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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Tarmac on March 17, 2005, 07:43:45 PM

Title: Nuke and other modelers - airbrush questions
Post by: Tarmac on March 17, 2005, 07:43:45 PM
After a looong break from model building, I'm going to get back into it, and hopefully do it the right way.  I've got all of my old supplies, and the next step is to get an airbrush so I can paint all those cool LW schemes.  

For an airbrush I think I'm going to go with an Iwata Eclipse, based on the opinion of the guy at the hobby store.  For a compressor, I'm not sure what's best though.  Does a regular shop compressor work well?  Or is there something special about those little hobby compressors?  I'd like to have something that I can charge up and then run off stored pressure late at night, without the noise of the compressor itself running.

Any thoughts or recommendations?
Title: Nuke and other modelers - airbrush questions
Post by: Shane on March 17, 2005, 08:19:11 PM
avoid the over-priced "little hobby shop compressors" they're way over-rated, basically you're just paying for the "hobby" name/cachet.

use a regular shop compressor, make sure you have a regulator, a moisture trap (2 would be best, one at tank, one inline) and in the best of all worlds a reserve tank of 2-8lbs. of course for what you're describing you're gonna want one with as big a reserve tank as you can manage.

the reason for the regulator is simple, most airbrushing is done between 10 - 30psi depending on the viscosity of the paint you're using and the task you're performing with it.

walmart usually has a decent small-ish sized compressor for around $80.

as for the airbursh itself, people all have their favorites they swear by.  i've read good things about iwata. i have a badger double-action adjustable nozzle (anthem model) that i'm pretty happy with.

have fun.

as for other things related to modeling... whew... hehe...

try these as a good start:

http://www.hyperscale.com/
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/  (esp the tool/tips)
http://modelingmadness.com/
http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/
Title: Nuke and other modelers - airbrush questions
Post by: NUKE on March 17, 2005, 08:42:51 PM
That's a great airbrush. I have one by the same company.

Like shane said: don't buy the little hobby compressor but also,  you  don't need some 5hp monster either. Also, like Shane said, you need a regulater and a moisture trap.

Usually, you will pay more if you want a super quiet one. The one I have is a little on the noisy side and only has a 2 gallon tank, so it will power on about every 30 mins or while in use.
Title: Nuke and other modelers - airbrush questions
Post by: Simaril on March 17, 2005, 09:41:43 PM
I got a sears ?5gal one years ago, and picked up the regulator separately. I charge it when needed, and can silently use in when family members are asleep. Can get 3-4 moderate sessions out of one pump run, using a separate electric air pump to get the tank pressure up to >50 PSI. My pump is almsot intolerably noisy, though -- would have done that differently. I use a Badger single action for large areas, and an Aztek double action that I honestly regret getting. Their nozzle system is a pain, and the brush is ahrd to clean.

Paul Boyer at FSM is an advocate of getting standard compressed CO2 cannisters charged at an industrial supplier. Says he can get weeks worth of silent use out of one charge, and the cost is negligible once you've got the cannister.  Never looked into that, though.





Truthfully, AH has pulled me away from modelling for a good while -- you're getting the guilt meter rising, all those boxes in the closet....
Title: Nuke and other modelers - airbrush questions
Post by: Tarmac on March 17, 2005, 10:07:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Simaril
Paul Boyer at FSM is an advocate of getting standard compressed CO2 cannisters charged at an industrial supplier. Says he can get weeks worth of silent use out of one charge, and the cost is negligible once you've got the cannister.  Never looked into that, though.


Never thought about that.  What kind of adapters and appliances would you need for that?  I have a ton of paintball CO2 cylinders lying around and I can get supercheap refills.  

I'd be worried about sucking liquid CO2 through the airbrush, though.
Title: Nuke and other modelers - airbrush questions
Post by: Pongo on March 17, 2005, 10:14:19 PM
I like shanes idea on the compressor. Most hobby ones suck.
Title: Nuke and other modelers - airbrush questions
Post by: Heretic on March 18, 2005, 12:30:13 AM
Do NOT get a hobby shop compressor.  

