Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: daddog on March 05, 2005, 10:08:58 AM
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Gentlemen,
With 107 Allied players and 95 Axis players the following took place.
The only Axis target A12 was destroyed for 200 Axis points.
The three Allied targets were mostly destroyed.
The Allies shot down:
38 Fw-190s = 380 points
11 Bf-109s = 110 points
8 Me-110s = 120 points
1 Ju88 = 15 points
Destroyed 2.5 targets = 500 points
Defense points = 0
Total = 1025 Allied points
The Axis shot down:
17 P-47s = 170 points
27 P-51s = 250 points
23 B-26s = 345 points
7 P-38s = 70 points
Destroyed 1 target = 200 points
Defense points = 100
Total = 1135 points
*Defense points are given to a side if they are able to keep an enemy from destroying a target. For example had the Allied been unable to destroy the flak factory the Axis would have received the 200 points for it. Had the Allied only destroyed ½ the target then each side would have received 100 points.
A difference of only 90 points. For all practical purposes it was a draw. The Allied were very successful in destroying their targets, but at a great loss of aircraft. The Axis were also successful in destroying their target, but had lost fewer aircraft in part due to the fact they are mostly defending. If the Allied can achieve success in destroying their targets in frames 2 and 3, but keep their aircraft losses down then they should be able to pull out a win. If not then it could be anyones game. :)
As always if you see any errors or know of scoring anomalies please post them here and I will adjust accordingly.
Aces:
JB73 6 kills
93gt 5 kills
DmdRodan 5 kills
Top Bomber Pilots:
Kikbts 25 objects
Robo 16 objects
MtnDewCH 15 objects
RUKCH 12 objects
gOOseCH 12 objects
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CO Head CM daddog
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Noses in the wind since 1997.
daddog@hitechcreations.com
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Money will buy you a pretty good dog, but it won't buy the wag of his tail. Unknown
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to all responsible!
It was alot o fun!:aok
BTW....I killed a P47 in my JU88...:D
I wish there had been a secondary target for us tho. Either there were no other important targets, or it was an oversight given the short time our AXIS last minute CO had to prepare. Just an observation. I also....1st time in a level bomber in FSO....wish I had known ahead of time that the "old" bombsite was in use.
Now I know .
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Originally posted by GooseAW
I wish there had been a secondary target for us tho. Either there were no other important targets, or it was an oversight...
I know what you mean, a few Allied pilots pulled ahead and plastered the Ack Factory leaving only scattered buildings up for the rest of us. Our secondary target had already been destroyed even before we drop on the primary so most of us still had bombs or dropped extras into the primary just to lighten the load.
Of course you guys in the Ju88s have a bigger bomb load then a B-17 if they let you carry a full load. I bet that really was frustrating.
S!
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My apologies for that gents. I don't think TeeeRex expected the targets at 12 to go down so quickly. :) I gather the sweep and initial strike went very well.
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Originally posted by daddog
My apologies for that gents. I don't think TeeeRex expected the targets at 12 to go down so quickly. :) I gather the sweep and initial strike went very well.
None neccessary. And a BIG to Teerex for stepping up at the 12th hour!
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I am checking the logs now, but I know our squad shot down more than 1 Ju88. I think we had 10 actually.
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Yep, I am not sure where your off, but I know the USMC shot down 10 JU88's. Check our logs. You have total Allied kills at 58. It should be 62 according to the logs.
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Will peek again. :)
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You were right Tracer! 10 Ju88's were shot down. My mistake. I don't know if I forgot the "zero" or what. :)
The Allies shot down:
38 Fw-190s = 380 points
11 Bf-109s = 110 points
8 Me-110s = 120 points
10 Ju88 = 150 points
Destroyed 2.5 targets = 500 points
Defense points = 0
Total = 1260 Allied points
The Axis shot down:
17 P-47s = 170 points
27 P-51s = 250 points
23 B-26s = 345 points
7 P-38s = 70 points
Destroyed 1 target = 200 points
Defense points = 100
Total = 1135 points
Difference is 125 points. Close, still very close. :)
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Not to nit-pick...............well, ok nit-picking here, shouldn't 27 downed P-51s = 270, not 250?
