Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Sandman on March 18, 2005, 12:05:17 PM
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linkage (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=564&ncid=564&e=1&u=/nm/20050318/ts_nm/rights_schiavo_congress_dc_14)
This is ridiculous.
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I dont agree in this case.
The husband is a a scumbag. The family is begging for her life, and claims she is not a vegatable.
hubby bellybutton wont let other doctors see the women.
He also has a new women and kids.
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watch the videos of her...
sure looks to me like she is making facial gestures.
and what sick wacko wants to purposely make his ex-wife starve to death?
dont kid yourself thats the skinny of it, he wants to have her feeding tube removed and it will take up to 3 weeks for her to die.
if she can conciously feel anything, imagine the pain of starving to death.
i was going to post a thread about this saying horray for the government finally acting with some sence, but it would just look like another anti-liberal rant of mine.
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some interesting quotes from Michael Schiavo here:
http://www.useless-knowledge.com/1234/mar/article245.html
From the trial. ('A' is Michael speaking.)
A Right here, basically, you can see she's dressed, she's already had her shower and everything. We would get her dressed, put her shoes and socks on. I'm trying out her hands there. You have to keep the inside of the hands, since she's contracted, you have to keep them dry because infection can set in, and I usually do a little bit of range motion with her.
Q. And while you're doing that, do you talk to her?
A. Yes, I am talking to her right now telling her it's okay.
Q. She doesn't like that very much?
A. No, she doesn't. She does feel pain.
And then a few sentences later from the trial :-
Q. Does she like that kind of treatment very much?
A. No, she does not. .. .
Further on in the trial :-
Q. I notice Michael, you're holding her head back. Why are you doing that?
A. Because she'll fall forward, and if she falls fast she gets excited. It's - - I was told by a doctor she was getting the feeling she's falling.
The video then shows a physical therapist working with Terri:-
Q. Does she express discomfort when some of these things are happening to her?
A. Yes. Yes, she does.
Q. How does she do that?
A. She'll moan and groan.
Michael said that Terri doesn't like her hands being stimulated and stretched. A person in PVS, is incapable of disliking something. To dislike something demonstrates cognitive ability and demonstrates that the person is not PVS.
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I thought it was a BRILLIANT move to give her a Subpeona. This way they can't harm or murder her.
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Originally posted by Sandman
linkage (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=564&ncid=564&e=1&u=/nm/20050318/ts_nm/rights_schiavo_congress_dc_14)
This is ridiculous.
Oh yes it is. A scumbucket hubby did not kill her 12 years ago, he waited for $2.2 mil and just now he remembers her saying "I would not want to live that way".
Why doesn't he just divorce her, and get the f* out of her life. Let her parents, $2.2 mil and when this runs out, the people of good will to take care of her. And yes, I am willing to contribute more money when the fund is exhausted. And I don't mean taxes, I'll write a personal check.
But if that was a turn of events, I mind you, he (the stinking MF) can't keep the money and that sucks, now doesn't it.
She might be brain damaged, but she is very much alive. She definitely has feelings, and I'm willing to accept that maybe she really wishes to be dead and I would not a problem with killing her then but not until we know for sure. Even then I would never just starve her to death. It just gives the f* hubby a good feeling that she went "naturally". Wanna kill her, be at least as compassionate as we are towards our mulitple killer, rapist and kanibals. Give her a lethal injection.
BTW, is it just me or is her face saying thanks and I love you?
One sick f* bastard (the "hubby" I mean).
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Nevermind all that.
Isn't this a state issue?
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Originally posted by Sandman
linkage (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=564&ncid=564&e=1&u=/nm/20050318/ts_nm/rights_schiavo_congress_dc_14)
This is ridiculous.
another downside is that if the Congress wastes their time on insignificant minutia like this, they won't have time to decide how fast we can drive or how much water we need to use to flush our toilets.
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The state is helping murder her.
I would much rather seem them do this then waste time on baseball.
