Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: tikky on March 05, 2005, 12:22:43 AM
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I was flying a seafire (or spit v) and i cant fuggin dig that 38 can climb, run away, and even pull the stick way back without actually flip-floping like any typical plane. Even in lo speeds, i thought 38 is an easy kill but still turned and turned and turned and got facial shots!:rolleyes:
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Who was pilot?
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and got facial shots!
eew:(
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With two engines negating any torque steer, and massive wingspan, why would you expect a 38 to flop around?
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The G dominates the Ki-83 N1K2 and spitV
;)
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Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
The G dominates the Ki-83 N1K2 and spitV
;)
Right up to the point where they use their superior roll-rate and scissor the G into trouble.
G does feel much better in turns than the J/L, you pay for it with the reduced acceleration/climb, but I've had P38's hang in with the Ki-84 in very steep vertical climbs.... all the good 38 pilots know it.
-Soda
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I have yet to see an explantion of how an aircraft with 55lbs.sq.ft of wingloading and less powerloading will out turn a plane with 35lbs.sq.ft. of wing loading. The two props explanation doesn't make any sense. The Bf110G-2 and Mosquito, despite having lower wing loading, will not even come close. The flaps don't add that much wing area either.
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Its very uber karnak.
more i can't say
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Maybe the spit pilot sucked?
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The G dominates the Ki-83 N1K2 and spitV
I never lost a fight to a 38 in the CT last night in my uber Ki-84, I bet I landed no less that 10 P-38 kills alone.
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and even pull the stick way back without actually flip-floping like any typical plane
You obviously havent flown the 38 then ... pull that stick all the way back and you WILL create an accelerated stall that is almost impossible to recover from.
Never has a P-38 gotten inside my Spit V or SeaFire when engaged in a true 1 v 1 fight ... don't think one ever will either.
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Haven't had problems with the G in my Ki84. They are the most dangerous 38 to handle for the 84, though.
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Originally posted by Karnak
I have yet to see an explantion of how an aircraft with 55lbs.sq.ft of wingloading and less powerloading will out turn a plane with 35lbs.sq.ft. of wing loading. The two props explanation doesn't make any sense. The Bf110G-2 and Mosquito, despite having lower wing loading, will not even come close. The flaps don't add that much wing area either.
This is a game not Real Life, same as Bombers that can turnfight ( which btw wasnt possible either )
End of simple explanation :) :)
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I never lost a fight to a 38 in the CT last night in my uber Ki-84, I bet I landed no less that 10 P-38 kills alone.
Thas becuase I wasnt there:p
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i dont have much trouble killing anything in a P38G. plane is a blast to fly.
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Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
The G dominates the Ki-83 N1K2 and spitV
;)
So do the rest of the P-38s....
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
So do the rest of the P-38s....
38's sux!! :D
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for a 15000 pound plane with only 1000hp, p38g turns as sharp as spits and zeroes (even at lo speeds!). Something's wrong here...
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Originally posted by tikky
for a 15000 pound plane with only 1000hp, p38g turns as sharp as spits and zeroes (even at lo speeds!). Something's wrong here...
It actually has around 2500HP, applied by two props, but you can ignore that if you like.
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
So do the rest of the P-38s....
Yeah, well I need lessons on killin Spits and such, cause I ain't doin so hot. And yer film link is broke, sends me to some wierd site with no films.
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Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
The G dominates the Ki-83 N1K2 and spitV
;)
Wrong... the G is the easiest of the 38's to fight in the 84. The 84 can purely outmuscle the G.. it's much more difficult to deal with the J/L because of their vertical performance. The G might dominate a Ki way up high, but Ki's don't belong above 10k in the MA.
It's the pilot, not the plane.
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Originally posted by java45
This is a game not Real Life, same as Bombers that can turnfight ( which btw wasnt possible either )
End of simple explanation :) :)
The fact that in real life no bomber pilot ever tried to turnfight does not mean it is impossible... It is just plain stupid... But possible... :D
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Yesterday i was in a G alone got ganged by knit peasants.
first a Fw190D and a P38L than a 110 came in and a P47 goes HO me i got a pilot wound on that point but i just didn't want to get banged.
So i kept turning than another P38-l and another 190D came to help i found my self turning against about 5 gangers. And they all where so frustrated they all went for HO.
Damn suckers i pinged the L engine but found my self to much on the defensive so i ditched and none of the knit dweebs got a kill. This fight took more than 5 minutes.
That was a classic G moment for me .
No salutes no respect knitty gamers.
my favourite uberride skin:
I like the red line on the USA flag :)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/277_1110109033_ahss44.jpg)
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Originally posted by tikky
for a 15000 pound plane with only 1000hp, p38g turns as sharp as spits and zeroes (even at lo speeds!). Something's wrong here...
"... and zeroes (even at lo speeds)"
Now your over the edge and really trolling.
Please produce some flims of this phenomena, else pull your line out of the water or I am calling the Fish & Game Police.
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You dont understand ACM, flight path prediction, or anything that has to do with dog fighting for that matter.
I can garrantee that whoever was in the 38, was creating angles that allowed him to get guns on you.
I fly spitv's alot. I rarely try to "out turn" anyone in it. Rather I create angles based upon my apponents manuvers and try to beat him to where I know he's going to be. The same basicly goes for whatever plane I'm flying. Altho that's a turn fight, you aren't nessesarily "out turning" anyone. Your just beating him with better angles.
I will tell you right now, for a fact, that the 38G cannot in any way out turn a spitV. I'd have a hard time out turning almost all of the spits with equal pilots. Even the 9 is a great turn fighter given the knowledge of speed control, flap usage and throtle.
To put it simple... Your wrong. And you talking like a newb.
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not outturning, creating angles? so, lead turning or turning inside of nme's turn? use his speed to cause over shoot, barrel roll to cause overshoot? is this what is meant by the ever criptic "create angles"?
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NEWSFLASH!
...just tried p-38G, i did all the "ACMs" and adv ACMs and found that i can give some experienced spit (seaf, 5, and even 9) a hard time. when flaps extended all the way down or 1/3 it can loop with spit (except in climb). the 38 is also fast at deck
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Originally posted by tikky
NEWSFLASH!
...just tried p-38G, i did all the "ACMs" and adv ACMs and found that i can give some experienced spit (seaf, 5, and even 9) a hard time. when flaps extended all the way down or 1/3 it can loop with spit (except in climb). the 38 is also fast at deck
Telll me when and where u are on ... I will up a Spit V and meet ya ... I promise I won't give u a hard time ... if ya know what I mean ... :rofl
and when we get done with that, myself or Icer would love to up a Zeke and not give you a hard time too ... :D
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Yup.
Bring it.
