Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Mickey1992 on March 04, 2005, 02:00:55 PM
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Wow. Does anything go right in Iraq? :confused:
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U.S. Forces Kill Italian Agent After Reporter Freed
ROME (Reuters) - U.S. forces fired at a car carrying Italian reporter Giuliana Sgrena shortly after her liberation, killing an Italian secret service agent and lightly wounding the journalist, her newspaper said on Friday.
Gabriele Polo, the editor of Il Manifesto newspaper, said Sgrena's car was fired on as it made its way to Baghdad airport.
"This news which should have be a moment of celebration, has been ruined by this fire fight," Polo told Sky Italia television.
"An Italian agent has been killed by an American bullet. A tragic demonstration which we never wanted that everything that's happening in Iraq (news - web sites) is completely senseless and mad," he added, struggling to fight back his tears.
The Italian President Carlo Azeglio Ciampi sent his condolences to the family of the dead agent, who was named by Il Manifesto's Polo as Nicola Calipari.
Sgrena was seized in the Iraqi capital on Feb. 4 as she conducted interviews on the street near Baghdad University.
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not even details to draw any conclusion but enough for reuters to try to slam US again
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And why exactly was an Italian secret service agent operating in Iraq without coordinating with local security forces? I'm guessing out of fears of Italian security being compromised by involving the US military.
Still, the car should've stopped.
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What about that article was "slamming" the US?
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Originally posted by SOB
What about that article was "slamming" the US?
Thou shalt not speaketh of nor linketh to any stories that identify mistakes made by U.S. military... EVAR.
Support the troops!
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Eagler :
not even details to draw any conclusion but enough for reuters to try to slam US again
Hitting that methane again and again I see..
Heres your details..:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4320111.stm
"Italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena has been taken to a hospital in Baghdad with gunshot wounds shortly after being released from her kidnappers in Iraq.
Ms Sgrena was being driven to Baghdad airport when a US patrol fired at the car, injuring the journalist in the shoulder and killing an officer.
The man, Nicola Calipari, had taken part in the operation to free her.
Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi confirmed on Italian television that the agent had been killed by US fire.
The prime minister added he had "immediately" summoned the US ambassador, adding he would have to "clarify the behaviour of the US troops for such a serious incident, for which someone will have to take responsibility".
Or this:
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050304/D88KC7C00.html
Or this:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/03/04/iraq.main/
I concur its a frame job..
:rolleyes: yeah thats it...
DoctorYo
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Is it too early to blame it on first-person-shooter video games?
Seriously tho, I suspect there was something that triggered a violent response from the US patrol that isn't being mentioned.
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Yeah, I googled it, and another story said it happened at/near a checkpoint. With the suicidal whackos, I'm sure just driving a car toward a checkpoint is enough to make 'em nervous. A story also said the U.S. was waiting to comment until they investigate, so that's probably why the lack of further details.
I think the soldiers at the checkpoint must've been playing GTA3!
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Interesting how the assumption is that the U.S. soldiers made the only errors and are solely responsible. Assumes facts not in evidence. Speaks volumes about those who post such.
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WTF are you babbling about?
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Originally posted by SOB
WTF are you babbling about?
If I have to point it out to you, then you'll never see it. If you are thinking my statement was in reference to your post, it was not. Any more questions? Seek your own answers.
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The latest news here, Nicola Calipari the italian Agent throw his
body over the hostage while the shooting begun, he saved her live.
Hostage is free for the cost of another live :\
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LOL, I had no idea that you were a woman. "Well if you don't know, I'm certainly not going to tell you!"
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Originally posted by SOB
LOL, I had no idea that you were a woman. "Well if you don't know, I'm certainly not going to tell you!"
I had no idea you were a freaking moron. Go hump yourself senseless, idiot. I'll waste no more time on you.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
I had no idea you were a freaking moron. Go hump yourself senseless, idiot. I'll waste no more time on you.
Now you're just being a big meanie. Continue on with your paranoia, I won't dare type to you any more, for fear of upsetting you further.
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If anyone from this Board was at the location when this happened please give us the details. Other than that.....