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Torture Either way....
Lethal injection... quick and painless.. and both sides are happy cause A: Feeding tube never removed, B: Misery resolved.
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The family thinks rehab can help her. THEY do not want her to DIE.
Spaz.
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Rehab can not help someone who is vegitated...
They need to learn to let go, god I'd hate to see what they'd do to a dog that got hit by a car, and is alive yet, veggie..
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Thats the whole point, she is not in what most people think of as a vegititative state.
SHE respond to people. She smiles at her parents. Try learning a little about something before you spout off about it.
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poor hubby is between the devil and the deep, if he devorices her to marry his new GF he loses all the money,without the money he may lose his new GF.
it's only a doctors opinion that she is vegitated, and we all know doctors never make mistakes.
i had no opinion on this until some TV show had a women on who had been dianosed as vegitated, and her feeding tube was pulled.
she said she coud think,feel, ect, but she could not move or talk. when the docs stood at her bed and said she was a vegitatable, she was trying to tell them no but could not.
her tube was removed and she started to starve, she said it was horrable, he husband is a lawyer and sued to have the tube replaced.
she recovered and is normal except for some weakness on one side.
after i saw that i changed my mind, you never know.
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Originally posted by JB73
and what sick wacko wants to purposely make his ex-wife starve to death?
Ummm, have you ever met my ex-wife?
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This should never have reached the Federal level. Nonetheless, it has. The problem lies in florida's legal system.
Greer is in contempt of Congress, and I hope they nail him on it. He cannot okay having the tube removed if she has been called before Congress, he's overstepped his authority (not uncommon since judges now get to legislate from the bench). He needs to be removed from the bench and disbarred.
There is something seriously wrong going on. Her husband is obsessed with having her die. She had no living will. His word is not legal authority on which to discontinue life support, especially since life support ONLY includes the feeding tube.
It is a sad commentary on our society as a whole when murderers and child molesters cannot be executed without 20 years of appeals, but a helpless woman can be painfully starved to death over a period of days or weeks. This woman is going to die in a way that could only be classified as cruel, and equal to torture. You can't treat criminals or terrorists the way they will now treat her.
Personally I hope that her husband chokes on a freakin Big Mac this evening and ends up in the hospital needing the kind of care he refuses to allow his wife to have.
Judge Greer and Michael Schiavo should be locked in the room with her until the tube is reinserted or she dies. They need to bear personal witness to the results of their actions for however long it takes. Give them 4 ounces of water and a multivitamin per day and nothing else while they're there.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
I thought it was a BRILLIANT move to give her a Subpeona. This way they can't harm or murder her.
Wrong. Judge Greer legislates from the bench, and feels he is not subject to the law and Congress. He ruled the tube could be removed regardless of Congress, and it was removed an hour or two ago. They should make him watch her die, and give him 4 ounces of water and one vitamin per day, as long as she lingers.
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Originally posted by JB73
and what sick wacko wants to purposely make his ex-wife starve to death?
dont kid yourself thats the skinny of it, he wants to have her feeding tube removed and it will take up to 3 weeks for her to die.
if she can conciously feel anything, imagine the pain of starving to death.
i was going to post a thread about this saying horray for the government finally acting with some sence, but it would just look like another anti-liberal rant of mine.
She's not his ex-wife, they're still married. He won't divorce her because if he does, he cannot have the money he got when he sued for malpractice. He promised in court to use every penny for her care and well being. Wonder how much of that money he's spent getting legal standing to starve her to death.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
.... He promised in court to use every penny for her care and well being....
... as long as she is alive.
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Hey Sandy
Where were you trying to go with that? Do you really think that Michael is right?
Don't bail now, say your spiel...
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
This should never have reached the Federal level. Nonetheless, it has. The problem lies in florida's legal system.
Greer is in contempt of Congress, and I hope they nail him on it. He cannot okay having the tube removed if she has been called before Congress, he's overstepped his authority (not uncommon since judges now get to legislate from the bench). He needs to be removed from the bench and disbarred.