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oooh the BKs ganging some poor guy learning about AH2.....
can i fight you in spitV also please tikky? :D
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Given more or less equal circumstances, a Spit5 or a N1K2, Ki-84-Ia will eat a P-38 alive in a slow speed fight - whatever version it is. The Ki-84-Ia, in particular, once its own superior set of fowlers extend, can do anything a P-38 can, and do it much better.
The problem with evading a P-38 is that the P-38 is more than capable of following a turn long enough to gain a firing solution once it grabs onto a certain advantage. That's where its natural advantages in torque-less maneuvering kicks in.
For instance, if a P-38G grabs hold of a Spit5 from an E-advantaged position it can turn about one full circle with it with gun solution. It means the P-38 is capable of pulling more than enough lead to get a shot in for more than a full circle. Only when the fight becomes much longer, over two circles, and the speeds go down to 100mph+/- levels, will the Spit5 start gain ground in the turn fight and manage to decisively outturn P-38s if it continues(but this is usually the point where the P-38L or a J levels out and just runs away).
Ofcourse, rarely does the fight take that long in most cases - a half circle or so and the grouped .50s and the single Hizooka usually makes short of the target.
Ofcourse, above analysis takes as a premise that most P-38s also fly higher than anything else around, so rarely would you see a successful P-38 pilot ever engage anything at co-alt, slow speed, at fairly equal starting position. No matter the big words and chest-thumping, basically, a P-38 will come from above you, and then latch on to you, denying you an equal chance in the merge. (But of course, securing the initial advantage is really the basic of all basics in ACM and that's nothing to be criticized, or be ashamed of, for both sides).
But that also means that if for any chance a SpitV or a N1K2 or a Ki-84-Ia finds a P-38 that doesn't have enough speed to run away from it, the tables will be pretty much easily turned if the particular Spit, N1K, Ki-84 pilot is a decent one. Anything the P-38 can do at a disadvantaged position, these planes can follow easily.. unless the pilot is inexperienced and doesn't know much about throttle control, rudder input, or flaps.
So basically, once you see a P-38 within 1k distance behind you and closing, you're too late to do anything. All you can hope is do whatever you can and hope the P-38 pilot sucks in gunnery, so you can turn long enough for your natural advantage in turning starts to show off. However in most cases, a half a turn and you'll probably be in flames or missing a wing.
Therefore, if somebody claims that the P-38 still matches the Spits, N1K2s, or Ki-84s in maneuvering, without the above described situation in place, that's actually the same thing as admitting the FM is entirely wrong, because there's no way a 10 thousand pound plane can match a smaller plane with better powerloading and lower wingloading toe-to-toe in every bit of slow speed maneuvering - with or without flaps.
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buncha haters!!:D
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lol:rofl :lol kewesa
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What?
If you translate the above, it actually comes down to; "it depends on the pilot to take advantage of the situation, and the P-38 is quite capable enough to create that kind of situation quite often."
Neutralizing that situation so it means nothing and the P-38 loses all relative advantage, is a tough job, whatever plane one flies in, even in a same P-38.
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Yeah, wouldnt it have been easier to just say that instead? hehe.
:lol
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Perhaps.
But that's kinda like giving sex ed. to teenagers by showing them just titties.
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Originally posted by SlapShot
and even pull the stick way back without actually flip-floping like any typical plane
You obviously havent flown the 38 then ... pull that stick all the way back and you WILL create an accelerated stall that is almost impossible to recover from.
Never has a P-38 gotten inside my Spit V or SeaFire when engaged in a true 1 v 1 fight ... don't think one ever will either.
let em keep thinking it Slappy. Nothing wrong with a little delusion.. Never let the facts get in the way of good story. ;)
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LOL, the P-38 pilots are all always higher.:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
That holds about as much water as Rooks are always higher. Same B.S., all the time.
I wish I had a nickel for every time I was above 10K and found a Spit, a Nikki, or a KI84 higher.
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Oh yes, that's what they always say.
And I suppose you're all in the 'shane-class' who fight every low plane on their own terms and come alive to tell about it.. or procede to explain on ch200 why they had to fight against 5 to 1 odds and thats the only reason they're dead?
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And I suppose you're all in the 'shane-class' who fight every low plane on their own terms and come alive to tell about it.. or procede to explain on ch200 why they had to fight against 5 to 1 odds and thats the only reason they're dead?
People do that???? :D
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Here in the "industry"..we still call them money shots.
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A riot act is more like it :D
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Given more or less equal circumstances, a Spit5 or a N1K2, Ki-84-Ia will eat a P-38 alive in a slow speed fight - whatever version it is. The Ki-84-Ia, in particular, once its own superior set of fowlers extend, can do anything a P-38 can, and do it much better.
The problem with evading a P-38 is that the P-38 is more than capable of following a turn long enough to gain a firing solution once it grabs onto a certain advantage. That's where its natural advantages in torque-less maneuvering kicks in.
For instance, if a P-38G grabs hold of a Spit5 from an E-advantaged position it can turn about one full circle with it with gun solution. It means the P-38 is capable of pulling more than enough lead to get a shot in for more than a full circle. Only when the fight becomes much longer, over two circles, and the speeds go down to 100mph+/- levels, will the Spit5 start gain ground in the turn fight and manage to decisively outturn P-38s if it continues(but this is usually the point where the P-38L or a J levels out and just runs away).
Ofcourse, rarely does the fight take that long in most cases - a half circle or so and the grouped .50s and the single Hizooka usually makes short of the target.
Ofcourse, above analysis takes as a premise that most P-38s also fly higher than anything else around, so rarely would you see a successful P-38 pilot ever engage anything at co-alt, slow speed, at fairly equal starting position. No matter the big words and chest-thumping, basically, a P-38 will come from above you, and then latch on to you, denying you an equal chance in the merge. (But of course, securing the initial advantage is really the basic of all basics in ACM and that's nothing to be criticized, or be ashamed of, for both sides).
But that also means that if for any chance a SpitV or a N1K2 or a Ki-84-Ia finds a P-38 that doesn't have enough speed to run away from it, the tables will be pretty much easily turned if the particular Spit, N1K, Ki-84 pilot is a decent one. Anything the P-38 can do at a disadvantaged position, these planes can follow easily.. unless the pilot is inexperienced and doesn't know much about throttle control, rudder input, or flaps.
So basically, once you see a P-38 within 1k distance behind you and closing, you're too late to do anything. All you can hope is do whatever you can and hope the P-38 pilot sucks in gunnery, so you can turn long enough for your natural advantage in turning starts to show off. However in most cases, a half a turn and you'll probably be in flames or missing a wing.
Therefore, if somebody claims that the P-38 still matches the Spits, N1K2s, or Ki-84s in maneuvering, without the above described situation in place, that's actually the same thing as admitting the FM is entirely wrong, because there's no way a 10 thousand pound plane can match a smaller plane with better powerloading and lower wingloading toe-to-toe in every bit of slow speed maneuvering - with or without flaps.
