Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: SunTracker on March 18, 2005, 04:48:36 AM
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China is estimated to surpass the U.S. economy in 2030.
In my state, higher education (University) costs $650 per class. Would it not be beneficial to provide free college to everyone in order to boost our economy? India has provided a free college education to anyone who majors in Computer Science. Low and behold, all of our computer tech jobs have been outsourced to India.
Why is the United States squandering all this money on Iraq when we are losing our competitive edge on the rest of the World? A large segment of the U.S. population is uneducated and obese. This equals low productivity.
The U.S. cant keep exporting jobs and importing goods and expect to be ahead of the rest of the World. Right now, the U.S. is the leader in aircraft exports and software exports. The majority of our economy is services, not goods.
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I think the general standards of education tends to be higher in countries where it's free.
Then again the level of the top institutions tends to be higher in countries where it's not free.
I think an ideal solution would be a system where the student would be paying something like 30% of the education. That would be more motivating than a totally free education.
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I think we have quite enough semi-career college students.
A lot of these spend a great deal of their life doing nothing but going to college.
Great for doctors, lawyers and such where it is required, but a big majority are just waisting time and resources , then go on to do something totaly different than what they are educated for.
You want better econmy in the U.S. ? Push for the return of the U.S., common day worker. Bring back the family farm. Put the U.S. dollar back in the U.S. Promote small business once again. Take back the trades from the cooperations and give the "little guy" a chance once more as it used to be. Bring back the family businesses and stop the large monopolies.
When you give the independent a chance once more instead of pushing him out of business you will see U.S. citizens using products, trades, etc produced by U.S. citizens.
We have way too many doing "make do" work now as it is IMHO.
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Originally posted by mora
I think the general standards of education tends to be higher in countries where it's free.
Then again the level of the top institutions tends to be higher in countries where it's not free.
I think an ideal solution would be a system where the student would be paying something like 30% of the education. That would be more motivating than a totally free education.
errrr it's not free. we have lots of expenses that would be shouldered by the tax payers.
furthermore it is not human nature to value things that cost little.
furthermore we need ditch diggers just as much if not more than china does.
I would agree with the student paying 70% and even then that is generous.
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Originally posted by storch
errrr it's not free. we have lots of expenses that would be shouldered by the tax payers.
furthermore it is not human nature to value things that cost little.
furthermore we need ditch diggers just as much if not more than china does.
I would agree with the student paying 70% and even then that is generous.
Yes, I understand very well that someone has to pay for it. I just prefer to be surrounded by people who are better educated than people in general in the US for example(opinion purely based on my own observations). I don't know what the effect of 'free' education would be on my taxes, but I would be willing to pay for a little for it.
I believe there are countries with a lower tax rate than the US which provide free education. Your taxes actually seem quite high compared to what you get.
I'm not a supporter of a leftist welfare state, but I make an exception when it comes to education.
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When the chinese worker wants more benefits and a higher standard of living, their cost will go up. When western nations finally figures out the the standard of living has to go down abit things will equalize themselves.
Ying/Yang ding dong
huh?
hang on..
doorbell I think
oh it was me :o
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Do you think that education is overpriced in the US just like medical care is? Are the education markets really free?
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What Nilsen said.
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Originally posted by mora
Do you think that education is overpriced in the US just like medical care is? Are the education markets really free?
since I have no basis for comparrisson I don't feel qualfied to answer. however attendance at a state university such as Florida International University is quite reasonable (around $7000.00 per anum for Florida residents). the curriculum is broad and the school is well respected. Compare that with $40,000 for the average private university and it seems to be a subsidized education. a degree in the the constuction related disciplines from FIU virtually guarantees you employment anywhere on earth. the school's alumnus is international scope with a large percentage of the students hailing from all over the world. it is an aptly named university. we have the added benefit here in Florida to participate in the prepaid college educational fund which allows me to pay for my child's education at today's costs in monthly installments and may be redeemed upon registration for a complete four year education. if the young adult decides not to attend university the money is returned to the parent but no interest is paid. finally there are outright grants and low interest loans that make a higher education available to all who want one. if one is uneducated in the United States it is because one chooses to be. as I did. :D
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Very interesting subject.
If we look back on history, as that is the only source of information to base assesments of the future from, no "super power" has ever remained a "super power" (be it military, economical or cultural).
If history repeats it self, as it always has, the US will not be the worlds leading economy and worlds leading military super power in a long term future. When that change happens and what country will take its place I cant say.
There are a few things that can be made to prolong/lessen the fall of US as the leading nation.
One thing has been mentioned, education. US education is very segregated atm. US has some of the best schools and some of the worst education in the western world. The "elite" is very good, the avg is not very good.
Complete oposite to sweden, where Im from. Here we have extreamly good avg level of education but the elite level (for lack of better words) is not as good as in the US.
We have free college education which means that everyone has an equal opportunity to a degree but at the same time it means that the top schools dont have the resources to compete with top international schools. While our top colleges are good on a european level they arnt "elite".
Education is always key to a countries evolution (yes it is constant evolution).
US has a definate problem in its education system as way too many americans have too low level of education.
