Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: JB88 on March 12, 2005, 10:33:13 PM
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have an idea.
when a GV ups at a spawn point, they dont become visible to an enemy GV for say...10 seconds or so...not sure what the right amount of time would be.
this allows them to scan thier environment and at least attempt to lock in on any campers that are already locked in on them.
levels the field a bit.
whaddya think?
:D
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Spawn campers would get wasted. I like it hehe.
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Just make the spawn random and it will fix it compeltely.
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Originally posted by JB88
have an idea.
when a GV ups at a spawn point, they dont become visible to an enemy GV for say...10 seconds or so...not sure what the right amount of time would be.
this allows them to scan thier environment and at least attempt to lock in on any campers that are already locked in on them.
levels the field a bit.
whaddya think?
:D
so vulchies will be inviso too for say 10 15 secs as too let them take off and get on level field with vulchers right?
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this already seems to happen sometime. park behind spawn point, and a shot fires out of thin air one ping killing you...been there, done that, got the Tshirt.
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I don't do a heck of alot of spawn camping, but it seems to me
that the ability to magically teleport into a battle area rather than
drive to it confers distinct advantages on the spawnee.
Admittedly it can be annoying to constantly be "vultched" on
spawning, but it's not like you will run out of panzers.
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delay is 3 seconds i believe. the spawn campers are a pain , but weve all been there. The upsetting think now is entire squads are dedicated to holding certain spawn points. They will bring supplies and air support to a single tiger for hours at a time.
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The delay is random - I'm not sure how HT does it but what I have noticed is that if you spawn in a Panzer for the first time you have a few seconds to scan around and try to pick off a spawn camper. If you continue to spawn in a panzer now the enemy sees you right away. If you switch to a T34 (1st time Spawning) you again get a few seconds to scan and kill. If you spawn again in a T34 the enemy sees you right away. I switch back and forth from Panzer to T34 and I usually can break the Spawn point provided there are no Tigers present. I use Panzers for smoke and T34s (Turret turns real fast) to pick off campers. I agree with porky - make spawn random or why not add more spawn points - enemy would be thinned out trying to guard 3 spawn points to one area.
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additional spawn points might work too.
something. anything! :)
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Disable the kills landed and victory messages for ground vehicles. It might help. No glory kinda takes the fun out of camping, ya think? Unless... habitual campers actually do this for perks. heh
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Originally posted by whels
so vulchies will be inviso too for say 10 15 secs as too let them take off and get on level field with vulchers right?
I like to let guys get airborne before I vulch 'em...
This gives them the false impression of "I almost made it!". It's "obvious" their superb timing and piloting skills were the key factors in them making it into the air, so they will try again and again.
It makes for a fun and easy target! Entertainment for you and your friends...
Edmo
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Originally posted by Octavius
Disable the kills landed and victory messages for ground vehicles. It might help.
Do that and better take away 2+ kill record message for planes too - might help against vulching. Whats good for the ground pounders is good for the flyboys.
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The difference between spawn camping and vulching is that you can see the guys from the tower, you're helpless in the GV not knowing until its too late.
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actually, i think we should keep that. nothing like surviving a fair battle and claiming your pelts.
if spawning were either random or switched to a method which forced players into a greater game of cat and mouse then i think that it could only enhance the gameplay.
imagine a grid that popped up when you clicked on your tank and you could enter from that chosen point all within a thousand yards of a certain point.
at least then you would not only have a fighting chance without gaining too much advantage, but you would also have noone to blame but yourself if you kept getting instowhacked.
i think i like the random or variable spawn even better than the idea that i presented actually.
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Spawn Once and get Killed shame on Me, Spawn Again........What was I thinking.......Spawn Again.........Get what I Deserve...... Don't Spawn Again And let everone on Country CH Spawn point Camped. .....Camper gets Board .......Camper goes Home:aok :D
Crims
479th Raiders
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spoken like a true spawn camper!
:)
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Originally posted by CPorky
The difference between spawn camping and vulching is that you can see the guys from the tower, you're helpless in the GV not knowing until its too late.
Very true Porky but what about principle - wait - pinch me - ah - it's only a game - thats right.
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Well my two bits worth.
I have spawn camped from time to time, I call it strategic base defense, lol, but most times i like to stay back from the spawn point a ways and let the person get up and get moving and have an ambush set up in the most likely route to target. Makes it funner than just killing them when they up.