There is something seriously wrong going on. Her husband is obsessed with having her die. She had no living will. His word is not legal authority on which to discontinue life support, especially since life support ONLY includes the feeding tube.
It is a sad commentary on our society as a whole when murderers and child molesters cannot be executed without 20 years of appeals, but a helpless woman can be painfully starved to death over a period of days or weeks. This woman is going to die in a way that could only be classified as cruel, and equal to torture. You can't treat criminals or terrorists the way they will now treat her.
Personally I hope that her husband chokes on a freakin Big Mac this evening and ends up in the hospital needing the kind of care he refuses to allow his wife to have.
Judge Greer and Michael Schiavo should be locked in the room with her until the tube is reinserted or she dies. They need to bear personal witness to the results of their actions for however long it takes. Give them 4 ounces of water and a multivitamin per day and nothing else while they're there.
I'm not defending anything, and I'm not saying this to take a side. But for one second, stop and think. You are saying the husband is obsessed over seeing her dead. What if he is telling the truth though, and he really believes his wife is in her own personal kind of Hell trapped inside her own head. What if he believes truly that the best way to show his love for her is to end her torture?
While I cant claim to know what anyone in this family is going through, I've been faced with the possibility of being invalid. Not nearly as serious as this poor woman's case, and I was capable of making my own decisions and speaking. Its still depressing as hell to have a doctor tell you there is a damn good chance you will spend the rest of your life in a wheelchair. Lucky for me, he was wrong (or I was too stubborn to accept it, either way it worked out in my favor). It definitely changed my outlook though, and gave me some sympathy for people who have been handicapped or made invalid who seek death. I never understood it before.
All I'm saying is, if it truly was her wish not to live if machines were required, it should be honored. And no matter what anyone thinks of him, without proof he is the monster you all claim he is, as her husband HE should be the one to make that decision, not her parents. Not us. Not politicians who want to get a vote out of appearing humanitarian. Even if she is not in a PVS, she is still severely brain damaged.
That said, you guys are probably right, he probably is a POS and this whole thing is probably just a sham for him to get the money. But it might not be, and then you are sticking your nose into the private life of a husband and wife and her wishes regarding her death. IMO thats just not something the public needs to be in.
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your giving the husband to much credit, there is to much showing he is slime.
He got a big malpractive settlement so he could take care of her, saying he wanted her to live, then get the money and no decided she told him she didnt want to live like this?
There is a pretty good change he did this to her.
he is slime and will not even let her parents bring in another doctor for another opinion, or give up gaurdian ship to them
Her parents never heard her say anything about pulling theplug. My parents and my GF know MY feelings on this.
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virgil... did they really remove the tube? link?
i hope those ******* burn in hell for doing that.
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Originally posted by JB73
virgil... did they really remove the tube? link?
i hope those ******* burn in hell for doing that.
Yes sir, they did. Check Fox (on their main page) or Drudge, or any other news source. Greer ruled about 1:30 EST or so, they did it almost immediately. He can't wait to have her dead. He can take the rest of the money and marry his new flame.
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The Congress getting involved turned a sad situation into a sad circus.
to them...
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judge greer could be in contempt of congress for interfearing with a federal witness.
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Originally posted by Nash
The Congress getting involved turned a sad situation into a sad circus.
to them...
amen
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Originally posted by GScholz
Why is her husband in "command" of her life? Only doctors should be able to determine whether to stop any form of treatment to preserve a life and the courts should decide, not the relatives who may or may not have other motives to do so.
Not in this country. The doctor is there to provide a service. It is not within their rights to decide. A doctor asks for permission to treat a patient... that's why we sign forms of consent.
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It's cases like this where the living will comes into play.
For example in my case I have in my living will that I am not to be kept alive in a vegetative state.
They may harvest any organs that are of use and then cremate me .
