Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: TrueKill on March 21, 2005, 09:53:22 AM
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Some people got mad early this morning because i was spawncamping and got 54 kills. They where saying i was cheating and my tiger was a super tank beacuse thier T34 shells could not penetrate my Tigers front armor. I told them a T34s shell could not penetrate a Tigers front armor even and piont blank range. After reviewing my film the T34s spawned up at a range of 325-350m. Now here are the stats of the T34 and Tiger.
We have T-34/76 1943 version with the 76.2mm F-34 1942 l/41.2 gun.
Weapon
76.2 mm F-34 L/42.5, L/41.51(1940 & 1942)
Type of Ammunition
BR-350A1 APHE
Weight
6.3 kg1
Velocity
2,150 ft/sec, 662 m/sec
Thickness of armor penetrated (range meters)
1M
90mm
500M
69mm
1000M
61mm
Now the Tiger
Armor Thickness (mm)
Hull Front, Upper
100
102@20°
100@10°
Hull Front, Lower
82
60-80
80@0°
Turret Front
100-120
100@0°-11°
100@8°
Mantlet: 100-110@0°
So as you can see the only thing they could have penetrated at 1M was the lower front hull IF it wasnt slanted. But they where at 325-350m, so like i said then there was no way they could have killed me in thier T34s. If u dont beleave me go HERE (http://www.wwiivehicles.com/index.htm)
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klink and i have posted many times about this subject,the 34 is no match for a tiger at best u can track it after repeted hits to the same drive sprocket....good thing the King tiger hasent been added
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Why would they be mad,you needed the practice shooting vehicles that don,t move and can,t see you.
God forbid you actually park between the base and the spawn point and battle them as they come in.
Spawn camping is for people that need to pad thier scores.
Spawn camping only gets you 1 thing anyway"EGGED"!
:aok
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Well when you are defeding a V-Base for 3 hours and nonstop GVs coming in you get fed up and go spawn camp,so they can see its camped and dont come back. But it backfired on me.:lol I killed one then two poped up so I Kill them then three poped up so I killed them. rince and repeat untill you use all 92AP rounds and have to call squadies in so you can get the hell outa there. And yes it takes skill and a good GVer to spawn camp a heavy spawn.I u want ill post the film so you can see how fast they where uping.
[EDIT] They where moving and yes they could see me. In the film you cant hear or see them shooting , but i got HIT once and had about 25-30 bounces.
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Originally posted by TrueKill
Well when you are defeding a V-Base for 3 hours and nonstop GVs coming in you get fed up and go spawn camp,so they can see its camped and dont come back. But it backfired on me.:lol I killed one then two poped up so I Kill them then three poped up so I killed them. rince and repeat untill you use all 92AP rounds and have to call squadies in so you can get the hell outa there. And yes it takes skill and a good GVer to spawn camp a heavy spawn.I u want ill post the film so you can see how fast they where uping.
[EDIT] They where moving and yes they could see me. In the film you cant hear or see them shooting , but i got HIT once and had about 25-30 bounces.
unbelieveable that you think anything to do with spawn camping takes skill.
spawn camping is almost as bad as HO'ing everyone in you Bf109..........er....nevermin d, carry on. :D
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dont for get my 190:rofl
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I saw that exchange Truekill, and to your eternal credit you didn't get personal despite some of the behaviour being exhibited by one of your erstwhile foes.
You were completely right last night, and I was tempted to edge into the conversation, but you just didn't need any help. Good Job.
Voch5
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T34/76 was just about pretty helpless vs Tiger I in real life too, they could damage the Tigers because the RL damage model is rather more complex than AH but it was not an easy fight for the 34s. Thats why Tiger I is perked and T34 is not....
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spawn campin to defend a heavily attacked base is fair enough. Some people will sit there for HOURS at a time, I get bored after 5minutes if no tanks show up.
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Ok here it is AHF file 30mins long 3mb right click and save as HERE (http://www.ah-films.com/Bad SpawnCamper.ahf )
[EDIT] about 30-45mins after the film they took V52 me and ETA where on the base so we setup and poped em when they rolled outa the hanger so the m3 could roll in. sry didnt film this one but i did get a SS (http://www.ah-films.com/ahss54.bmp )
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I think a possible solution is to give the T-34 the 85mm gun like it had later in the war.
