Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: tikky on March 06, 2005, 01:15:32 AM

Title: 190 remodeling?
Post by: tikky on March 06, 2005, 01:15:32 AM
i digged to some threads and says that 190 will get FM remodeling, what's gonna be the FM change for this already ( kinda) excelent hi speed fighter?
Title: 190 remodeling?
Post by: BUG_EAF322 on March 06, 2005, 07:01:04 AM
U guys don't think its uber enough ??

In good hands the FW is a very survivable superb plane.

Maybe they do something on the stick stirrin features of it.

That would be :aok
Title: 190 remodeling?
Post by: moot on March 06, 2005, 08:52:35 AM
Bug you should probably do the consulting and advising when they'll review the FM.
Title: 190 remodeling?
Post by: tikky on March 06, 2005, 04:13:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
U guys don't think its uber enough ??

In good hands the FW is a very survivable superb plane.

Maybe they do something on the stick stirrin features of it.

That would be :aok


yes AH2's 190s can roll, stick stirr, and and dive as fast as 262s, so what's the deal with tweaking 190?
Title: 190 remodeling?
Post by: MANDO on March 06, 2005, 05:57:32 PM
The question after so many months is When?
Title: 190 remodeling?
Post by: Crumpp on March 06, 2005, 09:20:02 PM
Right now AH's FW-190A5 is based off of EB-104.

EB-104 was a captured FW-190G3 (based off the FW-190A5) which the USAAF tried to put back to FW-190A4 standards.

It's performance is not representative of any 190A fighter varient.

All the best,

Crumpp
Title: 190 remodeling?
Post by: Wolfala on March 06, 2005, 09:22:34 PM
Crumpp

Can u elaborate? seems interesting
Title: 190 remodeling?
Post by: Crumpp on March 06, 2005, 09:46:36 PM
Quote
Can u elaborate? seems interesting


The G3 incorporated a number of design changes which suited to it role of long range fast attack bomber that make it very difficult to put back to fighter standards.

1.  Cooling gills were not adjustable and were constantly open creating more cooling drag.

2.  Cowl MG's were removed along with outter wing cannon.

3.  Intake was wider to accomodate increased cooling requirements for hauling ordinance long distances creating even more cooling drag.

4. Junkers, Messerschmitt, and Focke Wulf hardpoints created even more drag.

EB-104 had a rated engine and was one of the few the allies actually bench tested for power.  It's power development was over 100 hp less than a BMW-801D2 in Luftwaffe service according to it's power curve.

Because EB-104 was too light it climbed much more steeply but slower than a fighter varient FW-190.  I expect Pyro will match the German curves meaning the climb rate will decrease and speed increase.

Low altitude speed will increase while high altitude FTH speed will decrease some again falling into the Luftwaffe data.

Turn rate will improve coming very close to the sustained rate of the F6F-5 Hellcat.  Instantaneous turn rate will improve not as result of the FW-190's drag profile but due to it's lift characteristics.  Pyro has copies of the FW-190's lift polars.
I suspect it's roll rate will improve somewhat over RAE 1231's measurements as well since that report represents an FW-190 with out of adjustment ailerons.

All in All some tweaking which will bring the 190 in line with the correct Luftwaffe data making a much more accurate representation of the design.

FW-190G3 performance compared to a fighter varient:

(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/503_1109451277_fw190_g3_s.gif)

Hope this helps!

Crumpp
Title: 190 remodeling?
Post by: Vudak on March 06, 2005, 09:53:39 PM
A sustained turn rate matching the Hellcat???

Now THAT will be fun!

(Maybe a few more FW's stick around and fight then...)






























...  And maybe Hell will get a hockey team.

:)
Title: 190 remodeling?
Post by: Kweassa on March 06, 2005, 10:33:08 PM
A sustained turn rate matching the Hellcat, would be something that outturns all of our AH 109s, the P-51, La-5FN, La-7, Yaj-9U, etc etc etc..

 In that case the 'anecdotal' comments on how 109s turned better than 190s would go haywire...
Title: 190 remodeling?
Post by: Crumpp on March 06, 2005, 10:45:16 PM
Quote
A sustained turn rate matching the Hellcat, would be something that outturns all of our AH 109s, the P-51, La-5FN, La-7, Yaj-9U, etc etc etc..


I highly doubt it.  The F6F-5 is a several thousand pounds heavier than the FW-190 with almost exactly the same CLmax.

In all probability the AH F6F-5 turns too well.

