Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Nefarious on March 05, 2005, 11:17:13 AM
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This Spring the Navy is planning on sinking the USS America, using weapons and/or explosives.
http://www.wavy.com/Global/story.asp?S=3030700&nav=23iiX63R
They also have plans for sinking the Oriskany later in the year off of Pensacola.
I had a very fun experience, with my dad and his brother Dave, on the America in 1991.
My dad served on 4 Different Carriers when he was in the Navy for 20 Years, And his last ship was the America, and we got to take a ride off of Norfolk, And they gave away all sorts of Tshirts and stickers, I still have all my VA-85 Black Falcons T's, there going on 15 years old! I usually where them around the house :D
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Not that I have a problem with creation of artificial reefs or anything..... It just seems that is a rather expensive way to do it. Doesn't the Navy consider the salvage value of the hulls / equipment?
I'd rather reefs were made out of concrete forms rather than steel / aluminum and so on. Seems such a waste of refined metal.:(
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They're not doing it to make an artificial reef dude. The place they're sinking it is 6,000 ft deep. They're doing to test the effects of explosives on a carrier hull. After they get their data they're going to scuttle it. The data will be used to improve future ship design.
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Well in that case I am just a curious as to why they aren't doing the reef thing. If they NEED to blow it up at least get some use out of the remains..... What a waste.....
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The Oriskany will be sunk for an Artificial Reef.
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Originally posted by Maverick
Not that I have a problem with creation of artificial reefs or anything..... It just seems that is a rather expensive way to do it. Doesn't the Navy consider the salvage value of the hulls / equipment?
I'd rather reefs were made out of concrete forms rather than steel / aluminum and so on. Seems such a waste of refined metal.:(
its not worth it. read an article were the navy said they would have to pay to much to get rid of it due to the low price they get for they steel and stuff.
ill see if i can find the article for you if you need it
http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=82979&ran=200497
"The Navy has several other carriers awaiting their fates. Environmental regulations make breaking warships up for scrap metal largely unprofitable, though some still are dismantled. One smaller World War II carrier, the Oriskany, is scheduled to be sunk as an artificial reef off the coast of Pensacola, Fla., late this year."
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I always wondered why these ships arent sold to private industry or refitted for scientific use.
Im sure every oceanographic or marine science related institute and scientists would love to have a floating laboratory.
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dont you think the runnig/maintnance cost of a huge retired carrier would be abit high?
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Metal is actually the best material for coral growrth is what I heard from some people who do this sort of work.
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ever done any wreck diving grun?
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Nilsen, a gutted carrier is a whole new deal. no bigger maintainance cost than a regular big ship id say.
not to mention the crew of thousands being reduced to a mere hundred or so :)
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dont get me wrong IOI, im all for letting them have these ships, and how they keep them is their business as long as they do it in a safe manner for themselves, others and the enviroment. just dont think they would be very practical for any real use. im picturing alot of greenpeace nerds using the boat like the tanker in waterworld :D
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I would rather see them both as Floating Museums,
Better too let them Make some Revenue, then blowing them up.
It would be nice to take my children (When I get some) to the USS America, and say Grandad used to live and work on this ship.
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Originally posted by Nilsen
ever done any wreck diving grun?
Could you imagine wreck diving a carrier?
Nice.
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They should let the Chinese have a crack at it with their new Mach 2 Anti Shipping Missiles. Though that might sink it faster then they wan't for testing purposes. :lol
...-Gixer
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Once they install all of the onboard cameras and telemetry, they will tow her to the testing site. Testing, they say, will take weeks. They are expected to test missiles, torpedoes and mines on her. Needless to say, she will probably look like a big piece os swiss cheese once they finally send her down with explosives. The test site is in 6000 feet of water. I don't think anyone will be diving on her too soon.
I understand she is the only non-nuke super carrier. That ought to make the evironmentalists breath easier.
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Originally posted by Raubvogel
They're not doing it to make an artificial reef dude. .
like totally dude. bogus.
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Originally posted by Martlet
Could you imagine wreck diving a carrier?
Nice.
that would be nice. probelm is that you would have trouble diving down to the keel if it was layed flat and the top mast was just under the surface. its huge man..dude man
:)
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Storm,
the USN built 8 fossil fuel driven super carriers
4 x Forrestal Class attack carriers
CVA 59 USS Forrestal
CVA 60 USS Saratoga
CVA 61 USS Ranger
CVA 62 USS Indpendence
3x Kitty Hawk class attack carriers
CVA 63 USS Kitty Hawk
CVA 64 Constellation
CVA 66 USS America
All though similar in apperance and often lumped in with the Kitty Hawks , the USS John F Kennedy CVA-67 was built to a much modified design. She was so different internally that she is really a 1 ship class
CVA 67 USS John F Kennedy
Vati
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Oriskany will be 200 feet deep. Way past the limits of recreational diving.