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Haha, SOB got the Captain all worked up.
Now its time for some soft music, candles, and a bubble bath to mend his feelings.
Careful Captain, when SOB says he lost his Rubber Duckie, he'll search for it with his mouth.
-SW
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Heres some detail
According to a multinational forces statement, the car approached the checkpoint at high speed about 9 p.m. (1 p.m. ET)
U.S. troops "attempted to warn the driver to stop by hand and arm signals, flashing white lights, and firing warning shots in front of the car," the statement said. "When the driver didn't stop, the soldiers shot into the engine block, which stopped the vehicle, killing one and wounding two others
Thats from the CNN link at top. I have no idea why he would think its ok to race at high speed at a checkpoint. Its a tradgedy that could have been avoided.
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Originally posted by Raider179
Thats from the CNN link at top. I have no idea why he would think its ok to race at high speed at a checkpoint. Its a tradgedy that could have been avoided.
he thought he was bond , james bond.
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obviously it was something along those lines. If that CNN link is true than the driver/agent is at fault. You dont go speeding at Troops in Badhdad, your gonna have a bad day.
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Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
Haha, SOB got the Captain all worked up.
Now its time for some soft music, candles, and a bubble bath to mend his feelings.
Careful Captain, when SOB says he lost his Rubber Duckie, he'll search for it with his mouth.
-SW
I'm not at all worked up. I just have no patience for stupidity and arrogance.
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Originally posted by Raider179
According to a multinational forces statement, the car approached the checkpoint at high speed about 9 p.m. (1 p.m. ET)
U.S. troops "attempted to warn the driver to stop by hand and arm signals, flashing white lights, and firing warning shots in front of the car," the statement said. "When the driver didn't stop, the soldiers shot into the engine block, which stopped the vehicle, killing one and wounding two others
There's a big surprise. Surely it was the fault of the soldiers at the checkpoint. Afterall, they're all bloodthirsty trigger happy American cowboys.
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You would think that the Italians would have past along word that they would be coming that way.
Very sad event indeed but remember the 18year olds that are put in this horrible possition of taking lives.
I really can't blame the military on this.
A tragic accident.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
I had no idea you were a freaking moron. Go hump yourself senseless, idiot. I'll waste no more time on you.
If you used a credit card to pay for those anger management sessions you can probably still get them to stop payment.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
I'm not at all worked up. I just have no patience for stupidity and arrogance.
And you hang out here? :p Well we appreciate you bowing and enduring us!
Now tell SOB you're sorry before he makes a voodoo doll of you and does evil things to it.
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Iraq = Big mistake for Bush and Blair!
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Originally posted by myelo
If you used a credit card to pay for those anger management sessions you can probably still get them to stop payment.
Two problems with your little theory. One, I don't have a credit card. Two, I'm not angry. Annoyed? Yes. Angry? No. No one here is worth getting angry over.
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i'm not an angry person.
i can quit anytime.
Golly-geeMED KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!
(wheeeeeeez)
(inhaler)
ahhhhhhh.
see!?
:)
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my mistake...
I'd gotten less hassle from the likes of yo if I'd just agreeded with the slanted reuters article and blamed mean ole bad oppressive US military for the incident
like I said, all the facts are not in, sorry rooters and the bbc != all the facts
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The BBC is.......................
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I will not fault the troops for firing at an unidentified car fast approaching their checkpoint that failed to yield after having warning shots fired at it. The lady is about the luckiest person on earth today just being alive.
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I remember when a Bradley fighting vehicle blew apart that van full of women and kids a year or two ago. Couple things went wrong in that incident. First, the Bradley didnt fire a warning shot. Supposedly the van was being ordered to drive through a checkpoint by insurgents.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
There's a big surprise. Surely it was the fault of the soldiers at the checkpoint. Afterall, they're all bloodthirsty trigger happy American cowboys.
And interestingly enough, you're the first one in this thread to make such an accusation. It truly "speaks volumes" about you. LOL.
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I have several first and second hand accounts of U.S. tanks blowing apart car loads of civilians in Iraq without firing a warning shot. I will gladly post them if needed.