All the best,

Crumpp
Title: 190 remodeling?
Post by: Karnak on March 06, 2005, 10:51:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Crumpp
In all probability the AH F6F-5 turns too well.

Heh.  I've said similar things about several aircraft in AH.  Oddly, fans of those aircraft seem to aggressively disagree with me.  Ah well.

It'll be interesting to see what the Fw190 is like after the remodel.  It has one of the three best WWII cockpits that I know of.  Such a great layout and so funtional.

The Fw190As are just great looking fighters.
Title: 190 remodeling?
Post by: Kweassa on March 06, 2005, 10:58:08 PM
Quote
Heh. I've said similar things about several aircraft in AH. Oddly, fans of those aircraft seem to aggressively disagree with me. Ah well.


 Don't go there, Karnak.

 We gonna be burned at the stake.
Title: 190 remodeling?
Post by: Vudak on March 07, 2005, 12:29:55 AM
The P-51 at least still has those crazy flaps that should continue to drive FW pilots bonkers.
Title: 190 remodeling?
Post by: GScholz on March 07, 2005, 11:58:33 AM
The F6F-5 really doesn't have much of a chance in a flat turn against the La-5/7, Yak-9U, 109F-4/G-2 (possibly G-6) ... without using flaps. I doubt wartime tests were done with flaps out.
Title: 190 remodeling?
Post by: tikky on March 07, 2005, 03:24:31 PM
Crumpp, now we got some preview of the 190A. Whatabout the Dora (is it gonna be changed)?
Title: 190 remodeling?
Post by: Crumpp on March 07, 2005, 07:35:41 PM
Quote
Whatabout the Dora (is it gonna be changed)?


Don't know.  It is up to Pyro as is the actual changes to the FW-190A.

All the best,

Crumpp
Title: 190 remodeling?
Post by: mora on April 13, 2005, 12:09:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Crumpp
The G3 incorporated a number of design changes which suited to it role of long range fast attack bomber that make it very difficult to put back to fighter standards.

1.  Cooling gills were not adjustable and were constantly open creating more cooling drag.

2.  Cowl MG's were removed along with outter wing cannon.

3.  Intake was wider to accomodate increased cooling requirements for hauling ordinance long distances creating even more cooling drag.

4. Junkers, Messerschmitt, and Focke Wulf hardpoints created even more drag.

EB-104 had a rated engine and was one of the few the allies actually bench tested for power.  It's power development was over 100 hp less than a BMW-801D2 in Luftwaffe service according to it's power curve.

Because EB-104 was too light it climbed much more steeply but slower than a fighter varient FW-190.  I expect Pyro will match the German curves meaning the climb rate will decrease and speed increase.

Low altitude speed will increase while high altitude FTH speed will decrease some again falling into the Luftwaffe data.

Turn rate will improve coming very close to the sustained rate of the F6F-5 Hellcat.  Instantaneous turn rate will improve not as result of the FW-190's drag profile but due to it's lift characteristics.  Pyro has copies of the FW-190's lift polars.
I suspect it's roll rate will improve somewhat over RAE 1231's measurements as well since that report represents an FW-190 with out of adjustment ailerons.

All in All some tweaking which will bring the 190 in line with the correct Luftwaffe data making a much more accurate representation of the design.

FW-190G3 performance compared to a fighter varient:

(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/503_1109451277_fw190_g3_s.gif)

Hope this helps!

Crumpp


So, did we get these changes in the latest patch?

At least the roll rate seems more sluggish than before. Turn rate, especially sustained is way better than before, but not quite like a Hellcat.
Title: 190 remodeling?
Post by: Grits on April 13, 2005, 01:18:36 PM
Opinions vary, but I dont think they changed changed anything other than they now model the drag of the ETC bomb/DT rack after the DT is dropped. I think the rest is placebo.
Title: 190 remodeling?
Post by: hitech on April 13, 2005, 02:27:53 PM
I belive you are correct grits.
Title: 190 remodeling?
Post by: Naudet on April 14, 2005, 02:06:57 AM
Crumpp, you got my email concerning the D9 material at the Smithsonian?
Title: 190 remodeling?
Post by: Crumpp on April 14, 2005, 04:22:47 PM
Got it and replied!

All the best,

Crumpp
Title: 190 remodeling?
Post by: soda72 on April 14, 2005, 04:31:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Grits
Opinions vary, but I dont think they changed changed anything other than they now model the drag of the ETC bomb/DT rack after the DT is dropped. I think the rest is placebo.


.squelch grits