And I have left money for my best friend to take my ashes and his family to the British Virgin Islands where he will dump my ashes over the wreck of the R.M.S Rhone.
You really cant spell it out too clear It has to be obvious to everyone involved that this is how you wish to go out of this world.
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The level of stupidity in this case is incredible. Especially from those who get their info from Rush and Drudge.
1. The quotes were from a 1992 trial... that was 13 years ago! Do ya think maybe she has debilitated a little since then?
2. She was anorexic. The same potassium imbalance killed Karen Carpenter and the wife of James Michner. (Who also pulled the plug after a long wait.)
3. He (the husband) has been offered up to 10 million dollars to let her live. He isn't doing this for the money.
4. He has had the same goal from the beginning because he claims that it was his wife's wish.
5. Personal freedom... If he is right about her wish, then we (the State or the Feds) need to stay the hell out of it.
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"to the British Virgin Islands where he will dump my ashes over the wreck of the R.M.S Rhone."
interesting choice.. may we know why? if its not too personal that is.
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MT is right on the mark. I agree totally. Without the "miracles" of modern medicine, this woman's suffering would have ended long ago...
As I said in an earlier post, death is not always a curse. Instead of just allowing nature to take its' course, some of us have got to make a morality issue out of her condition.
This isn't about what her husband wants or her parents want but about what is right for her. She's been in this state for 15 years for Heaven's sake! How much longer must she endure this before someone decides that enough is enough and ALLOWS her to die?
By the way, did you realize that most of us who live to be elderly will eventually die of starvation? It isn't just a cliche when you hear someone state that an elderly friend or parent "wasted away." Debilitating illnesses often rob the aged of the ability and the desire to eat...so they starve to death.
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Anyone done any real researching of the claims that hubby Mike beat the krap out of her and doesn't want her talking ever again?
The main evidence comes from a bone scan taken on March 5, 1991. As Terri’s guardian, Michael Schiavo denied her family access to Terri’s records, the results of which were not made available until November, 2002. This scan indicated numerous broken bones in various stages of healing, including compressions fractures, a broken back, pelvis, ankle, bone bruises and ossifications.
Board certified radiologist Dr. Walker read the scan in 1991 and interpreted the results as abnormal, which he attributed to either an accident or earlier trauma. Based on the remodeling process of her bones, Dr. Walker stated in his deposition that a) the injuries indicated by the scan occurred on or around the time that Terri Schiavo collapsed; b) the abnormalities on the bone scan were not typical of someone suffering cardiac arrest and collapsing to the floor, and c) the fractures indicated by the bone scan are not typical of patients bedridden only thirteen months.
As recorded in Dr. Walker’s November 21, 2003 deposition, Terri might have been the victim of foul play via a blow to her body, being thrown into a sharp furniture corner, or assaulted with a blunt object
Apparently, he also wants the body cremated immediately, no autopsy.
Things that can make you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
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Originally posted by Toad
Anyone done any real researching of the claims that hubby Mike beat the krap out of her and doesn't want her talking ever again?
Apparently, he also wants the body cremated immediately, no autopsy.
Things that can make you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
I wonder if the family could sue for wrongful death in civil court?
Hey, if all else fails, maybe we can start starving criminals!!
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"U.S. Congress poised to intervene in right-to-die case
Last Updated Sun, 20 Mar 2005 00:36:45 EST
CBC News
CRAWFORD, TEXAS - The U.S. president is interrupting a vacation to fly to Washington on Sunday so he can be available to sign emergency legislation that will keep a brain-damaged Florida woman alive.
President George W. Bush's abrupt change of schedule was announced late Saturday after the House and Senate agreed on the legislation, which would put Terri Schiavo back on a feeding tube while a federal court hears her case.
On Friday, a judge ordered the tube removed from the 41-year-old, who has been in what doctors call a persistent vegetative state for 15 years. Without the tube, she will die within two weeks.
