Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Halo on March 12, 2005, 11:09:40 AM
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One of the most gut-wrenching documentaries I've ever seen. Poor kids all deformed. Caretakers trying to comfort them. Docs working some miracles. Huge areas evacuated. Radiation readings still incredible.
Ends 3/13 via HBO On Demand, HBO Specials, Documentaries, Chernobyl Heart. Oscar-winning focus on lingering impact of Chernobyl nuclear power plant accident, which ironically was triggered by a safety exercise.
Sorry for not more notice, but just wandered on to it last night.
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Check this webpage (http://www.kiddofspeed.com/)
She rides a ZX-11 through the area. Lots of pictures, stories, explanations.
There are many places that not structurally safe, or have collected pockets of intense radiation. There are places where no one dares to go, not even scientists with protective gear. One such place is the Red Wood forest and another is the Ghost Town Cemetary. The relatives of the people who are buried there can not visit, because in addition to people, much of the radioctive graphite nuclear core is buried there. It is one of the most toxic places on earth.
(http://www.kiddofspeed.com/367img/image12.3.jpg)
When the town siren went off on Sunday morning, mass panic ensued. With the police evacuting along with everyone else, banks and even jewelry stores went relatively unnoticed, but this shop was emptied out in a matter of an hour. The police began shooting looters in May, when radioactive TV sets began to appear in the pawn shops of Kiev.
(http://www.kiddofspeed.com/367img/image13.3.jpg)
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Poor kids all deformed
This is definetly another popular-propaganda horror-story.
Sorry for saying this, people probably worked hard to invent all this horrors and balme Chernobyl catastrophe... :rolleyes:
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You're denying it happened?
Good grief man, wake up. I know you adore your Soviet flag and fold is neatly every day, but get a grip
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No, he said it happened("Chernobyl catastrophe"), just that not every thing that happened after it was because of it.
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I can't see Boroda saying it didn't happen; looks like his reply was for sentence "Poor kids all deformed" which isn't true.
Bit selective reading from LePaul? Surprise... ;)
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Originally posted by Lizking
No, he said it happened("Chernobyl catastrophe"), just that not every thing that happened after it was because of it.
Exactly.
"Deformed babies" have nothing to do with Chernobyl. Alcoholism is responsible for 1000 times more "deformed babies" then radiation.
I am very sceptic about the above-mentioned "documentary" because the department I worked in, here, in Biochemical Physics Institute, RAS, studied Chernobyl consequences from medical point of view. No "deformed babies" so far.
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Originally posted by LePaul
but get a grip
Sorry, but the main difference in discussing some stuff between me and you is that I know what I am speaking about. Sorry again. I know it's hard to accept that an "asian barbarian on his shaggy mount" knows more then you in some fields...
BTW, what a good example of media brainwashing... Radio-phobia is a pure product of media. You can show "deformed babies" and siamese twins and say that it's a result of an exposure to radiation from wrist-watch glowing in the dark, and people will start wasting their watches to special "radiation-proof" containers... Damn, a great idea for crooks! ;)
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You can not be serious?
On Saturday, April 26, 1986, the world experienced its worst civil radiological accident ever when unauthorized testing of procedures on reactor number four at the Soviet Union's Chernobyl nuclear power station caused it to explode and burn, emitting large quantities of radioactive material. In the days following the accident, the Soviets released sparse data on the severity of the accident and almost no data on the extent of radioactive fallout in Europe and the rest of the world.
The White House designated EPA as the leader in coordinating the U.S. response to this global emergency. EPA began monitoring and assessing radioactivity in the United States, based in part on daily samples from its Environmental Radiation Ambient Monitoring System (ERAMS).
The system first detected radiation from the accident at ground level on the West Coast one week after the accident.
The radioactivity concentrations were well below levels requiring protective action. In addition, EPA dispatched response personnel to Europe to monitor and assess levels of radioactivity in the Black Sea and Kiev Reservoir under a cooperative agreement with the Soviets.
Because Soviet-released information was limited and unsubstantiated, Americans remained concerned about the possibility of adverse health effects in the United States. EPA established a group, chaired by the Department of Health and Human Services, to provide advice on preventing contamination of the food supply and protecting public health. EPA also established an Information Center to assemble, coordinate, and disseminate information to the public. Through the Information Center, EPA organized daily press conferences to keep the public up-to-date and to address their concerns.
http://www.epa.gov/radiation/docs/readytorespond/ready2.htm
Sorry but I trust the EPA a ton more than I turst your so called "knowledge".
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You guys got it all wrong.
Can't you see Boroda is an expert on the good and healthy russian radiation? It's the total opposite of the bad nazi radiation which kills everyone.
You know, all those rescue people they were being fed those same lies about the dangers of radiation and those fools tried to put out the fires at the factory.
They got so intense that they drunk themselves to death soon after the incident. Suites them right, poor victims of capitalist propaganda.