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I saw some video of a car getting shot at a checkpoint (Fronline). The car was approaching the checkpoint so fast that a second after warning shots were fired the car had allready crossed the trigger line and everybody started shooting it. Then the handsomehunkes never did stop or get out of the car, instead they threw it in reverse and backed away.
If iraqis drive anything like saudis or kuwaitis, it would be very difficult to discern normal driving from suicidal driving.
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Article from NewMax (http://newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/3/6/81539.shtml)
I can hear her now....
Driver: "It's an American Checkpoint. I have to stop."
Sgrena: "F--k the American's. Get me to the Airport so I can file my story. Go... Go..."
Bam... Bam... Boom.....!!!
End of that story..
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Originally posted by SOB
And interestingly enough, you're the first one in this thread to make such an accusation. It truly "speaks volumes" about you. LOL.
You can't read. 'nuff said.
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One of her interview subjects claimed that women and children were being systematically tortured at Abu Ghraib by Americans, who, she said, repeatedly hurled one Iraqi woman against a wall and forced another "to separate faeces from urine, using her own hands."
"And what about children, how were they treated?" Sgrena asked. "We heard them screaming. They were tortured too. Mostly dogs were set on them," her source claimed.
This part *might* be true, but only because armies usually put the most incompetent in control of the prisoners.
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Originally posted by SunTracker
I remember when a Bradley fighting vehicle blew apart that van full of women and kids a year or two ago. Couple things went wrong in that incident. First, the Bradley didnt fire a warning shot. Supposedly the van was being ordered to drive through a checkpoint by insurgents.
And the warning shot would have done what?
And the guys in the Bradley were supposed to know hostages were being forced by "insurgents" :rolleyes: how?
I guess the guys in the Bradley were supposed to let the van drive up so the insurgents could make whatever attack they were planning.
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Originally posted by GScholz
Giuliana Sgrena (the hostage) has refuted the claims that they were driving fast and that they were warned by the US forces. She says they were fired upon by a US tank without warning. Se also says the US forces had been informed of their impending arrival.
Somebody F'ed up (staring to become more of a bad habit than just accidents now).
And she knows the soldiers at the check point knew she was coming? How?
Jeezus this gets old.
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by SunTracker
This part *might* be true, but only because armies usually put the most incompetent in control of the prisoners.
Yes... and Elvis 'might' be alive.... You 'might' know what you're talking about and I 'might' be Rich and Good Looking.
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They might have tried notifying those folks instead of zooming off down a red sector like fools. Stupidity has its price. Sometimes its pretty high.
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Originally posted by GScholz
If the soldiers at the checkpoint didn't know she was coming ... then somebody F'ed up.
There's someone out there who failed to pass over such a trifling piece of information to the rank and file. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
You can't read. 'nuff said.
Actually, I just choose not to creatively interpret to suit my own agenda. In that regard, you do quite well. Hell, you should try writing out your own threads, complete with responses in favor and in opposition to the subject of your thread!
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Originally posted by GScholz
So you're saying that a foreign intelligence agent transporting a freed hostage to an American airbase is not something the checkpoint should have been informed of? Stupid.
Why is it only US troops that seem to be involved in incidents like these? Statistically shouldn't the British and even Poles have F'ed up a couple of times by now?
I realize your brilliant Ameristalking education makes you
naturally superior to an American moron like myself, but I would
think that having many many more troops in effected areas
might skew the odds a bit.
Please don't let that interfere with your historical bias though.
Would be a shame to let a little thing like logic hamper a nice
political platform.
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Originally posted by GScholz
Why is it only US troops that seem to be involved in incidents like these? Statistically shouldn't the British and even Poles have F'ed up a couple of times by now?
1) We'd have to put the Poles and the British in the middle of Bagdad before we could answer that question.
2) How do you know that U.S. troops F'ed up..?
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Originally posted by GScholz
So you're saying that a foreign intelligence agent transporting a freed hostage to an American airbase is not something the checkpoint should have been informed of? Stupid.
