Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: DREDIOCK on March 09, 2005, 06:59:51 PM
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Trying to do construction projects yourself unless you have actually WORKED in the trades for a while.
STOP watching Hometime, This old house, Home again, Trading spaces, etc etc etc.
No matter how easy these people make these things look From Painting to plumbing to wiring to sheetrocking. Its not as easy as they make it look and 95% of you are totally enept at doing even the simplest of these things, Spackling a nail hole
So STOP. PLEASE STOP!
Be honest with your wives for once and admit there are things you not only dont want to do, but cant.
And Just hire a professional.
In the end you will save yourself Time. Money and aggrivation.
But STOP thinking you can "do it yourself"
Trust me, you cant. At least not right.
And of the remaining 5% just remember.
you can do anything we can do. It will just take you alot longer and wont look as good when your done.
Oh and when you do finally give up and call us to fix your mess stop trying to tell us "the last contractor" did it.
Your only kiodding yourselves
We can tell homeowners work.
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I hate building contractors. Nine times out of ten, if I don't watch them like a hawk, they cut corners or do shoddy work.
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Had to get a guy in to clean up some dry wall I tried to mud. I was honest though.
Its harder then it looks.
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Yes I've learned this lesson the hard way a few times.
This being my first "home" (and I'm ashamed to admit it) but thinking I've worked with quickcrete before I figured I could take a few bags and fill in some "cement in an area that is usually nothing but mud next to my patio. (it's really not like pooring a slab.
Yes me being ignorant in the ways of pooring figured 4 $2 bags and a 5 gallon bucket with a few smoothing tools could do the job no problem.
Let's just say I've fixed it up since then AND it has a outdoor mat over it BUT after having a new back patio put it in does look rather shotty.
This was howerver, a nescesity at the time because I was broke and the dogs would go roll around in the mud there every time I let them out.
I've done a few other projects around the house (mostly landscaping) that look decent....and a few others that I should have called for help on. :cool:
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It's a lose-lose situation to be a homeowner. :)
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LOL i used to work for a guy who specialized in finishing basements.............. everything from the walls insulation, wiring, partial plumbing, drop cielings, doors, windows (when needed) but everything else that Jewish carpenter hired(contracted) some one else to do. But even what little he did know 1/2 was jury rigged!!!! not cause we wanted to do it that way but he wanted us too.
Guys name was Jerry Shapiro (in West Bloomfield Michigan) ya we did some very nice stuff but behing the sceens..............you know where its going.....
best part is we would only work from 7AM till Noon every day!!(he would sweat his butt off at all times even in freezing cold weather but he never worked hard, that why he had us.....
BUT i dont care who the builder is they all cut corners and dont always do it right!! specially cause thry all use contractors
IF AND ONLY IF YOU KNOW HOW TOO THEN DO IT! dont think a self help book from time/life will help you complete the job!
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Originally posted by Sandman
It's a lose-lose situation to be a homeowner. :)
Technically I rent....for now.....but it is still applicable. If Mait. were to see that I royally screwd somthing up trying to fix it myself I'd definatly get charged for it.
They wont even let us turn on our swamp coolers in the spring.
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When I want something done right, I do it myself.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
When I want something done right, I do it myself.
Great idea IF and only If you know how to do what you want done!
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True that.
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Then your not hiring the right contractors.
Probably hiring the one willing to do the job the cheapest. Which is probably one of the most common mistakes people make when hiring someone
"Good work isnt cheap and cheap work usually isnt good"
Ya get what you pay for
good rule of thumb when hiring an unknown is throw out the highest and the lowest bids and take one of the ones in the middle.
The high ones are probably ripping you off. the low ones will probably be cutting corners and doing shoddy work to make up for the price
Also get references or hire somebody referred to you by someone you know and not from the contractor.
Almost all my work I get through referrals alone.
Works out better for everyone that way
DONT go by references provided by the contractor.
Think about it. Would you give the phonenumber to someone of someone that is going to say you do any less then great work?
What I do if a potential customer wants references form me is I take out my list of current or very recent customers and let the homeowner choose who they want to call
Most of the contractors I know do their level best to do a great job. But I have known a couple that I wouldn't trust with a set of Lincoln logs. they tended to be the cheapest pricewise.
One guy I knew byt he last name of Boyko we used to joke about and call him "Boyko destruction company" Cause no job he ever did came out right.
I remember I stopped to talk to him on one trim job he was on and he had a guy working with him and up on a ladder Taking measurements around a window for trim and calling them down to Boyko who was making the cuts. At one point the guy called down "22 and a little bit"
Boyko called back "A little bit what?"
the guys response " a little bit shorter then the last one"
but I've found those guys to be the exeption and typically only found then the homeowner tries to get the job done on the cheap.
and like I said. you get what you pay for
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Originally posted by Pongo
Had to get a guy in to clean up some dry wall I tried to mud. I was honest though.
Its harder then it looks.
LOL Lemme guess you tried to get it done all in one shot right?
Left Mountains the guy hadta chisle down before he could even start to apply mud to smooth and feather it out. and about 1/2 of what you used ended up on yourself and the floor.
Bet ya earned a new respect for those that tape for a living.
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No need to hire a contractor period on my part.
