Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Vudak on March 08, 2005, 07:13:31 PM
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Can we have some bases be uncapturable/undamageable?
Just maybe 1 or 2 per map?
Is this possible on the current maps? If this is not possible on current ones, is there any chance it could be possible for future ones?
I'm sorry but plenty have complained about it before - this game can get boring. There's no real need for some map's center island's FHs to go down when it's the only place where a decent non-hording fight is going on... For example.
Sorry, I don't care about "the war". You strat fellows can have the other ninety bases or so. Just give us three please.
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HiTech already said he hates this idea and the next person to bring it up will have their account locked. Was nice knowing ya Vudak! :D
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Ok, Ok, so I stretched the truth a bit. :D
HiTech did say it was a bad idea, no idea why a *Fighter Town* on the maps would be bad. If we had an undamageable/uncapturable Fighter Town I would never leave it :)
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Originally posted by Elfie
Ok, Ok, so I stretched the truth a bit. :D
If we had an undamageable/uncapturable Fighter Town I would never leave it :)
COuld this maybe be why Hitech fears fighter town? The rest of the map might be filled with shed flatteners only?
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No doubt about it. When OZ was up Fighter/GV island was a blast. Truth is, I actually started flying some base capture missions because I had gotten my fill of ACM for a while.
The beauty of it was when I got my fill of Base Cap stuff I was ready to go back to FB island. Was one of the best weeks I have had in AHII until the maroons started capturing the FHrs on FB island.
With the ease of killing FHrs and the total impotence of CVs this game has had very little to offer the ACM/FB guys and has gotten down right boring, so much so that when there's any other map than Fester's up I just go and watch TV, and that is sad when TV has more to offer.
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COuld this maybe be why Hitech fears fighter town? The rest of the map might be filled with shed flatteners only?
Maybe at times, but it will swing both ways, as I mentioned above. A constant furball area would do wonders for this game, I only wish HT thought the same.
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There already is a constant furball area. Its called the Dueling arena.
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Originally posted by jdpete75
There already is a constant furball area. Its called the Dueling arena.
It's for Duels....not furballs dolt. Hence the name DUELING Arena.
Seems obvious you havent ever been in there. If you had, you would know it's not setup for furballs. It is however, beautifully set up so multiple duels can occur at the same time w/o interfering with each other.
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Originally posted by jdpete75
There already is a constant furball area. Its called the Dueling arena.
Don't bring up that "argument" please... Three bases in the MA can be spared...
The MA's where most people are at any given time. If you want the DA to be a furball arena you need to plan in advance - great for once a week, not so great for any given night.
Forgive me for my complete ignorance on how the war is "won" but I thought that you only had to knock a country down to something along the lines of 5-6 bases? I could be completely wrong... But at any rate, if you don't have to capture them all, why not make 1 per country uncapturable in the first place.
HT, I've heard you hate this, but please reconsider... If all the furballers/ACM guys go away (or to the DA) the strat guys will have no one left who's willing to stick around and be shot :D
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Forgive me for my complete ignorance on how the war is "won" but I thought that you only had to knock a country down to something along the lines of 5-6 bases? I could be completely wrong... But at any rate, if you don't have to capture them all, why not make 1 per country uncapturable in the first place.
Exactly put one indestructable, uncapturable base, surrounded by 5" guns, with no ordinance or troops, for each country on opposing sides of one sector. Place them in the middle, on the corner or any other part of the map. Surround them with other fields or leave them sectioned off by a large gap between them and the other cities. Take all attack potential from them and leave only planes, bullets, and gas.
This would have very little affect on the overall war. The only people it would affect are the people that like to ruin the fights by killing all the hangers or the CVs.
It would take the offensive threat away from these three fields so people didn't feel like they had to be flattened to win the war. The bases would be out of the win the war path.
It would stop the tension between the Bomber/Win The War types and the furballers.
It would give back the seminal part of the game that has been missing for a long while.
It would bring many vets back that loved the fights and quit due to the lack there of.
It would shut up all whines that stem from this.
and finally it would just add another reason to love the game even more.