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Boroda,
I tend to believe you are fairly intelligant in many areas and I do believe you know alot about what happened in Chernobyl, but a whole nuclear reactor was melted to the ground. The roof was blown off and people all around the city could actually feel the radiation. So I find it very difficult to believe that no after effects ever happened or were ever detected.
Like was stated before, this was not a govt. that was willing to dole out lots of info on the accident when it happened so its easy to see how things could have been lost. I do agree that drinking causes many more problems than this incident would have caused in new born children but I have to believe there were incidents.
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The American Capatalist PIGS snuck in and caused the reactor to melt down, it was not the fault of the great U.S.S.R. To their credit, they actually cured everyone who were exposed to the radiation in record time, and a major tragedy was avoided. Unfortunately, the cure to radiation exposure was lost because it was stored in the Berlin wall, which was torn down by who? Yep, the filthy American Capatalist PIGS!
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:rofl :rofl This is a strangly funny thread!
Though not so funny for Radiation damaged Kids and Cancer riddled adults I'll warrent!
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perhaps someday i'll tell ya all about the relationship these planes have with Chernobyl.
(http://aeroweb.brooklyn.cuny.edu/database/aircraft/showimage.php?id=345)
Air samples dont lie very well ... nor do decomissioned planes because of To many rads. ok think ive said enough an this subject.
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The Cherynobyl nuclear reactor accident happened in April 1986 and this documentary was filmed about 16 years later. The sick and deformed babies and children shown in the documentary are presented as solely or primarily continuing consequences of radiation from Chernobyl.
The film crew donned protective gear for some sequences and their radiation monitors showed about 13,000 (I forget whether rads or that newer measurement), WAY above anything safe.
As I recall, safe radiation levels are around 10 or less.
I wish you all had access to viewing this documentary. I realize many of you don't, but if you ever have a chance to see it anywhere, I think you should.
Like most events, many specific numbers can be debated, but the overall adverse effect of Chernobyl seems quite bleak and acknowledged by most people.
I take nothing for granted, including this documentary, and I reject biased presentations like Michael Moore's. But Chernobyl Heart seems pretty even-handed and deserves a lot of credit for showing the continuing problems from the Chernobyl accident.
If there are errors or biased reporting in Chernobyl Heart, please enlighten me in detail.
I've always been a supporter of peaceful nuclear power and still am ... but the consequences of reactor accidents are appalling.
Interesting info elsewhere on web charts shows how nuclearized many nations are, e.g., France leading with about 70% of its power from nuclear reactors.
And accidents like Chernobyl know no borders. Chernobyl is in northern Ukraine but the winds carried most of the radioactivity north to Belarus and beyond.
Among the points to check in making any housing move nowadays are where is the nearest nuclear reactor and what are the prevailing winds.
Those of you who have HBO On Demand, go now to your television and view Chernobyl Hearts before it ends tomorrow (March 13). Take a fresh box of tissue.
And post what you think about it.
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Originally posted by indy007
Check this webpage (http://www.kiddofspeed.com/)
She rides a ZX-11 through the area. Lots of pictures, stories, explanations.
(http://www.kiddofspeed.com/367img/image12.3.jpg)
(http://www.kiddofspeed.com/367img/image13.3.jpg)
Actually, that woman's story and her website are nothing more than lies. I can't remember where, but if you search a little deeper, you will find that the real people who are in charge of that area are very upset at the blatant lies that she has written on her site. IIRC they admit that she came into the restricted zone on one of the tours that anyone can pay to go on (which is where she got some of her pictures), but that the 'rides' she talks about in that area are nothing more than make-believe stories.
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Her ride was discredited among the three Chernobyl threads last April which had nothing about the Chernobyl Hearts documentary.
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Hmmmm. Well. Haven't seen any games yet about Sept. 11. Or Easter. Guess a few subjects have yet to be cybercized into games.
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Originally posted by RTStuka
Boroda,
I tend to believe you are fairly intelligant in many areas and I do believe you know alot about what happened in Chernobyl, but a whole nuclear reactor was melted to the ground. The roof was blown off and people all around the city could actually feel the radiation. So I find it very difficult to believe that no after effects ever happened or were ever detected.
Like was stated before, this was not a govt. that was willing to dole out lots of info on the accident when it happened so its easy to see how things could have been lost. I do agree that drinking causes many more problems than this incident would have caused in new born children but I have to believe there were incidents.
Well, the only people killed in the accident by radiation were less then 20 firemen, who were literally extinguishing burning heat-emitting elements from blown-up reactor with their boots :(
Even they didn't "feel" the radiation.
Information on medical consequencs of the catastrophe isn't classified. Our department studied huge load of data collected there, and it is watched closely still. Sorry, no "deformed babies". It's up to you - if you want to believe in this crap.
