Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: TexMurphy on March 14, 2005, 03:21:07 AM
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I know some spits had "clipped wings" but I have no idea why.
Could anyone please enlighten me on why some spits had clipped wings?
Tex
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Originally posted by TexMurphy
I know some spits had "clipped wings" but I have no idea why.
Could anyone please enlighten me on why some spits had clipped wings?
Tex
Increased roll rate and decreased drag at the expense of performance at altitude. During the later part of the war on the western front most operations were at relatively low level so it was considered a good trade off.
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I think this was done initaily to combat the 190's superior roll rate
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Trading high alt performance out for speed and roll rate basically.
They also cropped the turbines to kick in at lower altitude.
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And there's me thinking it was to make them look as ugly as german planes so the Nazis wouldn't feel too bad about losing!
;)
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Originally posted by Skydancer
And there's me thinking it was to make them look as ugly as german planes so the Nazis wouldn't feel too bad about losing!
;)
:rofl
my one word response was going to be:
UGLY
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Ugly? I think not :) My favorite, the Spit XII, a most definate response to the 190s that were hitting the south coast of England in 43. Clipped wings to improve the roll rate, tall tail to help with the torque from the Griffon III or IV out front that made it a better performer then the IX from 18K down.
They'd troll below the 190s and 109s hoping they came down, where they'd turn into them and do their thing. Best day was 9 for no loss, October 20, 1943 and based on postwar research, no overclaims on that one either.
Dan
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/169_1103870266_41spitxiis.jpg)
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Say Dan, what's the difference between the 8 and 12? Both have the pointy tail, right?
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Originally posted by Engine
Say Dan, what's the difference between the 8 and 12? Both have the pointy tail, right?
XII got the tall tail first to help counter the torque of the Griffon. VIII was a Merlin 60 series Spit and initially it and the VII had rounded tails like the Spit V and IX. The tall tail was added for the same reason as the XII in that it helped counter the torque from the more powerful engine etc. The later IXs got it too as did the photo recce versions with two stage Merlins.
You can even find the occasional photo where the tall tail was retrofitted to earlier Spit Vs.
Later in the war you could find Spit IX squadrons that had examples using the original rudder while others had the tall tail.
The Spit XVI that was essentially a Spit IX with an American made Merlin 266 came off the production line with the tall tail too.
Dan
The long winded :)
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Oh no... you mentioned Spit12s, Dan's pet project.
Run for the hills! :)
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in my mind a spit is defined by 'that' wing shape.
clipped wings = ugly.
may as well paint a cessna 152 with RAF colours and call it a spitfire.
no, no and NO.
just my opinion.
they're still better looking than 90% of other RAF planes though. :p
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Don't forget the pointy wing tips ones also.
Would love a clipped wing VIII or XII, don't think we'll ever see one, and if we do it will be perked. Seems to be a thing about perking the RAF performers.
No I'm not including the Tiffy, despite being a capable aircraft it's not really in the same class as say a Pony or Lala. Different role.
All major countries have their high performers free of perks apart from us Brits.
Could at least unperk the Spit XIV, wouldn't expect or ask for the Tempest to be unperked (reduced maybe).
Maybe Dan can help here-
Spit VIII same fuselage as the Mk14 but with a Mk9 'e' wing.? If so not much work to introduce. Guessing the first Brit planes to get the new model overhaul would be the Spits, good time to introduce one.
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Spitfire VIII would have the Merlin 66, regular span wings (for the most part. There were a few with extended and some clipped). It would have the broad chord taller rudder, retractable tail wheel, short span ailerons and the Universal wing. It did not ever have an E wing.
The last 50 Spit XIIs and the XIV used the fuselage of the VIII.
In many regards the LFVIII would be the best compromise as it would allow for the greatest variety in skins, covering the CBI, MTO, Pacific etc. The RAAF Spits were Vc and VIIIs
In an ideal world they'd do the VIIIc, and then an LFIXe/XVIe with clipped wings, tall tail and 3 hard points for the post D-Day time frame.
