Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: rabbidrabbit on March 19, 2005, 10:18:09 AM
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I know this has been knocked about ad nauseum but I have not heard a HTC response to this idea. What if instead of taking the damage yourself you simply lose all of your ammo?
This would eliminate the prime complaint of un called for death by some hero flying through you as well as prevent weenies from shooting down folks on their own team.
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Don't like the idea. The effect would be more people not whatching out for friendlies when they shoot.
And before this thread gets going. Don't sugest somthing that has all ready been suggested because unless a new idea comes up ,(which is doubtfull) kill shooter will not be changing.
HiTech
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How about if you shoot a friendly, he takes full damage, but when you land you have to type a 2 page single spaced letter to the bereaved parents before you can fly again.
thats a joke by the way
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dear mommy an daddy furious.
i reel sorry for shooting down your son, but he was stealing my kills so i had no choice.
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Thanks for the response HT.
My counter arguement would be that the only times I have been killed by KS is when they flew or drove through me from behind and I did not know they were doing so. Kinda sucks to be placing a shot and some hero flys straight through you to try and grab a kill. Since we make the gamey compromise of no friendly collisions how about granting the benefit of the doubt to the killshooter that the hits were not intend nor particulary their fault.
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How about this... when you shoot a friendly it sends you a warning "a one time warning" that pops up like the join window and advises you '*example*' your shooting a friendly, and if it happens again within 8 hours you will lose "perks"or "down graded score"or "lose ammo for 1 hour" <-- theres a set of words for that I dont remember).
Or this may work,, your name and address and phone # has been sent to the person you just caused to kill themselves so they may release there tension on your head :) just because you Had to cut in front of them like a dork and not wait your turn or if you did shoot a friendly on purpose we are sending a certified letter telling your mommy! and she will not let you play, you will be grounded * two weeks* in your room! Fixed that!!
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My counter arguement would be that the only times I have been killed by KS is when they flew or drove through me from behind and I did not know they were doing so.
Lack of SA. You should have been watching out more.
Kinda sucks to be placing a shot and some hero flys straight through you to try and grab a kill.
Yeah, it sucks. But that's life.
If you couldn't shoot the target down yourself, and enter a chase which soon everybody wants to take part in, then its effectively a failure on your part - especially if your plane is not very good in harsh maneuvering. Can't really blame someone else for jumping into the fight, since you couldn't shoot him down first.
Since we make the gamey compromise of no friendly collisions how about granting the benefit of the doubt to the killshooter that the hits were not intend nor particulary their fault.
Which is the lesser of two evils?
a) a killshooter, which occasionally frustrates people, but very effective in preventing trigger happiness in regards to hordes of friendlies spraying over your shoulders like mad.
b) a system that has a light/indirect punishment for shooting at friendlies, which people will be less frustrated in the unlikely event of true accidental shootings, but in overall effectiveness, will encourgae people to spray like mad to gain a kill, since they have no worries of being damaged or killed for doing something like that.
I'd go for a).
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Ok. You want a unique suggestion? I got one.
One of the 12 other La7s chasing the lone P40 cuts you off just as you fire. The hit sprites flash and........ wait for it........ are you ready for this?
SHawk explodes, clear on the other side of the map. :D
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Lack of SA. You should have been watching out more.
LOL please tell me you are joking?! you can not actually believe the garbage your shoveling here.
200 off a enemys 6, one, i would have already ensured no con diving in on me for pick. i would not check 6 for a freindly diving in to dive through me as i fire.
ive only been killshot a few times, only once maybe twice, did i deserve it...other times i was 200 out, just pull trigger when freindly con dives b/n me and nme...boom. no time to react, or i would not have fired.
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Yea, I agree with KillnU. I don't worry about friendlies when I'm 200 off a cons 6. My example would be the con your chasing is going for a HO on a friendly just as you fire. Happened to me, I got the kill and a smoking engine lol
Also, I'd go with option B. Maybe just take away ammo if you woulda killed yourself, not just ping yourself up a bit. Not being argumentative, just my opinion. And theres plenty of those around:D
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Ht, did you ever hear my idea?
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given warping and blind spots it's impossible to keep track of everyone close by to you. What I'm suggesting simply does not penalize for things beyond their control beyond losing all the remaining ammo load. As it is now folks who don't like each other pull the KS trick to get the other one killed. They are simply exploiting the collisions code (coad) to screw someone else over. Making the KS simply remove the ammo load of the offender still prevents shooting down friendlies and adds a significant price for your "lack of attention" without excessive penalties.
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How about we leave it as it is and everyone starts paying better attention to who/what is around you by using better SA more and spray and pray less.