:aok
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yes the 85 mm would even it up a bit ,,luv that suggestion
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TrueKill is right about the stats of the Tigers armor. All that’s great but as long as the other aspects are equal and fare. Like the Tiger had a very slow moving turret slower than most tanks moved and the tiger could be easily out flanked.
What I don’t like is the spawn should be protected so that at least you can get the engine started before you get killed. It takes to long to spawn out in the open before you can even move. This is the only problem I have with spawn camping. Or at least have the tanks spawned a part some not all in one spot always.
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Out flanking the tiger is irrelivent. I dont think the in game T34 can kill it from the rear or side from 10 feet. Which is incorrect as far as I know.
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Found the website: M-8 destroying Tiger
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arena/5096/upgtiger.htm
The ability to destroy a Tiger I from other than the front is described in a wartime report from the 7th Armored Division while in Belgium in December of 1944:
While northern and eastern flanks had been heavily engaged, the northeastern section had been rather quiet. The only excitement there had been was when an M8 armored car from "E" Troop destroyed a Tiger tank. The armored car had been in a concealed position at right angles to run along a trail in front of the MLR. As the tank passed the armored car, the M8 slipped out of position and started up the trail behind the Tiger, accelerating in an attempt to close. At the same moment the German tank commander saw the M8, and started traversing his gun to bear on the armored car. It was a race between the Americans who were attempting to close so that their puny 37-mm would be effective in the Tiger’s "Achilles heel" (its thin rear armor), and the Germans who were desperately striving to bring their "88" to bear … Suddenly, the M8 had closed to 25 yards, and quickly pumped in 3 rounds… the lumbering Tiger stopped, shuddered; there was a muffled explosion, followed by flames which bellowed out of the turret and engine ports, after which the armored car returned to its position.
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M5 Stuart destroying Tiger tank
Dennis Riva, a fellow tank buff, remembers the wartime story of an M5A1 light tank veteran, whose vehicle came across a Tiger II tank traveling in a ravine between two small hills. The light tank was quickly moved onto the rise paralledl and above the Tiger. The crew of the light tank then fired four to five rounds of 37mm ammo into the Tiger’s thin upper rear engine deck. As the smoke started to pour out of the Tiger’s engine the German crew took flight.
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Originally posted by Pongo
Out flanking the tiger is irrelivent. I dont think the in game T34 can kill it from the rear or side from 10 feet. Which is incorrect as far as I know.
It would very a close call for the T34 76mm to penetrate 80mm from any real range, maybe with special AP rounds?
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Like I said the Tiger can be out flanked if the turret moves slow like in real life and the tanks didnt take so long to start moveing from spawn!!!!!!!!!!!! This is what the sherman tanks did and hit them from like 60 yrs out...
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This is stupid.
When someone spawncamps then I up a Stuka with 4,000kgs. Only idiots keep upping from a spawncamped vh. Just like the idiots that up from a vulched base and b1tch about it.
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Tiger could lock one track and perform a 360 by moving around its axis. Sherman tanks could not do this.
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You sure about that? :)
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Originally posted by Drunky
This is stupid.
When someone spawncamps then I up a Stuka with 4,000kgs. Only idiots keep upping from a spawncamped vh. Just like the idiots that up from a vulched base and b1tch about it.
exactly what I would have said. But prefer the 26s to kill spawncampers in case he has a friend.
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Well, I hate to say it but in Truekills defence they were mostly uping t34's and m16's. Thats a no brainer lost right there. I don't know if I would call it skill or not but, he was very lucky. When you were bugging out and that panzer spawned 200 out you should have been dead. Then when the tiger was 1k behind you you should have been dead. It doesn't matter what you spawn in. If the site is camped by a tiger and you do 1 or 2 at a time you will loose. If those guys would have gotten smart and spawned all together with panzers the streak probly would have ended real soon. Funny thing was when they did get away from the spawn point they ran where you could shoot them,lol.