While I might not be a successful P38G pilot, I'll take issue with the flying at high alt, never take em on at equal etc. I always end up on the deck anyway so climbing way up there just burns fuel and wastes time :)
I'm generally lower or if I'm lucky co alt. The G, at least for me just loves to get low and slow. I was in a 1 v 1 against a D9 last night that ended up on the deck. A Ki84 came in then too and we ended up in one of those mad turn fights. full flaps and slow I was turing inside the Ki and the 190. As they were on opposite sides of the circle, I wasn't in a real good shooting spot to roll out and eventually because I had to focus on one of them the other was able to extend out and come back in and get me, but the G was definately getting inside the Ki84 on the deck and I was still heavy with fuel. Had I been light on fuel I feel like I'd have gotten the 84 before the D9 got the shot.
Bottom line is once you get some time in it, the G is a really fun ride
Dan/CorkyJr
Who will take credit for KillnU's conversion to the G :)
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Originally posted by tikky
for a 15000 pound plane with only 1000hp, p38g turns as sharp as spits and zeroes (even at lo speeds!). Something's wrong here...
Trikky - that's hp per side, and it's 1150 not 1000.
P38 info link (http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p38_11.html)
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That side reads it is 1350 hp x2 and 15800lb is normal take off wight, making it lighter once some fuel is burnt.
I have a hard time in a P38G and would love to have some of the guys that know how good it is to show me, was flying spitV before and i must say the P38 offers a verry big target thats for sure.
The Myth of endless loop is true, but with a spitV i manage on 90% of the loops to pull inside and blast it away when it hangs upside down over me. I would certainly not recommend the loop with spit 400 feet of the tail. Just because you can loop around doesnt mean the other one cant pull up and blast away.
Of course, you can do the loop with some side angel, roll a bit in it or sideslip in it. But with a simpel loop the one behind pulls up, is at 90 degree when your at 180 and blasts.
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It's circumstantial, Dan.
I've had basically the same experience with the P-38G, but only this time, I was the Ki-84. The P-38G started out a little bit higher, but the situation after the first merge was about equal. After a few jabs at each other the fight quickly developed into a rolling scissors, which the P-38 gained the upperhand at the initial stages.
It went into the familiar "wing-over" move, which usually the USAAF planes does better than any other plane in AH - pitch up high, and then engage max flaps possible, and 'c o c k' the nose down very quickly and start a loop fight.
Since most USAAF planes have combat flaps, it can finish that move quicker than any other plane in the set.
Once an enemy plane tries to follow that move, it inevitably enters a 'sluggy' phase which it is also trying to tilt the nose down to follow the US plane, but can't do so. The P-38 does it even faster than others, because it's got no torque to manage during the nose-down process(incidentally, this also usually the point most P-38 pilots experience the accelerated stall, when they push the limits too far).
By the time the following enemy plane gets his nose down and starts moving downwards, the P-38 already made the bottom of the loop and is on its way back up. In about one~two vertical circles, the P-38 will 'outturn' the enemy plane decisively.
I'm pretty much familiar with that since most good US plane pilots use it to maximum efficiency. Therefore, I thought if I could make it through the first 'wing-over' without getting shot at I'd win - and things did turn out that way. Once I made it through that critical point, my own superior two-stage fowlers on the Ki-84 kicked into action and after that, everything was a breeze.
Eventually the P-38 gave up the vertical fight and tried to run away - except the Ki-84 is much faster than the P-38G. No thanks to my superiorly inferior gunnery, I failed to shoot him down through his desperate scissors and rolls, which I had no problem whatsoever following.
He even tried a super-slow speed turn, probably near 90mph or so, with multiple stages of flaps engaged. Piece of cake - once the Ki-84 flaps are out, the plane literally turns itself on a dime without much of pilot input on the stick. About 2 more seconds was all I needed until I finally had a decisive gun solution at 150 yards distance, when out of the blue an enemy plane came by and shot my tail off.
Granted, the P-38 pilot could have been mediocre, but I'm a mediocre guy myself. If specs mean anything, everything is in favor of the Ki-84 when compared to a P-38. The only thing the P-38 does better is have better guns and run away faster - which the latter applies to only the PJ. The PL and the Ki-84 has same top speed at deck.
Ofcourse, there is a small but very vulnerable speed range for the Ki-84, about 50mph speed margin before the flaps can be popped out - this is where the Ki is the most sluggish, unresponsive, and unstable. No doubt, an experienced P-38 pilot can fully exploit this weakness.
But given equal conditions, when comparing the strengths and weaknesses of each of those two planes the Ki-84 holds most of the better cards, at least, as a pure 1vs1 dog fighter. Everything the P-38 can do, the Ki-84 can do it better.
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So basically, once you see a P-38 within 1k distance behind you and closing, you're too late to do anything.
WRONG !!! ... in so many ways.
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You do not want to engage a fast or slow KI84 in a 38 (assuming both are fast or both are slow). You want them around 150 to 200. If you slow down enough for the KI84 to deploy flaps, it will run circles inside a SpitV (I think around 120).
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Originally posted by SlapShot
So basically, once you see a P-38 within 1k distance behind you and closing, you're too late to do anything.
WRONG !!! ... in so many ways.
Isn't that when the Spit turns around and kills you, or is that at D800? :rofl
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Originally posted by java45
This is a game not Real Life, same as Bombers that can turnfight ( which btw wasnt possible either )
End of simple explanation :) :)
I READ IN A BOOK THAT THE KI-67 bomber could outturn most single seat fighters,believe the book was WW2 A/C ILLUSTRATED written by SALAMANDER publishing
VIC
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Originally posted by MadBirdCZ
The fact that in real life no bomber pilot ever tried to turnfight does not mean it is impossible... It is just plain stupid... But possible... :D
Well in fact ALL things are possible!!! But 3 friends of mine who flew waist gun in aforementioned aircraft have assured me that one of those planes turnfighting is aboutas close to immposible as youcan get.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Given more or less equal circumstances, a Spit5 or a N1K2, Ki-84-Ia will eat a P-38 alive in a slow speed fight - whatever version it is. The Ki-84-Ia, in particular, once its own superior set of fowlers extend, can do anything a P-38 can, and do it much better.
The problem with evading a P-38 is that the P-38 is more than capable of following a turn long enough to gain a firing solution once it grabs onto a certain advantage. That's where its natural advantages in torque-less maneuvering kicks in.
For instance, if a P-38G grabs hold of a Spit5 from an E-advantaged position it can turn about one full circle with it with gun solution. It means the P-38 is capable of pulling more than enough lead to get a shot in for more than a full circle. Only when the fight becomes much longer, over two circles, and the speeds go down to 100mph+/- levels, will the Spit5 start gain ground in the turn fight and manage to decisively outturn P-38s if it continues(but this is usually the point where the P-38L or a J levels out and just runs away).
