Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Schaden on March 10, 2005, 01:12:40 PM
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I'd like to have the 180 degree rear view capability removed and instead have the ability to look over the shoulder to the right and to the left, currently I have my rear view set up as if I was looking over my rt shoulder, would be nice if one could set it up for the left shoulder as well.
I think Kweassa had a thread with pics on this some time ago.
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use your keypad 1 & 3 views, adj your head position and save. does what you asked for.
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He means universally.
It might be tedious for someone not used to it, but it actually adds a lot to the game. The 'panic factor' with that kind of view setting is absolutely gorgeous.
I'll try to dig up the old thread.
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The old thread (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=121891&highlight=look+over+shoulder+IL2) ..
AH 6-view
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/232_1088805627_ahstyle.jpg)
IL2 6-view
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/232_1088805665_il2style.jpg)
Suggested: Real Life 6-views
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/232_1088805705_realstyle.jpg)
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you'd be surprised (or not) exactly how much you can see behind yourself, and how fast you can do it.
AH views are just fine.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
AH 6-view
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/232_1088805627_ahstyle.jpg)
if you do what i do (have move head side to side) mapped to your stick, you dont have that blind spot
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you'd be surprised (or not) exactly how much you can see behind yourself, and how fast you can do it. AH views are just fine.
Ofcourse.
Except things get a little different when your right hand is at glued to the stick and your left hand is glued to the throttle, during the time your plane is pulling varying degrees of Gs. Why do you think they had to stamp a big "No Hand Hold" warning to the gunsight?
If you can turn your head to your right while your right hand stuck near your crotch, and still get a glimpse of your 7 and 8 o'c areas, then you're something akin to a circus contortionist.
Turning one's head to the left and looking over the left shoulder(while right hand is at the stick) is a bit easier than above, but still restricting.
Yeah, AH 6view is fine.
But it can be better.
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I know about that JB73. You can just push the head position way back near the head-rest and the blindspot would disappear... but that's not the point.
The point is the extremeness of head positions people use when checking 6 O'c.
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My AH rear views actually look like your "real-life" views. Look back and to side and slide head over. Not sure what the problem is here.
I really like the current view system (which is an improvement to the very good view system from AW), and would be quite concerned if they changed it.
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exactly. these aren't jets or space shuttles where you're strapped down fairly tightly.
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If youve ever pulled a few G's.....youd better be strapped in fairly tightly! BTW...the space shuttle typically only pulls 3-4 G's on liftoff.....cant say the same for the P-51;)
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that's the thing... you'd be surprised (me, too, maybe) how many of the good turners are *not* in some other view than forward when pulling "hard" g's.
let's go sample Levi's films.
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My AH rear views actually look like your "real-life" views. Look back and to side and slide head over. Not sure what the problem is here.
AH has a variety of different planes modelled with each new version it has seen up to date, and the restrictions given to head positions differ greatly from plane to plane.
For instance, the really old models(Typhoon Mk.Ib, Fw190A-5, Fw190A-8.. etc etc..) have very lenient head movements. On the other hand, some of the newer models(such as P-47D-11 with its razorback) have more realistic limitations. However, in both cases, the head movement is fairly lenient enough to give out a very wide 6-view that is sufficient enough to cover the entire "rear-half" of the plane at a single glance.
The point Schaden and I are making, is that in real life, we'd get as much rear view as we would in AH, but it would take two head movements(looking over left shoulder and right shoulder) to get that much info, not one.
Look at the head position in my first picture. It might not look that strange, but if you look close enough, you will realize that to get that kind of 6-view, you'd have to be sitting in the cockpit backwards with the back of your head resting on the front windshield. With that kind of head position, the pilot can see the entire rear quarter of the plane at a single glance.
That 'single glance' is what bothers me and Schaden.
Like Shane(and Pyro, in that thread) said, normal people have no problems in twisting the torso and neck to see directly behind. However, to get the view we have in Aces High currently, one needs to let go of the stick and throttle and twist his torso to an uncomfortable level - and one would still not be able to see all of his rear area.
In other words, like Shane or Pyro said, it is possible to see directly behind, but that's about it. If you look over your left shoulder, you would be able to see the 8, 7, 6 oc areas and a small part of the 5 oc area is caught in peripheral. Most of the 5 oc area, and the entire 4 oc area, is totally obscured. Vice versa when looking over your right shoulder. If someone can see all of the 8, 7, 6, 5, 4 oc area at a single glance by looking back, then that guy is has a spinal column that twists almost 180 degrees!
Therefore, in real life, the pilot that is consciously trying to scan behind him for evasives would be "HOTAS". In this condition, there's no way this guy can get a panoramic 6 view as we have in AH. He would have to check his left rear half, and right rear half respectively.
..
Now, the 'IL-2 approach' was clearly a step backwards. They made it impossible to look directly behind. No customizable head positions at all. You'd only have enough rear view to check 8, 7 and 5, 4 oc.. and the 6 oc area is totally inaccesible unless you twist and turn your plane around. This is plain wrong, and it's not what Schaden or I want.
