Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Shuckins on March 05, 2005, 08:04:31 AM

Title: Wha' Hoppen?
Post by: Shuckins on March 05, 2005, 08:04:31 AM
Moammar Ghadafi making submissive gestures to the West...and promising to be a good boy!?.

Hosni Mubarak of Egypt suddenly announcing that he would allow free elections!?

Syria turning over a prominent member of Saddam's family to the new Iraqi government!?

Israel pulling out of Gaza, tearing down settlements on the West Bank, and the Palestinian leadership promising to make sincere efforts to stop terrorist activity!?

Lebanese civilians, along with many western governments, and even the Saudis, demanding that Syria withdraw its forces from Lebanon...and the Syrians actually acting as if they will!?




This isn't the Middle East we have all come to know and loathe!    What the 'ell is going on over there?
Title: Wha' Hoppen?
Post by: Siaf__csf on March 05, 2005, 08:26:54 AM
Well if this is all due to US actions in Iraq then hats off to you guys!

I can admit when I've been wrong.
Title: Re: Wha' Hoppen?
Post by: OneWordAnswer on March 05, 2005, 08:27:04 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Shuckins
This isn't the Middle East we have all come to know and loathe!    What the 'ell is going on over there?


Armageddon.
Title: Re: Re: Wha' Hoppen?
Post by: Eagler on March 05, 2005, 08:31:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by OneWordAnswer
Armageddon.


hopefully this has been avoided

only time will tell

It is sad that it is all downplayed in our media as the left does not want to give any credit to those responsible  -  this admin
Title: Wha' Hoppen?
Post by: Dago on March 05, 2005, 09:07:16 AM
I hope the winds of change are truely sweeping into the middle east, if so, then the future may be brighter for a lot of people.

dago
Title: Wha' Hoppen?
Post by: midnight Target on March 05, 2005, 09:32:45 AM
Sometimes it is better to be lucky than good.
Title: Wha' Hoppen?
Post by: Shuckins on March 05, 2005, 09:40:35 AM
Are you sure it was luck MT?

I'm of the opinion that a foreign policy that has single-minded purpose pays more dividends than one that is mealy-mouthed and tries to please everybody.

Could Machiavelli have been right when he said "...it is better to be feared than loved..." ?
Title: Wha' Hoppen?
Post by: midnight Target on March 05, 2005, 09:47:53 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Shuckins

Could Machiavelli have been right when he said "...it is better to be feared than loved..." ?


And Mussolini made the trains run on time too.  

Just seems kinda disingenuous to take credit for something that was maybe a distant 6th on the hit parade of "Reasons to go to War".
Title: Wha' Hoppen?
Post by: Holden McGroin on March 05, 2005, 10:06:58 AM
Are you saying that Mussolini used the Italian train schedule problem as a reason to invade Ethiopia?
Title: Wha' Hoppen?
Post by: midnight Target on March 05, 2005, 10:09:15 AM
hehe

was trying to avoid any... you-know-who.... references..
Title: Wha' Hoppen?
Post by: Holden McGroin on March 05, 2005, 10:22:37 AM
Okay, good... because Benito was just a puppet for the master, Giovanni Gentile.

Everyone knows it was Gentile who was the brains behind the Italian Fascist movement and used Mussolini as a front man.

Gentile's reason to invade Ethiopia was his preoccupation with the Arc of the Covanant supposedly housed in Axum Ethiopia, brought to Axum by Menelik.  The Arc was supposed to have undefeatable military powers and was considered a weapon that could kill millions. Giovanni Gentile considered that in the hands of a unstable leader like Halle Selassie the arc was a threat to the security of Italy.

It had nothing to do with train schedules.
Title: Wha' Hoppen?
Post by: Shuckins on March 05, 2005, 11:06:41 AM
The question is...would any of this have happened, or as quickly, without a no-nonsense, kick-em-in-the-nads foreign policy?
Title: Wha' Hoppen?
Post by: SLO on March 05, 2005, 11:27:01 AM
again your ego self attitude seems to prevail and you completely miss the point...

try since Arafat died things are changing, not since the US invaded the sovereign country of Iraq...

now that was hard to do, actually think

what you freaks should do since you support Israel with your eyes closed, you should actually ask them to DECLARE they have nukes instead of goin all high and mighty vs. Iran who is tryin to acquire them...
Title: Wha' Hoppen?
Post by: Drunky on March 05, 2005, 12:57:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SLO
try since Arafat died things are changing, not since the US invaded the sovereign country of Iraq...
 