Ofcourse, rarely does the fight take that long in most cases - a half circle or so and the grouped .50s and the single Hizooka usually makes short of the target.
Ofcourse, above analysis takes as a premise that most P-38s also fly higher than anything else around, so rarely would you see a successful P-38 pilot ever engage anything at co-alt, slow speed, at fairly equal starting position. No matter the big words and chest-thumping, basically, a P-38 will come from above you, and then latch on to you, denying you an equal chance in the merge. (But of course, securing the initial advantage is really the basic of all basics in ACM and that's nothing to be criticized, or be ashamed of, for both sides).
But that also means that if for any chance a SpitV or a N1K2 or a Ki-84-Ia finds a P-38 that doesn't have enough speed to run away from it, the tables will be pretty much easily turned if the particular Spit, N1K, Ki-84 pilot is a decent one. Anything the P-38 can do at a disadvantaged position, these planes can follow easily.. unless the pilot is inexperienced and doesn't know much about throttle control, rudder input, or flaps.
So basically, once you see a P-38 within 1k distance behind you and closing, you're too late to do anything. All you can hope is do whatever you can and hope the P-38 pilot sucks in gunnery, so you can turn long enough for your natural advantage in turning starts to show off. However in most cases, a half a turn and you'll probably be in flames or missing a wing.
Therefore, if somebody claims that the P-38 still matches the Spits, N1K2s, or Ki-84s in maneuvering, without the above described situation in place, that's actually the same thing as admitting the FM is entirely wrong, because there's no way a 10 thousand pound plane can match a smaller plane with better powerloading and lower wingloading toe-to-toe in every bit of slow speed maneuvering - with or without flaps.
It's funny how guys that have probably less than a few P-38 stick hours and have no idea how it really performs say, "The P-38 can do this...or...The P-38 can't do that" when you really have no clue what the P-38 is capable of in here.
ack-ack
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Surely hours and hours of being on the receiving end and trying to figure out how a 10 thousand pound, high wing-loaded plane can almost match smaller planes with much more 'maneuver-friendly' specs has gotta count for something, no?
I'm really sorry if I don't submit to your simple logic of "oh I fly it a lot so only I should be able to comment on that plane". I didn't realize observing, analyzing, commenting processes should only be done one-way. *snicker* :rolleyes:
So, anything you'd actually like to point out? My "you are a layman since you don't fly my plane, and thus you aren't qualified to talk about it"-oriented ears are all yours for listening.
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Weights:
P-38:
Empty:
P-38G-1-LO: 12,200 lbs.
P-38J-25-LO: 12,780 lbs.
Loaded:
P-38G-1-LO: 15,800 lbs.
P-38J-25-LO: 17,500 lbs.
Maximum:
P-38G-1-LO: 19,800 lbs.
P-38J-25-LO: 21,600 lbs.
Ki-84:
Empty:
5,864 lbs.
Maximum:
8,576 lbs.
N1K2-J:
Empty:
5,858 lbs.
Maximum:
10,714 lbs.
Spitfire:
Empty:
Mk. I: 4,810 lbs.
Mk. IX: 5,610 lbs.
Mk. XIV: 6,700 lbs.
Loaded:
Mk. I: 5,784 lbs.
Mk. IX: 9,500 lbs.
Mk. XIV: 10,280 lbs.
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Once again I stand corrected.
I'll rephrase my sentence above with the word "fifteen thousand" instead of 10.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Surely hours and hours of being on the receiving end and trying to figure out how a 10 thousand pound, high wing-loaded plane can almost match smaller planes with much more 'maneuver-friendly' specs has gotta count for something, no?
I'm really sorry if I don't submit to your simple logic of "oh I fly it a lot so only I should be able to comment on that plane". I didn't realize observing, analyzing, commenting processes should only be done one-way. *snicker* :rolleyes:
So, anything you'd actually like to point out? My "you are a layman since you don't fly my plane, and thus you aren't qualified to talk about it"-oriented ears are all yours for listening.
Lets start here ...
For instance, if a P-38G grabs hold of a Spit5 from an E-advantaged position it can turn about one full circle with it with gun solution. It means the P-38 is capable of pulling more than enough lead to get a shot in for more than a full circle. Only when the fight becomes much longer, over two circles, and the speeds go down to 100mph+/- levels, will the Spit5 start gain ground in the turn fight and manage to decisively outturn P-38s if it continues(but this is usually the point where the P-38L or a J levels out and just runs away).
If the P-38 has E-advantage, the Spit V simply needs to pull into a turn or enter a loop just on the edge of backout, and the P-38 will not be able to follow and gain a guns solution. If the Spit pilot notices that the P-38 is still in pursuit, simply make another tight turn and the P-38 will go farther out of phase. Add a barrel roll into the mix and the P-38 should not follow ... if it does, then it just entered the danger zone.
If they enter a "death circle" and the Spit V gets flaps out, it will turn inside the P-38 before two laps are completed.
Ofcourse, above analysis takes as a premise that most P-38s also fly higher than anything else around, so rarely would you see a successful P-38 pilot ever engage anything at co-alt, slow speed, at fairly equal starting position.
I have a pretty good success rate in the P-38 and that is not how I fly it at all. I feel as comfortable in that plane wether it is slow or fast - high or low. When I fly it, it's the speed at the time of engagement that determines how I will fight it ... aggresively or defensively ... either way ... its a dangerous plane.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
It actually has around 2500HP, applied by two props, but you can ignore that if you like.
I tried very consciously to ignore that and Ack-Ack killed my 190 :D
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If the P-38 has E-advantage, the Spit V simply needs to pull into a turn or enter a loop just on the edge of backout, and the P-38 will not be able to follow and gain a guns solution.
The situation I was describing was one where the P-38 already 'latched on' to the Spit with E advantage within 400~800yards, dancing around a bit with high yoyos, some lag pursuits, etc etc. As long as the P-38 has enough E advantage in the first place to utilize the clever pursuit techniques, no plane can 'evade' it by just turning hard. Only something like a Zeke or a Hurri can evade their gun solution with just turns.
When I fly it, it's the speed at the time of engagement that determines how I will fight it ... aggresively or defensively ... either way ... its a dangerous plane.
Yup. But some planes can be more dangerous. At least, according to the specs, some planes are easier to be more dangerous in.
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:eek: :rofl
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Originally posted by Kweassa
The situation I was describing was one where the P-38 already 'latched on' to the Spit with E advantage within 400~800yards, dancing around a bit with high yoyos, some lag pursuits, etc etc. As long as the P-38 has enough E advantage in the first place to utilize the clever pursuit techniques, no plane can 'evade' it by just turning hard. Only something like a Zeke or a Hurri can evade their gun solution with just turns.