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as a former advocate for the Fighter Town in AirWarrior, I like this idea :D
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Originally posted by FDutchmn
as a former advocate for the Fighter Town in AirWarrior, I like this idea :D
Me too.
culero (and hiyas FD! You in Coral Sea?)
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Originally posted by mars01
Exactly put one indestructable, uncapturable base, surrounded by 5" guns, with no ordinance or troops, for each country on opposing sides of one sector. Place them in the middle, on the corner or any other part of the map. Surround them with other fields or leave them sectioned off by a large gap between them and the other cities. Take all attack potential from them and leave only planes, bullets, and gas.
This would have very little affect on the overall war. The only people it would affect are the people that like to ruin the fights by killing all the hangers or the CVs.
It would take the offensive threat away from these three fields so people didn't feel like they had to be flattened to win the war. The bases would be out of the win the war path.
It would stop the tension between the Bomber/Win The War types and the furballers.
It would give back the seminal part of the game that has been missing for a long while.
It would bring many vets back that loved the fights and quit due to the lack there of.
It would shut up all whines that stem from this.
and finally it would just add another reason to love the game even more.
I didnt like this idea at all because I am a "Shed Smasher" by nature, but after reading this post, I wouldnt mind seeing it put into place. Nice Post Mars01! :aok
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If this happens the GV'ers will want an area where VH's can't be taken down, bases cant be captured, and troops stay enabled all the time (for supplys). Basically 'tank town' with a few extras.
Sorry not for either, even being a GV'er.
Enough concessions have been given to the furballers-
1) no night.
2) min 75% fuel.
3) almost constant dar.
Out of the above 3, 1 + 3 negatively impact buff flyers!!
I for one hope HT doesn't implement it.
Don't see why the DA can't be used if you want to furball.
If anytihng it would increase tensions, if one group gets what may be seen as 'preferential' treatment, then why shoudln't all other groups.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
If this happens the GV'ers will want an area where VH's can't be taken down, bases cant be captured, and troops stay enabled all the time (for supplys). Basically 'tank town' with a few extras.
Sorry not for either, even being a GV'er.
Enough concessions have been given to the furballers-
1) no night.
2) min 75% fuel.
3) almost constant dar.
Out of the above 3, 1 + 3 negatively impact buff flyers!!
I for one hope HT doesn't implement it.
Don't see why the DA can't be used if you want to furball.
Sorry, but I don't still don't see what on earth is so wrong about us having three bases in the MA? Even give the gvs 3 bases too.. That makes 6, or 2 per side... Still ~90+ bases for everyone else.
I'm not trying to offend, but the only thing (other then the gv concern) that I got out of your thread, is that you don't want this because you're still sore about the other 3 issues.
DA, as stated above, is non-ideal in that either you have to plan it, or everyone has to spontaneously coincidentally decide to go in there.
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Not sore about the other three issues, was initially though i have to admit.
But if one group gets what will probably be seen as preferential treatment, then ALL other groups, buffers, gv'ers, win the war etc etc groups will expect the same.
Without solid data, at present I would hazard a guess that the 'win the war' group 'may' be the largest group presently in the MA.
As stated I still can't see why you don't use the DA, it's setup exactly as you need it. Don't need to pre-arrange anything, just go there instead of the MA. If the furballers group is that large there should always be opponents in there.
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Not sore about the other three issues, was initially though i have to admit.
But if one group gets what will probably be seen as preferential treatment, then ALL other groups, buffers, gv'ers, win the war etc etc groups will expect the same.
Without solid data, at present I would hazard a guess that the 'win the war' group 'may' be the largest group presently in the MA.
As stated I still can't see why you don't use the DA, it's setup exactly as you need it. Don't need to pre-arrange anything, just go there instead of the MA. If the furballers group is that large there should always be opponents in there.
They're fair points, I just disagree. I still don't see how three bases will affect anyone else to any greater extent then having the DA be the new arena for this sort of thing.
I'm not so sure everyone that likes a fight necessarily wants to GO to the DA. I'd bet a lot of furballers enjoy non-furballers company over 200 and country and such. I know I do.
If we have to leave the MA that basically means leaving everyone else, which would be unfortunate for the community as a whole.