Are you saying that Arafat dying has made changes in Lebanon, Egypt, Syria?
Title: Wha' Hoppen?
Post by: Dago on March 05, 2005, 01:00:22 PM
Geez MT, you stick stuck in the mode that Garafalo and Streisdand know more about world affairs, politics and economics than the current administration?

If so, my heart goes out to you.

dago
Title: Wha' Hoppen?
Post by: Eagler on March 05, 2005, 01:10:53 PM
dang SLO

thanks for that enlightened view

LOL LOL LOL
Title: Wha' Hoppen?
Post by: bunch on March 05, 2005, 02:07:09 PM
I thought the ethiopia fracas was over Selassie's "cous-cous is better than spaghetti" remarks
Title: Wha' Hoppen?
Post by: Holden McGroin on March 05, 2005, 02:15:19 PM
No, it was about a weapon of incredible power.  But then when the Italians searched for it, it was not found and their reason for invasion fell into disrepute.

Only later was it discovered that the Arc was taken by a little known US government black ops team and stored in a government warehouse.
Title: Wha' Hoppen?
Post by: Drunky on March 05, 2005, 03:38:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Only later was it discovered that the Arc was taken by a little known US government black ops team and stored in a government warehouse.


I saw that movie.
Title: Wha' Hoppen?
Post by: Skydancer on March 05, 2005, 07:31:31 PM
Slo. I kind of agree there.

"Before you take the splinter from anothers eye take the plank from your own" kind of thing.
Title: Wha' Hoppen?
Post by: john9001 on March 05, 2005, 07:33:31 PM
i thought it was indiana jones that found the ark?
Title: Wha' Hoppen?
Post by: Holden McGroin on March 05, 2005, 07:37:43 PM
And who hired Dr. Jones?  American intellegence operatives working with the freemasons and knights templar...  If you follow it far enough, it leads to a grassy knoll.
Title: Wha' Hoppen?
Post by: GRUNHERZ on March 05, 2005, 09:38:22 PM
So is SLO saying that Bush was also right to isolate Arafat and wait until he died to resatrt the peace process?
Title: Wha' Hoppen?
Post by: TweetyBird on March 05, 2005, 10:55:40 PM
>>
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by OneWordAnswer
Armageddon.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



hopefully this has been avoided
<<

100,000 pentecostals just asked over the back seat, "are we there yet?"



Juuuuuust kidding :D
Title: Wha' Hoppen?
Post by: rpm on March 05, 2005, 11:34:36 PM
There was a run of good things happening there in the 70's. Remember what happened next?
Title: Re: Wha' Hoppen?
Post by: Nash on March 05, 2005, 11:55:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Shuckins
This isn't the Middle East we have all come to know and loathe! What the 'ell is going on over there?


Everything's fixed?

Cool!
Title: Re: Re: Wha' Hoppen?
Post by: storch on March 06, 2005, 12:23:07 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
Everything's fixed?

Cool!


well not quite everything.  there is still that pesky neighbor to the north, eh.
Title: Re: Re: Wha' Hoppen?
Post by: Drunky on March 06, 2005, 01:00:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
Everything's fixed?

Cool!


Nash, stupid doesn't fit you so stop it.

If you cannot admit that progress has been made in the Middle East then you (not necessarily you Nash) are indelibily coarse and obtuse.
Title: Wha' Hoppen?
Post by: Drunky on March 06, 2005, 01:05:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Skydancer
Slo. I kind of agree there.

"Before you take the splinter from anothers eye take the plank from your own" kind of thing.


Hold on a minute while I hum my favorite classical piece....

Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumbbbbbbbbb......

Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumbbbbbbbbb......

How about before you say something stupid you should check to see if someone has said something even more stupid(er), especially when you agree with said stupid(er)?
Title: Wha' Hoppen?
Post by: mechanic on March 06, 2005, 01:13:57 AM
stupid'ity'?
Title: Wha' Hoppen?
Post by: DREDIOCK on March 06, 2005, 01:20:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target
And Mussolini made the trains run on time too.  