I save money and can do a better job than most.
I`ve had quite a bit of practice.
I have also seen some homeowner nightmares, but on the other hand I have seen far worse from some contractors.
A friend of ours owns a Bed and Rest. They needed a little help one day last summer with some small stuff. I knew she had recently had some work done from a guy I know who is supposed to be a pro. I had never seen any of his work first hand. When I entered the first area where he had did the work it was everything I could do to keep from laughing out loud. Paneling was crooked, trim had gaps you could run a coing in and the baseboard painting looked like it had been done with a sock. :D
Some of the very worst work I have ever seen has been on new apartments by top name contractors. Some of this work I couldn`t have walked away from, charged for and slept well afterwards if I had done it.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
When I want something done right, I do it myself.
LMAO last guy I heard say that decided to resheetrock his ceiling and managed to screw the sheetrock to the drain for the toilet.
A year before that I saw the same guy stapling cove base to the wall because he didnt know how to make it stick on outside corners
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Originally posted by Jackal1
No need to hire a contractor period on my part.
I save money and can do a better job than most.
I`ve had quite a bit of practice.
I have also seen some homeowner nightmares, but on the other hand I have seen far worse from some contractors.
A friend of ours owns a Bed and Rest. They needed a little help one day last summer with some small stuff. I knew she had recently had some work done from a guy I know who is supposed to be a pro. I had never seen any of his work first hand. When I entered the first area where he had did the work it was everything I could do to keep from laughing out loud. Paneling was crooked, trim had gaps you could run a coing in and the baseboard painting looked like it had been done with a sock. :D
Some of the very worst work I have ever seen has been on new apartments by top name contractors. Some of this work I couldn`t have walked away from, charged for and slept well afterwards if I had done it.
LOL his name wasnt Boyko was it?
Another job he did was instaling a sink in a new countertop. Well he cut the hole wrong and there was a 1/4" gap on each othe the corners.
I laughed at him and said "your f&*%ed now"
He said "daaa Dont worry about it. I'll put some caulk in it and will be just fine"
Homowner didnt think so. Dont know what they ever did to resolve it.
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When I was younger I worked in many trades. So it's simpler for me to remodel my kitchen, put in a new bathroom, rebuild the roof on the back porch, install new hotwater heaters, run wiring and plumbing, all those things I did in the trades. But you don't make alot of money, so now I work for a Bank.
But what gets my goat is I may start hiring a professional helper instead of my O'l lady if she gives me one more bellybutton chewing because I didn't say please or ask her real nice to pass me the hammer.
Or instead of just supporting the end of the peice of wood I'm sawing, shes guiding the wood for me under the skillsaw right over my fingers from here better vantage point 6 feet away. Then when I yell at her she gets pissed because I yelled. No matter that I nearly lost my fingers.
Then there's the arguments over how much fun I'm having being the carpenter getting to be creative and doing the design and doing the real building while she's stuck fetching, holding, carrying, being TOLD to hand me something and the cleanup. And then the pissing match responce when I ask her if she knows how to do any of the parts that make up a full remodeling job in our kitchen. Because I care about her I'm supposed to support her while she learns to do them with $5k of new cabinets, a few thousands in trim and other materials.
I let her do the floor plan for the cabinets and order them. She has an art degree from North Eastern U and beleives she has a great sense of design. She didn't tell me she readjusted the floor plan at the store to try and make the sink line up with a window. This was behind my back after I spent an hour showing her why it wouldn't. You know that experience gained by actually having worked in the trades.
Four months later when I'm installing the cabinets I discover I have a 9 inch gap where I had worked out the floor plan not to have one. It took me 7 days to remanufacture the base cabinets to fit my original layout and the O'l lady now goes "wow until I actually saw them in place it looked like I could make the sink line up with the window.:rolleyes: Honey I guess you were right after all."
Oh and I let her use the nail gun while I was holding up bead board paneling. She pulls the trigger and goes wow this fun. Suddenly she picks up speed, pow,pow,pow,pow,pow and places it on my hand, and 30 seconds later its all my fault for yelling at her..................Or when she got mad I wasen't letting her do the demolition on the back proch roof with me. I had her hauling the debree to the truck..cleenup....so I hand her the wreking bar and hammer.....she drops a rafter on my head....and it was all my falt because I yelled at her when I could see straight again.
Anything else my O'l lady rocks the world. I just can't take it being all my fault anymore, so I think I'll hire a contractor helper next time....:D
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High Horse, meet Dred. Dred meet High Horse.
Wondered if ya'll had been properly introduced...
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Home improvement ain't that hard if you take your time and can follow instructions. My best friend has been slowly re-doing his house from top to bottom, as time allows, and it looks pretty damned good. Hardwood floors refinished, basement is getting remodelled, with new walls / wiring / some plumbing / drywall / flooring, etc. It looks pretty damned good so far, and a hell of a lot cheaper than having a contractor come in an do it.
Sure, there are some people who could **** up at driving a nail into a 2X4, but they generally know who they are. Sometimes their cheapness just gets the better of them. Besides, when someone does screw something up, don't you end up with more money in your pocket for the time it takes to get them back to square one?
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I know my limitations..
New water heater.. no problem.