That and a regular wingspan VIII with the Universal wing would be Spit heaven
Dan
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German Planes Ugly???????????
While i'll give you the Spitfire and Ponies looked very sleek and elegant, almost princess-like, the Fw190 had the distinct look of "I'm going to take a huge bite out of your arse and when i'm done with that, i'll take another bite!"
Ugly? pffft!!!
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Originally posted by JB42
German Planes Ugly???????????
While i'll give you the Spitfire and Ponies looked very sleek and elegant, almost princess-like, the Fw190 had the distinct look of "I'm going to take a huge bite out of your arse and when i'm done with that, i'll take another bite!"
Ugly? pffft!!!
Sounds more like a Tiffy/Tempest to me. Although they don't bite - THEY CHOMP.
Dan - Don't know why but I'm still thinking the Spit 8 used the same fuselage as our Spit 14?
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Yeah but they're still smurfy :p
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Man, I'd love an LFVIII, clipped or not. We've got 16 109s, might as well toss in another spit. :)
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Thanks for the answers guys!!
Sounds like the clipped wing spit design team where thinkin...
"Lets clip the wings on the spit so that we create a potentionally uber plane in what will be known as video games in the 21th century." ;)
Kev mentioned the pointy wings. I ment to ask about them as well.
Anyone (Dan) got the scope on that?
Personally when it comes down to looks the standard spit wings are imho "perfection to beauty through sleak aerodynamic looks" (tm) only matched by mother natures design of dolphins.
Tex
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Originally posted by TexMurphy
Thanks for the answers guys!!
Sounds like the clipped wing spit design team where thinkin...
"Lets clip the wings on the spit so that we create a potentionally uber plane in what will be known as video games in the 21th century." ;)
Kev mentioned the pointy wings. I ment to ask about them as well.
Anyone (Dan) got the scope on that?
Personally when it comes down to looks the standard spit wings are imho "perfection to beauty through sleak aerodynamic looks" (tm) only matched by mother natures design of dolphins.
Tex
Pointy wings were fitted to Spits for extremely hi-alt flying.
An example would be the MkVII, although by D-Day most had had them removed and standard tips fitted.
I believe they were fitted to most Mks from the Spit 9 onward.
(http://www.modellversium.de/galerie/bilder/771-IM002395.jpg)
Only a model but gives an idea what they look like.
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First Spit to use the extented pointed wingtips for high alt flying was the Spitfire VI, another of the small production models for a specific purpose, which was high alt stuff.
The VI was a modified Spitfire V with a 4 blade prop, pressurized canopy and extended wings and a modified single stage Merlin. The canopy of the VI had to be bolted on over the pilot for the pressurized cockpit to work. Needless to say, not very popular and often flown without the canopy. Only about 100 built and not a huge success as the single stage merlin just couldn't do the job up high.
Second version was the VII that had two stage Merlin optimized for high alt work, the pointed tips and pressurized cockpit with sliding canopy. The VII was another batch of just over 100 built Spits. As Kev mentioned by D-Day the VIIs were being flown with standard wingtips and often used for ground attack. There just weren't any targets up high.
Both VIIIs and IXs could be found with the pointed tips as well.
A couple of Spit Vs were locally modified in the Med with pointed tips to chase high alt recce birds too.
Dan
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Sounds more like a Tiffy/Tempest to me. Although they don't bite - THEY CHOMP.
Dan - Don't know why but I'm still thinking the Spit 8 used the same fuselage as our Spit 14?
Guess I'm not sure what you mean by that Kev. The XIV was built using the VIII fuselage but obviously modifed up front to accept the Griffon and the tail surfaces were also larger. But from the firewall to the tail the VIII and XIV were the same bird. The original XIVs with the universal wing had the same short span ailerons etc too.
Dan
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Allied planes are very sexy looking....But luft planes ugly? no way....they are fierce...mean......they come from the same place nightmares are made