Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Curval on March 18, 2005, 03:10:11 PM
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I'm looking for opinions.
This morning I coughed and almost passed out from pain. I ended up on the floor at home and felt very much like the "Help, I've fallen and can't get up" woman from the TV commercial. I ended up leaving work early after I laid down on the floor in my office to read a fax and had to call my secretary to help me get up.
I've been "living with" a back that has been bothering me for a number of years. I've had an MRI that shows that the first disk going up my spine has ruptured and is pushing against the siatic nerve. I figured I would "tough" it out and allow the disk to degenerate on its own and shrink back and away from the nerve, which will happen naturally I'm told.
But honestly I am now considering an operation. I've never felt pain like this before.
Almost everyone I have spoken to about this has told me NOT to let any doctors near my back with a sharp instrument. I've heard a number of horror stories. But I've also heard some very good stories about some people's experience.
What about you guys?
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you have a spine?
Just kidding Curval, sorry to hear about your back......sounds painful.
Hope it gets worked out.
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AVOID surgery at ALL costs.
Had an attempt to repair a ruptured disk in 01 from an 500 foot tumble down a back country chute, and it has never been the same, and in some cases the new pain left behind supercedes the one that was replaced.
The best things I have done to combat neck and back (spinal) pain is to work on my posture. It has not happened over night, but the work has paid off, and I notice far less pain than I did 6 months ago. Otherwise, go to a doc and get some non narc pain relievers.
Best of luck Curval
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my Dad had 4 fused and he still has pritty much normal function , this was 25 yrs ago .. Shure he still has some pain but i dont think its intollarable .
but id say wait as long as possiable .
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Curvy I can relate to the back pain..I have 2 compression fractures L4/L5 and an upper between the shoulder blades facing the heart..... For the lower one I spent years on meds and Dr's were wanting to fuse the 2 vertebrate together...Ohhhh Hellllll Nooooooo....
I went and had accupuncture done on the lower back once a week for 12 weeks and it made a BIG differance!!!
Can't do much with the upper compression fracture, mainly posture and back brace. They initially gave me morphine for the pain but I hated it... was a lump for the whole Month last July.
Good luck to ya Bud.
:(
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I know of several, that had that kind of surgery.
one guy had a disc that broke in 3 pieces, one went up inside his spine. they went in and got the one piece (about 1/3 of the disc) out, left other 2 pieces. he will have to have surgery again sometime in the future.
pros: gets rid of the severe pain.
cons: it will give you trouble in later years.
look for all the options available.
if your case isn't too bad, may be able to meld it back together with the hot oil procedure.
if its bad enough, might have to have the disc removed and your spine fused.
it all depends on your case.
look it up on sites like webmd.com, should be able to find more info on what can be done.
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Curval,try 2,i say 2 herniated discs :(
and man,i know what you mean about coughing and having a whole new experience of pain everytime,Before,my pinched nerve was just affecting my left side of my leg,now the pain has gotten worse (due to my stubborness) now the pain is on both legs,talk about wobbly :rofl
ice pack it for now,reduce the swelling and above all if you can,rest on your stomach with a pillow under your waist.
best i have found on some fixes,they talk about injecting something or other in between the discs,which i think sounds good versus cutting anything open,
check this link for info http://familydoctor.org/341.xml (http://familydoctor.org/341.xml)
hope you feel better
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I had a herniated L5-S1 disc pressing on the right side sciatic nerve root. I flew on it for 6 years (3 in fighters, 3 in T-37s) until the pain crippled me. I had a micro-discectomy done (surgeon recommended a full fusion but I declined in favor of the discectomy) and I'd call it 60-70% successful. I'm no longer crippled but I still have daily back pain and am told that I'll probably have pain the rest of my life. But it's good enough that I was back flying the T-37 after 4 months and pulling up to 9 G's within a year. Not exactly a healthy thing to do, but the surgery halted a steady decline.
Maybe someday I'll go in and see if a fusion will relieve the remaining pain and instability, but for now I can live with it.
That said, back surgery is hit or miss. Do a lot of research and try to find a surgeon with a high success rate. Don't go for any experimental treatments. Just get a discectomy, laminectomy, or even a fusion if necessary, but don't go for anything weird.
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lol Nuke.
Thanks guys. It is feeling a bit better, but then that could be the percocet.
That leg pain is really tough nsty1...I know exactly what you mean.
Eagl - the discetomy is what is being recommended. I may try it..still undecided.
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well, my moms case is special, but what started out as one ruptured, has turned into over 12 neck and back surgeries.
Most due to the first two being done by a quack, and they way he did them caused others to fail.
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Curval,
I found muscle relaxants to be 10 times more effective than narcotics. I could not get relief using percoset or any other painkiller without going beyond the recommended dosage, however a tab or two of soma each day fixed me right up. The muscle relaxants are also usually less addictive than the painkillers.