New sink and fixtures... no problem.
Electrical repairs.. so far.. no problem.
build a brick wall... no way in hell I'm gonna even try.
trim the 50' palm tree in front... pros only... with insurance!
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LMAO@bustr. I have to get out the windex for the monitor again.
Made my day. I can relate. :D
I read it to The Beast.....errr I mean my loving wife. She said "that sounds familiar". lol
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Eh, it's fun. But dear lord it takes FOREVER.
I'm totally anal retentive though...
And I can totally see three "interesting" mistakes (or, points of learning as I like to think of them lol).
Anyhow, I asked my Barber the other day: "Say, do you think I need a haircut"?
-Sik
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Electrical repairs.. so far.. no problem.
Lol, that's where I draw the line!
I'll **** up anything that might "look like ****" but when it comes to "burn the house down"... not so much :p
-Sik
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LOL bustr. been there and know the feeling.
and isnt it always amazing how their great ideas usually turn into your headaches?
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Originally posted by Lizard3
High Horse, meet Dred. Dred meet High Horse.
Wondered if ya'll had been properly introduced...
LMAO no. Its called experience.
Its called running into 1 wall to many that looks more like waves on a stormy ocean then it does a straight smooth wall.
Or dealing with patched holes that look like someone applied spackle with a high pressure fire hose.
Or wiring that was wired, backwards.
Or trying to install sheetrock where the wiring was run over the outside of the studs instead of through them eventhough the holes were already drilled for wires. And then running into the same thing on a garage ceiling were everything that is supposed to be installed AFTER the ceiling was sheetrocked was done before and done wrong at that.
Or people who decided to use crown molding for their chair rail.
Or running into plumbing that looks like something out of a Rube Goldberg cartoon.
Or Wallpaper that was hung over unsized walls
Its called running into that sort of thing over and over and over and over again and finally one time too many.
and thus the reason for this thread
Maybe I am on a high horse.
But its kinda hard not to feel superior when I keep running into so much that is inferior.
There is no substitute for hands on experiance and no amount of "how to" books or watching Bob Villa on TV will make up for it
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Dred, you would have a stroke if you saw my "family room"
It's one of the funniest things I've ever seen, and it makes me sad that I own it.
We think that it used to be a Garage, but someone, other than yourself, turned it into a standard room. There are a few spots on the ceiling that look like it has eczema... I'm not sure what was there, or what they used to patch it with but man it's just wrong. The trim looks like it was cut by one-eyed beavers, and each wall has at least one spot where it looks like a roofing nail has been painted over. I don't know what that's about.
There is a bathroom attached. We affectionately refer to it as the "spider bathroom" The thing is, well.. they didn't finish the wall that seperates the bathroom from the main room. I'm not sure if there was some kind of reason for this, but between the top of the wall, and the celing (with some eczema!) there's about 6 inches of air. It's AWESOME if you want everyone to hear you piss.
When we moved in, there as this nasty carpet that was laid down. It didn't run the entire length of the room though. On the far side of the room, there was about one foot where there was no carpet, and instead there was pealing-up linoleum roll. When we pulled up the Carpet, it seemed to have been stapled down with an MG-151/staple- total random spray pattern.
So, when I think about this room, I can totally understand why you've posted this. It's probably the same way I feel about people who write their own wills with the aid of some "write your own will" software.
-Sik
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Originally posted by SOB
Home improvement ain't that hard if you take your time and can follow instructions. My best friend has been slowly re-doing his house from top to bottom, as time allows, and it looks pretty damned good. Hardwood floors refinished, basement is getting remodelled, with new walls / wiring / some plumbing / drywall / flooring, etc. It looks pretty damned good so far, and a hell of a lot cheaper than having a contractor come in an do it.
Sure, there are some people who could **** up at driving a nail into a 2X4, but they generally know who they are. Sometimes their cheapness just gets the better of them. Besides, when someone does screw something up, don't you end up with more money in your pocket for the time it takes to get them back to square one?
Yes and no. the Effort/reward ratio isnt the same as it would be if you just did it from the start.
Plus on some jobs you get the added aggravation of having to get rid of the stuff you had to tear out.
Also there are cases like one I had recently where the homeowner just wanted me to make due with what was there and try to make the best of it. Which in turn leads to a completed job that doesn't leave the kind of quality work I am accustomed to doing?
During the busy months I'll even turn down such jobs for any price. May be his house but its my reputation and livelihood.
In the slow winter months like now sometimes you have to make due with what you can get and bite the bullet. But still out of self pride you try to make it look as good as humanly possible which in turn leads to more time you initially didn't plan on so your not making the per hour/day money you normally would.
This added effort can often impress the homeowner and lead to more work by way of referral down the road but sometimes it doesn't.
Either way you still end up working more hours for less money.
Yes a Homeowner can do a good job himself if he takes his time and follows instructions. Problem is many start that way most dont finish that way.
After a day or so the job gets old for them and they get bored take the attitude of "screw it. Lets just get it done" And they start taking shortcuts which often leads to a less then professional looking or in some cases functioning or outright dangerous job.
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I dunno man...
Those big things in basements with all the pipes coming out of them scare the bejesious outta me.