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Originally posted by Nilsen
that would be nice. probelm is that you would have trouble diving down to the keel if it was layed flat and the top mast was just under the surface. its huge man..dude man
:)
That's true, but the top part of the ship would have so much to explore you could dive on it for menths before seeing it all. What a heck of a dive vacation!
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I'm glad they're going to do some real testing because we recently dropped some new live GPS guided bombs on a moving ship, and the intardnet readers around the world weren't the only ones who noticed that after 4-5 direct hits, the boat kept going and wouldn't sink. So maybe we need to re-think some of our weapons, fuzes, or take a hard look at why some ships sink with relatively minor damage and why some stay afloat after getting whacked with multiple direct hits by reasonably modern weapons.
The US military is "transforming" and it wouldn't suprise me to see a new class of carriers get developed that are more responsive to modern needs. Faster, cheaper to operate, requiring fewer crew, etc. It would be nice to incorporate as many lessons as possible into the new designs.
That said, a sunken CV would make a great reef/dive site and it's a shame it's not being sunk in water shallow enough to be suitable as a dive site.
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Originally posted by Maverick
That's true, but the top part of the ship would have so much to explore you could dive on it for menths before seeing it all. What a heck of a dive vacation!
I agree.
the danger is that divers, and usually new divers easily loose track of how deep they are and they just wanna go abit deeper and for abit longer if the target is tempting. that goes for all kinds of diving but exciting wrecks are among the most dangerous and tempting.
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Maybe they're sinking it deep so other countries have a hard time gleaning any information as to how well our ships can resist an attack?
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Why Blow it up?
Cause it's damn fun!
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If you were on board, I push the button myself! :p
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It's a sad but honorable end to a ship I spent nearly a year of my life on underway. Better this than the scrappers torch. What is learned will be passed on to future designs.
I'm also glad she's going deep. RIP.
-Smut
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Originally posted by Nilsen
that would be nice. probelm is that you would have trouble diving down to the keel if it was layed flat and the top mast was just under the surface. its huge man..dude man
:)
A friend of mine dove the wreck of the Saratoga off Bikini atoll. I posted pics here once I think.
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I belive sending a ship to the bottom is much more honorable then scrapping it..
During war time, thats a different story, but seeing as were allready ****ing up our carriers might as well make it complete..
(still angry about mothballing the JFK)
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Ditto Smut,
One of my boats was scrapped... USS Lockwood, sad pics of that.
Send her down to a honorable death. Lets get some info while were at it and then test the info on China's carrier. If it sinks, good deal, if not, back to the drawing board.
:D
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My dad served on her. Sad, but better then the torch.
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I served on her from her commission in 1965 until November 1967. she now sits 18,000 feet below, flightdeck upright. Miss her, but they used her for a good reason. Rather she her go down then cut up. CVA
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I'm glad they're going to do some real testing because we recently dropped some new live GPS guided bombs on a moving ship, and the intardnet readers around the world weren't the only ones who noticed that after 4-5 direct hits, the boat kept going and wouldn't sink. So maybe we need to re-think some of our weapons, fuzes, or take a hard look at why some ships sink with relatively minor damage and why some stay afloat after getting whacked with multiple direct hits by reasonably modern weapons.
There's a big difference when the target is loaded full of aircraft, fuel and ordnance. The Argentinians showed us what iron bombs can do to shipping. Conversely, 1 modern torpedo is usually enough to snap the keel of any current ship, so I think we're in pretty good shape if ever we need to sink a couple.
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Not sure I'm comfortable with them blowing up a ship named America.
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Not sure I'm comfortable with them blowing up a ship named America.
Did you read the date of this thread? The USS America was sunk back in 2005. You're a little late to get uncomfortable about it.
She was put to good use in her final resting place. I agree much better than being scraped.
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Did you read the date of this thread? The USS America was sunk back in 2005. You're a little late to get uncomfortable about it.
She was put to good use in her final resting place. I agree much better than being scraped.
Forgive Die Hard, he's four years late and a few dollars short.
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Forgive Die Hard, he's four years late and a few dollars short.
... says the guy who also clicked on this thread. WTG.
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... says the guy who also clicked on this thread. WTG.
LOL, you're the one "lamenting" over this thread. I was merely properly informing my friend Shifty.
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I'm lamenting over this thread?
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I'm lamenting over this thread?
Well if you are lamentaing DH... Frau Shifty says she'd love new flooring in the kitchen. :aok
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Don't think so, sorry. Thanks for the job offer though. Most considerate. ;)
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I was on the America from 93-94 in my Navy days...great boat..
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Wow! I got caught too. Didn't even notice the necro-thread... :o
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Haven't found a vid of the America being sunk but I did find one of
them blowing up my old ship back in '07
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=7735185
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Don't think so, sorry. Thanks for the job offer though. Most considerate. ;)
Crap I was hoping I ran into a contractor. :D