1. Almost everyone has spawned camp at one point or another.
2. I agree their are groups that will provide aircover and keep supplies going so someone can camp.
3. someone said don't spawn and they will leave, you must not be much of a gv'er, I have seen the same person camp a spawn for hours. Just sitting their and waiting for someone to randomly spawn.
4. How I think the camping can be fixed is as suggested above add more spawn points, but also is to set the map so You can not see the enemy spawn points. This would make it very interesting. The only way you would be able to camp at this point is to get lucky and beclose to a point when some one ups.
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This coming from a guy who has spent 14 hours in GVs so far, just THIS month?
Irony... :)
Originally posted by EN4CER
Very true Porky but what about principle - wait - pinch me - ah - it's only a game - thats right.
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Originally posted by CPorky
This coming from a guy who has spent 14 hours in GVs so far, just THIS month?
Irony... :)
Sorry but got bored with flying, vulching, alt monkeying, jabbo-in and flying through barns and all that stuff. Been GVin trying to improve my overall skills and I would much rather land 3 field kills than 30 camp kills any day of the week. So lately for the past 3 or 4 months I spend majority of my time GVin. Besides its a nice little sub community within the game - good people. And yes - its just a game for me - I play for fun.
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I think the saddest thing I ever saw in AH was on Mindenao map when both sides had about 20 guys each camping their respective parallel spawn points for hours and hours with no GV fighting going on whatsover. So it was just a standoff at the magic teleport site with no fighting...
I think the best solution would be a spawn point randomizer where you could be landed into any of a number of dispersed points within a particular spawn area. Or you cpuld choose the particulr points yourself.
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Spawn tank. Boom, camper got me.
Try one more time... Boom camper got me.
Spawn Hurri IID from nearby. Introduce the camper to the 'Vickers twins'.
Camper brings in flier friends to shoot me down.
Spawn tank. Boom, camper got me...
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Originally posted by Tails
Spawn Hurri IID from nearby. Introduce the camper to the 'Vickers twins'. Camper brings in flier friends to shoot me down.
Bring some B24s - Give Mr. Camper an early XMas present - something I'm sure he'll remember you by - let's say in the 1,000lb range. Then when his buddy flies up on you - give him a little taste of the 50 cals. A slight smile will appear on your face as his fighter plane suddenly turns into a smoking piece of swiss cheese. Then respond accordingly to their insults on Channel 200. The usual witty insult is something along the lines of "Afraid to come fight me GV to GV." Laugh, Fly home, and land your kills.
You: X number kills.
Camper and Buddies: Watching lovely view in the base tower.
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Originally posted by CPorky
The difference between spawn camping and vulching is that you can see the guys from the tower, you're helpless in the GV not knowing until its too late.
hate to bust ur bubble but the most kills gained at a camp, are the guys who keep respawning again and again.......
ive seen/killed 1 guy give over 200 kills to a camp in over an hours time.
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Originally posted by whels
ive seen/killed 1 guy give over 200 kills to a camp in over an hours time.
I can't fathom how this is even fun for the camper. It seems to me like the kind of tedium one finds in games like Ultima Online where you have to chop wood or bake bread to build up your skills. I don't play those games because that kind of rote stuff becomes boring incredibly fast.
I just don't see the pleasure or glory in spawn camping I guess. Or, for that matter, in ground vehicles in general.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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You know what makes a spawn camper end mission? Don't spawn there anymore. His boredom will soon get the better of him. If you keep going after him to send him back to tower, you are giving him exactly what he wants: entertainment.
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We already have a level playing field for Spawn Campers. Its called the IL2, P38L, G or J and the 110. But that does require team work which you have to agree only seems to be done by the other side.
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You just don't know the dedication of some of the spawn campers then, they will stay their for hours just waiting for some unsupecting victim.
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i just keep upping and upping and upping.
sooner or later he will miss you or get sloppy.
the more kills you give him, the more pissed he is when you shoot him.
I dont like GVs much, #i'll up an osti at a base when FHs are down but thats it.
but.......if someone call on country channel that X spawn is camped. i will make it my mission to up tanks and kill the campers.
man you should see how much pleasure can be gained from killing a camper who has 30+ 'kills'.
man its funny
.
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good point bat,
but then, you also have to consider that a good gambler would now when to hold em, know when to fold em.
you may or may not be concerned with rank, but it is definately detrimental to score no?
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Make it so that if camper shoots the spawner withing 10 seconds, it counts as a kill shooter :rofl
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Originally posted by JB88
you may or may not be concerned with rank, but it is definately detrimental to score no?