Members of the House hope to approve the legislation in a special session on Sunday. Bush decided he needed to interrupt his spring break in Texas so he could immediately sign the bill, White House press secretary Scott McClellan said.
"Everyone recognizes that time is important here," McClellan told reporters in Texas.
"This is about defending life."
The legislation echoes a Senate bill passed Thursday that would let a federal court review Florida state Judge George Greer's ruling in the Schiavo case.
Schiavo's husband, Michael, says she told him she would not want to be kept alive artificially, and he has been fighting in Florida courts for years for the right to remove her tube.
Her parents disagree that was her wish and say she could improve with proper treatment. They have the support of Florida Gov. Jeb Bush and many politicians, especially in the Republican Party.
Federal judges have twice turned down efforts by the parents to move the case out of Florida courts, citing a lack of jurisdiction.
Schiavo's feeding tube has been removed twice before, but later reinserted."
http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2005/03/19/schiavo-legislation050319.html
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since when have tax dollars been expected to work?
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The 10th Amendment
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Now how can anyone possibly argue that the Civil War was all about State's rights, and still think this (The Schaibo law) is a legitimate action by the Congress?
Careful where you step, it might be in your own BS.
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just another reason I am happy I vote Republican
WTG Bush!
no one's mentioned the scumbag hubby's gf and kid now have they?
wonder why.. He can't possibly want her dead for personal reasons could he?
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I vote Republican too...but this is a bad decision.
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Originally posted by Shuckins
I vote Republican too...but this is a bad decision.
why?
does the gov only state when you can kill? not when you can provide life?
You actually believe the hubby when he states it is his wife's wish to die?
I think it is his
two words:
living will - without one you are screwed
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I vote for who I think is best and I'm against this.
GtoRA2 if the husband was the scumbag you claimed and he was doing this just for the money then why did he offer to donate the rest of the money to a charity of her parents chosing? Why did he turn down $10 million to turn over rights to her to her parents?
No matter what the reasons are this in no way had anything to do with Congress OR Bush.
I just hope the Federal Judge has the brains AND balls to deny the case.
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The 10th Amendment
quote:
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The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
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Ah yeas- States rights are a valued Republican tenant- unless we're talking about gay marriage, abortion, or removing a feeding tube- in those cases States Rights are superceeded by Feds.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Now how can anyone possibly argue that the Civil War was all about State's rights, and still think this (The Schaibo law) is a legitimate action by the Congress?
Careful where you step, it might be in your own BS.
Since the Civil War, where States Rights were essentially discarded, that part of the Consitution has been nearly disregarded.
If you started to list all the area in which the Federal government has grabbed authority that was not expressly granted to them by the Consitution, the list would turn this into the biggest thread in history.
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"Bills of attainder, ex post facto laws, and laws impairing the obligations of contracts, are contrary to the first principles of the social compact, and to every principle of sound legislation. ... The sober people of America are weary of the fluctuating policy which has directed the public councils. They have seen with regret and indignation that sudden changes and legislative interferences, in cases affecting personal rights, become jobs in the hands of enterprising and influential speculators, and snares to the more-industrious and less-informed part of the community."
James Madison
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please post a link to the name of the person who offered $10 million to the hubby
I don't think there is one. Someone recently offered him a million but I think the 10 big ones was never named, maybe cause it never happened?
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I don't have a link because I saw it on the news.
They had said the total was up to $10 million not all from one individual .
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no names?
sounds like hot air
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Originally posted by Eagler
does the gov only state when you can kill? not when you can provide life?
by a stroke of his pen the gov/president can offer the clemency to the most vicious criminals but sparing a life of an innocent does not qualify?
The circumstances of the case seem very suspicious. It clearly looks like the hubby might have put her into this state to begin with and now is interested in only one thing. Get rid of the evidence. Money will come later. He can probably easily make millions by selling his "My life with Terri".
What triggers a criminal investigation is a shady cases like this?