On the current maps, who knows if it would ever work. Even on ones with furball island, I'm sure you'd have those people who would up a fighter at the island just to go vulch a nearby non-island field. That could be a contentious issue, to say the least...
But on a new, not yet made, "wish-map", the area could be seperated away from anything someone would like to attack. Also, if "uncapturable" means "lots of extra coding work", in such a situation, bombers could just be disabled at the particular fields. Anyone who's ever flown in the CT knows that that is currently possible.
That way, at least, if someone really wanted to be a jerk (really no other word in this hypothetical situation), they'd at least have a looong flight before they could shut something down, and that would probably cut down on it happening.
I'm just sick and tired of this "hit or miss" situation with the MA where even if a fun fight does develop, a few high bombers will inevitably end it.
I'd like to have a place in the MA where I could go, still chat with everyone on climbout, and then get into a good ol' uninterrupted scrap. You can only up a Val so many times, ya know?
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Ty 6guns.
Enough concessions have been given to the furballers-
1) no night.
2) min 75% fuel.
3) almost constant dar.
Kev, I also read this as sour grapes and your misdirected thinking it was some furball conspiricy. That is like me saying the easy mode norden sight is a concession for bombers, just plain silly. It makes bombers more accesible so I say good for the bomber guys.
Bombers at night were no more safe then at day time. You can still see the icon easily and most people just turned up their gamma so the bombers were not hideing from anyone.
Almost constant dar. Not true at all. Rooks were without dar just last night and if it were true how would it be some kind of FB conspiricy?
How are 3 FHrs going to impact your game? It's not like your country wont have a field. And on top of which why the heck are you worried about who has more or who got this. Just seems silly. Again tell me how 3 bases that were indestructable, with no offensive capability would affect your game?
Without solid data, at present I would hazard a guess that the 'win the war' group 'may' be the largest group presently in the MA.
If I recall the last run of OZ the centre of the map was the busiest place most of the time so I wouldn't hold your breath on that one.
As stated I still can't see why you don't use the DA, it's setup exactly as you need it. Don't need to pre-arrange anything, just go there instead of the MA. If the furballers group is that large there should always be opponents in there.
That is as silly as me saying if you want to bomb inanamit objects fly offline. The MA is the place people want to fly. Do a search on that topic and you will have most of your replies.
Again how would any of this impact your game? How is the current MA stopping you from doing what you want?
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Concessions have been made to the "furballing camp" because, lets face it, the setup of the game favors the land grabbing toolshedder. Everything HT has given to us "whiners" has only brought the game closer to balance. Unfortunately, the majority of the problem lies with the players and there's nothing HT can do about it.
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Scrounged this up from a discussion about 8 months ago:
Was just looking at OzKansas and noticing the amount of free space in the corners.
Since Tank-town and furball island are some popular areas on other maps, why not incorporate those into OZKS. Say, set aside 9 or so grids in each corner.
Tank-town
Set up invincible ack at spawn points to dissuade campers.
Furball Island. Make airfield ACK indestructible and 100% lethality to eliminate vulchers.
PTsville Water world with PTs and LVTs battling it out. Maybe in a forest of squids?
Fleetopolis: CAs and DDS duking it out in epic fleet battles. No planes.. just ships. Might need more than 9 grids to make this work.
Of course, make all fields and ports at these sub-worlds uncapturable.
Problem here is, of course, that they would need their own field type ( to specify them as uncapturable ) and then the software would need to be changed so as not to factor in those fields when calculating reset for the base capture crowd battling it out in the center of the map.
Well, with the number of fields for a reset to happen is now part of the settings, the last paragraph is moot. Now, just customize the hardness and lethality of such ack settings for these mini-worlds and you're set.
I think one of the big attractions of being in the MA is that there are so many of your buds around, you can be in one of these areas, yet carry on friendly banter with your friends. Cant do that if you're banished to the DA or CT.
There will always be those that like to furball, those that like GVs, those that like Ship guns, bombing facilities, and capturing bases. There really is no reason we can't do it all in the same arena.
My $.02
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Originally posted by Elfie
It's for Duels....not furballs dolt. Hence the name DUELING Arena.