Absolutley but as for me I could care less about rank. It's like Batfink said - you get a camper with 30+ kills with that invisible shot they can't see - it's a good feeling.
Spawn Cost
Panzer 1 Life
T34 1 Life
Panzer 1 Life
T34 1 Life
Panzer 1 Life
T34 1Life
Killing Camper who just killed you 6 times and robbing him of landing 30+ kills - priceless
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spawn campers are just skilless tank dweebs,if u gotta sit 500 feet from spawn to get a kill ,,u SUCK,,heavean forbid that ui learn how tro manuver your armor,,besides if u camp any experianced player will only spawn once or twice ,,but if u let them get up and going they will just keep comming
a cpl ways to break the camp
get 5or 10 to all spawn together ,he can only shoot one at a time ,fly bomber in for a little special delivery,,,or just drive in,,,or keep upping till he runs outa ammo and leaves up and shoot him
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You mean those GVs can be manned? By human players? LOL!
I have seen un-named induviduals from un-named countries camping with as many as 20 tanks at a time, literally fighting each other for the camp-meat while dozens of GV supplies litter the hillside. Its a pretty depressing sight for me, but I despise the GV aspect of this game anyhow. Carry on.
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Originally posted by Edbert
You mean those GVs can be manned? By human players? LOL!
I have seen un-named induviduals from un-named countries camping with as many as 20 tanks at a time, literally fighting each other for the camp-meat while dozens of GV supplies litter the hillside. Its a pretty depressing sight for me, but I despise the GV aspect of this game anyhow. Carry on.
The game has evolved. It's not just a game for dogfighting anymore. You can bomb without aiming, dive bomb lancs, spawn camp. kill fighters while gunning in buffs from huge distances using the same guns the fighters use. Get down a few players and have a plane advantage over the opposition. There's more but you see how things change.
If spawn camping is a part of the game learn to overcome it.
It sounds like the powers that be are listening to what people want. :)
What more could anyone ask for?:rolleyes:
Ren
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The Damned
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It's standard military doctrine to target likely avenues of approach.
I just pretend that each spawn point is its own little 'Fulda Gap' and will be defended.
If I wanted "realism" I'd be driving for 6 hours in the gv before I contacted the enemy at a place that 'looks like a good spot for an ambush.' That is not really what I want.
If a spawn point is camped, I either take a heavy 110 or try to round up some other tankers to assault it. I have a choice, maybe not the one I want, but I do have a choice.
Ive also camped (not for long since I get bored and have limited time to play AHII) so I have no grounds to cry and whine about campers. I would expect that this is true for many of us here.
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I have a few ideas.
1. Make spawn arrows invisible to the enemy and have the spawn location change slightly after a base is taken. On the map the enemy can see that a spawn point exists, just not where it is.
2. Widen the spawn area to a 1000 yard radius. Someone already suggested this, I think it's a good idea.
3. Put a spawn ring on the map around a enemy base for all to see. Place a spawn line and arrow from each enemy base that is allowed to spawn to the ring. This lets you know that the enemy can spawn to your base. Make the spawn point selectable, click on any portion of the ring that is on land then select spawn and you will appear in that general area. Groups may click on the same general area to spawn close to each other.
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Originally posted by DaYooper
It's standard military doctrine to target likely avenues of approach.
I just pretend that each spawn point is its own little 'Fulda Gap' and will be defended.
If I wanted "realism" I'd be driving for 6 hours in the gv before I contacted the enemy at a place that 'looks like a good spot for an ambush.' That is not really what I want.
Realism - after you get there you wait three days at the likey ambush spot hoping something would drive by.... :D
Ren
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The Damned
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Right now one tiger with he can control a field. Tiger with he that avoids other nme tanks, that tiger will not only destroy vh and ord but also kill town. If u allow different spawn points tanks will decide if a field will be taken or not. A panzer almost hav's enough he 2 kill vh and town. Actually a panzer does have enough he 2 kill vh and town. U just have 2 angle your shots perfectly 2 kill 2 or 3 buildings at a time. My 2 cents u take away spawn campers Tanks will control the game. I'm sure many here would like that:>
If u do change spawn points then lower the damage that an he shell can do towards buildings. If not u will have many angry furballers complaining about how a base was overrun by 2 panzers killing every building in sight.
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the thing for me is skill.
i dont think that it takes any real skill to spawn camp once you learn how and i dont really take all that much pride in spawn kills. IMHO they are a cheap way to look nifty and pad your score.
i just dont see the sport of it really.
oh, and all you have to do to defend against a gv attack on a VB is protect the map room.