"Small exposures to radiation" is a very ineresting and sometimes paradoxical issue. Small portions of ionising radiation may be sometimes good for your health... The problem is too complicated for popular science and propaganda TV programms.
Chernobyl remains the most well-studied nuclear accident, the ammount of data collected is uncomparable to Japanese bombing sites or other accisents. The consequences are much worse then from possible nuclear bombings, even with such relatively dirty and ineffective devices like bombs dropped on Japan. It's quite cynical, but I have to say that Chernobyl became the best source on radiation influence on human, animal and plant biology...
I absolutely love people like Siaf making comments on such issues. Ignorant brainwashed crowd at it's best. I advise this people to keep watching TV and believe that it never lies. "As seen on Ophrah and National TV"... :aok
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Ignorant? Brainwashed?
Boy, you fingered yourself to perfection.
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Small portions of ionising radiation may be sometimes good for your health...
See? I told that one was coming. Russian radiation is good for you.
Dumbarses are just foolish for protecting from radiation or for posing restrictions for eating vegetables and berries covered in cesium dust.
Heck they gave a national advisory to wash all vegetables with soap before eating all the way to Greece after the incident. And the wind was blowing the other way.
Borodas stories don't amaze me that much though. Not that long ago they found nuclear waste buried in the park in St.Petersburg. It was discovered after the people living nearby started getting mysteriously ill.
And before you discredit this as propaganda, the news was at st.petersburg news read to me by my friends russian wife.
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I hereby dub thee Boroda: -
Bolshevik Bob
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LOL, you're my hero Boroda. Don't ever change!
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Originally posted by Boroda
Well, the only people killed in the accident by radiation were less then 20 firemen, who were literally extinguishing burning heat-emitting elements from blown-up reactor with their boots :(
Even they didn't "feel" the radiation.
Information on medical consequencs of the catastrophe isn't classified. Our department studied huge load of data collected there, and it is watched closely still. Sorry, no "deformed babies". It's up to you - if you want to believe in this crap.
"Small exposures to radiation" is a very ineresting and sometimes paradoxical issue. Small portions of ionising radiation may be sometimes good for your health... The problem is too complicated for popular science and propaganda TV programms.
Chernobyl remains the most well-studied nuclear accident, the ammount of data collected is uncomparable to Japanese bombing sites or other accisents. The consequences are much worse then from possible nuclear bombings, even with such relatively dirty and ineffective devices like bombs dropped on Japan. It's quite cynical, but I have to say that Chernobyl became the best source on radiation influence on human, animal and plant biology...
I absolutely love people like Siaf making comments on such issues. Ignorant brainwashed crowd at it's best. I advise this people to keep watching TV and believe that it never lies. "As seen on Ophrah and National TV"... :aok
Pavel, Pavel
you mean 20 of them died on place?
how many die in hospitals? you know i have friend who work in Kijev hospital thos days
as i remember even USSR gov claim more casulties
did you forget how big imput give chernobyl for boosting cancer and all other throat sicknesses?
If it was nothing big, why i was forced to drink lugolla liquid?
why muschroms still shine in dark near charnobyl?
why som plants get big boost in groving around chernobyl area?
why poland install sensors to discover all kinde of radioactiv activities on borders? and take a special look on food?
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Originally posted by Boroda
Bolshevik radiation is good for you!
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Deformed babies" have nothing to do with Chernobyl. Alcoholism is responsible for 1000 times more "deformed babies" then radiation.
Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. Those babies truely do look like monsters.
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
See? I told that one was coming. Russian radiation is good for you.
Dumbarses are just foolish for protecting from radiation or for posing restrictions for eating vegetables and berries covered in cesium dust.
Heck they gave a national advisory to wash all vegetables with soap before eating all the way to Greece after the incident. And the wind was blowing the other way.
Borodas stories don't amaze me that much though. Not that long ago they found nuclear waste buried in the park in St.Petersburg. It was discovered after the people living nearby started getting mysteriously ill.
And before you discredit this as propaganda, the news was at st.petersburg news read to me by my friends russian wife.
Now he starts putting words into my mouth...
I was speaking about inoising radiation, he keeps hallucinating about cesium and vegetables. Obvious lack of basic school education.
Again: there were no "deformed babies" after Chernobyl.
Cancer and other things were a problem.
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Originally posted by ramzey
Pavel, Pavel
you mean 20 of them died on place?
how many die in hospitals? you know i have friend who work in Kijev hospital thos days
as i remember even USSR gov claim more casulties
Sorry, typed "20" instead of "30". AFAIR there was one or two deaths "in place", most of this brave people died in hospitals in about one month :(
Originally posted by ramzey
did you forget how big imput give chernobyl for boosting cancer and all other throat sicknesses?
If it was nothing big, why i was forced to drink lugolla liquid?
why muschroms still shine in dark near charnobyl?
why som plants get big boost in groving around chernobyl area?
why poland install sensors to discover all kinde of radioactiv activities on borders? and take a special look on food?