What we do want, is having to check left and right - so we'd get about 50% of our current AH 6-view at each glance. Looking left rear and right rear respectively, we would get the whole 100% of our current views.
So, what we actually want is;
1) harsher restrictions in head position customization when the hat-key is flicked to look 6 oc
2) two programmable 6 views that come out with different hat key inputs;
- when hat key is moved to , it would give out "50% of 6 oc view, by looking over left shoulder"
- when hat key is moved to , it would give out "the other 50% of 6 oc view, by looking over right shoulder"
Now, like I mentioned, some people might find this annoying and tedious the first time they try it. I felt exactly the same when first playing IL-2. However, after a while, I realized that having to constantly check 'both sides of your aircraft' was very immersive.
So, in a summary, the IL-2 view system in regards to visible angles sucks. But the fact that you have to look both sides to get the whole picture, is really cool.. and if we have this in AH, it would improve immersion levels to one step further.
More uncomfortable than what we have now? Yeah, it is. But it's still more fun!
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What Kweassa said...
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Didn't Know I was a contonsionist.
I have turned around and been able to see both ends of the horizontal stab over the same sholder. In multiple different planes while under g's.
HiTech
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Originally posted by hitech
Didn't Know I was a contonsionist.
I have turned around and been able to see both ends of the horizontal stab over the same sholder. In multiple different planes while under g's.
HiTech
See there!
Ya learn something new every day huh? LMAO
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(http://www.thecolumnists.com/stanley/stanley36art1.jpg)
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Didn't Know I was a contonsionist.
I have turned around and been able to see both ends of the horizontal stab over the same sholder. In multiple different planes while under g's.
Yeah HT, but were you able to see further than that?
If somebody approaches you from your 4~5 oc, would you be able to see him by looking over your *left* shoulder?
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easily.
maybe you need to exercise more than your typing fingers. :aok
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LOL Shane no kidding his number of posts are amazing enough, but if you add the length of them wow that's some serious exercise heheheh.
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So you're saying you can sit on a chair, left and right HOTAS, and you twist your body and look over your left shoulder, and your vision of focus reaches to 4 and 5 oc angles?
I assume that your not talking about a 'glimpse' in the peripheral vision, but a fully focused view where you can make out object detail clearly(as we can do so in AH 6views).
That's pretty amazing.
A typical human neck pivots about 90 degrees to left and right without any torso/spinal movement. A typical human spine has about 60 degrees spinal twist max(pure spinal), with additional 45 degrees coming out from the pelvis and hips, thus a "torso twist" is about 100 degrees maximum for a human.
If you can look over your left shoulder and see the 4 and 5 oc clearly, your torso twist is close to 140~150 degrees. Sitting on chair usually halves the twist angle in the hips, so it would mean your pure spinal twist is close to 100~120 degrees. A normal person would break his back if he does something like that.
You are indeed, one of a kind!
[edit] Some spinal facts:
The golfer Tiger Woods, twists his body about 100 degrees with his feet planted solid when in a backswing.
His hips twist about 30 degrees, and his spine twists about 70 degrees, which is remarkable flexibility. Normal amateuer golfers needs about 45 degrees of hip twist and 60 degrees of spinal twist to achieve that kind of swing. [/edit]
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Tried some experiments :D
I had a friend help me by writing something on a note and standing at my 4, 5 oc area while I sat on a chair with my waist loosely strapped.
I *could* make out what he wrote on the note, by looking over my left shoulder, but to do that my head had to go through the 'imaginary' cockpit glass on my left side, let go of the 'stick', and feet went off the 'rudder pedal' because I had to twist my hips too.
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Research shows that after a year playing AH, the average player possesses this ability to check 6.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/150_1110687575_avgah6view.jpg)
:rofl
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Kweassa, what's 60 + 45 + 90?
I have a bad back and I can get nearly 90 degrees of rotation at the shoulder (granted, i cramp horribly after just a few seconds of that). However, with a rotation at the shoulders of nearly 90, and rotation above the shoulders of 90, and a field of view of what, 130+ degrees?, why shouldn't I be able to look behind me in a game?
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just some quick dumb math
im out of shape and overweight (suprise LOL)
i seem to be able to make about 55 degrees+ on my chair rotating just my spine. that is keeping my feet plantes, and hands on the HOTAS.
it is tough and i can't hold it long, but i can make that.
my head goes right about exactly 90.
that is a total of 145 degrees of spin in one place, not in a panic or causing undue stress to myself. (i imagine one can do suprising things when you life depends on it)
let us make a light assumption that my field of view i can see 70 degrees to 1 side.
now each virtual clock hand is 30 degrees. 5 oclock would be 210 degrees.
210
-90 (head turn)
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120
-55 (spine turn)
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65
less than the 70 i can see.
the 70 deg eye turn is light though. sit in your chair, and without moving your shoulders (keep them perfectly square) i can see what is directly behind me which would lead me to assume i can see more that 90 to one side.
if i can see 180 without turning my spine, how far can i go from there?
Kweassa i think you are attempting to get a "direct line of sight" where that is not needed to see a black object against a blue sky (generalism's here)
i will add, looking at a steep upwards angle was much harder than a flat look behind me.