Why is it only US troops that seem to be involved in incidents like these? Statistically shouldn't the British and even Poles have F'ed up a couple of times by now?
What I say is the usual lax of security precautions on the part of the americans when CIA does not like the things their allies are doing. :eek:
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from what I heard today she says it wasnt a checkpoint but soldiers on patrol.
However, Italian magistrate Franco Ionta said Sgrena disagreed with the military account.
"It wasn't a checkpoint, but a patrol that shot as soon [as] they lit us up with a spotlight. We didn't know where the bullets were coming from. We had not met other checkpoints before. Our car was absolutely not traveling at high speed," she said.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/03/05/iraq.main/?section=cnn_world
also heard they paid 1 million for her.
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Originally posted by Raider179
from what I heard today she says it wasnt a checkpoint but soldiers on patrol.
However, Italian magistrate Franco Ionta said Sgrena disagreed with the military account.
"It wasn't a checkpoint, but a patrol that shot as soon [as] they lit us up with a spotlight. We didn't know where the bullets were coming from. We had not met other checkpoints before. Our car was absolutely not traveling at high speed," she said.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/03/05/iraq.main/?section=cnn_world
also heard they paid 1 million for her.
Wonder what they'll buy with the money?
:rolleyes:
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A whole CRAPLOAD of paddleball games?!
(http://store.rebeccas.com/store/images/PZ572.jpg)
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Think it's hardly suprising that they got shot up by US troops, they don't exactly have the greatest record through history when it comes to shooting friendlies. Always reminds me of.
When then Germans start shooting the Brits woudl take cover, when the Brits start shooting the Germans would take cover and when the US starts shooting everyone takes cover. :lol
...-Gixer
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Interesting how many people automatically assume the woman's story is gospel,and the rest is a screw up,cover up,take your pick.
It's amazing that every single car that approaches the checkpoint isn't blasted...unless the woman's story isn't 100% accurate.
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Originally posted by Gixer
Think it's hardly suprising that they got shot up by US troops, they don't exactly have the greatest record through history when it comes to shooting friendlies. Always reminds me of.
When then Germans start shooting the Brits woudl take cover, when the Brits start shooting the Germans would take cover and when the US starts shooting everyone takes cover. :lol
...-Gixer
In New Zealand, the Sheep don't take cover. They just run as fast as they can screaming "Daddy's coming...."
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Originally posted by Sox62
It's amazing that every single car that approaches the checkpoint isn't blasted...
Well, in this case the car was full of westerners, not of expendable Iraqis.
Anyway, I can understand the fear of the soldiers, I may do the same, in a similar situation, shoot first, then ask, too dangerous to let them come too close.
BTW, seem that it was'nt a checkpoint.
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Originally posted by Naso
Well, in this case the car was full of westerners, not of expendable Iraqis.
Anyway, I can understand the fear of the soldiers, I may do the same, in a similar situation, shoot first, then ask, too dangerous to let them come too close.
BTW, seem that it was'nt a checkpoint.
how do you know it wasn't a checkpoint? There seem to be several versions of the story , how do you know the one you choose to believe is the true one?
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Originally posted by Naso
BTW, seem that it was'nt a checkpoint.
Possibly.We'll know soon enough.In both CNN articles that is what she claims.That doesn't automatically make it true.
But both CNN articles state that "Multi-National Forces opened fire on a vehicle APPROACHING a checkpoint at a high speed."
They also state that "U.S. troops "attempted to warn the driver to stop by hand and arm signals, flashing white lights, and firing warning shots in front of the car," the statement said. "When the driver didn't stop, the soldiers shot into the engine block, which stopped the vehicle, killing one and wounding two others."
She claims they were fired upon as soon as the patrol lit them up with a spotlight.
First;were they actually fired at,or were those just warning shots?
Second;when the driver didn't stop,they didn't try to kill the occupants,they shot at the engine block.(They claim at least)
Tragic,yes,but since these soldiers have had car bomb after car bomb blown up in an attempt to kill them as well as Iraqi's,I just think we should give them the benefit of the doubt until all of the facts are out.
