Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Fish323 on March 19, 2005, 12:56:10 AM
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I may be speaking out of place here, but when a plane is 100 feet off the runway and you shoot him out of the air, how does he get a ditch? Does this mean that some actually believe that a pilot would live through this? If so, why does a player die when he falls off a CV at 1/10th the speed, and into water no less.
What is the use of shooting a plane down if you dont get credit for shooting it down? It probably wouldn't bother me if it was a rare occurance, but it's ridiculously constsnt and totally unrealistic, not to mention that one of the main objectives of the game is to shoot them down. And to make matters worse bailing out of an untouched airplane will give the closest opponent the kill even if he never saw you, but shooting them down often gets you nothing. Makes sense, ha! I guess that, according to the game, if an allied pilot blew a plane out of the air and it was witnessed and confirmed, he sometimes got no kill credit for it. Are y'all sure about that?
To win a dogfight, allbeit at low speeds, and to get nothing for it is frustrating to say the least.
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Fishy, he was 100 feet off the runway. Perhaps you should have waited another 100 feet or so before you vulched him.
:aok
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Its not the fall that kills you.
Its the sudden stop.
You fall off a CV and you go straight down and splat
You get clipped while traveling at 200 knots and you might skid accross the ground
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Still haven't answered the question, if you blew a plane out of the air in WW2 was it a kill? Yes it was and it should be in here.Oh yeah, skidding across ground may break your fall, but have we forgotten about all of the high octane fuel that was involved? Airplanes typically exploded with that sort of turbulent landing. I have not seen that happen once, not ONCE.
BTW Stang, it happens in stallfights, slow dogfights and yes, vulches. I guess the pilots in WW2 "waited" for the planes to get another 100 ft off the ground for them to be recorded as kills too.
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The vulch and camp game.
Cant belive it come to this. Vulch whine.
By all means. The vulcher should get the credit for his extra ordinery skill of shooting a plane of the run way !
BTW, what is a troll?
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who cares about killing the poor guy, let him ditch, its how many planes you shoot down, not how many pilots you explode. irl if you downed a plane it didnt matter if the pilot lived or not, if a pilot ditches you still get a little victory symbol to put on your plane, and i assume ah scores it that way as well.
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Like I said dipper it wasn't a vulch, read next time huh, just makes the process move a whole lot faster.
Where is the little victory symbol on my plane? We dont have those in AH2 so we are supposed to be awarded the kill in the text buffer. See how it's supposed to work? No text message, nothing awarded. You assumed wrong.
After my last post I went back to MA and lit a A6M2 up with my Tempest's 20mm's with no apparent damage. On second pass I hit him and he burst into flames. He then did a scisors, a hard turn asd landed sucessfully. So, let me get this straight. A pilot will die from a single bullet wound, but being on fire does not hamper his or his planes ability to land? I guess the thousands of airmen that were burned beyond recognition were the exceptions to the rule? Most burning planes just maneuvered away and RTB'd for a hot cup of coffee. I guess I'm the only one who has noticed that most zero's burst into flames when hit but loose no performance, visability or maneuverability. It's one of the few constants in AH.
I filmed the A6M fight and landing (he scrambled to takeoff in film but lifted off at 174mph and went vertical with my 300mph Tempest ROFL) and will post it at my website. What compression should I use in the AH2 film viewer?
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George is getting angry!
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to be honest i prefer the realism this provides.
nothing more gamey than death death death in every situation.
If the pilot is too scared to let you decide his fate and he hits the tower then you still have a victory in my mind.
Its the guys that sit there and give you the option to hose them that i leave to .ef at will.
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Fishy,
Go home and tell your wife, or girfriend that you got the kill, I promise I wont call her and tell her any different.
Is your AH stats tied to your bank account balance or something?
LOL
Lighten up.
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Sure sure 100 feet of runway is where the dog fight is suppoce to be. That does not sound like vuclhing at all.
My fault, sorry.
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happens in low alt fights no where near airfield as well, hope that helps. ive taken wings off nikis very low, had him land in a tree top safely for a ditch. he couldnt believe it either. was on top of the tree, was crazy to see.
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:D Aint this a peach?
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Fish,
if this is any consolation..
Last week i spotted a low 262 and dived on him with my d40. I ended up about 200 yards behind him at 50 feet over the water, nearly 500mph... I blew both of his wings off and he dropped down to the water... slid to a stop and got the ditch with nothing left but his cockpit.
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It's the ditch model. Big freakin deal!
Jeez, why is it people are so bent about score?
Do you measure your manhood by a GAME?
Do you measure your place in life by a GAME?
Complain about something else that really matters.
There are any number of other issues with this game that are
a lot bigger problem than the ditch model and kill scoring.
I hope if I get obsessed with score in this game I have enough sense to delete my account and delete the game from my computer and get a life. It must be a really miserable existance to worry about every kill and every death. I'm as competitive about games and sports as most anyone, I love to win, and I hate to lose, but I count a lot of things to be far more important than "scoring glitches".
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I don't really care. I'm simply pointing out a weakness in the design model.
