Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Citabria on March 12, 2005, 05:18:36 PM
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for aircraft like attack bombers its nice to have external view in the a-20 and such.
could a code be written to disable fixed forward firing guns in external views. only enable them in internal view?
keep the external view its nice but disable the external view advantage for planes that can exploit it for unobstructed deflection gunnery.
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I see your point Fester, I think the external views should be disabled for attackers anyway.
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Fester, you just may have achieved the ideal compromise for the long debate between those who want external views and those who insist on only internal views for most aircraft and vehicles.
Could your idea be applied to adding external view for all aircraft, including fighters, and disabling all guns and ordnance while in external view?
If need another bargaining chip, could disable external view while flaps or landing gear are down.
Would be great to allow all aircraft to enjoy the spectacle and panorama of external views at least some of the flight. Could make long missions lots more appealing.
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Originally posted by Halo
Fester, you just may have achieved the ideal compromise for the long debate between those who want external views and those who insist on only internal views for most aircraft and vehicles.
Could your idea be applied to adding external view for all aircraft, including fighters, and disabling all guns and ordnance while in external view?
Thank goodness no. Check your six like a real man, and dont expect pretty panoramic views in your blind spots:D If ya want entertainment while cruising try hooking up a TV in yer den:aok
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>>Thank goodness no. Check your six like a real man, and dont expect pretty panoramic views in your blind spots If ya want entertainment while cruising try hooking up a TV in yer den<<
AGREED!! IMHO, Ext views are an advantage no matter how they're exploited...
>>Could your idea be applied to adding external view for all aircraft, including fighters, and disabling all guns and ordnance while in external view?
If need another bargaining chip, could disable external view while flaps or landing gear are down. <<
Can't believe they aren't now...
WD
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I believe that all should be in the internal view. PERIOD!
To be able to (as mentioned above) view clearly your blind spot is redicules while I am quite realisticly turning to look within the confines of my cockpit. :p
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Originally posted by DaddyAck
I believe that all should be in the internal view. PERIOD!
To be able to (as mentioned above) view clearly your blind spot is redicules while I am quite realisticly turning to look within the confines of my cockpit. :p
The fact is that bombers had MULTIPLE men at all the gun stations and constantly scanned the skies for bogeys and reported such to the pilot. Fighters didn't have the same luxury ... if you want to call it a luxury. I would much rather be in a fighter, in WWI, than any bomber ever made.
Since any bomber, in this game can only have a max of 2 guys in a bomber, the external view is a concession that is needed for buff pilots to really survive in this game ... without this ... they are truely dead meat.
Before you go and ask for multiple gunners ... HT emphatically said NO.
I think what Fester is asking for is a good idea.
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GREAT idea Fester. With all the art work being done and all the new planes ect, it would be nice to be able to see the entire out side of your plane. I agree with Halo that it would be a great idea to add this to fighters and keep the restrictions Fester mentioned while in external view.
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Its really only the A20 he's talking about, things handle as well as a 110, and i believe the only gunner is an upper?
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Previously on this subject
I would agree...........
I think the whole attack/bomber issue should be looked at..........
The Il2, ju87, A20, val, SBD etc are pure attack ac and should not have a bomber button and should not have external view IMO.
A re classification of fighter/attack/bomber and some of the stuff enabled when they are used could solve (or partly solve) many ills.
But even going part way would IMO be progress.
Presently we have
Fighters
Fighter/Attackers
Attackers/Bombers.
Bombers.
We have no classification which is "Attack" only yet we have a group of ac (as above) which are clearly this.
To define stuff.
Bombers
Level bombers which may/may not be flown in formation. When this category (bomber)is chosen bomb release should only available from F6. External views enabled.(this "switch" could also be used to introduce AoA limitations to bomb release when in bomber category)
B17, Lanc, B24, B26, Ju88, Ki67, Kate, TBM, Bostons, Ar234 (C47 if it could be given an F6 jump door view)
Attackers/Bombers
Dual purpose versions of the above. When the attack option is chosen then formations, F6 and external views are disabled and bomb release is only available from the cockpit.
B26, Ju88, Ki67,Kate, TBM, Bostons, Ar234
Attackers
Pure attack ac release stuff from the cockpit and have no external view.
Il2, ju87, SBD, Val, A20,(C47 if it does not get an F6 jump door view?)