Seems obvious you havent ever been in there. If you had, you would know it's not setup for furballs. It is however, beautifully set up so multiple duels can occur at the same time w/o interfering with each other.
Last time I was in there you could have more than two on any given arena. Hence neverending furball with no toolshedders shmuck!
For the rest of you. I can see your points, maybe something in the middle of a 30k volcano (there is a gv town like that), and just add 1 field to the reset conditions. ie: reset happens at 3 instead of 2. I dont see any reason why that wouldnt work. I dont think it would be that hard to add airfields to the above mentioned volcano with no ord or hurri2c for a tryout either.
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Originally posted by jdpete75
I dont think it would be that hard to add airfields to the above mentioned volcano with no ord or hurri2c.
Just curious, why no hurri2c?
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Seems to me this wouldn't work well, even with only 3 bases I think where ever you put them on the map there is always gonna be an island of bases that may be behind your lines.
Though maybe a tanktown type thing in the middle of a map with high mountains around it... Not indistructible but maybe no troops in this area so if someone wanted to take a base there they would have to take the time to fly a goon 20K+ to get into fighter town.
Just an idea more of a compromise between sending all you furballers to the DA and the indistructible base idea. Again just an idea.
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Ideas.
Change the arenas. It has been said before but lets try again.
Get rid of MA as is make a new Fighter arena for died in the wool Furballers.
Make CT more accessible. Full plane set but divided on a real country basis. ie German planes for the germans, allied planes for the allies etc. Real terrains, with capturable strats etc. Night time back for buff pilots. weather back in full. Make CV groups larger and more potent. Particularly if scenario was a Pacific or Mediteranian one.
Make the MA maps smaller and keep MA as is without all the features above.
Wonder what would happen then?
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Mars - The almost constant dar refers to that apart from if the enemy has a base right next ot oyur HQ, dar is almost constant. Only tie you lose it for extended peoriods is in the case above, but that was true before the change also.
Big difference is that its unusual to lose dar for an extended peiord of time with friendly bases nearby, now that it takes more ord and there is no partially down HQ.
Was, and still is against the easy bomb site, ridiculously easy now.
Remember the theory of the original tank town? High mountains to discourage buffs, did it work? Nope.
GV'ers been asking for even higher mountains, has it happened? Nope.
Will you get 3 uncapturable bases? Nope.
Can we agree on the return of the choo choo of death and most of all the sheep?
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Hey Kev,
If a group wants to kill the dar they have to put together a bomber mission, the way it should be. One or two bombers should not be able to disable the dar.
You still have not answered my questions tho...
1) Tell me how 3 bases that were indestructable, with no offensive capability would affect your game?
2) How is the current MA stopping you from doing what you want?
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The rest of the map might be filled with shed flatteners only?
Wouldn't mind if the dedicated shed flatteners would have an arena of thier own. In fact, most of the bish milkrunners would know no difference if they were sent playing offline. :D
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I would LOVE to see a "furball town." That week of OZ was very sweet on the middle island... best week of AH in a long, long time. It's so difficult on all these other maps to find a steady supply of victims that you don't have to fly 15 minutes to.
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Wouldn't mind if the dedicated shed flatteners would have an arena of thier own.
They already do, it's called the MA.
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Originally posted by Vudak
Just curious, why no hurri2c?
Because the 2c is the one with anti gv cannons isnt it? Neckbone used to pop my turret and kill me all the time with one. It would mess up the tank town on that particular map because people would up them to PO the gvers. Then we are right back to where we are now.
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Because the 2c is the one with anti gv cannons isnt it? Neckbone used to pop my turret and kill me all the time with one. It would mess up the tank town on that particular map because people would up them to PO the gvers. Then we are right back to where we are now.
Anything with cannons will do that. Honestly this is not a problem. The whole idea is for people to fight each other, be it plane Vs plane, gv Vs plane or gv vs gv.
It would be like the fighter guys saying no Ostis. That is stupid. The whole point is to make it so the fights can rage on.
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Last time I was in there you could have more than two on any given arena. Hence neverending furball with no toolshedders shmuck!
