i better start taking better care of myself.
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Originally posted by Maverick
A major crisis in the case of imortality, boredom. Followed by ennui and real stupid ways to entertain one self.
but mav, we could play AHxxx on the holo-deck!!
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Originally posted by john9001
but mav, we could play AHxxx on the holo-deck!!
Make it so!
Talk about immersion!
:D
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Soon as they can stop the telomeres of cells from shortening, we can live forever.
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Everyone knows that consumption of oxygen causes old age, so as soon as we cut down all these pesky trees, we're all gonna live a lot longer.
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Originally posted by john9001
but mav, we could play AHxxx on the holo-deck!!
If there was a holo-deck you'd never get me outta there. There would be a need to mop the floor every so often though.
;)
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Originally posted by Sandman
Hmmm.. if you live forever, why would you need to reproduce at all?
Thats the kind of thing i said above. You wont age or die from natural causes BUT you can still die from accidents or violence and stuff.
If you dont breed... evolution stops.
If you live forever you'll reach a point where you're so bored I think you'd be willing to spawn several planet's worth of kids just for the novelty of it.
Besides, you really think you will live forever and not want to have kids? honestly.
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imagine, you are 900 years old, with all the knowledge you gained during 900 years,
how can a new born compete at all?
social structures have to be rewritten complete new,
and what if your wife had an fatality accident after living togheter for 900 years?
I dont know.
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good points ghost.
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Originally posted by Curval
If there was a holo-deck you'd never get me outta there. There would be a need to mop the floor every so often though.
;)
Didnt some star trek characters on one of the shows pretend to be pilots in the bob on the holodeck?
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Sounds good to me.... unless they cancel sex.
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we are not made of the same material as we were the day that we were born.
how many of you can remember back then?
to me, the most interesting questions about the length of life are of memories.
who knows what our specs are there.
and i wonder, what of the mind? can it be transfered? are we the sum of our parts?
a brain transplant?
what is the oldest living creature on earth?
how do you tell when the apples keep falling from trees and springing up again. and again.
as far as memory...where do you draw the line?
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p.s. - omaha is my home town. of course he is right.
;)
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Who wants to live forever?
( sung in a "Queen" style )
:D
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There can be only one. ;)
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Eternal life?
Guess Vladimir Putin would be the president of Russia forever
Not sure about J W Bush - looks like he can get some problems here ;)
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Isn't it GW Bush?
Not sure about him either but this is a thread about immortality and thank the lord he and other politicians are mortal.
:aok
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I... have doubts that we will become immortal anytime soon. I think it's very possible, even likely, that a mechanism will be created within our lifetime (or that of our children) that removes 'old age' as a method of dying, but I think that a few posters really nailed the chief cause of death that would replace it: boredom.
Specifically, the older you get, the more new things you would need to do to stay interested in life. If society doesn't change fast enough to keep you 'stocked up' on new things to try/new skills to learn, then eventually humanity would reach a point where people either suicide or effectively suicide by trying things that are absolutely foolhardy, because it's the only way to get any sort of rush/feel something.
Basically, maybe the lifespan would end up doubled or more, but a mixture of accidents and suicides would make it so that all but the most commited would be alive to see their 300th.
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Human evolution would stagnate. No purpose would be served...except to make us narcissistic
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Perhaps this is also the answer to the immortal question "Where are they?!" that anyone who sees the Drake Equation asks. Everyone who survives the nuclear/biological/nano weapon stages ends up immortal and collapses within themselves, trying to stay interested in life through the creation of countless new mindless games. Eg, video games as the downfall of civilization because that's the only medium for creating things that are 'new'.
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Now the question is, would you choose to be immortal?
I'd say no. (Very grecian mythology / Tolkienish) But mortality was given to us as a gift.
Of course you can look at it the optimistic way. Everyone right now is what's called, "Grand Piano Immortal." Meaning their immortal, as long as a Grand Piano isn't dropped on them. But what's to say that a grand piano isn't sickness or old age?
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Didnt some star trek characters on one of the shows pretend to be pilots in the bob on the holodeck?
Maybe...but that's not "quite" what I had in mind. ;)
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Originally posted by Gh0stFT
and what if your wife had an fatality accident after living togheter for 900 years?
My guess is you'd be having one hell of a party :D
Marriage for 900 years has to go to be one of the major contributing factors against immortality!
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Originally posted by Skydancer
Isn't it GW Bush?
Not sure about him either but this is a thread about immortality and thank the lord he and other politicians are mortal.
:aok
Sorry - GW - my apology.
But with the implementing of immortality some politicians would like to become immortal i guess. I see some problems here.
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I'd choose the treatment that would remove old age as the killer. I'd like to control that aspect of my own mortality. If it doesn't protect me from the falling piano, that's ok, it'll leave me better off then I was before.
If it turns out that I only have 150 years of stuff to do, then I excercise one of the few remaining rights that humans retain.
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Originally posted by Curval
Maybe...but that's not "quite" what I had in mind. ;)
I'm sure other characters had fantasies of being Airheads carribian maids just like you...
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after 150 years, you'd get rediculously bored and end up spending the next 300 learning every skill imaginable...then start playing with "perfect" societies...then just to stop the boredom, we'd start playing rediculous livefire war games...
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If nanotechnology were to be developed to aid in extending human life on earth, I would imagine the same technology has applications elsewhere. For example, getting off this rock and aiding in survival in conditions unlike earth. Bored with earth? Fine, go somewhere else.
Besides that...