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Originally posted by JB88
The thing for me is skill. I dont think that it takes any real skill to spawn camp once you learn how and i dont really take all that much pride in spawn kills. IMHO they are a cheap way to look nifty and pad your score.
Good point JB88 - I agree. I think most of us have been there JB88 – I know I have. It becomes “Hey, if I can’t beat them join them” type thing. It’s like a cycle (Same goes for flying), you go through the newbie phase of getting your rear end handed to you on a silver platter daily, then you progress and learn about and how to spawn camp, pad your perk account, and look like you know what your doing. After that very few players learn the correct hit points on GVs, learn to use cover and concealment properly, learn to set up ambushes, learn to maneuver their GV correctly, learn to defeat a Tiger with a Panzer, etc. This final stage takes some work to accomplish. I think the majority of tankers just say – “Ah, I’ll pass on that stuff, I’ll just camp” which for me personally became boring. I always understood what HiTech meant by “a more palatable kill”, it took time for me to appreciate his statement which now I do.
Oh, and all you have to do to defend against a gv attack on a VB is protect the map room.
True but it's easier said then done - especially when you are outnumbered and have no airsupport and the enemy does.
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Originally posted by EN4CER
I think the majority of tankers just say � �Ah, I�ll pass on that stuff, I�ll just camp� which for me personally became boring.
Thats pretty much it, alright.
I tried the GV war a few times and saw my 88s ricochet off of M8s and M3s when an Ostwind would kill my tiger and said "I'll pass on that stuff" too. But I meant the GV aspect entirely. Every now and then I'll up an osti or M16 and try to kill some vulchers, but thats about it.
Last night I jumped into a field gun to kill a Panzer that was parked in our VH, after over 100 hits he finally blew up. My first G2G kill in many tours...LOL!
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Originally posted by JB88
the thing for me is skill.
i dont think that it takes any real skill to spawn camp once you learn how and i dont really take all that much pride in spawn kills. IMHO they are a cheap way to look nifty and pad your score.
i just dont see the sport of it really.
Methinks you miss the point, good Sir.
For you its skill. For others its a challenge. For others it's just a fun thing to do. Others might be bored and think it'd be fun to mess with yer mind. :)
For whatever reason they do what they do they're having fun and they do not presume to impose their will on you. Why do you want to do the same to them?
BTW, score? what's that? It has value? To whom? Only the guy who wants a score. If you want a truthful opinion I could care less what anyones "score" is. What I do care about is when I meet that plane in the sky I'm going after it. I don't know who it is. I don't care who it is. It is a target that Im gonna to wax when the opportunity presents itself. Or die trying....:) My score is: I go up, I fly, I wax some enemy planes, I land the kills. I don't need any number to tell me that I did that. I already know I did. The guy I shot down knows I did. That's enough for him and me. Because now he's up hunting for me and I'm back up hunting him again and any other plane that comes into view.:D
There's an old saying that's been around for years in these sims. "IF YOU TAKE OFF FROM A CAPPED FIELD YOU GET WHAT YOU DESERVE". If you die from a spawn camper, don't fly a tank. Is that all you can do? Drive a tank? Do you have to spawn there? How any fields and spawn points are there on these maps? Only 3? 5? 100? Can you fly? Can you bomb? Or is dien at a capped field all you can do in this game?
Come on get creative.
Ren
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The Damned
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>>it seems to me
that the ability to magically teleport into a battle area rather than
drive to it confers distinct advantages on the spawnee. <<
Rino: I had a similar thought ;) It is also a distinct disadvantage to the field which is under attack by them. You know, ever since I have been playing this, there have periodically been aspects of gaminess that pops up, especially when new versions or aircraft models are introduced. This business of spawn camping has increased by a thousand, and has yeilded huge amounts of landed kills for many. For some that provides a thrill and constitutes fun, and IMO if that is what one looks for, and plays the game that way, then that is also one of the risks one takes; you spawn camp and get kills, or you spawn and get killed. There is actually a disadvantage to the camper in that he/she has to drive to the spawn spot, the spawner doesn't have to, just click on a button in the control tower and there you are!
There seems always to be those players who want/need to game the game, as they are paying for the opportunity, they have a right to play the game the way they want to. That one or more of them may do that and post when they are dissatified with the gaminess is ridiculous.
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Originally posted by DamnedRen
Come on get creative.