If something were to break on them, I'd use the same method I use on the big thing on the floor above the basement that has the 4 circles on top....
Pick up the phone and order in.
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All depends on what it is. Some things I can do. Some things I could do with instructions. Some things I won't even try.
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My wife bought our house before we were married... so I absolve myself of all responsibility. But... I will admit that I tend not to fix things here out of disgust. I am coming around though and will have this place actually looking respectable some time in the next 2 years.
As I go, I find that the do-it-yourselfers that worked on this house for the last 60 years have had one thing in common: they were complete idiots.
Oven exhausts: When you decide to remove an oven exhaust, you must think this through. The average man would remove the piping and patch up the holes with plywood and then shingles or fiberglass (ours is on a 5 degree slope... so it's fiberglass). The rocket scientist that lived here before us had a better solution. Instead of removing the pipe and plugging the holes, you could just cut the pipe off about 1 foot above the roof line and then bash the sides of the pipe in until you partially closed the hole off about 6 inches above the roofline. Since you still have a hole in the top of the pipe that's only partially covered, you'd need to put a sheet of fiberglass over it... a single sheet... to cover a pipe that's sticking up. As you realize that a flat sheet of fiberglass is not going to sit flat on the roof, you should make certain that the inevitable gap is pointing up the slop of the roof so that it can catch any water that might be flowing that way.
Electrical outlets: When cutting holes in sheetrock for electrical outlets, you can mark where to cut by placing the outlet face plate on the sheetrock and then outlining around it.
Moulding: Why use one board when multiple boards will do the job. A 48" 1x6 is much too expensive when 3 scrap pieces will do. Also, there is no need to actually cut a 45 degree angle on BOTH boards when making a 90. You can cut the 45 in one and a 90 in the other and then fill the gap with putty.
Sheetrock: Highly over rated. Press board works much better in most situations.
Studs: You can actually nail 18 3' 2x4s together to make one 4 1/2" thick stud.
Tongue and groove: Not just for subflooring anymore! Placing tongue and groove beneath the covering of the walls (be it sheetrock or the aforementioned press board) makes them stronger. Placing it on both sides of the wall makes it even doubly stronger.
Firestops: So THATS what those boards between the studs were supposed to be for.
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Originally posted by Sikboy
Dred, you would have a stroke if you saw my "family room"
So, when I think about this room, I can totally understand why you've posted this. It's probably the same way I feel about people who write their own wills with the aid of some "write your own will" software.
-Sik
Exactly.
Gee you didnt happen to just have it fixed and painted did you?
sounds like a job I just finished.
Naa that guy is a car dealer.
That "eczema" you see is either a really bad spackle job, Dirt and dust that has been painted over without cleaning first or wallpaper paste that wasnt fully cleaned off and primed.
If its scaling in areas with bits of paint flaking off its probably wallpaper paste.
Any time you remove wallpaper and plan on painting the walls you have to remove all or as much of the remaining paste as humany possible and prime with a fast dry oil based primer before you paint.
reason being if you dont. and you dont get ALL the paste off. about a month later the paste will decide to lift and will look like scales on the wall.
With the oil based primer if its going to scale at all it usually does within the first 24 hours but typically it wont unles you left alot of paste there.
BTW for anyone removing wallpaper. Dont waste your money on BIN Paper remover.
If it wont come off with hot water it wont come off with Bin either. and if it comes off easy with BIN it will come off just as easy with hot water.
You can however try adding some vinegar to the water. the acidity in the vinegar will help loosen the paste.
Also Good old fabric softener works too though Im not quite sure why. and your wife will love how soft it makes your hands. And you wont smell like a salad
If even after using these tricks it doesnt come off easy. Plan on being there for a while.
Oh and count on making a mess, there is no neat way to do it that is also not VERY time consuming
If its gritty its probably dirt that was painted over or the roller had dirt in it and left it on the walls/ceiling.
Or could be the result of a bad plaster/spackling job that was never smoothed out or sanded right.
the rest of the stuff is obvious what they did wrong.
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Originally posted by Mini D
Electrical outlets: When cutting holes in sheetrock for electrical outlets, you can mark where to cut by placing the outlet face plate on the sheetrock and then outlining around it.
lol!
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After performing a self appendectomy with my Leatherman multi tool an a bottle of scotch while I was climbing Mt. Logan last winter, drywall doesn't seem that difficult.
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I did construction in my early years, but I would still think twice about doing anything myself. Then again, I have seen the work of "professionals", and holy jebus, it looked like they took the short bus to work.
My dad's house, which was 're'-built before he bought it, was the most amazing showcase of mentally handi-incapable contractors and carpenters evar! Prelude - We had owned the house several years before, it was literally a shanty. Prerequisite to demolishing the old house and building a new one, it needs to be built on one cornerstone of the old structure. No problem, they atleast got that right.