I like that idea much better
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
How about we leave it as it is and everyone starts paying better attention to who/what is around you by using better SA more and spray and pray less.
I like that idea much better
So your an option A guy huh:p
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Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
given warping and blind spots it's impossible to keep track of everyone close by to you. What I'm suggesting simply does not penalize for things beyond their control beyond losing all the remaining ammo load. As it is now folks who don't like each other pull the KS trick to get the other one killed. They are simply exploiting the collisions code (coad) to screw someone else over. Making the KS simply remove the ammo load of the offender still prevents shooting down friendlies and adds a significant price for your "lack of attention" without excessive penalties.
In the last year I've had only 2 killshooters 1 I wasnt paying attention to the friendly next to me and we crossed paths at the same time (my fault)
the other I mistakingly thought the enemy I was after was chasing friendly in front of me was headed away from me when in actuality he was headed at me.
Again. My fault.
Oh there was 1 other time when I was in a tank and didnt see the friendly icon above him and shot at him thinking he was an enemy.
Fact of the matter is I very very very rarely experiance killshooters because
1 I pay attention to whats around me
2 I fire in short bursts
3 I let go of the trigger as soon as a friendly enters my view untill I know where he is headed. then I am very deliberate with what shots I take.
I see people get and then whine about killshooters all the time in almost every instance it is because they werent doing one or all threee things mentioned above.
I've also had people BEHIND me warn me about killshooter.
If your behind me its your job to worry about killshooter. Not mine
If your behind a friendly only shoot when you have a clear shot. then only in short bursts.
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Originally posted by SuperDud
So your an option A guy huh:p
Yup while accidents sometimes may happen if you fly smart they are the exeption rather then the norm.
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Zeroing ammo also doesn't remove a fighter from the enemy's problem. He doesn't know one of them is no longer a threat and is liable to both waste time trying to kill said ammoless fighter and waste energy trying to prevent it from gaining a gun solution.
When a friendly fire incident happens either the shootee or the shooter must be completely removed fromthe air combat equation by being destryed. Take your pick as to which it should be.
Personally I've suffered killshooter less than 10 times in all the time I've played AH.
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I think I have been hit by kill shooter 3 times in an aircraft and once in a gv in 3 years. Each of those times another individual flew or drove through my vehicle while I happened to be shooting. There have been many more times when others zoomed through me or directly in front of me and I avoided the problem. Stupid stuff happens and there are also heros out there who fly through someone else while they are shooting to screw them. My suggestion is nothing more than giving the benefit of the doubt. I don't really care since it's not my customer getting pissed at me. I'm just pointing it out.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Yup while accidents sometimes may happen if you fly smart they are the exeption rather then the norm.
OK, you and Karnak have swayed me. Looking back, like I said, only time I've had a problem was when bad guy and friendly were HOing each other and I thought the bad guy was behind the friendly on his 6. Got the kill and killed my engine so I had to ditch, I guess you could say I got them both lol. Other than that, whenever friendlies are around, I've never had more than an occasional ping from being overzealous. I'm now an option A guy!
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Gentlemen, Just a little ~~Courtsey~~ would save anyone from getting a killshooter, Easy to type text or vox someone to say: "hey so and so you got that spit?" or "hey so and so need help?" or "hey so and so want me to engage in your fight to help?" or "Hey so and so if you need help let me know?" its that easy. Ive seen it done many times, but surely its not enough.
To many times I see a guy thats been on some bandits 6 working it to get his or her guns on target (not in trouble mind you) and a cherry picker swoops in and swipes kill and possibley a K/S. <---- this action right here causes a panic in the guy thats been working the potential kill, then the K/S potential in in affect.
Really sucks!
Because now your not only fighting the bandit, your fighting your countryman to preserve your potential kill you've been working on for how ever long it may be. 20 seconds or 5 minute dog fight its still your time and effort spent, so at this point your distracted and should'nt be, now having to look out for getting your kill and not a Killshooter.
Happens to many of AH'ers. If the bandit there fighting heads toward you and involves you, then obviously asking is out of the question, protect yourself!, To save a squad member ( i.e. if your on a Bandits 6 and he on my squadies 6 and your not getting him fast enough, I'm gunna if i can) and maybe a few other situations warrant not asking Other then that, its just plain rudeness IMO
R-E-S-P-E-C-T is the answer
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I would suggest that the FIRST damage taken in a killshooter incident NEVER be critical damage.
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Make a selection where you can either keep the killshooter damage as it is or have your account billed twenty-five cents towards the HTC Cragganmore Single Malt Scotch account over at the internetwines place.
Damned Big T
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LOL please tell me you are joking?! you can not actually believe the garbage your shoveling here.