Just seems kinda disingenuous to take credit for something that was maybe a distant 6th on the hit parade of "Reasons to go to War".


If had gave the reason of "to bring democracy to the middle east" ya think he would have gotten the ok to go?

Lmao somehow I doubt it
Title: Wha' Hoppen?
Post by: OneWordAnswer on March 06, 2005, 08:53:14 AM
Quote
Originally posted by TweetyBird
>>
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by OneWordAnswer
Armageddon.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



hopefully this has been avoided
<<

100,000 pentecostals just asked over the back seat, "are we there yet?"



Juuuuuust kidding :D

<<< Laughing! :rofl
Title: Re: Wha' Hoppen?
Post by: StarOfAfrica2 on March 06, 2005, 01:18:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Shuckins
Moammar Ghadafi making submissive gestures to the West...and promising to be a good boy!?.

Hosni Mubarak of Egypt suddenly announcing that he would allow free elections!?

Syria turning over a prominent member of Saddam's family to the new Iraqi government!?

Israel pulling out of Gaza, tearing down settlements on the West Bank, and the Palestinian leadership promising to make sincere efforts to stop terrorist activity!?

Lebanese civilians, along with many western governments, and even the Saudis, demanding that Syria withdraw its forces from Lebanon...and the Syrians actually acting as if they will!?




This isn't the Middle East we have all come to know and loathe!    What the 'ell is going on over there?


Libya goes whichever way the wind is blowing.  Right now its in our favor, despite any gaffes on Bush's part, and as long as we don't do any major screw-ups it probably will for the forseeable future.  

Egypt isn't "suddenly" allowing free elections, it's something they have been moving towards for some time.  The other events in the Middle East have supported it changing now, such as the successful (depends on your point of view) elections in Iraq and those held by the Palestinians.  Egypt has been wanting to go this way for some time, and there just hasnt been a bandwagon to jump on until now.

Syria is starting to see which side of the table the bread gets buttered on.  It's all well and good to side with the "holy men", but they don't have much of a retirement plan.  They also ask for lots of money, and lots of support, but dont give much back except prayers.  Which are of dubious value anyway, since most of the major Muslim leaders aren't buying into their jihad.  The line between "divinely inspired" and "mad as a hatter" is a fine one indeed.

Israel doesnt have much choice if they ever want to send their kids to school without armed guards on every street corner.  They never had a real alternative so long as Arafat was in charge.  He talked a good talk, but he was who he was.  They see a real chance now to work this out, and have to show they will bargain in good faith.  This is one of the biggest sticking points to the negotiation.  I hope it works.

The Lebanon of today is not the Lebanon we all grew to know and love in the 80s and early 90s.  That Lebanon is long gone, and the one that exists today is a retreat for Arab playboys from every country in the Mid-East.  Yachts, nightclubs, fancy restaraunts and every luxury you could imagine are available in Lebanon today.  Most of the Arab countries have been uneasy letting Syria call the shots there for some time, but haven't wanted to "rock the boat" by demanding they witdrawl.  Now there is a good reason for it, and they can (again) jump on a bandwagon.  

None of this can be credited directly to the US.  However, almost all of it can be traced indirectly to our efforts and policies in that area.  Do I think this was part of Bush's plan?  Heck no.  But as was stated before, I'd rather be lucky than good.  And I'd say we got really lucky.  I'll take it.  :)
Title: Wha' Hoppen?
Post by: DREDIOCK on March 06, 2005, 04:25:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
So ... you're saying he lied?


Nope. Not at all.
If he lied then so did alot of other people not only here but. in alot of other nations.
remeber the arguement wasnt if he had them or not but whether to go in and do something about it or not.

But I will say installing a democracy in Iraq was probably on the short list  of reasons to go in.
Title: Wha' Hoppen?
Post by: Mighty1 on March 07, 2005, 06:54:58 AM
Quote
No wonder the US didn't want the inspectors to complete their job.


Didn't want?! They had 12 years to do it!

And you seem to forget WHY the UNSC "didn't buy it".  They wanted to keep getting free oil.
Title: Wha' Hoppen?
Post by: DREDIOCK on March 07, 2005, 07:31:51 AM
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Where is the WMD? Who was right?


Probably in your basement