Yup. But some planes can be more dangerous. At least, according to the specs, some planes are easier to be more dangerous in.
Why do I even bother ... geesh !!!
This is what you said ...
For instance, if a P-38G grabs hold of a Spit5 from an E-advantaged position it can turn about one full circle with it with gun solution.
and I responded to just that.
Now you go further to qualify the scenario ...
The situation I was describing was one where the P-38 already 'latched on' to the Spit with E advantage within 400~800yards, dancing around a bit with high yoyos, some lag pursuits, etc etc.
Your like a kid who engages in a simple game of dodgeball and everytime you get hit, you change the rules.
"Oh well ... I meant that you have to bounce it off a tree and hit me in the left ear in order to get me out." .. "I'm still in."
If a P-38 comes in behind my Spit V with an E-advantage and decides to "dance around a bit with high yoyos, some lag pursuits, etc etc" has just lost his advantage and had better high-tail it out of there ... else his dance card will be punched for sure.
Conversly ... If I am in the P-38 I will be aggressive with the Spit ... not dance around ... and know just when to stop the aggresiveness and extend ... regroup and try again. Dance around a Spit V and your asking for trouble.
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dont bother slapshot, kweassa has this weird idea in his mind that p-38's out-turn spitfires ALL the time and that its ok to have the plane suffer from unrealistic flap retract because.. oh, because FIXING the thing would mean the 38 would perform better. Or something like that.
In any case, the 38's hold true to the golden rule:
P-38 will out-turn what out-runs it and will out-run what out-turns it.
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Originally posted by OIO
P-38 will out-turn what out-runs it and will out-run what out-turns it.
So it will out turn the Yak-9U, Spitfire Mk XIV and Ki-84 (speaking of the G and L, not the J in regards to the Ki-84)?
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Originally posted by java45
This is a game not Real Life, same as Bombers that can turnfight ( which btw wasnt possible either )
End of simple explanation :) :)
You need to be careful that you clarify 4 engine bombers...
The B-25/B-26 were capable of A to A...and the A-20/a-26 were down right dangerous...in fact the A-26 had a better than 1 to 1 kill ratio A to A vs opposing fighters in WW2...
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Lets have a fight!
Meet online and put the best p-38 pilots against the dweebs who fly spits, niks and ki-84's.
My money is on the p38s.
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This is some catch we have here , most of this uber 38g stuff is pure crap. looks like a way for someone to make an excuse for poor flyin ... my 2 cents
38MAW
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Your like a kid who engages in a simple game of dodgeball and everytime you get hit, you change the rules.
"Oh well ... I meant that you have to bounce it off a tree and hit me in the left ear in order to get me out." .. "I'm still in."
You've been playing this game for what, 2~3 years?
Do I really have to explain everything in detail to you to understand anything? A 12 year old kid would have understood the point I was making was that the P-38 at certain speed ranges holds a natural advantage against other single engined planes.
After all, that's where the nit-picking started; when I was explaining to SOMEONE ELSE who complained about how P-38s can 'turn with Spits'.. that it wasn't really outturning, but the P-38 was using its excellent natural advantage of maintaining gun solution upto very long periods due to its gentle and stable nature, so typically even a Spitfire might not be able to decisively outturn it before it gets shot at.
Everything so far I wrote on this thread is good praise towards the plane. Care to deny the P-38 is a very capable plane that holds that certain advantage when compared to other single-engined fighters? And, that is where the secret lies in how a 15 thousand lbs, two-engined, humongous sized plane may be able to keep up with a Spit?
If a P-38 comes in behind my Spit V with an E-advantage and decides to "dance around a bit with high yoyos, some lag pursuits, etc etc" has just lost his advantage and had better high-tail it out of there ... else his dance card will be punched for sure.
Interestingly, some people in your very own P-38 pilot group are well known for their masculine chest-thumping on how they can easily follow everything a N1K or a Spitfire might do.
Who do you want me to believe? Make up your minds.
Conversly ... If I am in the P-38 I will be aggressive with the Spit ... not dance around ... and know just when to stop the aggresiveness and extend ... regroup and try again. Dance around a Spit V and your asking for trouble.
Then you're not a true P-38 pilot. Your a P(seudo)-38 pilot.
True P-38 pilots are supposed to extend flaps and go full rudder, and try the tighest circle possible to keep up, until the flap auto-retracts and the plane stalls out.
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dont bother slapshot, kweassa has this weird idea in his mind that p-38's out-turn spitfires ALL the time and that its ok to have the plane suffer from unrealistic flap retract because.. oh, because FIXING the thing would mean the 38 would perform better. Or something like that.
On the contrary. As with my reply to Slap, I was actually disagreeing with the original poster that the PG is a "twin engined Spitfire". And if you would have paid attention, you might actually have read where I wrote on my very first post in this thread;
Therefore, if somebody claims that the P-38 still matches the Spits, N1K2s, or Ki-84s in maneuvering, without the above described situation in place, that's actually the same thing as admitting the FM is entirely wrong
Okay.. let's see.. where does it say 'p-38s out-turn spitfires ALL the time blahblahblah'? Doesn't it actually look more like, 'P-38s may out-turn Spits under certain circumstances'?
Sure looks like that to me?
Need bifocals, Tac?
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Originally posted by Karnak
So it will out turn the Yak-9U, Spitfire Mk XIV and Ki-84 (speaking of the G and L, not the J in regards to the Ki-84)?
Well, the P-38G accelerates rather leisurely when compared to the other two P-38s. Likewise, climb rate is about 25% less. However, the G will easily out-turn a Yak-9U. Likewise, the SpitXIV pilot who decides to turn fight the G is foolish. Tha Spit, more than the SpitIX, is best used as an energy fighter, where its acceleration and climb can be best used.
Above 150 mph, the Ki-84 will have its hands very full with any P-38, but the J and L especially. Between 150 and 250, the P-38 has flaps deployed and will turn inside the Ki-84 with relative ease. If the Ki-84 survives long enough to get his flaps out (150 mph and less) he gets the advantage. But, by then the P-38 would have unloaded and extended. I'm assuming this fight occurs on the deck. Go up a several thousand feet and the P-38J/L accelerates as well or better than the Ki-84, and climbs a bit better too. At 10k or above, the Ki-84 is at a significant disadvantage in every category but very low-speed turning.
I recently checked actual acceleration times.
At all altitudes, the P-38J accelerates faster than the Yak-9U. Moreover, it climbs considerably faster as well. At sea level, the P-38J requires 36.57 seconds to accelerate from 200 mph to 300 mph. The Yak needs 37.40 seconds
As for the Ki-84, at sea level it needs 35.96 seconds to do the same. However, at 5k the P-38J accelerates a bit better than the Hayate. At 10k, the difference is significant. At 20k, the difference is huge, with the P-38J getting to 300 mph almost 15 seconds sooner. In fact, at 20k, the P-38J is the fastest accelerating prop fighter in the plane set, bar none. The Yak is far behind as well. Even the SpitXIV falls short, losing by 1.4 seconds.