I have a Campbell Hausfield 2 Gal. that I bought at Wal-Mart for like $80.   It works great for my Iwata Eclipse HP-CS blowgun.

I use mine for my own handcarved cork duck decoys.   I use Chroma airbrush paint.  Water based.


Make sure you airbrush in a very well ventilated area if using laquers.   IE........Testors model paints.
Title: Nuke and other modelers - airbrush questions
Post by: NUKE on March 18, 2005, 12:35:08 AM
Tarmac, you have to try the Tamiya acrylic paints.....just great paint. The only thing is that you need to mix them to get a lot of colors you need......but luckily, there is a Tamiya paint conversion/mix chart on the internet for that.

The stuff cleans easy and you can remove a whole paintjob with rubbing alcohol if needed.
Title: Nuke and other modelers - airbrush questions
Post by: indy007 on March 18, 2005, 07:58:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Tarmac
Never thought about that.  What kind of adapters and appliances would you need for that?  I have a ton of paintball CO2 cylinders lying around and I can get supercheap refills.  

I'd be worried about sucking liquid CO2 through the airbrush, though.


You can get a bulk tank without a siphon tube I believe. Just keep it chained to the wall or whatever standing upright and you'll be fine. If you're still concerned, add an expansion valve inline. For normal paintball co2 tanks, make sure they don't have an anti-siphon tube and leave them standing upright. An anti-siphon tube runs from the valve to the "top" of the tank. The top being whatever side is on top when the tank is completely screwed into your marker.

I'd recommand nitrogen or HPA myself, simply because it only has 2 downsides & alot of benefits over co2 (it expands faster, doesn't get affected by temperatures like co2, no liqud, etc, etc). The downsides are initial cost of the bottle. Glass-wrapped nitro bottles aren't cheap, and you also don't get the same PE from a 68ci 4500psi nitrogen or HPA as you would a 20oz co2 bottle.
Title: Nuke and other modelers - airbrush questions
Post by: ChickenHawk on March 18, 2005, 11:12:58 AM
Can you use a shop compressor in the house or do you need to set up a work area in a garage/shop?  

Someone gave me a small pump that used to be used to blow up soccer balls and it just doesn't give me enough pressure for my airbrush.

Need something I can use in my study though.
Title: Nuke and other modelers - airbrush questions
Post by: Gunthr on March 18, 2005, 11:25:03 AM
Something else to consider if you  are a diver - you can buy components that allow you to use your scuba tank. You can do it for about $160. I don't know how well it would work in your application, but I would think it would be no problem. And silent. But if you don't own a scuba tank already, or plan to buy one anyway, forget it.

http://www.saltypig.com/scuba/
Title: Nuke and other modelers - airbrush questions
Post by: capt. apathy on March 18, 2005, 12:46:34 PM
for any kind of painting you want to buy an oil-less compressor.  they wear out faster but are much cheaper and won't contaminate your paint.  

that CO2 idea is pretty cool.  you shouldn't have to worry about blowing CO2 vapor at the draw an airbrush would pull, as long as you keep the bottle up-right.
Title: Nuke and other modelers - airbrush questions
Post by: NUTTZ on March 18, 2005, 01:11:11 PM
Since I Arbrush for a living I could give you some advice.  The smaller air compressers suck. you can use CO2 tanks w/ a regulator, I use old CO2 tanks that carbonate the soda. You can get them refilled for like 10 bucks.

IF the compressor is in the  same room they have compressors that work like a refigerator compressor they are really quiet and work well ( non piston) but they are pretty pricey. You don't want canned air they sell in the hobbie shops. Sears has some pretty cheap piston type compressors that will do a hobbiest well.

You want a compressor with a storage tank, they come in many size tanks.

NUTTZ
Title: Nuke and other modelers - airbrush questions
Post by: Tarmac on March 18, 2005, 04:34:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
Tarmac, you have to try the Tamiya acrylic paints.....just great paint. The only thing is that you need to mix them to get a lot of colors you need......but luckily, there is a Tamiya paint conversion/mix chart on the internet for that.

The stuff cleans easy and you can remove a whole paintjob with rubbing alcohol if needed.