He first moves in, I am at the time 18 so I am naturally with him starting college, and I like the location and don't give the house a thorough look down. A week later, I realise some glaring problems. Floor trim does not match up properly in many areas, tiling that has been cut around the fireplace (I'll explain if anyone wants to know what type of fireplace I mean) does not meet the walls. There are two areas of the drywall that are bent at the ends to attach to the studs...? The bathroom attached to my bedroom has towel racks. They have been placed there by someone with a severe list. The first one was placed relatively level, the second rack was, well, he had put away a few to say the least. A few years later, my dad learns the shower was made of 2x4s with tile and grout covering it. Needless to say, he had to have a local remodelor/contractor come in and redo it (this guy is amazing!). Prior to the bathroom incident the nails in the ceiling holding the drywall into the ceiling began popping out. Not just the boob type of bulges, but literally popping out and falling to the floor. The plumbing was also improperly done in certain areas causing rot, and five electrical outlets had been miswired.
So basically what I'm getting at is, don't trust anyone. If you can't do it yourself, find someone that can, but be SURE the person has a good reputation.
-SW
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This April will be one year in my first home. Its been a fun year.
I've learned...
1) Homes detect when you have extra money
2) Furnaces only go BOOM on Sunday nights when the labor rate is double. (Mine backfired last Sunday, 2 hours of labor and replaced both the injector nozzle and control box)
3) Those nice people next door with a teenage son will turn on you in a heartbeat. That cute dog now barks up a storm anytime he sees his shadow. The kid will attempt to drive 60mph to the stop sign that is 40 feet away. And he feels that we should all enjoy his "Yo yo" music. His busted up car has 90 horsepower while his subwoofers have 200.
4) No matter how hard you try, the paperboy just doesnt understand the science of opening the door, inserting newspaper then closing door.
5) My trashmen will take away nuclear waste, spent bazooka shells, hand grenades and even a neatly disassembled MiG-29. They wont, however, take one trashbag full of lawn clippings.
6) The mail comes everyday at 10, except when you are expecting a check.
I could go on....but there's a few :)
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*snicker*
This is a great thread. I have met Dred, the ninja of the trades.
Sorry to burst your bubble Dred, but there are those out there who can get it done just like you ninja masters.
Years of knowledge and experience are invaluable I agree but it doesn't take much to call upon a ninja, get good advice, then follow instructions.
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Originally posted by LePaul
No matter how hard you try, the paperboy just doesnt understand the science of opening the door, inserting newspaper then closing door.
Ya can't blame the kid for that. Before moving into your neck of the woods, he worked a few routes in Dixon.
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Me: Well, Sir, you certainly CAN do it yourself, but I don't recommend it.
He: You want too much, have the product delivered, I'll do it myself.
He's wife, 2 days later: He is on the couch with a sprained back, can you come finish the job?
Me: Sure, but I have to redo what he did, so now it is +25%
Her: No problem.
That is the rule, not the exception.
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Remodelled the kitchen last summer, new floors on main floor of house, tore out pantry - rebuilt wall from old remodel. Looks great, less than half of what I woulda had to pay a contractor.
Downside was it took more time (maybe) because I didn't know some of the tricks of the trade. All ya gotta do is ask someone...and sometimes you even have to redo something. Still costs much less and quality is the same...plus now you KNOW how it was built/installed etc.
Wasn't the first time I ever picked up a hammer, though I really think most anyone with some common sense and a desire to learn can do most home improvement jobs. There are alot of resources for finding the info....you just have to have the common sense to do the research.
I don't think any contractors will go out of business due to massive numbers of people doing it themselves however. Plenty of folks will pay good money to someone to do anything involving manual labor or the amount of patience it takes to make that sort of work look nice. I made a good second job out of fencing and deck contracts for a long time before figuring out landscaping was more fun (not much to do in winter) and that's about the easiest construction project one could do.
Zaphod
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My house is 100 years old. I hate opening any part of it because the Harry Home Owner clan has worked on it from ancestor HHO, great grand dad HHO, grand dad HHO, HHO senior, HHO and I think HHO in diapers.
If I open a wall, I have to open it from end to end every time so I can bring the 6 generations of code violations up to the 21st century. Like the exaust vent that was cut through a 2x4 and no support header and blocking installed to take the load.
Or the first time I went into the crawl space to change the length on a gas pipe riser to the stove. Yes I turned off the gas. When I reached up and grabbed the pipe, the preassure junction slipped its last thread and dropped 6 ft of pipe on my face and chest. When I had it inspected for purcasing, the inspector did have a badddd case of gas. So I thought thats what was coming up from the floor.
There have been some fun things. Found a drug bottle in a wall from the 20's. Over the counter liquid cocain to sooth teething children, achs and pains, and help with those regulare female concerns. Pulled up the kitchen flooring and found a checker board linoleum floor. Pulled it up and found sheets of newspaper were laid down to cover the cracks in the 1 inch sub flooring strips. Did any of you know that in 1933 the price of a car in San Francisco was $500? Or that Dagwood Bumstead originally was kinda of portly? I pulled a weird shelving structure out of broom closet that was made of 1943 ammo crates with 1943 NRA victory stickers all over it.
I still have to remodel the bathroom. The toilet is a 1934 vintage crapper. Some chick in the 60's decided to panel the walls with 1 inch toung and groove from a sauna kit. Collects dust and is a pain in the arse to cleen. She decided to mount them finished side to the wall.
Some guy in the 80's repaired motorcycles all over the house and liked to stick a knife in the floor. Or maybe he dropped his engines alot. I think in the 70's a bunch of college students rented the house. If you ever lived in a dorm at college you can tell by all the poorly patched nail and thumb tack holes in all of the rooms they were used as bed rooms by college students.