200 off a enemys 6, one, i would have already ensured no con diving in on me for pick. i would not check 6 for a freindly diving in to dive through me as i fire.
That's why you die in killshooter accidents. The killshooter is doing its job perfectly by punishing you for your carelessness.
ive only been killshot a few times, only once maybe twice, did i deserve it...other times i was 200 out, just pull trigger when freindly con dives b/n me and nme...boom. no time to react, or i would not have fired.
Yup. No time to react. Why am I not surprised?
You were target fixated and didn't doubt the slightest bit someone else might also want to take a bite at your prey. Sorry KillnU, the MA isn't DA. There are other people flying nearby, you know. This isn't one of those masturbation fantasy "1:1 duels" some people hold so sacred. Other people want as much as kills as you do, and they will go for it, unless they are organized or inherently courteous - which you should know by now that its very hard to find in the MA nowadays.
If you would have been watching who was nearby, who was following the enemy plane with you, and actually took the time to try and communicate with that guy, you might have had some time to react, or avoid incidents that need such reactions in the first place, no?
Who's shovelling who garbage here?
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I <3 Killshooter
-Sik
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how about killshooter making both planes turn into giant flying sheep? ;)
or make both plane's speed drop to 0 instantly ... that way both will stall but one wont 'die' because some ******* jumped in between him and his d100 con as he was firing his 30mm's.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
That's why you die in killshooter accidents. The killshooter is doing its job perfectly by punishing you for your carelessness.
Yup. No time to react. Why am I not surprised?
You were target fixated and didn't doubt the slightest bit someone else might also want to take a bite at your prey. Sorry KillnU, the MA isn't DA. There are other people flying nearby, you know. This isn't one of those masturbation fantasy "1:1 duels" some people hold so sacred. Other people want as much as kills as you do, and they will go for it, unless they are organized or inherently courteous - which you should know by now that its very hard to find in the MA nowadays.
If you would have been watching who was nearby, who was following the enemy plane with you, and actually took the time to try and communicate with that guy, you might have had some time to react, or avoid incidents that need such reactions in the first place, no?
Who's shovelling who garbage here?
Only one shovling watermelon in this thread is you ... unbelievable.
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That's an interesting idea Tac.. but I imagine this scenario;
'*Groooan...* There goes Mr.Smartymouth with his yapping around in ch.200 again... Golly, if only he wasn't on my side..."
"Wait.. izzat him I see down there?? Ha! Finally a chance to piss him off! I'll just swoop down and when he's about to make a kill... bam! He's gonna be one surprised sucker..!"
..
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Only one shovling watermelon in this thread is you ... unbelievable.
Fortunately, this "chit" that you're claiming I'm shovelling is how the game is modelled currently. Killshooter works exactly the way it is designed to.
Got any problems with that?
Then you can always present your mighty flamey opinions to the guy who makes the system this way.
* KS hurts/kills people who shoot friendlies.
* No exceptions to that rule.
* And if you are causing KS to others, or is a victim to one, then its as much your own fault as it is for the other guy.
* The only way to avoid it is 1) fly with courteous people, 2) fly with guys who know team-fighting, or 3) grow more SA.
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k so how about they both go to 0 speed AND turn into huge flying sheep?
rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr r*plink*baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa*auger*
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Kweassa,
Hes right, your shoveling a load here.
Yesterday I was defending a base that was getting overrun in my tiger. Some hero keeps spawning and continually driving back and forth through my tank while I'm trying to engage. Tell me that I should always be jumping out of the gunners position just in case some ******* decides they like driving through people. There is no way you can have much SA while in that position either. I'm not sure but I'll bet the jerk who kept doing it was one of the ones I killed several times while holding off the horde that was attacking me.
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The best solution (better then what we have right now) is for the guns to "Jam" for a few minutes.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
The best solution (better then what we have right now) is for the guns to "Jam" for a few minutes.
Not a bad idea. Say 30 seconds for each round that hits.
I think they should jam from overuse (overheating) anyway
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k so how about they both go to 0 speed AND turn into huge flying sheep?
It's a deal!
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Yesterday I was defending a base that was getting overrun in my tiger. Some hero keeps spawning and continually driving back and forth through my tank while I'm trying to engage. Tell me that I should always be jumping out of the gunners position just in case some ******* decides they like driving through people. There is no way you can have much SA while in that position either.
How the heck is that a KS problem? It's a 'jerk problem'. Jerks cause problems in every kind of system or implementation in the game.
If you have a jerk problem, you tell him to stop, and if he doesn't, you film it and send it to HTC under grounds that the player filmed is in bad conduct, abusing the system, annoying others, and ruining the game on purpose.