I've been using the Tamiya acrylics ever since I graduated from the Testor's enamels.  I use them mostly for pewter miniatures.  Of course, I've never used them in an airbrush, but I understand they're the way to go.  Do you have a link for that mix chart?

As for a compressor, I think I'll head down to Sears and see how much a Craftsman compressor would be with all the moisture traps and stuff.
Title: Nuke and other modelers - airbrush questions
Post by: Sixpence on March 19, 2005, 01:46:45 AM
Would this compressor work? http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&pid=00915310000&subcat=Portable+Tank+Compressors
Title: Nuke and other modelers - airbrush questions
Post by: capt. apathy on March 19, 2005, 02:30:33 AM
I'd go with a cheaper, oil-less design.

this kind is better for tools (that can use the occasional bit of oil that makes it into the air), and it lasts much longer, than the oil-less types.

but they are cheaper and you don't oil them so there's no oil to contaminate your paint
Title: Nuke and other modelers - airbrush questions
Post by: Sixpence on March 19, 2005, 03:05:37 AM
Quote
Originally posted by capt. apathy
I'd go with a cheaper, oil-less design.

this kind is better for tools (that can use the occasional bit of oil that makes it into the air), and it lasts much longer, than the oil-less types.

but they are cheaper and you don't oil them so there's no oil to contaminate your paint


That's the cheapest I found at sears, i'll look around
Title: Nuke and other modelers - airbrush questions
Post by: Sixpence on March 19, 2005, 03:13:13 AM
Ok, this? http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1336659

Found this, but over a hundred bucks  http://airbrush-depot.com/scripts/depot.exe?pgm=compress.bbx
Title: Nuke and other modelers - airbrush questions
Post by: DREDIOCK on March 19, 2005, 07:55:06 AM
Damn,

Been a long long time since I've done any modeling

what ever happened to a good old fashoned can of spray paint and a wad of cotton to do camoflage with?

You guys are out there LOL
Title: Nuke and other modelers - airbrush questions
Post by: airbumba on March 19, 2005, 10:39:46 AM
My bro made one outta a car AC compressor, noisy as heck if on a hard surface tho.

Nuttz, could u please email me your addy, I'm just taking up painting and I'm doing my first one using brush and acrylics. But I'd like to make some cuttouts/stencils, and was wonderin about that tacky see thru stuff they use in airbrushing.

I have a few questions, if you have the time. Thanks .

airbumba@yahoo.ca
Title: Nuke and other modelers - airbrush questions
Post by: Soda on March 19, 2005, 12:42:57 PM
I recently (Xmas) upgraded from a Aztec A380 to an A7778 and really like the new brush.  The weight took a bit to get used to but I don't find the tips a problem unless I don't clean them properly after use.  Found the weight of the A777 really makes a difference for my accuracy/control, it's less likely to deviate from what I want based on drag from the airline and such.

-Soda
Title: Nuke and other modelers - airbrush questions
Post by: MrCoffee on March 19, 2005, 02:06:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Sixpence
Would this compressor work? http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&pid=00915310000&subcat=Portable+Tank+Compressors


yep thats whay Id get, life time warranty and its not to expensive. Also can use that compressor for other tasks. The small and expensive compressors are for indoor use because theyre quite and dont have a pulse signal. If you get an air compressor with a an air tank, you can avoid the air pulse signal. Once the tank is pressurized, then its quite. Average airbrush pressure is about 40-50 psi same as a car tire and get a good water trap.
Title: Nuke and other modelers - airbrush questions
Post by: NUTTZ on March 19, 2005, 02:14:18 PM
Yes, it will work fine

NUTTZ


Quote
Originally posted by Sixpence
Would this compressor work? http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&pid=00915310000&subcat=Portable+Tank+Compressors
Title: Nuke and other modelers - airbrush questions
Post by: NUTTZ on March 19, 2005, 02:18:51 PM
Sure, Graphixone@verizon.net is my addy.

We used to be called Custom Airbrush for 18 years, 2 locations In philadelphia.

I have MANY copies of airbrush action magazines we used to sell in our stores , so I have multiple copies of older issues In mint condition.

We used Iwata airbrushes the tip can screw off for even finer detail ( but exposes the needle) so be carful when using.