Every time this topic comes up someone mentions the DA. The DA is NOT a Fighter Town type arena. People do NOT go there to furball. At no point on the DA map is there a field for all three teams. Bases are set up in pairs at equal altitude.....for DUELING. Dueling is in no way a furball.
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maybe i missed something before, but...wasnt fighter town in AW a separate arena? why not do same thing here? kinda like a DA on steroids i guess, a very small map (like one of those in a H2H) and all the "furballers" go at it, no buffs or ord, just fighters. and, sure maybe a separate isolated area or series of V bases for Gvs?
like i said, this may have been brought up before.
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Originally posted by Elfie
Every time this topic comes up someone mentions the DA. The DA is NOT a Fighter Town type arena. People do NOT go there to furball. At no point on the DA map is there a field for all three teams. Bases are set up in pairs at equal altitude.....for DUELING. Dueling is in no way a furball.
i see the points on both sides, but...
in the meantime...
why NOT use DA for furballs?
true, people dont use it for furballs right now, but put the word out that theres good scraps going on there, and the furballers will start popping in to check it out.
no area for all three teams?
so what? if you just want to furball anyway, team affiliation shouldn't be all that important anyway. just shoot the red guys. your team isnt going to "win the war"
bases set up in pairs at equal altitudes?
so whats the problem with that?
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maybe i missed something before, but...wasnt fighter town in AW a separate arena?
Yes and no.....
The original *Fighter Town* in AirWarrior was on the Big Pac map, in the middle. Later a separate arena was put up with a unique map just for Fighter Town.
why NOT use DA for furballs?
Why banish the furballers to a separate arena?
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Originally posted by Elfie
Why banish the furballers to a separate arena? [/B]
erm... good point.
but its not really like your being banished, its voluntary.
and since there are currently no maps with a pork free "fighter town," why not substitue the DA for the time being.
the game is what you make of it, ya know?
(btw, i lean toward the uncapturable base idea. heck in aw there were only, what 6 "capturable" bases, and 3 of those were vehicle bases.)
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but its not really like your being banished, its voluntary.
and since there are currently no maps with a pork free "fighter town," why not substitue the DA for the time being.
the game is what you make of it, ya know?
No it is being vanished and totally involuntary. If you were in this game strictly for the AtoA combat you would understand that there is a big problem.
As soon as a good fight gets going, some one kills the FHrs or the CV and the fight is dead. Then you have to hope another fight with two bases that are within a sector of each other starts up. Otherwise you do alot of flying around with little fighting to be had.
If you have been following along you would see that Bat and Morph and others have made a stron attempt to organise FB in the DA, the problem is there is no mechanism for coordinating the furball, the fields in DA are not set up for it and the bottom line is most people like to be in the MA where everyone else is. Then add to the fact that people like to switch between FBing and Tool shed killing.
This game is not completely what you make of it. If I log in and every fight is over a sector or more away, all horde action or worse most of the front line hangers are dead then the only thing to make of it is not playing. If there was a designated FB area as with OZ then I would have an option. As it stands, other than OZ and Fester, I don't have the option and that sux.
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Originally posted by jdpete75
Because the 2c is the one with anti gv cannons isnt it? Neckbone used to pop my turret and kill me all the time with one. It would mess up the tank town on that particular map because people would up them to PO the gvers. Then we are right back to where we are now.
you sure your not talking about the D model with the 40mm Vickers?
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mars, would a separate arena not work? like i posted above.
if you are loggin in and feel like not stop furball action, there it is. if you not sure what you want, go to MA and take chances. dunno, maybe the DA would do that, just seems the DA is more for 1 on 1, or squad vs squad. i never log on and look at DA and think, non stop furball, i think some 1 vs 1s going on in there.
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Originally posted by mars01
Hey Kev,
If a group wants to kill the dar they have to put together a bomber mission, the way it should be. One or two bombers should not be able to disable the dar.
You still have not answered my questions tho...
1) Tell me how 3 bases that were indestructable, with no offensive capability would affect your game?
2) How is the current MA stopping you from doing what you want?
1) Personally I don't think it will affect me whatsoever, just don't think it's gonna happen.