Cancer is a problem. Some other diseases are. But showing "deformed babies" in a programm about Chernobyl is an example of media radio-phobia lies.
What did that sensors show? Huge increase of background radiation? Two times, from 10 to 20 millirentgens per hour?... :rolleyes: This digits are usually used to scare public.
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Regardless of which sides propaganda you choose to believe...I don't think anyone on this board can say conclusively one way or another. However Boroda, radiation has been linked to birth defects and deformities, therefore one can assume that when an irresponsible government operated nuclear reactors unsafely which resulted in a major accident..one can assume that the higher radiation in the area will cause deformities and defects.
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Uhm, Boroda:
"Radio-phobia is a pure product of media. "
Chernobyl was a quite powerful accident, and it'll be a ghost area for what, hundreds of years to come?
So there is a reason to be a tad touchy around radiation, - not much taking back there if things go bad.
As for deformed babies, there were plenty after Hiroshima, so I rather think there would be some.
And cancer, oh, lots of dead.
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Originally posted by Boroda
Sorry, but the main difference in discussing some stuff between me and you is that I know what I am speaking about. Sorry again. I know it's hard to accept that an "asian barbarian on his shaggy mount" knows more then you in some fields...
BTW, what a good example of media brainwashing... Radio-phobia is a pure product of media. You can show "deformed babies" and siamese twins and say that it's a result of an exposure to radiation from wrist-watch glowing in the dark, and people will start wasting their watches to special "radiation-proof" containers... Damn, a great idea for crooks! ;)
Wow, not only are you an "Expert" :rolleyes: on the Subject of Sarin, but now with "Chernobyl"? Let me guess you were presnt when Reactor #4 went, you personally oversaw the evacuation, then whilst in your stupendous glory, built the "now failing" Sarcophogus?
Your right Radium didn't kill a chitload of people that either put the Radium on the watch hands, or people that wore the watches.
You are so full of watermelon that you are now ignored. Bye.
Karaya
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All I know is I couldn't watch the whole thing. Very heart wrenching to see the children like that.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Wow, not only are you an "Expert" :rolleyes: on the Subject of Sarin, but now with "Chernobyl"? Let me guess you were presnt when Reactor #4 went, you personally oversaw the evacuation, then whilst in your stupendous glory, built the "now failing" Sarcophogus?
Your right Radium didn't kill a chitload of people that either put the Radium on the watch hands, or people that wore the watches.
You are so full of watermelon that you are now ignored. Bye.
Karaya
Expert on Sarin? If you didn't have basic civilian defence training - it's your own sexual problem.
Again: I worked in a department here in Biochemical Physics Institute, Russian Academy of Science, that analyzed statistics on medical consequences of Chermobyl. So it goes. Sorry, no "deformed babies".
Here is our institute's webpage: http://ibcp.chph.ras.ru/
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Originally posted by Furball
I hereby dub thee Boroda: -
Bolshevik Bob
I you sir! I'm surprised no one thought of that before!
Too funny!
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BTW, the rest of you DO know that the entire Chernobyl incident was caused the the Amreekan aggresors, don't you?
Yes, indeed. A CIA plot, carried out by secret agents to discredit the world-class safety of the Russian nuclear power program.
It's true!
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Originally posted by Boroda
Expert on Sarin? If you didn't have basic civilian defence training - it's your own sexual problem.
Again: I worked in a department here in Biochemical Physics Institute, Russian Academy of Science, that analyzed statistics on medical consequences of Chermobyl. So it goes. Sorry, no "deformed babies".
Here is our institute's webpage: http://ibcp.chph.ras.ru/
Boroda,
I'm just curious, what do you do at the Biochemical Physics Institute?
Are you a researcher? Scientist? janitor? Maybe you are someone that is "In the Know" with this stuff and I would just like to here how you come to say that you know the "end all truth".
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The institute is created by the Decision of Presidium of the Russian Academy of Science
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Originally posted by emodin
Actually, that woman's story and her website are nothing more than lies. I can't remember where, but if you search a little deeper, you will find that the real people who are in charge of that area are very upset at the blatant lies that she has written on her site. IIRC they admit that she came into the restricted zone on one of the tours that anyone can pay to go on (which is where she got some of her pictures), but that the 'rides' she talks about in that area are nothing more than make-believe stories.
Please post your source for this info. Till then I tend to think the information she has posted with the pictures are credible.
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Originally posted by mosgood
Boroda,
I'm just curious, what do you do at the Biochemical Physics Institute?
Are you a researcher? Scientist? janitor? Maybe you are someone that is "In the Know" with this stuff and I would just like to here how you come to say that you know the "end all truth".
No "end of truth", sorry :) Now I work in an IT department, before our department was created - I worked with people making statistical analysis of Chernobyl data, helping them with computer stuff. Our leader was a "liquidator", spent several months in Chernobyl.