Fighter attackers.
My view would be to put any fighter with ordinance selected into an attack category automatically.
Fighters
Fighters with no ordinance selected can chose fighter category.
I would wish further that perks were set to show an Attack category in addition to fighter/bomber/GV. Then to dive bomb with a chog, tempest or a 234 some perks should be risked that could not be traded with fighter or bomber points.
Effects would be various........
Less likly hood for dive bombing formations.....
No more dog fighting IL2's/A20's from the external view....
Balancing of attack functionality between fighter/attackers and pure attackers. (eg Mossie & A20 )
Clearer score definitions for fighter/attack/bomber roles....
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Personally I would say get rid of external views totally.
External views for fighters is just redicules. What next ability to remove cockpit? The day fighters have external views in AH is the day I dont play AH, pure and simple.
As for attackers they should definatly have their external views removed.
Tex
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I've just never understood the external view fuss and I've been playing flights sims including Aces High from just about their beginning.
Nobody HAS to use external views but they are a great enhancement to the game spectacle.
The biggest advantage exterrnal views can give is better situational awareness en route to a fight. But once in the fight, it's harder to shoot from external view and much easier to get disoriented and prang.
I've used external views in IL-2 and Fighter Aces, for example, primarily for just the joy of the overall perspective. Adds considerable dimension to any flight sim, in my opinion.
MS Flight Sim 2004 has the best external views anywhere. Effortless and intuitive. Frankly the Aces High external views are not in the same league, but I would hope they could get there in some future version.
The Aces High view from inside the cockpit is world class, but really the Exorcist head needs to be restrained from 360-degree pivoting. IL-2 does more realistic internal viewing.
So, to see what the ultimate best would be like, check out MS FS 2004 viewing for its seamless switch from internal (including virtual cockpit) to external, and check out IL-2 for an excellent combination of external viewing combined with a more realistic restrained internal viewing arc.
I think Citabria's initial posting in this thread, if extended to all aircraft and vehicles AND prohibiting firing any guns or dropping any ordnance in external viewing, would finally resolve this endless controversy and enhance Aces High's status as the premier on-line combat flight sim.
Those who would want to savor the visual spectacle could buzz around in external viewing to their heart's content (and not be able to fire any weapons at all), those would want to stay in the cockpits could remain immersed without yielding any significant advantages, and those who would want to alternate between the two viewings would relish an even more magnificent game.
It's a game no matter what rules are invoked, and better use of its innate capabilities would make it a better game.
Aces High probably has enough resources to test a second Main Arena offering this compromise solution. Betcha that arena would eclipse in the present Main Arena within two months.
Oh, and when that second Main Arena comes, knock off the perk points. Do that and the new arena will eclipse the present Main Arena in ONE month.
After all, the dwindling participation in Combat Theater demonstrates that most Aces High subscribers are more interested in open play than restricted historically accurate scenarios.
Adding a second Main Arena with external viewing (with no weapons available while in external mode) and no perk hassles could boost Aces High subscribers by 30% while retaining the present dedicated clientele.
If I owned Aces High stock, that's the way I'd vote to get max return on investment and -- no kidding -- keep everyone happy with an arena somewhere that gives everyone exactly what they want.
It also would result in better simulation in all arenas because each arena would attract the people who like its mode best and thus result in better game play among those who choose the differences between Main Arena Perk and Internal Viewing, Main Arena No Perk and Internal/External Viewing (latter without weapons enabled), and Combat Theater.
Sorry for the windy post, but it's difficult to discuss these two most controversial aspects of Aces High without enough detail to preclude endless one-liner fragmentation and fragging.
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Nobody has to use the external views true, but that aint the point.
The point is people will use it. Which means that there will be no bilnd spots. Players will have a totally unrealistic field of view.
Imagine a P51 fleeing. Hit x and go to f3 view to make sure no one sneaks up on you from your blind spot.
Tex
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In game play it gives advantages to the IL2M3 (in particular) and the A20 that they have no right to have.
You can dog fight pulling full deflection shots with full sight of the opponent...........
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>>Tilt:
In game play it gives advantages to the IL2M3 (in particular) and the A20 that they have no right to have.
You can dog fight pulling full deflection shots with full sight of the opponent...........<<
EGG-ZACTLY!! I'd fly the 38G more if I had this ability...