NUTTZ

Quote
Originally posted by airbumba
My bro made one outta a car AC compressor, noisy as heck if on a hard surface tho.

Nuttz, could u please email me your addy, I'm just taking up painting and I'm doing my first one using brush and acrylics. But I'd like to make some cuttouts/stencils, and was wonderin about that tacky see thru stuff they use in airbrushing.

I have a few questions, if you have the time. Thanks .

airbumba@yahoo.ca
Title: Nuke and other modelers - airbrush questions
Post by: NUTTZ on March 19, 2005, 02:25:08 PM
No on both of these.  The more expensive piston compressor ( 2nd choice) we call "DOGS" they bounce around ,make alot of noise until they come to the end of their lease( power cord) and unplug themselves. Your air supply is the heart of airbrushing. Overpowering is a good thing. While modeling a hard surface you would expect to have a very low air pressure to eliminate over spray, but we spray with 90 PSI and use less paint and get much finer and detailed results. Of course we are professionals, and have years of experience. It's not at all hard to airbrush, you just need an airbrush your comfortable with and with time you'll get better.
I cannot stress the importance of your power supply, don't go cheap, you can always use it to power air tools for easy home/car repairs.


NUTTZ

Quote
Originally posted by Sixpence
Ok, this? http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1336659

Found this, but over a hundred bucks  http://airbrush-depot.com/scripts/depot.exe?pgm=compress.bbx
Title: Nuke and other modelers - airbrush questions
Post by: MrCoffee on March 19, 2005, 02:29:17 PM
you build some nice models nuke. 90 psi seems alot for pressure but then the airbrushes have improved alot.  :) With my pasche, think the needle would of shot out at 90psi.
Title: Nuke and other modelers - airbrush questions
Post by: wazimada on March 19, 2005, 02:54:37 PM
this is meh airbrush brand for 50 years, superior pruduct and value.

http://www.rainbowten.co.jp/english/gunzeproducts.htm
Title: Nuke and other modelers - airbrush questions
Post by: GRUNHERZ on March 19, 2005, 04:00:26 PM
Iwata Eclipse is a great brush.  Definitely get the gravity feed version HP-CS because they are much easier to use and maintain while delivering a finer result due to lower airpressure requirments.

Do get a shop compressor instead of the little hobby shop ones.  If the tank is big enough you can go on for a long time, especially since the Iwatas run on so little pressure.

Also remember to get a moisture trap to remove water from the compressed air so it doesnt spoil your finish with water droplets.

My favorite brand of paint are Gunze Sangyo Acrylics and Tamiya acrlyics are second.  Thin them 50/50 with cheap 91% isopropyl rubbing alcohol and clean your brush with windex and it shpould give you a long time of reliable and cheap use with those thinners/cleaners.
Title: Nuke and other modelers - airbrush questions
Post by: Sixpence on March 19, 2005, 04:03:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by NUTTZ
Yes, it will work fine

NUTTZ


I also found this one, it says oil free and someone mentioned no oil compressors better? http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&pid=00915350000
Title: Nuke and other modelers - airbrush questions
Post by: indy007 on March 21, 2005, 08:43:52 AM
You people make me feel old fashioned. I've painted hundreds of infantry & dozens of tanks for Warhammer 40k (37mm scale), but never used an air brush. Slap on a basecoat of white (since it makes details the most vivid) and do all the blending & feathering by hand.

What do y'all do for your weathering? Best results I ever got were using normally drywall spackle(sp?), mixing in brown paint, and using a toothbrush to splatter it on the tanks & transports. Then highlight with various shades of lighter browns once it dried. Worked really good, but anybody have any other clever techniques?
Title: Nuke and other modelers - airbrush questions
Post by: Suave on June 12, 2006, 03:49:23 AM
I came accross some of those warhammer miniatures on an AFV modeler website. Thought they were really cool so i checked the warhammer 40k webpage. Spent like 2 hours there diggin' all the miniatures. They're extra neato but I just didn't have a desire to get into miniature wargaming. Then I thought damn wish there was a pc game for warhammer 40k. Then I found that there is! So I went and bought it yesterday.