My curriculum vitae is quite funny, but somehow typical for my generation. Studied to be a weapon engineer, had to quit uni and work, ending here in Academy of Science, as a classic "Soviet engineer" :)
It's funny how people like to believe in "deformed babies" and other media horrors... That's my main point here. Media makes stuff that sells good, and in case of a film mentioned in the beginning - they succeeded. :rolleyes:
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It's funny how people like to believe in "deformed babies" and other media horrors... That's my main point here. Media makes stuff that sells good, and in case of a film mentioned in the beginning - they succeeded.
It's even funnyer how your government feeds you lies and misinformation and you take it for granted.
The differences in soviet and western history books didn't come there by mistake.
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
The differences in soviet and western history books didn't come there by mistake.
So you're saying that Western History is any more accurate??
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Mosgood it's more likely that the rest of the world has things right if only the russian version differs. It's just reasoning.
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Cod I hate to stand up for a tool like Boroda :) but he may be right about the deformed babies.
Just google "chernobyl and deformed babies" and you will find alot of information that says the only deformed babies were from pregnant women working on site and that the documentaries of deformed babies was misleading at best.
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Originally posted by mosgood
So you're saying that Western History is any more accurate??
Yes he is, and it is more accurate - much more.
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Every country has its contaminated sites. Maybe not of the scale of this, but theres a few places in NYC I wouldnt want to get a drink at. Even in my podunk town, we have landfills. At times on nights when the air is just right, the methane creeps down into on area, where people live, and you can smell it. Smells like an oilfield.
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Originally posted by Silat
Cod I hate to stand up for a tool like Boroda :) but he may be right about the deformed babies.
Just google "chernobyl and deformed babies" and you will find alot of information that says the only deformed babies were from pregnant women working on site and that the documentaries of deformed babies was misleading at best.
You are joking right?
Through direct exposure from the atmosphere and indirect exposure through the food chain, children in the Chernobyl area received a dose of radiation 40 times above permissible levels. The number of incidences of thyroid cancer is up 3000 per cent and it is estimated that over the next 15-20 years over 40,000 children in Belarus will contract the disease.
In Belarus cancer of the thyroid is so prevalent that the scar left after a thyroid operation is now chillingly referred to as a Belarussian Necklace, thus marking them forever as Chernobyl's victims.
Since the disaster there has also been an increase of 800% in the incidence of cancers in children living near to the reactor plus there has been a dramatic increase in the rate of babies born with substantial physical disabilities. Babies born limbless, deformed and with severe brain damage.
There are so many other radiation related health crises occurring in the region that for the first time in Belarussian history , the death rate is HIGHER, than the birth rate.
Treatment of disease is difficult in Belarus due to the lack of proper medication and equipment. The breakdown of the countries infrastructure, both politically and economically has caused inflation to rise at a rapid rate. Western goods are available in the shops but at prices well beyond the spending limit of the average Belarussian. Even simple medicines like aspirin and antibiotics are only available on the black market and most drugs are virtually non-existent due to their soaring cost. Recent research show that over 90% of children suffer from vitamin deficiency and many die through the lack of proper treatment that can be afforded to them.
In excess of 80,000 children have very little hope in life due to a disaster of someone else's making. Our aim is to relieve this suffering.
http://www.focc.org.uk/children.htm
Guess this one depends on your definition of deformity. But it seems these kids have a way higher than average chance of dying young. To me that is a definite deformity.
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At 1990 in summer I worked in pioneer camp in Moscow region. That summer we took into camp kids from Novozybkov city, near Chernobyl zone. All of them were screened by doctors in Moscow before. So. Nobody of them had symptoms of radiology health problems. Also I talked to their leader. He was about 32-35 years old that time. And he worked in local medical biological laboratory. So all special blood tests came via his hands. He said, that after 1986 till 1990 they found only 4 (four) examples of radiology based cancer. And 3 of them was people who worked on reactor after the blast. How do you think, is it too big count or no?
I understand, that we should stay an "Evil empire" in the yeas of western people. And were did you see an evil empire without tons of bodies and deformed mutants? Western mass-media created this thing shortly after april 1986. And they showed one of these mutants on TV. They said something like: "Look at this kid - the product of exposure and evilness communism wich can not protect it's own citizens"! If you looked TV that time, you must remember it. But only one problem...... The kid was born at december 1985. From alcoholics parents. But I afraid you wasn't interested in that. You needed evil empire.
We can have a very long discuss about Chernobyl. But. If you want to know truth you must go there and ask people who live there. But not your TV.
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I trace all this russophobic horror stories at least to Seven Years War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Years_War) , when every German knew that evil Cossacks eat European shildren for brerakfast and without salt.