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Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
how do you know it wasn't a checkpoint? There seem to be several versions of the story , how do you know the one you choose to believe is the true one?
I have used the word "seem" to express my ignorance of the truth.
Maybe I have choosen the wrong words, help me to learn some more english (no irony here, i'm really asking if there was a better expression to use).
I have yet to choose a version, but I had to point that there's another version than the checkpoint's one.... just that.
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Originally posted by Sox62
Possibly.We'll know soon enough.
In both CNN articles that is what she claims.That doesn't automatically make it true.
But both CNN articles state that "Multi-National Forces opened fire on a vehicle APPROACHING a checkpoint at a high speed."
They also state that "U.S. troops "attempted to warn the driver to stop by hand and arm signals, flashing white lights, and firing warning shots in front of the car," the statement said. "When the driver didn't stop, the soldiers shot into the engine block, which stopped the vehicle, killing one and wounding two others."
She claims they were fired upon as soon as the patrol lit them up with a spotlight.
Sincerely, what she claim is of little interest for me, for various reasons and we can talk about it later.
What really bother me, is that the surviving agents claim the same version (with the exception of the "deliberate killing attempt" part, that is almost umbelievable).
First;were they actually fired at,or were those just warning shots?
Second;when the driver didn't stop,they didn't try to kill the occupants,they shot at the engine block.(They claim at least)
Tragic,yes,but since these soldiers have had car bomb after car bomb blown up in an attempt to kill them as well as Iraqi's,I just think we should give them the benefit of the doubt until all of the facts are out.
This is what I... we all, I guess, want to know, and we have too few informations.
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Agreed.We all want to know.
I'm not buying the deliberate killing attempt though.I'm pretty sure if the soldiers intent was to kill the occupants of the car,none of them would be alive to make that claim.
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OK,
To wrap this up...
No one here really knows what actually happened.
We all seem to agree that things did not work out as well as it should have.
It's too early to point fingers one way or another since "blame" is dependent on knowing the facts, which we do not.
She is exploiting the death of a much better person than her to forward her personal interests. Naso, I think you will find that is the main point here.
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Yep.
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Originally posted by GScholz
Giuliana Sgrena (the hostage) has refuted the claims that they were driving fast and that they were warned by the US forces. She says they were fired upon by a US tank without warning. Se also says the US forces had been informed of their impending arrival.
Somebody F'ed up (starting to become more of a bad habit than just accidents now).
No. (http://reuters.myway.com/article/20050425/2005-04-25T205742Z_01_N25497833_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-IRAQ-ITALY-USA-DC.html)
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But from the report, they only disagree on comications and the car speed.
So it seems it was at a checkpoint.
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"The Army official said Italy was disputing two factual issues in the report: the speed of the car as it approached the checkpoint; and the nature of communications between the Italians and U.S. forces in Iraq before the incident."
You mean the Italians and GSholz have backed off on thier charges of deliberate murder at the hands of US Soldiers? What happened to thier claims there WAS no checkpoint? WTF??? Didn't they claim this road HAD no checkpoints? That it was a secure route directly to the Baghdad Airport?
BTW, a Santa Rosa, Calif., Marine was killed two weeks ago while manning a checkpoint along the same highway when he was shot from a car attempting to run the checkpoint. He was 21 years old, married, baby on the way.
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yeah, I believe it was at one of the "moving checkpoints" they use. The U.S. ambassador was passing that way so they might have been a little jumpy regardless you don't stop at a checkpoint in Baghdad, you are gonna have a bad day.
"Earlier Tuesday, a senior U.S. official said the checkpoint where Calipari was killed had been set up for the passage of the U.S. ambassador to Iraq on the road to the Baghdad airport"
"Ambassador John Negroponte had been expected to pass the Baghdad-area checkpoint a short time later, the official said."
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/03/08/italy.sgrena/index.html
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Thats sucks about the Marine airhead, anyplace we can donate to the family?
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Originally posted by GScholz
You mean you're a lying stunninghunk? Yeah, I guess you are.
