Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Engine on March 11, 2005, 08:58:59 AM
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It's been time for me to upgrade from my trusty G3 ti500. It's served me well, but can't keep up.
I've been on a budget, so originally thought about an FX5200. However, decided to spend extra for a card with decent performance so I can wait a while before upgrading again.
Anyway, the 5700 appears to be a big leap from the 5200/5500. Newegg has some good deals on 5700s for about $120 (about $140 for the 256MB version), though they're out of stock. Pricewatch, however, has a link to a site selling a 256MB 5700 for only $109. It's not an LE, as the clock speeds match up with other 5700s at 425 MHz, with a mem clock of 550/500 MHz.
I'm probably going to order this card today, and was wondering if anyone knew why this card would be so cheap. It doesn't say it's refurbished or anything, and I don't see any hidden catches. Am I blind? :)
Here's the link:
http://www.arsenalpc.com/Details.asp?ItemID=2454
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Screw it, I just ordered it. :)
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Noo it'll be a boost from your 500. Get an Ultra if you possibly can. It's only cheap because it is an old card now.
Don't bother getting a 256 Mb of RAM. It won't make any difference. Spend the money on an Ultra, its a much faster chip.
A Radeon 9600XT has similar performance.
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Oh well.Enjoy!
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with the 6600 and the 6800's out, those FX cards are out matched and out classed big time.
mind you it shoudl be a decent upgrade from what you have... just be very careful of what driver version you are using.
IIRC skuzzy said dont use anything over 61.77 or something for the FX series cards.
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Just bought one...no matter what I do...and I've done it all it locks up AH and Mohaa. Gonna upgrade it. See new thread to come, might help us both out.
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Ah well, thanks for the responses. Do you guys know what the differences would be between the 6xxx series and the 5700? I looked at the 6200 as an alternative card for around $100, but saw it had a lower core clock and figured my framerates wouldn't be much better. Think I saw a review site that showed the 5700 outpacing it with framerates, too. I could be wrong on that, my memory stinks.
FOGOLD, this 256MB card costs the same (actually cheaper than) other 5700 128MB cards. I even called em up to ask why this is so cheap, and had it verified that it's not an LE, nor is it refurbished.
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I believe it was Skuzzy...sorry if I'm wrong Skuzz, who said the 256 5700s had very cheap ram on them and were actually out performed by the 128s. Unfornuately I found this out the day after mine arrived. Stuff happens. Anyway mines goin back engine and I just posted asking Skuzzy and all for advice on some other cards. Stay tuned. az
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Originally posted by Engine
Ah well, thanks for the responses. Do you guys know what the differences would be between the 6xxx series and the 5700?
read this:
http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040414/index.html
here's a breakdown of ALOT of cards:
http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20041004/vga_charts-04.html
looks like the 5700 is right in the middle.
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If its too cheap it probabbly aint that good. Espeically if its 256mb. In anycase 5700 is mid to low range card, i'd pass.
Heres what skuzzy said:
Now, both companies have there share of oops! products. NVidia's FX5xxx line was/is the worst product they put on the market. Many things wrong in that family will never be corrected due to bad design choices. However, they recovered with the FX6xxx family nicely.
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since engine ordered it, no need to slam it LOL
it will be an upgrade from what he has, and probably will work for AH nicely (FR's 30-60 usually)
he will be able to use larger textures than he has now probably, and see more eye candy too.
it's not top-of-the-line as of what's out for all video cards, but sometimes we are on a budget.
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He can still return it if he can make a better deal..
JB73 your avatard is driving me crazy. I'm constantly thinking why is this girl doing this motion while laughing and clapping.
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I've got 24 hours to cancel my order... Crap.
Arrgh. Err. Bah.
Time to do some research. Any more information would be greatly appreciated. :)
Edit: Specifically, what are the problems with the 5xxx line?
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Sorry engine, didnt mean to slam your card purchase, i just wanted to pass you some info, so you can make a better decision.
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I don't mind. I think the highest I can go is about $150, so I want to get the best framerate for the money. :)
I'm assuming it's a bad idea to buy refurbished cards off newegg?
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
He can still return it if he can make a better deal..
JB73 your avatard is driving me crazy. I'm constantly thinking why is this girl doing this motion while laughing and clapping.
LOL i know as much as you do.
nopoop posted it in a thread and i liberated it to my avatard! hehehe
engine, as far as the 5xxx series, do a search here for 5700 5790 whatever numbers, there are a bunch of threads about them.
basically IIRC they just dont pack a huge punch that say a ti4800 does over an MX card.
there are reports of a Ti4800 getting better FR than the FX series in some cases.
now thats when they came out... they were alot of money for nt alot of product.
in the link i posted the 5700 still benchmarks above the ATI 9800, so it is not a terrible card. it just isn't the best out there.
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Well I slammed it because I just got a brand new one that won't function properly. If you've got $150.00 to spend Engine it seems you can buy a much better card than the 5700...I know I'm going to.
!
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If I play my hand right, it'll be my girlfriend's $150 :)
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Isn't that avatard from Freddy got fingered?