As for the article, nice piece of allied propaganda. Hardly any of it could be varified by other witnesses. Except for the lone tank crew who said they killed a tiger tank today. As, for the 57mm AT gun crew took them 6 shots. Its been found that the allies greatly fabricated stories to defeat the tigerphobia that was paralysing the troops. It's been found that air power almost had no impact on german heavy armor. If anyone can find any gun camera footage of a P51,P47, Typie or Tempest killing a Tiger tank I sure would like to see it. Most of the film I find shows them straffing supply convoys and the armor they straff you dont see the vehicle destroyed.
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Originally posted by SunTracker
Tiger could lock one track and perform a 360 by moving around its axis. Sherman tanks could not do this.
Well I quess the info on the History channel was wrong than lol, They had a whole thing on the Sherman V.S. the Tiger and thats not what happened at all. The Tiger was slow in everything
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Don,t believe everything you see on TV.
My new spawn camp breaking technique works very well.
I keep upping letting them think i don,t have a clue,whilst my squaddie is enroute for thier location with Lancs.Usually after that they get the point,then we move on too the next spawn camp to be broken up.Yea i getted killed alot ,but who really cares about the score?
:aok
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Originally posted by SunTracker
Found the website: M-8 destroying Tiger
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arena/5096/upgtiger.htm
The ability to destroy a Tiger I from other than the front is described in a wartime report from the 7th Armored Division while in Belgium in December of 1944:
While northern and eastern flanks had been heavily engaged, the northeastern section had been rather quiet. The only excitement there had been was when an M8 armored car from "E" Troop destroyed a Tiger tank. The armored car had been in a concealed position at right angles to run along a trail in front of the MLR. As the tank passed the armored car, the M8 slipped out of position and started up the trail behind the Tiger, accelerating in an attempt to close. At the same moment the German tank commander saw the M8, and started traversing his gun to bear on the armored car. It was a race between the Americans who were attempting to close so that their puny 37-mm would be effective in the Tiger’s "Achilles heel" (its thin rear armor), and the Germans who were desperately striving to bring their "88" to bear … Suddenly, the M8 had closed to 25 yards, and quickly pumped in 3 rounds… the lumbering Tiger stopped, shuddered; there was a muffled explosion, followed by flames which bellowed out of the turret and engine ports, after which the armored car returned to its position.
At the bottom of the page was also this which I thought was cute;
Disclaimer: The Zerstorer does not endorse the use of individual M3/M5/M8s to assault Tiger or King Tiger tanks in Panzer General II. Miracles happen only in real life! :D
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Originally posted by SunTracker
Tiger could lock one track and perform a 360 by moving around its axis. Sherman tanks could not do this.
Uh, sparky, Shermans could, and did.
Karaya
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Originally posted by TrueKill
And yes it takes skill and a good GVer to spawn camp a heavy spawn.I u want ill post the film so you can see how fast they where uping.
No skill involved at all.
Karaya
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I love it when people use the spawn rush strategy and then whine that it takes no skill to defeat it.
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The T-34 we have, shooting the ammo we have, *might* be able to defeat the rear and side armor of the Tiger at a range of about a foot.
During the summer of '43, the Br-350P round was introduced. It was basically a tungsten core round, and could defeat the frontal armor of a Tiger from point blank range, and the rear and side from about 500 meters. A typical T-34/76 in 1943 would have been issued 6 of these rounds, according to a book that I have.
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"And the wheels on the bus go round and round!!"
Truekill, you find and kill the opponent any way possible. That is why you play the game. Job well done! :D
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LOL ty:aok
The guy that i was camping even though iv never heard of him or killed him said i was sad cuz thats the only way I could get kills. I'v played this game for almost 4 years and have sat at a V-Base and waited for them to come in more times then i can count (just incase grits comes in here again its more then 10 lol) and i only spawn camp about 3-5 times a month. In a month I can avrege in about 15-200 kills in tanks so Schmucky eather way I'm still ganna kill ya.:rofl
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Originally posted by TrueKill
more times then i can count (just incase grits comes in here again its more then 10 lol)
You sure about that? :)
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Release the JS-2.