Don't discount what a reasonably skilled pilot can do with the P-38J/L, it's easily in the top ten for all-around performance.
As an aside:
Tonight I did some speed runs with the faster fighters. Using E6B, I checked max speed at three altitudes, 28.5k, 25k and 20k.
Results are as follows.
28.5k
F4U-4: 445 mph
SpitXIV: 444 mph
109G-10: 436 mph
P-51D: 433 mph
P-38J: 412 mph
Fw 190D-9: 410 mph
25K
F4U-4: 446 mph
109G-10: 443 mph
P-51D: 441 mph (a bit faster than expected)
SpitXIV: 441 mph
Fw 190D-9: 421 mph
P-38J: 420 mph (within 0.5 mph of the Eglin Field tests, @ 420.5)
20k
109G-10: 444 mph
F4U-4: 439 mph
Fw 190D-9: 426 mph
P-51D: 425 mph
SpitXIV 420 mph
P-38J: 405 mph
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Widewing
Well, the P-38G accelerates rather leisurely when compared to the other two P-38s. Likewise, climb rate is about 25% less. However, the G will easily out-turn a Yak-9U. Likewise, the SpitXIV pilot who decides to turn fight the G is foolish. Tha Spit, more than the SpitIX, is best used as an energy fighter, where its acceleration and climb can be best used.
Above 150 mph, the Ki-84 will have its hands very full with any P-38, but the J and L especially. Between 150 and 250, the P-38 has flaps deployed and will turn inside the Ki-84 with relative ease. If the Ki-84 survives long enough to get his flaps out (150 mph and less) he gets the advantage. But, by then the P-38 would have unloaded and extended. I'm assuming this fight occurs on the deck. Go up a several thousand feet and the P-38J/L accelerates as well or better than the Ki-84, and climbs a bit better too. At 10k or above, the Ki-84 is at a significant disadvantage in every category but very low-speed turning.
I recently checked actual acceleration times.
At all altitudes, the P-38J accelerates faster than the Yak-9U. Moreover, it climbs considerably faster as well. At sea level, the P-38J requires 36.57 seconds to accelerate from 200 mph to 300 mph. The Yak needs 37.40 seconds
As for the Ki-84, at sea level it needs 35.96 seconds to do the same. However, at 5k the P-38J accelerates a bit better than the Hayate. At 10k, the difference is significant. At 20k, the difference is huge, with the P-38J getting to 300 mph almost 15 seconds sooner. In fact, at 20k, the P-38J is the fastest accelerating prop fighter in the plane set, bar none. The Yak is far behind as well. Even the SpitXIV falls short, losing by 1.4 seconds.
Don't discount what a reasonably skilled pilot can do with the P-38J/L, it's easily in the top ten for all-around performance.
As an aside:
Tonight I did some speed runs with the faster fighters. Using E6B, I checked max speed at three altitudes, 28.5k, 25k and 20k.
Results are as follows.
28.5k
F4U-4: 445 mph
SpitXIV: 444 mph
109G-10: 436 mph
P-51D: 433 mph
P-38J: 412 mph
Fw 190D-9: 410 mph
25K
F4U-4: 446 mph
109G-10: 443 mph
P-51D: 441 mph (a bit faster than expected)
SpitXIV: 441 mph
Fw 190D-9: 421 mph
P-38J: 420 mph (within 0.5 mph of the Eglin Field tests, @ 420.5)
20k
109G-10: 444 mph
F4U-4: 439 mph
Fw 190D-9: 426 mph
P-51D: 425 mph
SpitXIV 420 mph
P-38J: 405 mph
My regards,
Widewing
Everytime your wife walks past , and you are sitting there with your stopwatch, does she just shake her head ? I know mine would ;)
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Originally posted by Redd
Everytime your wife walks past , and you are sitting there with your stopwatch, does she just shake her head ? I know mine would ;)
LOLOL
She's well past the head shaking stage.
Actually, my old stopwatch quit on me. So, when my wife went to Target a few weeks ago, she remembered that and bought me a new one.
Doing speed runs at altitude takes forever. It took more than 2 hours just to test the few above.
My regards,
Widewing
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You've been playing this game for what, 2~3 years?
Do I really have to explain everything in detail to you to understand anything? A 12 year old kid would have understood the point I was making was that the P-38 at certain speed ranges holds a natural advantage against other single engined planes.
It's now over 3 years ... but what difference does that make and no I don't need you to explain anything to me.
You come into a thread post a Wall 'O Text with a very large brush, similar to what my twelve year old grand daughter why try to do when called on the carpet, and then she starts to scramble like you do under the same circumstances. Thats when the details come out and the more one scrambles the more foolish they look.
Care to deny the P-38 is a very capable plane that holds that certain advantage when compared to other single-engined fighters?
Nope ... but your description of its advantages, as posted above, is wrong ... and thats exactly what I addressed my in post and thats when you started to scramble.
Interestingly, some people in your very own P-38 pilot group are well known for their masculine chest-thumping on how they can easily follow everything a N1K or a Spitfire might do.
Who do you want me to believe? Make up your minds.
You need some quality yoke time (which you have none) to understand what they are talking about. I don't really care who you believe.
Then you're not a true P-38 pilot. Your a P(seudo)-38 pilot.
True P-38 pilots are supposed to extend flaps and go full rudder, and try the tighest circle possible to keep up, until the flap auto-retracts and the plane stalls out.
LOL .. no I am not an AKAK, a TAC, a KAPPA, a 38MAW, a FESTER, a BUG, a Silat, nor a Delirium, but I do know for a fact that I have far more time behind the yoke in a P38 than you and I AM a better P-38 pilot than you and speak thru experience (both P-38 and Spit V), not conjecture.
You are in no viable position to deem anybody a P(seudo)-38 pilot or a True P-38 pilot. Put in some serious yoke time and then come back and talk.
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Someone mention 38 vs. Spit fights?
Not sure I could do too well against the better 38 pilots out there, but that would definately be a blast...
38 vs. F6F usually fun too.
Any 38 pilots are interested, give me a holler :)
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Originally posted by SlapShot
You've been playing this game for what, 2~3 years?
Do I really have to explain everything in detail to you to understand anything? A 12 year old kid would have understood the point I was making was that the P-38 at certain speed ranges holds a natural advantage against other single engined planes.
It's now over 3 years ... but what difference does that make and no I don't need you to explain anything to me.