>>TexMurphy:
Nobody has to use the external views true, but that aint the point.
The point is people will use it. Which means that there will be no bilnd spots. Players will have a totally unrealistic field of view.
Imagine a P51 fleeing. Hit x and go to f3 view to make sure no one sneaks up on you from your blind spot.<<
EGG-ZACTLY x2 !! I understand that the Buffs were manned & the crewmen could call out enemy's & fire at attackers... but weren't the individual crewman's particular views also restricted ?? I.E. the tail gunner couldn't see the 190 from "hi 12"... Also, weren't the gunners supplied with 60sec's of ammo ??
I'm just guessing here but weren't these abilities given to the buffs to increase their survivabiliy ?? Along with the option of formations that can be driven by a single player, as well as manned with an additional crewman ??
I don't have a problem with ppl flyin buffs or wanting to egg fields til there's nothing left to fight ...
what I do have a problem with are "advantages/options" that are given to the buffs so they can "survive" ...
in WW2, buffs were notoriously easy prey if unescorted... just look at the "Mighty 8th's" losses during 43...
I'm sure there are some here who can quote the #'s verbatim but it's something like 100,000 air crewman lost in 11months or something like that...(just saw it on the military chnl:D ) ...
Now I don't want buffs that can be knocked down with fly-swatters, but ...
ahh hell I dunno what I want in this matter,(or should I say "my opinion of this matter")...
I know it's a game, but I know that I have to keep in mind of these options/advantages of these particular planes... (again in my opinion) they can exploit "things" that aren't available to me strictly because I'm not flying that plane...
Maybe I'm of the mind to give it to one then give it to all... ??
But I don't want that either... I like the fact that the F6's rear views are restricted...or that the 38G's forward view is restricted, limited & just a big pain in the arse, ... I like the fact that we have to work around it, without external views for "survivability"...
the fighters are what they are, and we're given them as is & make do...
do the tanks/GV's have Ext views available ??
I've just never tried them & I'm curious is all...
Not tryin to start a firestorm or offend anyone... just is the way I see things...
WD
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>>Tilt:
In game play it gives advantages to the IL2M3 (in particular) and the A20 that they have no right to have.
You can dog fight pulling full deflection shots with full sight of the opponent...........<<
EGG-ZACTLY!! I'd fly the 38G more if I had this ability...
>>TexMurphy:
Nobody has to use the external views true, but that aint the point.
The point is people will use it. Which means that there will be no bilnd spots. Players will have a totally unrealistic field of view.
Imagine a P51 fleeing. Hit x and go to f3 view to make sure no one sneaks up on you from your blind spot.<<
EGG-ZACTLY x2 !! I understand that the Buffs were manned & the crewmen could call out enemy's & fire at attackers... but weren't the individual crewman's particular views also restricted ?? I.E. the tail gunner couldn't see the 190 from "hi 12"... Also, weren't the gunners supplied with 60sec's of ammo ??
I'm just guessing here but weren't these abilities given to the buffs to increase their survivabiliy ?? Along with the option of formations that can be driven by a single player, as well as manned with an additional crewman ??
I don't have a problem with ppl flyin buffs or wanting to egg fields til there's nothing left to fight ...
what I do have a problem with are "advantages/options" that are given to the buffs so they can "survive" ...
in WW2, buffs were notoriously easy prey if unescorted... just look at the "Mighty 8th's" losses during 43...
I'm sure there are some here who can quote the #'s verbatim but it's something like 100,000 air crewman lost in 11months or something like that...(just saw it on the military chnl:D ) ...
Now I don't want buffs that can be knocked down with fly-swatters, but ...
ahh hell I dunno what I want in this matter,(or should I say "my opinion of this matter")...
I know it's a game, but I know that I have to keep in mind of these options/advantages of these particular planes... (again in my opinion) they can exploit "things" that aren't available to me strictly because I'm not flying that plane...
Maybe I'm of the mind to give it to one then give it to all... ??
But I don't want that either... I like the fact that the F6's rear views are restricted...or that the 38G's forward view is restricted, limited & just a big pain in the arse, ... I like the fact that we have to work around it, without external views for "survivability"...
the fighters are what they are, and we're given them as is & make do...
do the tanks/GV's have Ext views available ??
I've just never tried them & I'm curious is all...
Not tryin to start a firestorm or offend anyone... just is the way I see things...
WD