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Well goody, now that we've discovered that russian radiation is in no way harmful to anyone, by all means do some more experiments with the reactors. All those fools that for years fought against nuclear power or made research to make it safer.
All useless.. It won't hurt anyone if a reactor blows up. At least if it has 'made in russia' written all over it.
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Well goody, now that we've discovered that russian radiation is in no way harmful to anyone, by all means do some more experiments with the reactors. All those fools that for years fought against nuclear power or made research to make it safer.
All useless.. It won't hurt anyone if a reactor blows up. At least if it has 'made in russia' written all over it.
Let's wait until US of A will prohibit any other "undemocratic" nation to use electricity - it will solve the problem of nuclear power completely.
JFYI: in the 80s over 60% of electricity in France was produced by nuclear power stations. Another fact: first nuclear power station was open in Obninsk, USSR, in 1954. Nuclear power stations in fact produce less radiation and radioactive isotopes then conventional coal power stations.
I get more and more evidence that you live in another world, with different physics, biology, history and mathematics. Listening to you is almost as nice as reading good sci-fi novel about aleiens from a different universe.
Do you have background radiation levels declared with weather forecast? Do you run to the shelter every time it's two times above ordinary level? :rofl
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Nuclear power stations in fact produce less radiation and radioactive isotopes then conventional coal power stations.
Isn't that just what I said? There was no radiation leaked in Chernobyl. The russian magic rays kept it all safely inside.
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Isn't that just what I said? There was no radiation leaked in Chernobyl. The russian magic rays kept it all safely inside.
Check the ammounts of radioactive isotopes released into atmosphere after burning of one ton of coal. Think about it.
Your habit of putting words into my mouth gets annoying. An obvious compensation for lack of education and common sence.
I advise you to light splinters in the evening and avoid electricity - it will probably stop nuclear technology from spreading.
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I'm getting annoying? What are you going to do, attack me and throw me into a gulag? I know it's a century old tradition down there to all nay-sayers.
After all this talk you've revealed your true nature. And then you wonder why people consider you're a part of the evil empire.
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Isn't that just what I said? There was no radiation leaked in Chernobyl. The russian magic rays kept it all safely inside.
Can you make difference between direct exposure and radioactive products in the air? There was no nuclear blast. There was termical blast. The most part of radioactives was in 5 km. circle. I'll write it in russian and ask Boroda to translate it. I don't know english so good to write it myself.
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Can't remember a large area anywhere being evacuated swiftly on long term because of coal radioactivity Boroda.
Bur seriously, how large is that area and when will it be inhabitable again?
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At the risk of being pummeled to death, it's time to clear some of the air here.
1. If you disassociate yourself from all political positions previously or currently embraced or presented by Boroda, he is factually correct. He never said anything so preposterous as there was no radiation leak, or that it is good for anyone. That is blatant misrepresentation or stupidity.
His issue was birth defects.
Widespread congenital birth defects in subsequent generations did not occur, as it did not occur in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. In-vitro exposure did, and does, cause birth defects. The same is true of chemical exposures such as those caused by massive and continured exposure to dioxin as found in Agent Orange and heavy metal exposures such as Mercury and Nickel.
Continued exposure during formative years have also increased the cancer rate dramatically. These are not birth defects, they are exposure effects.
The 1950s Cold War propoganda about extensive, multi-generational, mutational, genetic damage to humans was not true. Just like the propoganda that exposed areas would be barren of life for tens of thousands of years. There is plenty of life in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. And no beastly genetic mutations like in the Hollywood movies.
2. How many people have died from the incident, or will have a shortened life expectancy, will always be questioned and defined differently. I don't know if anyone will really know.
3. Will it ever be cleaned up? The scale of exposure and lack of money to do it will probably yield an answer of, 'No.' It is cheaper to isolate than to clean it up. It is just as true in small scales as large.
You can pound away at his political beliefs, but he is not wrong about birth defects in subsequent generations. Exposure effects abound, though.
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Some of you need to read "The Plutonium Files". It would change your outlook on the "harmlessness of Radiation". The US govt. injected almost 50 people with "harmless radiation". I don't want to spoil to much.
Karaya
PS - You CANNOT compare the WWII bombs with Chernobyl. Two different styles and methods (i.e. WWII it was in it's infancy and Chernobyl it was definately more refined).
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To Rolex - thank you.
Estel told me a great story of a "deformed baby"-mutant, filmed by Western journalists in 1986. An eye-opening story. If he lets me - I'll try to tell it here.
Masherbrum, if you don't see a difference between an atomic bomb and a nuclear reactor meltdown - then you still have many interesting things to learn...
BTW, you can google for "Chinese syndrome" and "Tree-mile island", may be interesting for you.
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Originally posted by Boroda
Exactly.
"Deformed babies" have nothing to do with Chernobyl. Alcoholism is responsible for 1000 times more "deformed babies" then radiation.