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The Nvidia FX series cards take a hit in DX 9 games because they have issues with texture rendering vs the ATI cards setup. This is less true than it used to be with the right drivers, but there are certain inherent hardware limitations the FX cards cant overcome. The biggest slowdown of a 5700 vs a 5900 is the memory bus width. The FX 5900 cards have a 256 bit memory bus, whereas all the other FX5xxx cards have a 128 bit bus. Think of it as bandwidth. Two ways to make the bandwidth increase are to increase the bus size, and increase the memory speed. Technically, you can push memory fast enough to pass up slower memory with a wider bus. In reality its not likely.
As far as the Nvidia vs ATI diff, heres the breakdown. Its in the pipes.
If you look at the graphics card charts at Toms Hardware, it shows a Pipeline configuration. 4x1, 4x2, 8x1, 16x1, etc. This controls Pixel Shading. If you have a 4x2 setup, you have 4 pipelines and 2 texturing units. This means you can draw 4 pixels per clock, and perform 2 texture accesses per clock.
The 5900 cards show at Toms as 8x1. But really they are either 4x2 or 4x1. They are unable to single texture at the higher 8 "pipelines" like the 9800 and 9700 cards can. So when it needs to single texture, it drops to 4x1 mode which is half what the ATI cards can do. When the app calls for multitexturing, the 5900 will run just as well as the 9800 (the 9800 runs at 8x1 or 4x2, depending on need). Dont ask me why it is this way, I wish it weren't.
That said, I use a 5900 and I get excellent frame rates most of the time. I bought a card that was labelled as a 5900SE (low end for this card) which turned out to be an OEM 5900XT (mid range for this card). I then overclocked it very easily to 5900U speeds(top range for this card). Considering it has the wider memory bus too, I'm pretty happy with it.
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Just so you know. Most of my notes on this come from a post on the forums at AnandTech, but I've lost my link to it. I'll search my browser at home and see if I can find the link. It was a very good writeup that explained alot about how video cards do what they do.
And as for getting cards that dont work, thats the fault of the manufacturer, not the brand of video card. Dont blame Nvdia or ATI if you bought a bad card, blame the company that built it. Or the UPS guy that was having a bad day and took it out on your package. Or the postal guy who stopped at the shooting range to squeeze off a few rounds and used your package for target practice.
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Ah, I see. Thanks for the help. At this point I can't find anything above a 5700 within my price range, so I guess I'll let the order stand and upgrade again once funds become available. :)
Unless the 6600 is better. Didn't see it on Tom's scoring roundup and was too busy today to go looking for it. Hell. My card is ordered, just gonna live with it. Thanks again all, I appreciate the help.
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Originally posted by Engine
Unless the 6600 is better.
MUCHO better!
http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040812/geforce_6600-04.html
compare these to the milti-card link i made
http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040907/geforce_6600-03.html#3dmark_2003
it benchmarks about double the 5700, AND has none of the DX problems mentioned.
if a 6600 is out there same price GET IT!
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Before I'd buy a 6600 I'd get a low end 6800. Twice the pipes, not even half the problems. 6600 and 6200 still have alot of teething issues that arent totally worked out yet. Otherwise, live with the 5700 for now, and save up for a 6800U. The 5700 will fly on a Athlon 64 system. You probably wont get all the "eye candy" and you can probably max out the 5700's capabilities but it will get you by until you can buy something better down the road.
When you get your card, go here for tuning tips
http://3dgpu.com/tweaking.php
It will help you get the most out of it.
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Great news! A situation with my girlfriend was rectified (my sleeping at an ex-girlfriend's house apparently was ap roblem for her... what a whacko), and she'll be paying for a 6600 GT. With luck it will arrive on Tuesday, ordered an XFX model off Newegg.
SoA, I did check out some 9800s but the price was above $200 on all I saw, iirc, and that's out of her league. Hell, from the performance indicated on the 6600 GT, I think it'll last me a good long while.
Thanks for kicking me til I woke up, boys. :)
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Originally posted by Engine
I've got 24 hours to cancel my order... Crap.
Arrgh. Err. Bah.
Time to do some research. Any more information would be greatly appreciated. :)
Edit: Specifically, what are the problems with the 5xxx line?
Keep it.
I picked one of these up for $129... the 256M. Some of the 5700 series, 'LE's I believe" are underclocked and have a gpu that can actually run much faster... mine came clocked at 250MHZ, but the gpu is actually the same as the ultra that runs at 400MHZ. I used "coolbits" and cranked it from 250 to 420 without any issues. The RAM was clocked at 400 and runs stable at 520.
It performs much better than the 128M 9600 I had, which is actually a "9550"
For the $$, you wont be disappointed.
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Thanks for the advice, but I've ordered a card which according to benchmarks, will outperform any 5xxx series card by a large margin. Best of all, my girlfriend got is as a gift for me. If she's paying, might as well go splurge. ;)
I did notice the 5xxx LE models had a much lower clockrate, but wasn't aware they could be overclocked so drastically. That's pretty interesting, I wonder what nvidia thinks of that. Do they think the vast majority of users don't know how to use coolbits?