Another problem the US has to deal with is crim. Crim levels in the US are very high and need to be contained and lowered.
Next problem is healthcare. Physical and mental health of a countries labour force is crusial to the long term sucess of a country.
Millitary expences is another problem. Im not in a mood to discuss US foreign politics in this thread but when spendings on the millitary put a nation in debt there is a problem.
Budget deficit means less budget for education, healthcare, crime containment and infrastructure. But it also means less cashflow from public sector to private sector (except for millitary industry). This in turn hurts the revenue of the "civilian" companies in the nation and hence slows down the economy. This resulting in lower exchange rates for the countries currancy.
A low exchange rate on the US dollar makes US companies much more exposed for international takeovers. International takeovers on US companies in the long term means less security to the US economy.
Siemens buying IBM and moving research, development and production to a baltic state isnt as far fetched as you might think. Especially with the USD nearing a all time low (not all time but modern days).
Considering this you americans really should appricate what you have and be HUMBLE about what you have. The more humble you is the less likely other people are to feel the need to take it away from you.
Tex
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I would never be against funded education, but first it must be proven that what we pay for is education and not indoctrination.
Having a couple family members that are long term education employees, their biggest gripe is that most teachers teach their personal doctrines and ideals rather than curricula.
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When CEO of Chrysler Lee Iacocca pulled the firm out of its nose dive in the early 1980s, he gave the workers a 2-line pep talk: "I've got any number of jobs here at $17/hr; I've got none at $20/hr."
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Jesus Beetle, change the fricken record. You think the UK or the West would be better placed to deal with Chinas burgeoning growth if our miners still died in huge numbers like theirs? Wait of course not, Thatcher decided it was cheaper to import.
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I think that there will allways be room in our standard of living to make us comfortable. I am not so much concerned about being number one. I would rather have a somewhat lower standard of living and live in the United States as an American than to have that same standard and live anywhere else.
It's a bigt country with good weather somewhere in it all the time... lots to do and see and not crowded...A nightmare for me would be to be trapped in a big city or tiny island.
lazs
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Originally posted by TexMurphy
Very interesting subject.
If we look back on history, as that is the only source of information to base assesments of the future from, no "super power" has ever remained a "super power" (be it military, economical or cultural).
If history repeats it self, as it always has, the US will not be the worlds leading economy and worlds leading military super power in a long term future. When that change happens and what country will take its place I cant say.
There are a few things that can be made to prolong/lessen the fall of US as the leading nation.
One thing has been mentioned, education. US education is very segregated atm. US has some of the best schools and some of the worst education in the western world. The "elite" is very good, the avg is not very good.
Complete oposite to sweden, where Im from. Here we have extreamly good avg level of education but the elite level (for lack of better words) is not as good as in the US.
We have free college education which means that everyone has an equal opportunity to a degree but at the same time it means that the top schools dont have the resources to compete with top international schools. While our top colleges are good on a european level they arnt "elite".
Education is always key to a countries evolution (yes it is constant evolution).
US has a definate problem in its education system as way too many americans have too low level of education.
Another problem the US has to deal with is crim. Crim levels in the US are very high and need to be contained and lowered.
Next problem is healthcare. Physical and mental health of a countries labour force is crusial to the long term sucess of a country.
Millitary expences is another problem. Im not in a mood to discuss US foreign politics in this thread but when spendings on the millitary put a nation in debt there is a problem.
Budget deficit means less budget for education, healthcare, crime containment and infrastructure. But it also means less cashflow from public sector to private sector (except for millitary industry). This in turn hurts the revenue of the "civilian" companies in the nation and hence slows down the economy. This resulting in lower exchange rates for the countries currancy.
A low exchange rate on the US dollar makes US companies much more exposed for international takeovers. International takeovers on US companies in the long term means less security to the US economy.
Siemens buying IBM and moving research, development and production to a baltic state isnt as far fetched as you might think. Especially with the USD nearing a all time low (not all time but modern days).
Considering this you americans really should appricate what you have and be HUMBLE about what you have. The more humble you is the less likely other people are to feel the need to take it away from you.
Tex
you make some valid points. I think that America has become efeminized as has the rest of the west. efeminization or the blurring of what it means to be a man leads to downfall. empires are held together by the sword if no one is willing to wield the sword another will step into the void. that is what I derive from history. however we are at a point in human developement that adds new variable to the age old equation and that variable is our technological advancements in the 20th century and the ones forthcoming. I am certain we will see a global governmental system. we may even see it in our lifetime. in any event we will be one people governed globally within two generations. that is human nature. when that does occur it will ultimately be tyranny. that is also human nature. from that point forward what you believe happens will depend on your belief system as opposed to any historical paradigms. as for myself I hope I never see it.
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Originally posted by storch
furthermore we need ditch diggers just as much if not more than china does.
That would be a heavy equipment operator.
At least until we can get more Chinese into the country to dig the ditchs and save the money for the CEOs of the construction companies.
The good old days of the Robber Barons:eek:
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It has been my experiance in dealing with people that items or education for free is appreciated for it's cost, nothing. They also tend to value it for the same value. If you want a student to appreciate and actually learn, the worst thing you can do is to make it free.