I am very sceptic about the above-mentioned "documentary" because the department I worked in, here, in Biochemical Physics Institute, RAS, studied Chernobyl consequences from medical point of view. No "deformed babies" so far.
Here is the deformed babies quote. I believe it says "DEFORMED BABIES" HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH CHERNOBYL.
That is false. As rolex pointed out women who were pregnant did infact have deformed kids.
Here is another quote from him about it...
"Our department studied huge load of data collected there, and it is watched closely still. Sorry, no "deformed babies". It's up to you - if you want to believe in this crap. "
And another....
Again: I worked in a department here in Biochemical Physics Institute, Russian Academy of Science, that analyzed statistics on medical consequences of Chermobyl. So it goes. Sorry, no "deformed babies".
Sorry Rolex but I see nothing in his posts that says "subsequent generations"... Those are your words not his. He is adament about media propaghanda and "No Deformed babies". Which there were even if they were exposure and not later dna mutations.
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Originally posted by Boroda
To Rolex - thank you.
Estel told me a great story of a "deformed baby"-mutant, filmed by Western journalists in 1986. An eye-opening story. If he lets me - I'll try to tell it here.
Yes sure, it's not and it wasn't classified.
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Originally posted by Raider179:
Sorry but I trust the EPA a ton more than I turst your so called "knowledge". [END OF QUOTE]
Hey, Rai,
Are you serious about trusting EPA ?!
I am sure you live too far from New York City.
And who is your friend ?
Is it the twice former NJ governor-turned-sniffing- female-dog of EPA ?
:confused:
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
You guys got it all wrong.
Can't you see Boroda is an expert on the good and healthy russian radiation? It's the total opposite of the bad nazi radiation which kills everyone.
You know, all those rescue people they were being fed those same lies about the dangers of radiation and those fools tried to put out the fires at the factory.
They got so intense that they drunk themselves to death soon after the incident. Suites them right, poor victims of capitalist propaganda.
Siaf,
Do not try to sound deadly sarcastic.
The point here has just turned to the radiation-triggered deformities in babies, i.e. the effects of higher than normal levels of radiation on the fetus.
As far as I remember, these 'higher than normal' levels of radiation are most desruptive (thus causing deformities) of the normal growth of the fetus within the span of several weeks closer to beginning of the fetus development.
It can't be that all the women in Chernobyl area conceived approximately at the same time within the span of those several weeks, unless there was a massive conspiracy to persuade women into simultaneous sex before the preset time for the explosion.
:D
P.S. Did anybody check the child deformity statistics for Hiroshima and Nagasaki ?
This, if available, can easily decide this question
of "all deformed Chernobyl children".
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Originally posted by genozaur
Originally posted by Raider179:
Sorry but I trust the EPA a ton more than I turst your so called "knowledge". [END OF QUOTE]
Hey, Rai,
Are you serious about trusting EPA ?!
I am sure you live too far from New York City.
And who is your friend ?
Is it the twice former NJ governor-turned-sniffing- female-dog of EPA ?
:confused: [/B]
Lets see EPA or Russian propaghandist? you make the call. I have lived near EPA superfund sites does that count? Friend? Not sure but I doubt the head of EPA actually writes the reports on the issues. She is more of a figurehead or puppet whichever one you want to choose.
Notice I said a ton more than....Not I trust totally.
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Originally posted by Rolex
There is plenty of life in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. And no beastly genetic mutations like in the Hollywood movies.
Ohhh noooo there goes Tokyo, go go godzila!
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Originally posted by emodin
Actually, that woman's story and her website are nothing more than lies. I can't remember where, but if you search a little deeper, you will find that the real people who are in charge of that area are very upset at the blatant lies that she has written on her site. IIRC they admit that she came into the restricted zone on one of the tours that anyone can pay to go on (which is where she got some of her pictures), but that the 'rides' she talks about in that area are nothing more than make-believe stories.
I am also a little bit sceptical about that web site
which at the same time is a promotional vehicle for the so-called "Orange Revolution" (which I call 'revolution of oranges'). The site is too much politically charged to be trusted as objective sourse of information.
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Originally posted by Raider179
Lets see EPA or Russian propaghandist? you make the call. I have lived near EPA superfund sites does that count? Friend? Not sure but I doubt the head of EPA actually writes the reports on the issues. She is more of a figurehead or puppet whichever one you want to choose.
Notice I said a ton more than....Not I trust totally.
Puppet is definitely a more politically correct word.
But I still like the phrase "governor-turned-sniffing
-female-dog of EPA".
:D
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
I'm getting annoying? What are you going to do, attack me and throw me into a gulag? I know it's a century old tradition down there to all nay-sayers.
After all this talk you've revealed your true nature. And then you wonder why people consider you're a part of the evil empire.
Siaf,
you are soooo passionate !
Dominatrix or just kinky ?
:D
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No Genozaur I just feel pure hate towards the state the russians left thier country to.