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Thanks JB42. I normally make mistakes, just not so many. ;)
The Allies shot down:
38 Fw-190s = 380 points
11 Bf-109s = 110 points
8 Me-110s = 120 points
10 Ju88 = 150 points
Destroyed 2.5 targets = 500 points
Defense points = 0
Total = 1260 Allied points
The Axis shot down:
17 P-47s = 170 points
27 P-51s = 270 points
23 B-26s = 345 points
7 P-38s = 70 points
Destroyed 1 target = 200 points
Defense points = 100
Total = 1155 points
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Lol daddog. No problem, just amazed at how close this is. with frame 2 results, the Axis holds a hair-thin lead of 5 points. Frame 3 ought to be a doosy. :D
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:)
Just saw a post by JB73 that you guys flew for about 90 minutes in frame 2 without any action. :( Sorry about that.
I will post a reminder to all C.O.'s that the targets need to be hit in the first hour.
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Actually that's not correct. We saw plenty of action within the first 30 minutes. Mostly fighters using the time to either bounce or run us out of fuel. It's the bomber that came in way late. The crux of the complaint is the tactics the Allies use consedering the limitations that the FSO has to have. Something like this:
We all know the superior fuel advantage the Allies have. Can't blame them for trying to use this to their advantage. It has been a long since practice of basically running the LW out of fuel in order to hit targets realitively untouched. But the limitations of how things are run in the FSO make this very very frustrating.
As it is now, because of the rules and, let's be honest, less than honest people, LW is forced to go wheels up while Allied bombers are still rolling down the runways in England. That never happened, and if it did, by pure coincedence. In RL, sweeps and scouts would report activity along with radar installations to obtain information on IB enemies. Only then would LW interceptors be scrambled.
Now before anyone puts forth the arguement that LW could launch and wait on the runway, there is the entertainment factor of a game, not real life. Nobody wants to sit idle on a runway for the first 30-45 minutes of the event.
I think what 73 was getting at is in order to both simulate some RL action but to keep the attention of an A/D/D community, it should behove the Allies to attack their targets with the vigor and voracity that they are capable of. Not to dilly-dally behind the notion that we can do this, so we should.
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In the interest of fairness, I must mention now that there is an error now in the results for frame 1 in the Allies favor. You now show 67 total aircraft destroyed by the Allies. I think the Logs show it should be 62. All I know is that 10 of our kills were Ju88's. You will have to recount the rest. I think the Allies score is overstated by about 50 points. Sorry to send you back to the drawing board again. :)
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Originally posted by JB42
We all know the superior fuel advantage the Allies have. Can't blame them for trying to use this to their advantage. It has been a long since practice of basically running the LW out of fuel in order to hit targets realitively untouched. But the limitations of how things are run in the FSO make this very very frustrating.
I am not sure if you were defending A35 or not JB42, but our intent was not to run the LW out of gas. Our actual flight path to attack A35 was not assigned with the orders. We had a short meeting with the escort groups before we launched, and we decided to hit A35 from the SW if possible. I liked this idea since we could continue to A50 if we needed to finish off any targets there.
Durring our flight, because of the layout of the fields, and A37 was a target, I decided to go even further south, and go between Fields A38 & A39 to give us the best approach to A35. This added time to our arrival, and I think we ended up droping on the target at 1:05 from launch. It is still close, but I think we took a little too long to get to target. We should have run a few routes so we knew how long it would take. I can assure you however, our intent was not to run the LW out of gas.
I hope this helps explain what happened. I imagine that if you had to drop tanks early, you might not have had fuel to stay up over an hour, but if you used your drop tanks fully, shouldn't your endurance be longer than 1 hour?
Here is my log for reference:
TracerX
00:22:09 ------ Arrived Safely At Field #14
22:47:14 ------ Departs From Field #10 in a B-26B
22:49:03 ------ Joined By SKDMRK As A Gunner/Observer.
23:51:00 ------ Destroyed Fighter Hangar At Field #35.
23:51:00 ------ Destroyed Fighter Hangar At Field #35.
23:59:53 ------ Destroyed Fighter Hangar At Field #50.
Pilot Totals: Kills 0; Assists 0; Objects 3; Deaths 0.
I think I calculate actually 1:04 till I killed the first hanger. A lot less than 90 minutes.
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As I recall, we C HAWKS who were in 109G-6, had to lose drop tanks with about 40% remaining when engaged by similar sized group of P47s. After killing or driving low these jugs, we returned to A35 area and found 2 more jugs lower. Once these were disposed of we had to land for fuel/ammo. We were on climbout when your B26s arrived from the south. I let drop tanks go and managed to reach and kill 1 B26 just before bomb drop. I was immediately swarmed by higher P51s and had to pull off the bombers.