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Fish, I understand your frustration. The crash landing model is way too generous.
Recently, I was chasing an La-7 down to the deck, I smacked it and it pancaked at 500 mph +, the wings ripped off and it slid to a stop and the pilot got a ditch... Almost any contact with the ground at that speed should be fatal.
Likewise, I smacked a Zero with my IL-2 on the deck. It spun in inverted from 100 to 200 feet up. the pilot got a ditch. This certainly needs to be fixed.
My regards,
Widewing
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Thanks widewing, thats all I'm saying. The consistency is off, as I would be able to show with the film (20mm cannons had explosive rounds, planes didn't just fly away) if someone would tell me a good compression codec to use.
My score is not tied to my bank account, but why play a game if not for the score? Obviously the lemmings have a problem differentiating a question with an obsession, so I'll just let it go. If I want an itelligent answer I'll see if I can find the Sesame Street BB.
Am I alone in thinking that Captain Virgil there is getting a bit too worked up over this? Forget deleting the account, he should probably avoid the BB if he is going to get so worked up over a post.
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Originally posted by Fish323
My score is not tied to my bank account, but why play a game if not for the score? .
Oh I don`t know, fun maybe. If the game ever got to the point that I spent time worrying and biatchin about score I would quit and never look back.
Am I alone in thinking that Captain Virgil there is getting a bit too worked up over this?
Probably in the minority I`d say. This statement coming from you is almost comical. Your constant ingame voice and text cussing fits on every aspect of the game is what I`d call " getting a bit too worked up". " Hitech`s ******* BS" seems to be the staple of your vocabulary.
The nasal , whining, screaming, cussing fits on vox at your squaddies for everything from vulching the plane you wanted to vulch to giving them the benefit of your cussin vocabularly because they are bringing troops to a base that you wanted to Goon after you were finished vulching, I`d call "getting a bit too worked up".
So, no I`d say in the scheme of things Virg pretty well hit the nail on the head.
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awww SNAP!
From what I've heard, a great score get's you the girls. It can also get you discounts at your local grocery store!
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I have a friend who talked to aircrew man whose B-26’s wing was blown off (by flack, if I recall) at a couple hundred feet. All or most of the crew survived after the bomber spun to the ground and skidded forever shedding the other wing and stabilizers. It might happen a bit too often in AH, but it definitely happened for real in WWII.
eskimo
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Originally posted by eskimo2
I have a friend who talked to aircrew man whose B-26’s wing was blown off (by flack, if I recall) at a couple hundred feet. All or most of the crew survived after the bomber spun to the ground and skidded forever shedding the other wing and stabilizers. It might happen a bit too often in AH, but it definitely happened for real in WWII.
eskimo
Thats not really the point. In AH that B26 wouldnt have counted as a "kill" if the ditch was in friendly territory.
If you ditch in enemy terriotory the guy who shot you gets the kill and you record a death.
If you ditch in friendly territory the guy who shot you gets nothinhg and you record a ditch.
So there are two issies, one of surving crashes which is IMO a bit too generous from my experience flying an IL2 against vulches. And the second one, of not getting a kill if you force somebody down in their own territory.
And as to that second point I'm sure we all agree that in WW2 flaming an enemy and forcing him tocrash land even behind their own lines still cpounted as a kill in every air force..
An additinal issue I noticed is the problem of fire, we have oil damage impair you visibity severaly, but a fire does not have any effect until the end?
That could be adjusted, no?
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Thats not really the point. In AH that B26 wouldnt have counted as a "kill" if the ditch was in friendly territory.
If you ditch in enemy terriotory the guy who shot you gets the kill and you record a death.
If you ditch in friendly territory the guy who shot you gets nothinhg and you record a ditch.
So there are two issies, one of surving crashes which is IMO a bit too generous from my experience flying an IL2 against vulches. And the second one, of not getting a kill if you force somebody down in their own territory.
And as to that second point I'm sure we all agree that in WW2 flaming an enemy and forcing him tocrash land even behind their own lines still cpounted as a kill in every air force..
An additinal issue I noticed is the problem of fire, we have oil damage impair you visibity severaly, but a fire does not have any effect until the end?
That could be adjusted, no?
I agree, but I think that these “survivable” uncontrolled crash landings in friendly territory fit the AH kill/ditch scheme the way that it has always been. Most of us have “ditched” countless planes that would have been a total loss IRL. They count as a ditch because they went down 10 miles from a friendly base yet were 15 miles from an enemy base. Even water ditches count the same as parking an intact plane 5 feet from the runway.
It would be more realistic to count any plane as a kill when it has been damaged beyond repair. But then there’s the issue of the pilot’s survivability… Is a kill the loss of the pilot or the plane?
Perhaps ½ a kill should be awarded for damaging an enemy plane beyond repair and another ½ a kill for killing (or capturing) an enemy pilot. I’ve never understood the AH kill/ditch logic: ditch at sea 10 miles from a home base – no negative reflection on your K/D, bail from your plane over a home base – counts as a death against you K/D. Either way, the pilot makes it home and the plane is lost.
eskimo
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Any ditch anywhere should be a kill to the guy who shot you or forced you down in that fight.