You come into a thread post a Wall 'O Text with a very large brush, similar to what my twelve year old grand daughter why try to do when called on the carpet, and then she starts to scramble like you do under the same circumstances. Thats when the details come out and the more one scrambles the more foolish they look.
Care to deny the P-38 is a very capable plane that holds that certain advantage when compared to other single-engined fighters?
Nope ... but your description of its advantages, as posted above, is wrong ... and thats exactly what I addressed my in post and thats when you started to scramble.
Interestingly, some people in your very own P-38 pilot group are well known for their masculine chest-thumping on how they can easily follow everything a N1K or a Spitfire might do.
Who do you want me to believe? Make up your minds.
You need some quality yoke time (which you have none) to understand what they are talking about. I don't really care who you believe.
Then you're not a true P-38 pilot. Your a P(seudo)-38 pilot.
True P-38 pilots are supposed to extend flaps and go full rudder, and try the tighest circle possible to keep up, until the flap auto-retracts and the plane stalls out.
LOL .. no I am not an AKAK, a TAC, a KAPPA, a 38MAW, a FESTER, a BUG, a Silat, nor a Delirium, but I do know for a fact that I have far more time behind the yoke in a P38 than you and I AM a better P-38 pilot than you and speak thru experience (both P-38 and Spit V), not conjecture.
You are in no viable position to deem anybody a P(seudo)-38 pilot or a True P-38 pilot. Put in some serious yoke time and then come back and talk.
Hey SlapShot, if you've got some free time, I've got an anvil bolted to an old tree stump, I'd appreciate it if you'd try to talk some sense into them. Seems like you enjoy that sort of thing.:rofl :rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Then you're not a true P-38 pilot. Your a P(seudo)-38 pilot.
True P-38 pilots are supposed to extend flaps and go full rudder, and try the tighest circle possible to keep up, until the flap auto-retracts and the plane stalls out.
It's with comments like that, that show you absolutely have no clue and really shouldn't be commenting on a plane you have 1)no experience in and 2) have no clue as to its performance. But since it's the P-38, you have to come in and put your 2 cents worth of useless drivel. You're dismissed.
ack-ack
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And AKAK ought to know. He's been flying the 38 since he was.....um....er....well....y ou get the idea :)
Sorry AKAK, it seemed like a good place for it :)
Dan
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/169_1106796812_ackack.jpg)
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Originally posted by Killjoy2
Lets have a fight!
Meet online and put the best p-38 pilots against the dweebs who fly spits, niks and ki-84's.
My money is on the p38s.
I'd like to play too!! Can I fly a 38?? I'm abit green from lack of playing, but I'd bet on the 38s too! hehe Silly wanna-be turn fighting spits have no chance!
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Originally posted by TheDudeDVant
I'd like to play too!! Can I fly a 38?? I'm abit green from lack of playing, but I'd bet on the 38s too! hehe Silly wanna-be turn fighting spits have no chance!
When you catch me on give me a PM - I'm sure I more than qualify as a dweeb who flys Spits (they're a guilty pleasure, but man, so much fun!)
Edit: Dweeb being the key part of my thinking I qualify :p
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Originally posted by Vudak
When you catch me on give me a PM - I'm sure I more than qualify as a dweeb who flys Spits (they're a guilty pleasure, but man, so much fun!)
Edit: Dweeb being the key part of my thinking I qualify :p
Sounds good to me.. But are you talking 1-1? I was understanding this to be many spits against some 38s.. I wouldnt think you spit guys would want to punish yourselfs and fight the 38 alone?? Would you?? Remember this is the P-P-P-Pee38 POWERHOUSE we're talking here.. Are you saying your masochistic?? Well, I suppose it takes all kinds of peps to make a world.. Even some that lurve to be abused.. lmao
jk'n man! Should be some fun either way!
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It's with comments like that, that show you absolutely have no clue and really shouldn't be commenting on a plane you have 1)no experience in and 2) have no clue as to its performance. But since it's the P-38, you have to come in and put your 2 cents worth of useless drivel. You're dismissed.
Wasn't me who dragged in the old debates about the flap issues in this thread, Akster. Try and search a few posts above mine and you'll see who started it. Take a jab at me with irrelevant material and I will retaliate.
Besides, despite all those mighty words, you still didn't point out where I was wrong in, which if you stuck at that in the first place I would have gladly listened humbly.
But then again, wasn't it you who started the mud slinging first with rude comments?
Think about it Akster. This thread started nice, and then turned into another brawl between me and the so-so P38 pilots.
One of them started a flame war, and it wasn't me.
ps) One question.
Does your P-38 outturn Spitfires? If so, how do you do it?
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You come into a thread post a Wall 'O Text with a very large brush, similar to what my twelve year old grand daughter why try to do when called on the carpet, and then she starts to scramble like you do under the same circumstances. Thats when the details come out and the more one scrambles the more foolish they look.
So you nit-pick every detail your grand daughter drew wrong, too?
You know it, and I know it. This isn't really about anything in written in this thread. It's about the immature grudges you and your peers hold from past discussions. I didn't start this.
Nope ... but your description of its advantages, as posted above, is wrong ... and thats exactly what I addressed my in post and thats when you started to scramble.
So how is it wrong?
How would a P-38 'turn with a Spitfire' as the original poster claimed? He wanted information, I gave him what I knew.
If that is wrong, please, point it out in just where it's wrong and how. How does a P-38G the original poster met, outturn his Spitfire? Describe how, and I'll see where and why I'm wrong, and will gladly accept that as new information directly coming from someone who knows the plane well.
Try and go over the posts all the self-proclaimed 'P-38 experts' wrote on this thread. No info at all. Nothing. Zip. Zilch. Everything is directed on attacking me.
So how are we lesser life forms supposed to know how P-38s can do that when none of you windbags are interested in describing how?
You need some quality yoke time (which you have none) to understand what they are talking about. I don't really care who you believe.
Why would I need yoke time for receiving answer to "Does it, or does it not outturn Spits or Nikis"??
Just give it to me.
I've seen Tac comment it plenty of times since years ago. Akak probably posted a zillion times about this that his P-38 has no problems in following Spits or N1Ks. I've seen Morph claim that, but not as often, and etc etc.
How about if I just asked you what you think?
LOL .. no I am not an AKAK, a TAC, a KAPPA, a 38MAW, a FESTER, a BUG, a Silat, nor a Delirium, but I do know for a fact that I have far more time behind the yoke in a P38 than you and I AM a better P-38 pilot than you and speak thru experience (both P-38 and Spit V), not conjecture.
You are in no viable position to deem anybody a P(seudo)-38 pilot or a True P-38 pilot. Put in some serious yoke time and then come back and talk.
T'was a joke directed at Tac and the other P-38 dudes who never cease to complain about auto-retraction(and I didn't even bring up that subject here first).
Try to read between the texts.