I think we see who the liar is here...it's you in your fervent insistance that American soldiers engaged in political assination against "unfriendly" journalists.
Turns out that you are full of...well.... feces.
As usual. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by GScholz
There you go lying again. I have never suggested that the US soldiers tried to assassinate the journalist. I haven't even blamed the US soldiers for the incident; I think my last post on page one made that abundantly clear.
You're a lying POS or a dumb ****. Take your pick.
(http://www.smellypoop.com/images/photos/poop2.jpg)
:confused:
(http://www.southernangel.com/ggertie/bigb1.jpg)
:confused:
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OneWordAnswer ,
As "A picture is worth a thousand words"
you posted at least 4000 words.
You're cheating.
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Originally posted by GScholz
Why is it only US troops that seem to be involved in incidents like these? Statistically shouldn't the British and even Poles have F'ed up a couple of times by now?
Next time edit your previous posts before you deny you laid blame at the hands of the USA for this. You now look senile or retarded, you choose. ;)
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You now look senile or retarded, you choose
Umm maybe he's just an Amerihater ultra melon?
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Steve you're at again in here too.
(http://www.2000greetings.com/chill_pill.jpg)
;) :aok
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You backpedal well.
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You need a new identity- too bad Skydancer is already taken.
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WASHINGTON (AFP) - A US satellite reportedly recorded a checkpoint shooting in Iraq last month, enabling investigators to reconstruct how fast a car carrying a top Italian intelligence official and a freed hostage was traveling when US troops opened fire.
The report, which aired Thursday on CBS News, said US investigators concluded from the recording that the car was traveling at a speed of more than 60 miles (96 km) per hour.
Giuliana Sgrena has said the car was traveling at a normal speed of about 30 miles an hour when the soldiers opened fired, wounding her and killing Nicola Calipari, the Italian agent who had just secured her release from a month's captivity.
US soldiers said at the time of the March 4 incident that the car approached at a high rate of speed and that they fired only after it failed to respond to hand signals, flashing bright lights and warning shots.
The conflicting accounts were among a number of differences that have prevented US and Italian authorities from reaching agreement on what happened.
CBS, citing Pentagon officials, said the satellite recording enabled investigators to reconstruct the event without having to rely on the eyewitness accounts.
It said the soldiers manning the checkpoint first spotted the Italian car when it was 137 yards (meters) away. By the time they opened fire and brought the car to a halt, it was 46 yards (meters) away. CBS said that happened in less than three seconds, which meant the car had to be going over 60 miles an hour.
CBS said Italian investigators refused to accept that the Americans were justified in shooting so quickly, arguing among other things that the checkpoint was not properly marked.
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Originally posted by Krusher
WASHINGTON (AFP) - A US satellite reportedly recorded a checkpoint shooting in Iraq last month, enabling investigators to reconstruct how fast a car carrying a top Italian intelligence official and a freed hostage was traveling when US troops opened fire.
The report, which aired Thursday on CBS News, said US investigators concluded from the recording that the car was traveling at a speed of more than 60 miles (96 km) per hour.
Giuliana Sgrena has said the car was traveling at a normal speed of about 30 miles an hour when the soldiers opened fired, wounding her and killing Nicola Calipari, the Italian agent who had just secured her release from a month's captivity.
US soldiers said at the time of the March 4 incident that the car approached at a high rate of speed and that they fired only after it failed to respond to hand signals, flashing bright lights and warning shots.
The conflicting accounts were among a number of differences that have prevented US and Italian authorities from reaching agreement on what happened.
CBS, citing Pentagon officials, said the satellite recording enabled investigators to reconstruct the event without having to rely on the eyewitness accounts.
It said the soldiers manning the checkpoint first spotted the Italian car when it was 137 yards (meters) away. By the time they opened fire and brought the car to a halt, it was 46 yards (meters) away. CBS said that happened in less than three seconds, which meant the car had to be going over 60 miles an hour.
CBS said Italian investigators refused to accept that the Americans were justified in shooting so quickly, arguing among other things that the checkpoint was not properly marked.
The Italians dont want the facts to get in the way of their citizens anger.