KS is not perfect, it has limitations. But what it does, is at least deal a death sentence to those kind of jerks, if they should ever want to tote their guns on you.
Under normal circumstances a slight bit of attention, awareness, and cooperation is all it takes to avoid KS entirely.
Unless you are about to claim that every friendly who caused you killshooter purposefully flew in front of you just to piss you off and kill you, KS is doing its job very well, thank you.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
KS is not perfect, it has limitations. But what it does, is at least deal a death sentence to those kind of jerks, if they should ever want to tote their guns on you.
[/B]
Actualy, the system deals a death sentence to the victems of that jerk. Which is my point.
It is however equaly effective in it's intended purpose of stoping similar jerks from team killing.
You can deal with both sides of the coin by dealing a less extreme blow.
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Fortunately, this "chit" that you're claiming I'm shovelling is how the game is modelled currently. Killshooter works exactly the way it is designed to.
Got any problems with that?
Then you can always present your mighty flamey opinions to the guy who makes the system this way.
* KS hurts/kills people who shoot friendlies.
* No exceptions to that rule.
* And if you are causing KS to others, or is a victim to one, then its as much your own fault as it is for the other guy.
* The only way to avoid it is 1) fly with courteous people, 2) fly with guys who know team-fighting, or 3) grow more SA.
I have no problem with the killshooter model ... none at all.
Its this smelly arrogant watermelon that give you away ...
Lack of SA. You should have been watching out more.
If you couldn't shoot the target down yourself, and enter a chase which soon everybody wants to take part in, then its effectively a failure on your part - especially if your plane is not very good in harsh maneuvering. Can't really blame someone else for jumping into the fight, since you couldn't shoot him down first.
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Its this smelly arrogant watermelon that give you away ...
Smelly arrogant my prettythang Slap.
You are the Kurfurst to my Milo or vice versa.
Hold a grudge against a guy in one thread, and then start following him around in every thread to make wise cracks. Not a single relevant material or opinion to the thread you add - all you got is empty insults and bluffs.
... except I don't start the aggressions and namecallings, until you decide to show up.
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Actualy, the system deals a death sentence to the victems of that jerk. Which is my point.
It is however equaly effective in it's intended purpose of stoping similar jerks from team killing.
You can deal with both sides of the coin by dealing a less extreme blow.
rabid, the only instances where the 'death sentence' ever becomes a real drag is when someone decides to be a jerk to you, like the instance you experienced in the Tiger.
99% of the cases, people cause, or fall victim to KS by pure accident. It's like a roadkill - some say its unavoidable, but I say you should try to drive more defensively when you are near animal crossings. A little experience easily shows whos the 'n00b' around where you are flying - you could usually tell by his wreckless shooting or flying. As much as one would be keen to watch his six for red dots, he should also take notice of those kind of people.
All in all, a player with some AH experience are usually polite and courteous, and will try to avoid becoming a victim of, or causing, KS to others. And the rare cases of such 'extremes', is not a hazard or vice big enough to refute the power or effectiveness of the KS in overall.
Usually, people try to avoid it at all costs, because, it is so deadly. If it ever becomes weaker, shooting over shoulders and wreckless spraying will just become that much more common, and I think you are gonna hate that much more than any KS accident we might have currently.
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dear HT, i have never been killed by killshooter, what am i doing wrong?
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Originally posted by john9001
dear HT, i have never been killed by killshooter, what am i doing wrong?
thinking
:D
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Smelly arrogant my prettythang Slap.
You are the Kurfurst to my Milo or vice versa.
Hold a grudge against a guy in one thread, and then start following him around in every thread to make wise cracks. Not a single relevant material or opinion to the thread you add - all you got is empty insults and bluffs.
... except I don't start the aggressions and namecallings, until you decide to show up.
I don't hold a grudge against you ... I read just about the whole board and when you dump some crap in a post ... I will call you on it ... simple as that ... get use to it.
Your first post added nothing with any relevant material at all ... except to tell rabbidrabbit to get better SA or that he didn't kill his target fast enuff. Or telling KillnU ... That's why you die in killshooter accidents. The killshooter is doing its job perfectly by punishing you for your carelessness. It all smacks of elitist arrogance. Who's to know what their SA skills are ? ... obioviously you think you do.
Show me where I bluffed ... show me where I insulted ... show me where I namecalled.
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When you sugest a change to the game try to think of what the dweebs that join the week after you implement it would say about it.
There is no way for the game to tell with absolute accuracy who is being a dweeb, the shooter or the shot. So it punishes the shooter cause they at the very least will ususally be the deciding factor.
My favorite kill shooter is when you blow up a plane and the end of your burst passes through the target and kill shoots you on the friendly plane that you were clearing.