I never believed I'd be able to experience a culture shock untill I visited there.
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
No Genozaur I just feel pure hate towards the state the russians left thier country to.
Sure, any state led by Western Democracy like Germany in 1933-45 could be better in your eyes if Russians could leave their country to it.
Originally posted by Siaf__csf
I never believed I'd be able to experience a culture shock untill I visited there.
Sorry for not providing you with our land, water, and air. I bet they didn't even bring you the keys to Moscow! Bloody barbarians! Didn't met expectations of a civilized person from a democratic country!
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Boroda,
Help me out here, as I don't want to just go tearing in before I know exactly what you are saying.
Are you contending that:
a) Radiation has never been conclusively linked to birth defects?
or
b) The Chernobyl accident did not[/u] release enough radioactive material to cause birth defects in the surrounding area?
or
c) Radiation only poses a threat when you are standing on hot core material which is actively emmitting intense gamma radiation?
Thanks,
SEAGOON
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The story from Estel I promised:
In 1986 4th reactor of Chernobyl power station blows up.
Western propaganda starts to tell horror-stories about evil Russians. I listened to the Voice of America every day in April-May 1986 on short-wave radio, breaking through jamming. They reported numbers of Chernobyl victims daily, numbers went up every day, from something like 4000 in 10-15 days they went up to 80000. That was enough for me and switched to BBC Russian Service, at least their hallucinations didn't go further then 120 Soviet soldiers killed in Afghnaistan daily.
So, in May, 1986, a Western TV team working in Ukraine makes a report about a real "deformed baby", a true mutant with severe birth defects, and it is shown on one of the Western popular TV channels. It was really horrible - they filmed the "real outcome of Chernobyl radiation exposure"!
KGB started an investigation immediately - when did they film this and why we don't know about such outstanding mutations going on!? The answer was simple. Poor baby was born in a family of alcoholics. Parents refused to take the child, preferring to spend money on vodka. And the most interesting fact was that the baby was born in December 1985, 5 months before an accident!
"As shown on TV", our victims of Evil Soviet Radiation claimed the kid back and turned to one Western embassy for political asylum because "Soviet state is responsible for the birth-defects". Funny, but they were let out of country and got to the West. It was a hard time for alcoholics in 1986 - Gorby started an anti-alcohol campaign, and in the West they had a chance to continue with their creative hobby. So, in a few weeks it was all clear to the side that gave them an asylum, so they were kicked in their ass, returned to the Union and spent the rest of their lifes in narcological clinics. Poor kid stayed in the West.
I wonder if the TV programm mentioned in this thread used the same original 1986 footage of a "deformed baby". Maybe the journalists who made an original report about "Russian mutants" still get royalties?...
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Now Boroda, from you:
"Sure, any state led by Western Democracy like Germany in 1933-45 could be better in your eyes if Russians could leave their country to it."
Are you paralelling Hitler's Germany with a Democratic Western state?
That is not just the USA, also Norway, France, Great Britain, FINLAND, the BeNeLux, and so on.
Well, Hitler chose to do business with the USSR before attempting to gobble them up, so, looking better at history, the only proper paralell I can find is Hitler's Germany and the USSR.
That's why the democratic states declaired war on him while he was swapping tools and materials with the USSR.
Happy today? :D
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Some of you need to read "The Plutonium Files". It would change your outlook on the "harmlessness of Radiation". The US govt. injected almost 50 people with "harmless radiation". I don't want to spoil to much.
Karaya
PS - You CANNOT compare the WWII bombs with Chernobyl. Two different styles and methods (i.e. WWII it was in it's infancy and Chernobyl it was definately more refined).
Dont forget about them putting plutonium in quaker Oatmeal in the 50's to see the effects on a certain community
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
No Genozaur I just feel pure hate towards the state the russians left thier country to.
I never believed I'd be able to experience a culture shock untill I visited there.
After the world war II with its enormous loss of life, the survivors just did not want to die so they sacrificed practically everything in order to contribute to the atomic defence effort.
You saw the results of that.
Did you visit Sankt Piterburh ?
It differs somewhat from the rest of the country.
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After the world war II with its enormous loss of life, the survivors just did not want to die so they sacrificed practically everything in order to contribute to the atomic defence effort.
Nothing surprises us, really. You still believe in the communists lies explaining to you that teh evil amreekans were the reason why your planned economy sucked golf balls through garden hoses? Eh.. I mean if you'd have something to suck through.. erm.. if you had hoses.
What about NK, what about China? What about Yugoslavia? They all had to spend all thier money on nuclear race? WAKE UP.
You are all in 100% denial. When will you people learn that you were fed with absolute rubbish throughout your entire lives? The US put 10 times more money to nuclear race and they're still the leading economy on the planet.
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Interesting TV program about crude radiological weapons.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/dirtybomb/