Besides, I won't touch that plane with a 10-foot pole. It reeks of stench of over-boosted egos.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Does your P-38 outturn Spitfires? If so, how do you do it?
watch my films.
ack-ack
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Is it really that hard to answer? Or are you scared you might step on some diabolical word-trap I've planted with the questions?
Okay, I promise, no ill intent.
The original poster thinks Spitfires are outturned by PGs. I think it's only possible with an E-advantaged, latched-on P-38 that utilizies a lot of lag pursuits, turn path oscillation, momentary pulls by using torquelessness, high/lo yoyos and stuff.
You say I have no idea what I'm talking about. Slapshot says my descriptions are wrong. I wanna know how and why.
Enlighten us.
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There' aint a 38 in the game that's going to out turn my spitv co-alt 1v1 in a turn fight. Sorry, not going to happen.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Is it really that hard to answer? Or are you scared you might step on some diabolical word-trap I've planted with the questions?
Okay, I promise, no ill intent.
The original poster thinks Spitfires are outturned by PGs. I think it's only possible with an E-advantaged, latched-on P-38 that utilizies a lot of lag pursuits, turn path oscillation, momentary pulls by using torquelessness, high/lo yoyos and stuff.
You say I have no idea what I'm talking about. Slapshot says my descriptions are wrong. I wanna know how and why.
Enlighten us.
If the P-38 has the E-advantage, he wants to keep it. Thats where it shines best ... aggressive E fighting.
This is where your were wrong as far as I am concerned ... start throwing a lot of those other non-aggresseive BFMs into the mix and you start scrubbing E and start to bring yourself into where the Spit V starts to shine ... you don't want to be there.
I said that the best way for me to kill a Spit is to be aggressive and continue to be aggressive until I start to enter the Spits envelope ... once there, its time to get out and get some E back in my pocket. By being aggressive, hopefully he might have been complacent, I can get the kill over and done with and not have scrubbed to much E for the next possible encounter.
I can't tell you how many times that I have had a P-38 BnZ me in my Spit V, and on each pass I create an angle that denys him a good guns solution. With each successive pass, he scrubs off a little more E.
I can usually tell within 1 to 2 passes when he will enter my zone, and if and when he does, chances are he will die shortly there after. If he bugs out just before entering the "zone", I know there was a good 38 stick in that cockpit.
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To sum this up I'll paraphrase from a presidential election slogan used in 1992...
"It's the [pilot], stupid!"
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Is it really that hard to answer? Or are you scared you might step on some diabolical word-trap I've planted with the questions?
Okay, I promise, no ill intent.
The original poster thinks Spitfires are outturned by PGs. I think it's only possible with an E-advantaged, latched-on P-38 that utilizies a lot of lag pursuits, turn path oscillation, momentary pulls by using torquelessness, high/lo yoyos and stuff.
You say I have no idea what I'm talking about. Slapshot says my descriptions are wrong. I wanna know how and why.
Enlighten us.
Keep the fight out of the medium speed range where the Spitfire has the advantage. With the Spitfire Mk IX, keep the fight above 250mph IAS or below 150MPH IAS and use the vertical a lot in your turns. P-38 has the slight edge in a stall fight against the Spitfire MkIX and Mk XIV so use that to your advantage by keeping the fight below 150mph IAS. Against the Spitfire V, it's a little tougher and the range you want to avoid turning with it is 250mph IAS to 125mph IAS. Again, the P-38 has a very slight advantage in a stall fight due to its very gentle and forgiving stall characteristics and you can use this gain a momentary angle on the Spitfire V for a shot. Not saying this is a 100% for sure fire method of shooting down either plane but that's how I do it. As with all things, YMMV.
I fight the N1K2 and the Ki-84 the same way I fight the Spitfire Mk IX and XIV.
Of course now there's gonna be a bunch of posts saying it's impossible, no way a P-38 can hang with any of those planes in a stall fight, yada yada yada. But if you watch any of the films Murdr, Pellik or I've made, it clearly shows that in the right hands the P-38 can stand toe to toe with either of those planes and triumph. Again, as stated above YMMV.
ack-ack
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Excerpt from transcripts made of my CVR during a P-38G mission only recently de-classified by the War Department:
Auto-climb off roll right look right roll left look left look back look forward/right look forward/left roll right look right roll left look left.
Lower dot 11'ock. What is it? Check radar; no contact; probably bandit. Level flight, increase speed.
Contact! Pos ID Spit. He's pulling up into me, offset merge; He's smart, no HO, knows I'll win. Nose low dip left wing; pull up, pop flaps, too fast won't pop. Look up, there he is. Sounds like Spit V, he's getting inside. Ping! Ping! Blood on the glass, pilot wound; crap! Stay nose high, no WEP available, crap! Level wings, where is he? There, showing his white belly as he rolls back down. Pop flaps, another notch out, roll nose low, auto flaps retract, speed increasing. He's at the bottom of his loop; line him up, FIRE! No hits, I suck, crap!
Overshoot, climb up, wiggle as he shoots, .303s hit home but no damage. Ok, let's boogie upward, big loop now, he's inside again but too far back, no hits. At the top, speed falling off, pop flaps, look back, Spit gaining, getting closer, big trouble now, pilot wound blackout!
---dreams of childhood---rose petals and sunshine---swimming---
Where am I? War! Spitfire falling off but so am I, flaps all out, left wing rolling in stall. WTF? I thought this plane had no torque! Push nose down gain speed, out of stall danger. Downhill run, speed going up, flaps retracting. Spit pulls up, looping, here we go! Pull back stick, gotta get inside. Snapshot! Missed! Crap!
Under me now, where? There! 5 o'clock high, coming around now. Climb! Climb! Climb! Look up, back, there he is following. I'm at the top. Toggle flaps, out, they're all out, nothing more to give. Cut throttle? ok. Nose falls down, favor right to counter torque pull left, gonna pivot on right wing, kick right rudder to speed the turn.
Spit coming up, gun pipper coming around, almost there, almost there, putt-putt as Spit goes by. Crap! Losing airspeed, left wing dropping again. Level wings and acquire. There; high left!
Spit still back there, can't get his guns lined up I guess. Up throttle, nose going down, grab the flaps, let's get fast! Time to boogey.
Ground coming up quick, pull back stick. Trees! Gonna mush into them; Pull pull pull. Blackout!
---angel harps---Grandma?---chocolate bunnies---new bike---
Am I dead? No, nose coming up now. Straight up to bleed speed and get away from the ground, spit still back there, keep going up, then over the top, pop flaps, Spit followed me, there he is. Ping Ping Tower.
No real useful information there, but I figured I'd post it up for entertainment purposes just to lighten the mood. You guys are taking this game way to seriously.
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holly marry mother of josephine!
How much you really need to type to say...
The Spit Pwns the 38?