Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: TracerX on March 17, 2005, 03:02:10 PM
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Should I be expecting orders for Friday night? I haven't recieved any yet. For some reason I get the feeling that FSO is canceled this week. I assume that the orders are just late getting sent. USMC is flying Allied side.
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I have not yet received allied orders either.
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It is on for this Friday.
I know iceMAW was working on the Axis orders. Will send out a reminder to the Allied Frame C.O. Thursday is too late IMHO.
Maybe I should start applying a penalty for Frame C.O.'s who get their orders out after Wed. Take a way points from their side. The past couple of months the majority have been after Wed.
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Good I was going to post we have not goten orders yet either
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I agree something should be done, but I must admit that I have had to put my orders out on Thursday before. On that occasion, it was Early Thursday however. Sometimes I just need that extra night to write things up just right so I have them out on Thursday morning. Say by 12:00 pm Eastern time on Thursday, and I would be good.
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I like getting orders by wednesday because on squad night we fly the plane we are assigned to fly for friday to get all our pilots up to par if they usally do not fly that plane and we also go in the Dueling arena some times and fight what we are flying against to find strenghts and weeknesses
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Sorry guys. Allied orders will be out tonight. Had some cross communications regarding who was taking care of it.
Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs
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It would difficult to place a restriction on orders out by Wednesday DD. I could see maybe by Thursday evening, but I know when I did mine I had questions that took some time to get answered - so Thursday was the earliest I could send them out.
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We have the orders (allied)and they have been forwarded to the squad:)
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Almost always the orders to the Frame C.O.'s go out by Saturday. I check my mail daily so if someone has a question I get back to them in about 12 hours. I think I could say the same for KO the other Admin CM.
That leaves Sunday/Monday for Frame C.O.'s to shoot the squads some questions about what ride they want. Once that is settled they can get the orders out the next day or two. Wed should be the latest IMHO.
Unless of course you don't have a valid X.O. e-mail address so someone can cover your butt and then your out of town. No problem, we can just wait till you return and put 220 plus guys on hold till your ready. :rolleyes:
My sarcasm is not directed at you DOWjambu, but someone else who may or may not read this thread. ;)
I think we can consider a penalty for those that send out orders after Wed. Maybe 100 points off the side that has the late order C.O.? I will e-mail everyone about that and see what they say. I am open to ideas to be sure.
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Sorry but I think the side was short changed already with late orders. This problem is a squad failure, not a side failure, punish the squad.
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I know I thought of that that, but how short of kicking them out? I don't want to kick a squad out for just late orders unless they have done it in the past or they are so late that someone else ends up having to do them, (and they essentially don't do them).
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NP DD, I feel my orders going out on Thursday afternoon was due to my inexperience in putting orders together. It was my first time and I had quite a few questions that got answered within a day or so. I don't expect the same next time since I've been through it now.
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Should not be any punishment as this will not lead to growth of then events IMO.
It seems to go pretty well as long as we have em by Thursday evening. Now if the side CO only starts them Thursday then I think the side may be affected a little. Just get em done guys!
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I have never been a fan of making the whole class stay inside for recess, because "Bobby shot a spit wad". Personally I think "penalties" should be directed at those who commit the offence.
Although I like the idea of the AH CM Team buying everyone Beer, if the arena is not set correctly :lol
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Perhaps instead of inflicting punishment we should provide incentive.
Example: My CO Tracerx is to be frame CO for the next frame of Event "X". If he is able to have his orders out by Wed. night (or what ever night it is expected) of that week, His squad (USMC) will have the first choice of aircraft in the next Frame.
A few particulars would have to be worked out, but it is a doable idea.
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NP DD, I feel my orders going out on Thursday afternoon was due to my inexperience in putting orders together. It was my first time and I had quite a few questions that got answered within a day or so. I don't expect the same next time since I've been through it now.
"I think we should take" Jambu "outback and beat the S$$T out of Him."
LOL, OK quick! Name that movie!
:aok
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Should not be any punishment as this will not lead to growth of then events IMO.
Goose are you willing to put 200 people on hold ever few weeks? I am not. We have to address this or you can expect a canceled Squad Ops at least every couple of months. Thursday evening is late IMHO and the rules have always stated by Wed. Been this way for years. Many squads like to practice their ride before Friday night.
I have never been a fan of making the whole class stay inside for recess, because "Bobby shot a spit wad". Personally I think "penalties" should be directed at those who commit the offence.
Although I like the idea of the AH CM Team buying everyone Beer, if the arena is not set correctly
LOL I will tell the Setup CM’s that. :) I hear you sled, but the problem with just kicking out the C.O. and X.O. is then you have a leaderless squad in Squad Ops. We would then have to dig up e-mails of the other squadies and try to find two other guys that would lead. That is a lot of extra foot work for us when it is not our responsibility. Kicking out a squad is not my favorite choice, but unless we come up with another that would work we are stuck with it.
Example: My CO Tracerx is to be frame CO for the next frame of Event "X". If he is able to have his orders out by Wed. night (or what ever night it is expected) of that week, His squad (USMC) will have the first choice of aircraft in the next Frame.
A few particulars would have to be worked out, but it is a doable idea.