Ren
_________________
The Damned
funny. i thought i was being creative when i began making suggestions to even out the game play and cut down on a silly scenario. no, tanks didnt pop up in thin air, and did they have to enter at a specific and constant point either.
oh well. same as it ever was.
:)
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War is inconvenient in real life or in a game. The fix is already in place, I'm sure HT thought of this. Check this out. you up and spawn camper is there, and it really bothers you, Heres the fix. Get killed enough so your sure Its a spawn camper, ( 2 times is enough to tell me hes there to stay and kill me) others It takes many more then 2 , why? I dunno!. do this...........
DO NOT Up a tank again, Why? Because He or She Will "I said Will" KILL you Again and again....... Get in a plane and go kill his or her spawning vh and supplies if needed. If possible take that base and leave them in the middle of nowhere. lmao! now that funny! Then go bomb him or her in his or hers little cume-by-yaahh camping spot and go back to land or even! bail!! to get in your tank faster and Then and only Then up your tank of choice and drive off in the sunset.
Man everybody has there own thing, let'm play, seems most of these issues are split 50-50,, some like , some dont. win some lose some.
Its a very cool game and some very cool people play it. Its all good..~
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Originally posted by tactic
[B DO NOT Up a tank again, Why? Because He or She Will "I said Will" KILL you Again and again....... Get in a plane and go kill his or her spawning vh and supplies if needed. If possible take that base and leave them in the middle of nowhere. lmao! now that funny! Then go bomb him or her in his or hers little cume-by-yaahh camping spot and go back to land or even! bail!! to get in your tank faster and Then and only Then up your tank of choice and drive off in the sunset.
Ya know, in an old flt sim game for days of yore they actually had a jeep you could drive around. It had no guns but it was a 4 speed and would do around 45 or so (hard to remember that far back now). Anyway, in those times, people got up and flew just like they do now. Except for one big difference. They really wanted to land their kills. They just didn't want to off and jabo themselves, along with their eggs, into the ground. They actually felt it was an accomplishment to takeoff, shoot someone down and land the kills. And die'n was for folks who just couldn't fly. So just about everyone spent time really trying to learn to fly and fight. Actually the game was played some much along those lines that it became a matter to pride to see how many flights/kills you could get without die'n. That being the case, the lonely little jeep, that could do nothing but drive around the field and race down the runway turned into a recon vehicle to see if someone was overhead, or parked nearby. You could jump in, spawn on the end of the runway and look around.If no one was there, you'd take off. The point? Don't take off from a capped field. It's that simple.
Man everybody has there own thing, let'm play, seems most of these issues are split 50-50,, some like , some dont. win some lose some. [/B]
I agree. Times change. Maybe its just that people don't have the time to really learn about the nuances of the game. While it IS just a game I have always likened it to a rather fast moving chess game. There is an opening move, a middle, then an end game. Only it's happening in seconds iso of minutes. As I said before it was a matter to pride to be able to master this game because, like chess, your opponent is not a computer but anther guy out there trying to beat you at the same game. Or you can drive a tank. Personally I don't care what anyone drives as they. like me, pay the same amount to play the same game as I do. The game itself provides the limits to which we can go. But, you still play the game the way you want to, within those limits. If you want to join the ranks of those who came before you as excellent fighter pilots, then spend some time with any of our trainers. They have been there and know that if you get proficient the game becomes even more fun. If you take the time to learn so will they take the time to teach you the ropes.
Or, as I said before, you can always drive a tank and look up at those guys who've mastered flight or are spending the time to do so. :)
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Ahh yes Ren speaks wisely....but left out "car bombing" :)
culero (those were the days, eh?)
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Originally posted by culero
culero (those were the days, eh?)
Remember vulching vulchers in a buff. They dive in on you while you sat at the end of the runway and you drop eggs and both of you'd go up?:rofl
Vaders with 1/4 tank and you'd burn off a couple of thousand rounds to get light so you dogfight in it? Then shoot down 10-20 fighters? :lol
Or park a vader on the end of the runway at 45 degrees to the side and shoot anyone who spawned? 10 kills later the guy finally saw you so you;d take off and fight him in the air. MUAHAHAHAHAHA! Hence came the phrase, DONT TAKE OFF FROM A CAPPED FIELD.
Yep, those were the days...:aok
Ren
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The Damned
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Vaders were arguably the coolest plane in AW.
Another lovely use: having porked the airfields of the enema, use a Vader's seemingly unlimited ammo load to keep the goon launch field in RT-ETO terrain vulched...no resupply :)
culero