Well its not all bad. At least when I work on it, I fix all 6 generations of mistakes once and for all.
Oh here's a tip. Get one of those $29.95 circuit tracers from like Home Depot. It's the one where you plug a tone generator into your outlet, and then you go to the panel with the receiver and it picks up which circuits to turn off. Harry Home Owner does a nasty cheap trick with wiring. He pulls from anywhere thats easy to access when he runs a new outlet or switch. You may think you just turned off the wall outlets to the bedroom. Problem for me was that Harry wanted another outlet in the bedroom. I trusted the lables on the switch box. My standing lamp was off when I came back into the room. Gee Harry had pulled a line from the basement because he could see it. I was upgrading the receptical because Harry used the cheapest one he could pull out of the dumpster. At least after the sparks cleared and I unwelded my screw driver from my hand the O'l lady thought better of saying it was my fault that my bad words were offending her.......:)
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I think personal experience from my dad who is a contractor and a few semesters in technical education really paid off even I know how to spackle and i'm only 15.
Oh BTW did anyone explain to those screw ups how to hold a hammer or level? Or even measure properly.....:rofl
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Originally posted by Steve
*snicker*
This is a great thread. I have met Dred, the ninja of the trades.
Sorry to burst your bubble Dred, but there are those out there who can get it done just like you ninja masters.
Years of knowledge and experience are invaluable I agree but it doesn't take much to call upon a ninja, get good advice, then follow instructions.
When have we met?
Not saying there arent. Just that most cant.
Im not claiming to be a ninja master. I know alot of different things and there is alot I dont know.
What I know how to do right I do. what I am unsure of or am just plain not good at I get someone who does and is.
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Originally posted by Sikboy
It's probably the same way I feel about people who write their own wills with the aid of some "write your own will" software.
Oh wills aren't all that hard really... Until the old lady wants her watch to go to this one, her silverware to that one, her old shoes to the one that didn't call... Etc.
Thank God most people go by the "%" plan. Then its basically a form letter. Depending on the software, I'd hope most people could handle it.
..... Sorry for the hijack - I've been readin this entire thread and finally found something I could relate to :)
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What I know how to do right I do.
Freakin ninja
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Originaly posted by Jackal1: When I want something done right, I do it myself.
I hear you're a perfectionist especially when it comes to your sexlife.
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
I put on my robe and my wizard hat
I pry apart the battleship that is your ass.
Dingleberries hang from your unmanicured ass-hair. Hell, something like that, I wish I still had the link to that thing. I still laugh every time I think about it.
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Oh, and as for the topic, there is no substitute for experience and talent. Snap-on, pre-fit, glue-on, do-it-yer-god-damned-self products are no comparison for true craftmanship and a job well done.
If you have the eye to inspect your own custom work, you have the eye to see the difference in the product of products, and the product of a talented craftsman who takes pride in what he does.
It is possible to tackle any project yourself and be successfull. The more you do the more you learn.
Common sense, the more you do, the more you learn. That guy that's been doing it for 20 years probably can't do a better job than you.
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MMm so shoddy building work is not only a UK problem.
For once I agree with Jackal1. Better to do it yourself as long as you know what you are doing.
From experience most jobs that go wrong are when I've used the wrong tools, tried to rush it, penny pinch or just not taken the time to find out the correct way to do it.
If you must use a builder, plumber etc, try to use one you know or is recommended by someone you trust.
Pick em out the yellow pages and experience has taught me you are asking for it!
Same goes for fixing vehicles too. Follow the manual use good tools take your time and most things can be done if you have the space and equipment.
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
I hear you're a perfectionist especially when it comes to your sexlife.
You do finger painting during nap time too?
Grow up. If you can`t take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
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My wife and I have done virtually everything that there is to do to a house ourselves. We do some research, read the instructions, and do the job. The biggest difference between our work and that of “professionals” is that we take the time and put forth the effort to do it right. IMHO, “professionals” generally suck.
eskimo
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Originally posted by Sandman
I hate building contractors. Nine times out of ten, if I don't watch them like a hawk, they cut corners or do shoddy work.
do you hire the lowest bidder?
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Originally posted by Steve
Freakin ninja
Which are you? Mark or his little buddy?
The ultimate power (http://www.realultimatepower.net/)
Gotta read it through to the end.:lol
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Originally posted by Lizking
Me: Well, Sir, you certainly CAN do it yourself, but I don't recommend it.
He: You want too much, have the product delivered, I'll do it myself.
He's wife, 2 days later: He is on the couch with a sprained back, can you come finish the job?
Me: Sure, but I have to redo what he did, so now it is +25%
Her: No problem.
That is the rule, not the exception.
how very true :rofl
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Originally posted by storch
do you hire the lowest bidder?
No sir... I usually shoot for somewhere in the middle.
Unfortunately, we're fairly remote here so contracting/construction market isn't as competitive as heavier populated areas.
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Right Jackal1. I'm taking silence as admittance.
But if you like it that way, it's your business. :eek:
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Siaf are you a girl or just have feminine tendancies?
Or just a child perhaps?