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On an unrelated note: (well, OK, its related ;))
Score_is_for_dweebs
Who cares what score you got for pissing somebody off? They're pissed off, aren't they? Isn't that the more important point? At the very least, shouldn't it be?
I'm serious here, let The Hate flow free and ye shall be fulfilled :)
culero (its all gud)
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Totally ignoring any score implications there is a fundamental problem with the way ground/object collisions are modelled.
I was messing around offline in a D pony and after a little while I had to turn off the 'puter. I decided it would be fun to plow into a hangar rather than try and land. I dove down across a field at around 400mph and aimed right for a hangar, impacting it just above the doorway. To my surprise the plane hit the structure, continued through the "solid" walls shedding all appendages and then skidded along the ground on the other side still travelling at a very high speed. It gradually came to a halt but I wasn't in the tower.
Although the plane had been converted into an unpowered sled I didn't have so much as a pilot wound.
This is so wrong in so many ways I can't even begin to list them...
Obviously this is related to the fact that many crashes that are survived in the game and lead to ditches would be completely and utterly fatal IRL.
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It is funny to see the plane you just fired up with your guns burst into Flames, parts missing, plane totally out of control, plane hits the ground, crashes into trees , does a nascar flip over job , then tumbling to a stop , the guy hits tower and disappears . LMAO!! ..
Look to see if the kill shows up and nothing, This only makes the guy that just got shot down happy. And I've been one of those guys on both ends.
In the same hour of being on AH, I've spawned a tank to enemy base then desided not to go and nobody shoots me I hit tower and some guy in the area gets a proxy kill. Then if i got pinged and went to tower he may get the kill, then he may not. not consistant for sure. I dont care myself, just stating facts.
Every one playing this game has their own little agenda, thats why we all are here playing this game. So whether your here for Getting the best Score you can, Running with Squads, Flying Planes, Driving Tanks, Flying Bombers, PT boats, M-16, Osty, ship Guns, Field ack Guns, Doing your own thing for your enjoyment, More power to you all.
Hey man, if you like to Rank high and want to look up your score and see your rank and that makes you happy , Cool! You want to be the best fighter pilot and kill everyone on AH , Cool! Want to be the best bomber blow everything up, Cool! Drive tanks and destroy everyone elses turret, Cool! on and on...... Its your choice! Enjoy! . they usually have updates comming to resolve most of the major issues, just takes time. Its cool!
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If I recall correctly Gabroski (sp?) clipped his prop on a JABO run and ditched...no clue how fast he was going when he ditched but bet he was going close to 400mph when he dinged the prop...
I have no clue why the game awards a kill for a "ditch" on enemy turf and not if your on the friendly side of the magic line. As for the 20mm BS your simply wrong....a plane is mostly sheetmetal. Very possible to survive multiple hits in non critical area's...you could land 4 x 20mm off convergence with nothing but holes...or 4 in one place and saw plane in half.
I'd say 15% of my "victims" ditch...and gee...I get a ditch about the same percentage of the time. Usually when i'm low and slow right after take off and some noob cant finish the job:)
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OK if Aces High is suppose to mirro actual damage to the aircraft here is my twist to it. If a plane is on fire then you have set his fuel tanks on fire. I dont know about any of yall but it doesnt take long for a fuel tank to go BOOM!!! Speaking of the a6m aka Zero it was mostly made of magunism which is high flammable and is why so many were lost.
Now ditches modle needs a complete overhaul. Have you ever noticed you make an emergency landing at a ield and you are still at the field but most of your plane is on the grass but you get a ditch and sometimes someone gets a kill. So I suggest Hitech remodel if you are forced to ditch by an enemy con then it is a kill if no one is around then you get the ditch. If you make to your field and land there and a part of your plane is off the runway then you should get successful landing or at least that is how they do in the wordl even today.
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thats how it is in practicaly every other sim i play, if they are forced to ditch that is a kill, i thought this was a given, and ah put the kills in your score but just didnt count them when you were landing kills. odd i must say, this is a great example of "the game" invading our sim. some things you just dont mess with.
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Originally posted by eilif
if they are forced to ditch that is a kill,
If I hit you with one 303 round and you run for home, run out of gas and land 25 feet from the runway.....did I force you to ditch? If so I should get a kill because of my superior airmanship, and you a death, after all I did hit you once.
If all ditchs are concidered kills then there is no incentive to try to take your smoking hulk back to friendly territory. Just auger in so the man can get points. Just like real life. :rolleyes:
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If there is damage to your aircraft caused by enemy fire and you run out of fuel and ditch 25 feet from the runway you got shot down. But if you land on the airfield say 10 feet from the runway not the ends of the runway then you should get successfule landing.
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The only annoying aspect of the new ground collision model, is that its use has now become a tactic.
Very often now I see an enemy plane take some small damage or just be outflown and the very next thing it does is nose down for a 200mph + ditch.
That is not HT's fault.