2) It doesn't, apart from the inevitable buffs in tank town flattening vhs/supplies.
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Hey Killn
bud,
A separate arena would most definately make things better, but I don't think it will attract or give the novice guy or sometimes AtoA combat guys as much a chance.
One of the great things about a furball is the complete chaos. I have only really seen this most recently during the first couple of nights that OZ was up, on FB Island. I can't remember the last time before that.
I really liked the whole idea of the mass of GVs going at it under the bombers and fighters from all three countries. The bombers and jabos were going after the GVs rather than just getting rid of them by killing the hangers, the fighters were attacking the bombers, while a slew of fighters were duking it out amist all of it.
It was insane, yourself and alot of other guys were there (wish some HTCs peeps were there :D), then some super hero dropped the hangers at one of the fields and some started taking the VHs and the whole thing would start to pitter out and finally some super heros took the other countries base and ended it for a third of the players.
Would this happen in a dedicated FB arena, doubt it, maybe. Would it be great to have a place to go furball, heck yeah. Would it really kick arse in the MA. It already has very rarely thanks to fester and his maps.
Plus like I mentioned above, it was great to take a break from the chaos for the switch to the order of taking a base with some well disciplined folks. Then after that had it's time back to FB island.
Kinda like a theme park mentality. lol
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1) Personally I don't think it will affect me whatsoever, just don't think it's gonna happen.
Exactly Kev, so why do you seem like you need or want to fight it, maybe if more guys like you weren't fighting it and joined in wanting it, eventually it might happen.
2) It doesn't, apart from the inevitable buffs in tank town flattening vhs/supplies.
If I understand you right, this shouldn't be a problem since the VH is indestructable and make supplies indestructable. I think this was one of the biggest problems in Tank Town circa AHI. Since there isn't a town in tank town now that is the biggest problem lol.
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Originally posted by Elfie
Every time this topic comes up someone mentions the DA. The DA is NOT a Fighter Town type arena. People do NOT go there to furball. At no point on the DA map is there a field for all three teams. Bases are set up in pairs at equal altitude.....for DUELING. Dueling is in no way a furball.
So now you need THREE teams to furball? gimme a break:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by simshell
you sure your not talking about the D model with the 40mm Vickers?
Yea thats the one. Never have had my turret popped by a cannon plane (and its not for lack of trying on thier part) other than neckbones Hurri.
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I would actually like to see a "Fighter Town" on the large maps, because I fly during night time in the Far East (which is day time in US and Europe). There are about 70 players online... for which the small maps are fine, but the large maps, the players are so dispersed on the map, doing their own thing, it almost feels like it defeats the purpose of a MMOG. For this reason, the Ozkansas map when three countries actually have some bases on the Furball island, things are great! But when on country overruns the Furball island, it is like blowing up an object on some base and not much more. There seems to be an optimal concentration of players, bases, etc. for this game to be enjoyable.
In relation to other arenas, the way I see this game and the like (eg. AirWarrior as it was) is that the Main Area is the life of this game. Whatever we do in the other arenas are an extention of what we do in the MA. The other arenas just gives an added control to some parameters.
I am hoping that "Fighter Town" would provide some basis for the optimal concentration as mentioned before.
Just my two cents.
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I don't think dedicating an area to seperate furballers is the answer.
After coming back from a long layoff, it seems to me that the maps are waayyy too big. When 90% of the "playing field" goes unused there is no point in having all of those bases. The population gets too spread out and a good scrap can be hard to find.
Make a map with 5 fields for each country. Enable the fields/CV's to take a lot more damage. This will allow for a few key things.
Mainly the concentration of pilots into a smaller area. Big furballs, larger bomber formations, and enabling even the casual player to have an understanding on where the next strategic objective is located. There will have to be sustained coordinated attacks to bring down a field. Taking down a field will be much more of an accomplishment.
I think in the end, a more target rich environment is what is really being asked. The right balance lies some where between a phone booth and a Texas sized map. I think we need to tighten up the real estate a bit.
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Yep that I agree with. in the MA that would work.
as for CT shake that up too for those who like to play on larger terrains