I didn`t believe it was possible for you to make a bigger fool of yourself than you allready have. I was wrong.
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Quit whining Jackal1. Every post you've made so far has been a question.
You really do have some sort of a defect.
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A friend of mine had a problem with one of his appliances. His wife insisted that he call a professional. Reluctantly he did. Then he left his video camera on the counter and pointed at the appliance and hit "record".
He presented the footage to the company that was called in to do the work after they set him a bill for about $400.
The workman came into the room, opened the appliance, messed about with it for about 5 minutes, tested it and left.
The funny part was the total change in attitude of the company. One second they were adamently arguing that their man was on that job for the entire morning. The next they were sheepishly apologising and adjusting his bill.
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Hmmmmm...Siaf noticed you finaly got enough sense to change the avatar. Skeeert? :D
Proud to see I got under your skin so bad.
You feminine type should really toughen up a bit.
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So you actually want me to keep the avatar? What does that tell about your ..hmm.. orientation?
Well, anyone can tell that you're anal so I guess it goes with the territory. :rolleyes:
You feminine type should really toughen up a bit.
You keep repeating that feminine type mantra. Apart from the obvious so far, it seems that you're suffering from a serious identity crisis.
As noted earlier, you have a lot of suppressed anger towards other men. The kind that is often found with people that can't come out of the closet even if they need to.
So far you've revealed the following:
You like to play with yourself.
You're agressive and avoid social situations.
You're homophobic.
I bet you were a shy child as you still avoid answering any direct questions.
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Do you hold your breath and turn purple when that big ole meany Jackal starts pickin on ya? :D
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when that big ole meany Jackal starts pickin on ya
Forgot to add insecure and delusional.
:rofl
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Well I wasn`t gonna mention your insecurities and such, but it is a common trait among you ladies......errrrr I mean folks going through the gender identity crisis.
Go ahead and get it out if you wish.
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common trait among you ladies
And you keep repeating yourself.
That about sums it up. Now.. I have no problem with your identity whatever little perverted things you prefer.
But please do the rest of us the favour of not spewing that insecure babble on us. So what if you're gay? Nobody really cares. Trust me.
Confront yourself and you'll live happier. :aok
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I realize how you must wish that there were more gays on this board, but wishing doesn`t do it. You just need to seek out more feminine types such as yourself and try not to get to upset with us straight guys.
Tell ya what. If you are really are that much of a fan of mine that you see fit to devote all your time to me, then if you will just ask I will send you a welcome package from my fanclub.
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You just need to seek out more feminine types such as yourself and try not to get to upset with us straight guys.
You continuously reassure yourself of the role you've put yourself into as being part of the 'straight guys' who hate the 'feminine guys.'
Now the fact whether you or I are really gay or not has no meaning in this discussion really (well, except for you that you're obviously homophobic.)
But it won't make your feeling any better no matter how much you attack people on this board. All that negativity is a reflection of your insecurity and the repeating of the mantra shows that you're not comfortable with the role you've taken.
It's sad really because you must try to bully others on this board and make ridiculous innuendo just to have a little mental padding on your ego, as if anyone would care of how big and tough you picture yourself mentally on this UBB.
You can whine all you want about girly boys and all, people will still see through you. Just for you to know.
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Squeal piggy. You doin a great job.
Whine me a river sweet cheeks. :D
Attack people????? Geeez Louise you have got an imagination. You don`t have to be "attacked" sweet cheeks, you are self abusive. lol
Gotta love it.
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There there.. It'll pass soon. :rolleyes:
sweet cheeks.
Sorry but I'm not into that.
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You two should get a room and unleash your unbridled love into each other.
-SW
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Well you do have a point there wulfe.
By replying to him I'm only adding fuel to his manic behaviour.
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Siaf
Let`s look at your "attacking" fantasy here. I mean you get so squeaky and whiny, kickin and screaming in text and it does you absolutely no good except to reveal just how childish you are. Gets to the point where you can just feel the tantrum. Instead of going your own way, you then come up with your little avatar redesign using my ID in it. (Which was a hoot btw). You then either get scared of getting your hand spanked or have allready gotten spanked, and take it down. Then you come right back and start your sniveling and whining directed at me. Now you tell me who is "attacking" who here.
If you wish to keep with the whining and squealing directed at me, please do so as I find it total fricken hilarious.
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Wasn't this thread about DIY foulups and hiring builders etc?
Just checking?
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Originally posted by Skydancer
Wasn't this thread about DIY foulups and hiring builders etc?
Just checking?
No kidding, this thread went amtrak in a hurry lol.
-Sik
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Originally posted by Sikboy
No kidding, this thread went amtrak in a hurry lol.
-Sik
That's because us BBS'ers have the attention span of coked up monkies.
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(http://www.humorbg.com/Karikaturi/animals/smile-monkey.jpg)
MONKEY!
-SW
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Originally posted by Sandman
No sir... I usually shoot for somewhere in the middle.