That would work on paper to be sure. Problem is you are assuming the next Frame C.O. will be Johnny quick on the next set of orders and e-mail all the squads asking what ride they want. That does not happen ever time despite it being listed in the 8 Steps to be a Frame. C.O. Also what if the Frame C.O. does not even ask them and he then shoots out the orders Thursday night and the Squad that was told it would get their first choice gets stick with Ju-87’s and they wanted a 109 ride. Then we have to deal with communicating with the Frame C.O. he has to change his orders, we have to deal with the squad that did not get the ride they want. All this would have to be changed “before” the event. It is not that easy. :(
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This one is kinda hard to address. If a person is not motivated to make sure the orders assignment is filled to honor their committment and avoid the disappointment of 100+ comrades who are expecting some leadership, I don't know what else would do the trick. I think the honor system is going to have to remain the primary cause to fulfill the assignment. Any other incentive is purely secondary in my mind.
Dtango, this observation is not directed at you, I read your explanation for the orders delay and accept that. I think that we are a fairly close community here, and generally seek the approval of our peers. I think we should all take extra care to make sure our committments are met for the sake of others, and the CM staff in particular.
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One other observation. As a CO, the hardest week for me to produce orders for is Frame 1 of an event because you get the shortest notice. Once or twice, I didn't find out that I was CO until the day the new orders came out. I had to drop everything to produce the orders. I know that the side assignments is the reason the schedule can't be made weeks in advance, but should we expect to have the side and CO assignments out by the start of the bye week IE: by this weekend for the next event?
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And here we are again, Thursday with no orders, no Idea what we are flying or even what side we are on. I like to and I am sure other squads also would like to get there squads together and make a practice run or two before FSO but when you receive your orders late Thursday or Friday night that is usually not possible. I am in no position to make any judement as to how long it should take to get the orders out because I have never done it. But if I had my choice I would like to receive them by Wed. at the latest.
Just my 2 ¢...
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BBQ this is our week off. Squad Ops generally runs 3 weeks on then 1 week off. The next Squad Ops starts on April 1st. :)
Also, it is only Wed. ;)
Good point tracer. Frame 1 could be short notice for some.
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Doh ! :eek:
Nevermind then :D
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Originally posted by Sled
"I think we should take" Jambu "outback and beat the S$$T out of Him."
Thanks Sled... I have been duly thrashed... :D
I think the biggest problem with first timers in general is (by experience) I put way too much time into my planning. To be totally honest: I could have had mine out by Wednesday, but actually forgot about the out by Wednesday rule. My bad either way! Won't happen next time as soon as my wounds from Sled heal... :lol
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Frame 1 orders will go out this Sunday and who ever I assign should have pleanty of time and no excuses
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Originally posted by DOWjambu I think the biggest problem with first timers in general is (by experience) I put way too much time into my planning. [/B]
I don't think you can put too much time into the orders. I like to put an ineficiently large number of hours into my orders, and I have been doing this for a while. My process is to have a few strategicly minded individuals in the squad look at the orders, and then we have a discussion on the best plan of attack and expected responses from the other side. A lot of the time, the best plan comes out early, but sometimes it takes a few revisions until we get the best plan together. Then it usually takes me a full night to type up the orders. I have never gotten orders out in one day, and I don't think I would ever try unless I had to.
The most time consuming part is making flight assignments. Sometimes I actually fly the routes I assign to make sure I have the cruise alt, plane performance, and fuel/ord. loadouts right. This is where I uncover when I have inadvertantly tried to put a square peg in a round hole.
In short, I don't think anyone should feel like they spend too much time on the orders. I take it for granted that whoever does the orders has considered more than just which squad should hit which target.
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That would work on paper to be sure. Problem is you are assuming the next Frame C.O. will be Johnny quick on the next set of orders and e-mail all the squads asking what ride they want. That does not happen ever time despite it being listed in the 8 Steps to be a Frame. C.O. Also what if the Frame C.O. does not even ask them and he then shoots out the orders Thursday night and the Squad that was told it would get their first choice gets stick with Ju-87’s and they wanted a 109 ride. Then we have to deal with communicating with the Frame C.O. he has to change his orders, we have to deal with the squad that did not get the ride they want. All this would have to be changed “before” the event. It is not that easy.
:lol Yeah, I guess your right. All solutions have problems, The trick is to find a solution that doesn't cause more problems than it solves.
:lol It sounded like a good idea at the time, but I don't how many Beers I had when I thought of it. :lol
(does that mean that Jambu is going to take ME out back now?):eek:
This is a tough issue. It seems to me we have 4 choices (maybe more)
1. Punish XO and CO of offending Squad.
2. Punish the whole offending Squad. (been done)
3. Punish the whole side (Axis or Allied) in that frame. (points subtracted)
4. Find some type of incentive, for completing orders on time.
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"I think we should take" Jambu "outback and beat the S$$T out of Him."
Nobody knows what movie I got that Quote from?
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Originally posted by TracerX
I don't think you can put too much time into the orders. I like to put an ineficiently large number of hours into my orders
Some of the things I did took more time than they needed to. I agree TracerX a significant amount of time is required for proper planning. I also sent plans to squaddies for suggestions and flew routes to make sure fuel or landscape would not be a problem. This allowed me to be more specific in my orders (i.e. flying around objects or over mountains going noe, etc.) and I will do that again. Being new to the planning process though had other questions that popped up that I emailed for answers. KO was very prompt in getting the answers back, but then after more planning - more questions popped up... I'm sure he got tired of my emails :D Now I know that info up front and that will save a ton of time.
I am really enjoying Special Ops and give credit to dd, ko & sikboy for keeping things going!