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I’ve had severe lower back pain for the past few years. I saw a few doctors and chiropractors; nothing seemed to help much. One of the chiropractors said that the nerves in the bad disks would eventually wear away in a few years. Everyone had good advice on exercises that would strengthen my stomach, butt and hamstrings; I did them but nut religiously. Within the past six months the pain has diminished greatly; it’s only about 20% of what it was a couple of years ago. I also have not been doing a great job of taking care of myself over the past two months due to our high risk pregnancy. I’m guessing I wore the nerves off like the chiropractor said.
I’m not advising that you tough it out, but in my case it worked.
I strongly advise getting lots of opinions from different schools of thought. After trying all lines of traditional medicine, my wife was considering a risky carpel tunnel surgery. A friend recommended a particular chiropractor and few adjustments to a bad disk in her back fixed it. I shudder to think that we seriously considered unnecessary surgery that could have done more harm than good.
eskimo
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L4-L5 surgery, Curval. A piece of disk had chipped off and was on my sciatic nerve. A simple surgery, small incision, felt better immediately. Almost like new.
Then, 18 months later a dipshirt college kid ran into the back of my car, while I (and a herd of others) were stopped at a red light.
ZAP! I can feel it again. Not as bad as it was, but certainly aggravating.
I was thinking about going back to the cutter to see what he thought but a few other surgeries got in the way. ;)
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Toad, I know I asked before, but what was recovery time again? How long for each stage? Hospital stay, recovery at home (the fun part) and then back to work...bearing in mind I'm a bean counter and not exactly physically challenged at work.
(I did get a nasty paper cut last week tho..one of those thick hard cardboard file folders..it was ugly.. ;) )
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I was out of the hospital within 48 hours of walking in.
Recovery at home was not too bad. As I said, the pain went away immediately. The pain from the cutting was never bad, Tylenol handled it. I started walking for exercise within a couple of days.
I think start to finish you'd be back at work in less than a week if you wanted to.... if your surgery went as well as mine and there's no guarantee.
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Eskimo, have been trying to tough it out, although I have been really bad about not doing the streaching and exercises I was told I should be doing. But the initial injury happened over 5 years ago and I have had at least 4 or 5 pretty bad episodes a year since. Always painful though...by episodes I mean hobbling around like an 80 year old. Today was the worst of all though.
It is starting to get a tad annoying.
:)
Eagl, the percocets aren't really all that helpful..you are right. They gave me diazapam for a muscle relaxant.
Thanks Toad. BTW, I may want a second opinion from a good back "hack" in the US or Canada. Recommendations from KC?
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It has been so many surgeries for my mom it is hard to remeber the early ones, and her case was bad, to start.
But it took her at least 2 weeks to be able to walk the first and second time.
Some of the laters one meant over a week in ICU. then over a week in the normal hospital and then a month in a hospice, and even then she could not walk.
Curval, your back is normal? No scoliosis? That partly were my moms problems started, the surgen fussed the disk the way you would if she had not had that. And the presure on the fussion from the scoliosis cause them to brake, and the other disks to go.
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Pink shorts are the leading cause of back pain.
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JB35 did and it turned out badly..
i will ask him to post here.
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Originally posted by Curval
Thanks Toad. BTW, I may want a second opinion from a good back "hack" in the US or Canada. Recommendations from KC?
Amundsen, right here in KC. Takes at least a month on the inital appointment. Took me more than that a bit, and I have connections ;)
Be glad to forward his contact info if you like.
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I will get you the name of my moms first back cutter, he was a top rated surgeon in his field.
Do not use him.
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I have a 6mm central disk bulge in L5-S1.
Look into the total disk replacement .
It is much like the same for the hip replacement.
As far a the other surgeries I would pass on em because every one I know that has had one regretted it later.
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Nothing heals like hard cold steel.
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I have a friend at work that is having the military looking into having this procedure done to him. He's always in pain. Somedays he can't even get out of bed to come to work.
He's gone to this since all the surgeries he's had previously only cause the pains to come back worse than it was prior to the surgery.
Charite (http://www.charitedisc.com/charitedev/domestic/patients/about_worldfirst.asp)
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Curv...next time you se 38MAW in the MA ask him about his recent back surgery. His went very well.
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Not sure how many back injuries 3 or 4 good ones and 2 neck injuries, last one almost snapped it for good and my doctor told me if I come off the bike again..... Though I did take it easy for a year but my gf hates it when I race speedway and refuses to come along.
...-Gixer
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Curval, your back is normal? No scoliosis? That partly were my moms problems started, the surgen fussed the disk the way you would if she had not had that. And the presure on the fussion from the scoliosis cause them to brake, and the other disks to go.