Unfortunately, we're fairly remote here so contracting/construction market isn't as competitive as heavier populated areas.
yes that can be a problem. here in Miami the competition is fierce and there are many talented players in all of the construction related trades. I'm surprised though. usually tradesmen (well the people I know and associate with) take great pride in their workmanship. speaking for myself I can't tolerate a customer being less than 110% satisfied. there are people who you can never please but years of experience and asking many questions during the sales cycle help me to avoid these folks. we rely exclusively on word of mouth for future business so customer satisfaction is a good business practice in my case.
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Originally posted by Sandman
No sir... I usually shoot for somewhere in the middle.
Unfortunately, we're fairly remote here so contracting/construction market isn't as competitive as heavier populated areas.
Are most of the Balsam street shops still closed on Sundays? handsomehunk. And they wondered why Wal-Mart was destroying them lol.
-Sik
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After working for several years hanging framing, sheetrock and painting. There are a few things I will not touch in my house. Plumbing and Electrical work! Those are best left to the guys who charge you an arm and a leg because they have the insurance that you need should your house flood or burn up.
We are getting ready to redo our kitchen and want to take down a wall that separates two rooms and make a huge kitchen/great room in the house. When I do that I will bring in some professionals other than my Dad's company and will have my friend recommend a good architect and engineer to evaluate the structural considerations. Also planning on putting a bathroom in the basement and have a plumbing contractor lined up now to do all the big time work.
I don't like using my friends for big stuff like this but would rather have them recommend someone to me. That way if something does go wrong I don't loose a friend over it and if it does go right I have met another person who does quality work.
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Originally posted by Reschke
After working for several years hanging framing, sheetrock and painting. There are a few things I will not touch in my house. Plumbing and Electrical work! Those are best left to the guys who charge you an arm and a leg because they have the insurance that you need should your house flood or burn up.
We are getting ready to redo our kitchen and want to take down a wall that separates two rooms and make a huge kitchen/great room in the house. When I do that I will bring in some professionals other than my Dad's company and will have my friend recommend a good architect and engineer to evaluate the structural considerations. Also planning on putting a bathroom in the basement and have a plumbing contractor lined up now to do all the big time work.
I don't like using my friends for big stuff like this but would rather have them recommend someone to me. That way if something does go wrong I don't loose a friend over it and if it does go right I have met another person who does quality work.
a very wise way to do that, I will further add that if a friend or family member needs work done I will do it for free if I'm not too busy or otherwise I will recommend them to a trusted colleague.
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Originally posted by boxboy28
LOL but everything else that Jewish carpenter [/B]
What the heck does his religion have to do with it?
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
LOL Lemme guess you tried to get it done all in one shot right?
Left Mountains the guy hadta chisle down before he could even start to apply mud to smooth and feather it out. and about 1/2 of what you used ended up on yourself and the floor.
Bet ya earned a new respect for those that tape for a living.
yup...yup...ummmm....yup.
Had to take down all the beeding on the doors, had to sweep up dust for a week. He said that it was all dust from my mud and was the price of trying myself.
He gave me a good price and did a great job though.
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Originally posted by Sikboy
Are most of the Balsam street shops still closed on Sundays? handsomehunk. And they wondered why Wal-Mart was destroying them lol.
-Sik
Wal-Mart was just the beginning. There's a Home Depot now on China Lake and Las Flores.
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Originally posted by storch
a very wise way to do that, I will further add that if a friend or family member needs work done I will do it for free if I'm not too busy or otherwise I will recommend them to a trusted colleague.
Agreed. I dont like working for Friends or family.
I'll tell them I'll help them with it for free if they want me to.
Most common term I use is. "I'll work with you but not for you."
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Originally posted by Sandman
Wal-Mart was just the beginning. There's a Home Depot now on China Lake and Las Flores.
Wow, that's hard to imagine. Did True Value survive?
-Sik
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Originally posted by Sikboy
Wow, that's hard to imagine. Did True Value survive?
-Sik
They're dying. Another hardware store moved in on Norma a few years ago, H&E. They're dead already.
The only one that seems to be doing well, is the Ace Hardware out in Inyokern... but they have a niche.
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If they are dying, maybe they don't really offer a "true value".
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Originally posted by NUKE
If they are dying, maybe they don't really offer a "true value".
Unfortunately, the local hardware stores like True Value and Ace knew what pieces and parts the contractors used during construction. They all carried the right pieces for replacement or repair. You know... fixtures and the like. Home Depot has yet to figure stuff like that out.
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Originally posted by NUKE
If they are dying, maybe they don't really offer a "true value".
That's true. Hopefully soon we can get rid of all these pesky stores and shop at a single Univermag!
Sigh... I understand the economic realities of it all, and I myself shop at lowes so who am I to complain? It's just a bit sad to see that dinky hometown of mine lose what charm it once had.
At least they still blow **** up out there. :p
-Sik
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Originally posted by Sandman
Unfortunately, the local hardware stores like True Value and Ace knew what pieces and parts the contractors used during construction. They all carried the right pieces for replacement or repair. You know... fixtures and the like. Home Depot has yet to figure stuff like that out.
I agree. Ace hardware stores are usually small, but they have the best selection of screws, nuts and bolts and things that Home Depot doesn't bother with.
On the other hand, I only go to Ace when I need small things like that.....otherwise I'm at Home Depot and Lowes.
I can see how they could go under in a small town trying to compete with the bigger stores, but where I live they co-exist very well.