Everyone has their individual definition and vision/fantasy/whatever of immortality. Boredom, exploration, et cetera. We're looking at it from this small perspective of the present. In order for us to answer even slightly on the same page, we would need a more detailed scenerio than, "Bam!! Humanity is immortal, deal with it!" As of now, some might see it as magic. What is magic? Art Clark says "Technology sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from magic." Tell someone from the early 20th century we'd be surfing around this virtual place called the internet and describe ALL the shenanigans and goings on of the entire web... let alone a bunch of geeks surfing for pr0n and arguing endlessly on a flight sim's BBS. That might be a lot to take in.
I would imagine the deveopment of nanotechnology would not reach a level so advanced as to stymie aging all at once. That would be the pinnacle of nanotechnology - all areas converge to this all encompassing process. Stages leading up to this convergent time would extend the impulse and soften the blow. It would seem only logical to blend all of hte various aspects and see what kind of gas mileage we get. Further, faster, better.
In what sort of applications would nanotechnology be of use? Pry safe to say hundreds if not thousands of applications can be thought of in less than a month's time. A few things are pretty easy... look at Deus Ex :)
Realistically, I wouldn't mind some sort of a tap into the optic nerve for a heads up display in your vision.
Some who are keen on the Gaia theory think the internet is a primitive nervous system for the planet and we all live in some symbiotic coexistence. Gaia, earth, is becoming aware of itself through tiny eyes (humans). Imagine a massive network which allows all humans to tap into and communicate. We could evolve past primitive spoken language... communication through other, more thorough means for better understanding. Think of telepathy through nanotechnology :)
I could go on and on. Basically, I don't think boredom is a good answer. Should this happen, it's not going to be like flipping a switch.
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i think you are right in that it isnt going to be a flick of the switch.
but i might say, "same as it ever was".
of course the future is odd to us, and there is a certain selfishness that is automatically attatched to the question.
the "I" living forever.
i really don't think that is possible. the piano (as it were) exists somewhere in that long string of moments. either by the hand of the universe or by the inability for the life force to continue. to be truly immortal one would have to be completely impervious to EVERYTHING. given the nature of man and the environment, i would suggest that immortality would become a subject of contention like everything else. the worst result being, there ends up being "only one"
thats where boredom will really set in.
i would also have to rethink my reasoning which says, "at worst, anything that i screw up now...i will only have to suffer for 60 years, tops."
a drop in the bucket of time.
the seed is what replenishes us.
i would not want to live forever.
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Eternal life?
Too much porn for me.;)
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Makes one wonder whats worth more - 80,000 years of hell or 5 seconds of heaven. I think I'll reject living forever out of hand.
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don't have time to read the whole thread.
http://www.gen.cam.ac.uk/sens/
JB88, some people are just a lot more straightforward than that.
I know I could come up with a thousand years of things to do within a month or a year at most.
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and the first quoted guy in the OP has a site of hiw own:
http://kurzweilai.net
Among other things, it chronicles advancements towards the "singularity".
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Originally posted by moot
don't have time to read the whole thread.
http://www.gen.cam.ac.uk/sens/
JB88, some people are just a lot more straightforward than that.
I know I could come up with a thousand years of things to do within a month or a year at most.
more straightforward than what moot?
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Originally posted by SunTracker
Soon as they can stop the telomeres of cells from shortening, we can live forever.
lol I was about to say Immortality is impossible. ^^^ that is why.
good read; GENOME by Matt Ridley ISBN 0-06-093290-2
chapter, well ummmm, page 195 Chromosome 14
Immortality
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Err... not if I have to WORK for another 900 years + ! NO WAY JOSE!!!111 :mad:
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I don't know about you but I plan to live forever.. :D
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My goal, if physical immortality is impossible, is to immortalize myself in my writings. My plan involves creating two online personalities, Locke and Demosthenes. I'll pit the two against each other on Usenet and various boards to further my idealogy and create legions of supporters. Then, when my military genius sibling defeats an imminent threat and through their actions indirectly throws the world governments into chaos, I'll have my supporters call for my Locke persona to come forth and bring order to the planet. I will reluctantly accept the title of... I haven't chosen between Hegemon or God Emperor yet... and then lead the peoples of the world to a brave new future.
By then, I hope to wield enough influence to have Enterprise brought back to television and the Me-323 Gigant added to HTC. Basically, that's all I want.
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Stand up Ender......... oh wait you are standing.
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Technically, it would be 'stand up Peter'. :D
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Read Time Enough For Love by Heinlein. Interesting sci-fi piece covering this topic.
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Since the human wang has a shelf life, I'll assume for atleast 300 of those 600 years every man will be taking Viagra.
I'd buy stocks in Viagra.
-SW
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Live forever? nope. who could deal with traffic on the Palmetto or on I-95. think of the road rage. OHHHHHH the humanity.
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So far, I've proven to be immortal.
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too many people who are afraid of death running our lives right now..... imagine if you could only die from accidents or risky behavior... what a wussy world that would be.
lazs
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not only the whole genome thing which i have read a tiny bit about...
but neurons. as age progresses naturally the synapses fire less and less, with weaker intensity. we can not figure out how to fix this now by "hand" so to say, how are we going to program tiny things to do something we don't even know how to do?
there's too many things it will take us millenium to figure out fully, and without the basic knowledge of how it works how will be able to explain it, or do it ourselves?
never will happen.
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"there's too many things it will take us millenium to figure out fully, and without the basic knowledge of how it works how will be able to explain it, or do it ourselves?"
Yet we went from not having a clue how to fly to putting a man on the moon and building several space stations...
in about 100 years. Without computers speeding things along.
Now.. its a whole new ball game.
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mankind. the greatest of all procrastinators.
:)
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about boredom JB88.
Not sure what you meant about the seed.