I had a third opinion (first my own chiro..who is also a qualified MD, the other two by surgeons) here by a visiting US surgeon. He had my MRI results on the backlight board when I walked in. First thing he said was "You have one of the healtiest spine and disks I've seen. Then he said "EXCEPT for this one" pointing at the disk which was clearly bulging out.
womabtt...my chiro/doctor is a believer in those disk replacements...both surgeons I saw poo pooed the idea.
Toad, if you could forward me his details I'd appreciate it. Thanks.
Woke up this morning and my back is pretty much as bad as it was yesterday. I can't stand up straight and I'm hobbling still. My wife left for Toronto yesterday and fortunately took the baby with her...but I have the two boys by myself. It has been a very interesting and painful experience so far. To add to my "fun" my oldest son has said he feels sick and doesn't want to go to the birthday party he was supposed to go to today...a sure sign he really is sick.
I'm in for a really great weekend.:(
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The key to lumbar disc surgery is only doing the surgery on the right patients. The best outcomes are in patients with leg pain that persists despite at least 3 months of conservative treatment and MRI confirmation of disc extrusion.
About 85% of these patients are cured with discectomy, but 15% will have persistent problems. More complicated surgical procedures such as fusion and artificial disc implants don’t improve outcome and are associated with more complications.
Factors associated with a poorer outcome are patients with back pain only (no leg pain), disorders other than disc extrusion, symptoms for longer than 1 year, depression, and those with pending litigation/worker’s compensation.
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Factors associated with a poorer outcome are patients...with pending litigation/worker’s compensation.
lol
By the standards you suggest (with the exception of the above) I would qualify I suppose.
The leg pain is something that has always been present from the moment I had the initial injury to date. Sciatica (sp?).
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Curval,
This is your PERFECT OPPORTUNITY!
Get Amundson to fix your back; he did a great job on mine.
(http://bonematters.com/Reeds%20new%20ofc2.jpg)
Heartland Hand and Spine (http://www.hssh.org/index.htm)
Glenn M. Amundson, M.D.
Address:
10730 Nall Avenue, Suite 200
Overland Park, KS 66211
Phone: 913-649-7300
Fax: 913-385-5559
Medical School:
University of Iowa College of Medicine
Internship:
Naval Hospital of San Diego
Residency:
Naval Regional Medical Center
Fellowship:
University of California—San Diego
Board Certification:
ABMS Orthopaedic Surgery
You and your wife can bunk in with us and then you can recoup at my house and then so an intense study of KC BBQ. I can probably get you internships at the "Big 3" KC restaurants and you can return to Bermuda as the "Bermuda BBQ King"!
Then instead of "bean counting" you can do "bean serving" and make lots of Bermuda bucks.
I have to warn you though.... you start making BBQ, the next thing you know you'll want a rifle so you can control the process from harvest to table. ;) Golf clubs won't hack it for harvesting potential BBQ.
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C4-5-6-7 in neck are screwed on me. I also have 3 bad discs in lower back. The sciatic nerve pain can make ya hurt in places you never knew you had places.
Like eagl said, Soma works pretty well to a certain extent.
Have you tryed a TENS machine? They work really well in some cases.
I`d also ask my doctor about using Glucosamine if I were you.
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Asking for medical advice on video game forum. You just made my ignore list curval.
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I asked for opinions, not advice. I just want to hear as many experiences as possible before I make any decision.
Thanks for playing tho Suave.
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I wanted to recomend taking a tai chi class, but you say you dont want advice...so
anyways, a guy at work did and it worked very well but it takes a few weeks to have any effect.
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Actually for a bad back, judo class and weight lifting would be much better.
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iove done aikido and nanbudo for almost 20 years and my back has never given me problems even if i have liftged alot of things wrong
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lol
I cannot stand straight up. Martial arts will have to wait until I can at least do that.
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:rofl
Curval,You have just learned how to greet your opponent,
now if you could only straightened out
(speaking from experience,of course) :rofl
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Curvel, last fall I suffered a herniated disc. It's a reoccuring problem from a "training injury" in 91. Normally it would flare up and be bothersome for 10-14 days and settle down, this last time was different. Had an MRI done and found that the L4/L5 disc was herniated and protruding 7mm, it was putting pressure on the L5 nerve root. The doctor prescribed pain killers, they did absoulty nothing, after a couple weeks I got him to prescribe anti-inflammitories and they helped out alot. It took about 2 1/2 months to get into see a surgeon, by then the problem had lessened to the extent that surgury was not a consideration. I am still have minor problems but with excercise it seems to be improving. He also recommended I try Glucosamine and Chondroitin Sulfate, I just started taking it so I don't know how well it will work.
http://www.arthritis.org/conditions/alttherapies/Glucosamine.asp
Hope it starts feeling better soon...