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I think I remember seeing you in my Bomb scope Goose. ;) Nice shooting to get a B26 like that. I am suprised you were able to get one of our B26's. Some of our guys are crack shots.
I read your previous AAR, but I was wondering if you were the only squad charged with defending A35? We had 3 squads assigned to attack it. 2 Escorts, and us Bombing. Where would the rest of the LW have been? It seems a little lopsided no matter how you look at it if you were the only squad assigned to defend.
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JBs were there with us also. The JBs tht were still around at your arrival were affected by the same circumstances we faced I believe. They were in 190s and at that point the ones I saw in that AO were well under 20k and/or were refueling.
10 to 15 minutes earlier and things might have been a lil different as we all still had plenty of ammo, and the several that I know who dinged a prop or clipped a building when trying to hotload would've still been in the mix.
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yes, the JB's were there therotically...
we were engaged by P47's 30 minutes prior, and as you know dogfighting takes more fuel than cruise. also ammo. we were then engaged again, about 15 minutes before the bombers came in.
when we got back over A35 airspace we were in 2 groups. the group i was in was down to 3/4 FWD tanks on the 190, thats not real far to fly, and low on ammo. we reloaded, lost 1 on the reload, and went into a WEP climb. WEP ran out about 12k and by then we could see the 15k+ bombers IB, and the 25K p51's. the p51's engaged us from a 10K advantage and we never had a chance.
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Nightmares were tasked with defending A50. Took awhile for the Allies to punch through the other ring of LW defenders and bases. They did make a run on A50 before the hour mark .. but not in force.
Part of this I think was do to the allied bombers in the first wave not really being able to punch past A35 and A37.
We kept waiting for a strike to come in from the North (out of the North Sea) which never happened. It seems (in hindsight) that the allies kept had a problem with timing and kept coming on from the SW in small waves which got bounced by others squads and then hit by us.
We lost 1 fighter hangar to a B26 strike about mid frame.
But toward the end of the frame .. for some reason I think at T+70 or T+80 (not sure on exact time) .. a major B26 strike of like 9+ boxes came in. Only light escort and we had a field day with them. Problem was that the B26s were flying very tight formation. So they had some very effective fire .. several of my guys had to put down do to oil and radiator hits.
As for myself I did several runs on the B26s, took down one on a firing pass, extended through and slammed into a B26 .. dooh.
Whatever the allied plan was or if the B26s just got stripped of fighters trying to break the LW outer ring .. they lost a ton of B26s (50 all told).
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Originally posted by ghostdancer
...But toward the end of the frame .. for some reason I think at T+70 or T+80 (not sure on exact time) .. a major B26 strike of like 9+ boxes came in. Only light escort and we had a field day with them. Problem was that the B26s were flying very tight formation. So they had some very effective fire .. several of my guys had to put down do to oil and radiator hits.
As for myself I did several runs on the B26s, took down one on a firing pass, extended through and slammed into a B26 .. dooh.
Whatever the allied plan was or if the B26s just got stripped of fighters trying to break the LW outer ring .. they lost a ton of B26s (50 all told).
That was us in the B26's, and you got two of our formations enroute to A50 after hitting our assigned target at A35. Our guys had a choice, but would hear no arguments for returning home as long as A50 still had even a single hanger up. We got an additional 3 hangers at A50. I think it was a good exchange.
We noticed that the formations that were not grouped up tight got hit pretty hard. You did a good job in thinning the herd there. For your info, we started with 13 formations, and had about 11 by the time we hit A50.
The reason we were alone is because our escorts (AK's and 412th?) screened ahead of us over A35, and then had to head home for fuel. They did a great job for us. We could not get to the target as fast as they did, and that is why we kinda staggered over in successive waves. We had a blast, and it sounds like the LW did as well.
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Yeah we targeted your groups that were seperated and not flying tight formation with your core group. Had good success there and I guess its a good lesson to bomber pilots .. stay tight with each other. Since we tore the boxes that were by themselves to pieces with little damage to us.
But that main group of you .. all clustered together like sheep .. well found out those sheep were packing some serious guns. Would do a diving pass and dive pass the target group of bombers only to be lit up by everyone else around them as we extended. Lost many planes do to that .. both kills, collisions, and damage forcing planes to break off and land.
Was fun there are the end.