Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Clifra Jones on March 22, 2005, 01:27:02 PM
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The F8F discussion has lead me to ask this question. Many posters made the valid point that no matter how historically significant, adding early/mid war planes is a waste of time because a large number of players will not fly them. Therefor I ask the question: Are these Uber plane "dweeb" (yes I do fly the Dora on occasion) going to fly Zekes at Midway? P400s and P40s at Port Moresby? P39's on the Eastern front? How many will fly for Japan in those late war butt woopings like the Battle of the Phillipine Sea?
For me, I'd fly for the Empire of the Rising Sun for the whole war even knowing we are going to get killed in the end. Question is how many others will feel the same way???
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i think if TOD is presented correctly (not the same way CT is, without goals) a real set of goals and historicaly matched planes..then i say it has a good chance of working..
if on the other hand its gonna be like current CT, an MA with limited plane set.. then it will crash and burn...
i think the trick will be getting the pace of the action right...if you have tried out TARGETWARES game rabul then you will know that this is a mission based game..unfortunatly this game i feel dosn't work because the pace isn't quite right..some players who come in for a quick 30min 1 hour burn out wouldn't get their kicks..where as players in it for the long haul woulldn't want after a 45 min flight to be told the scenareo will be changing in 5 mins..
as far as planes go i like flying brit planes so that means spits mossies and typhoons.. but i would take a p40 on a mission if i knew there wouldn't be an la7 or g10 at the destination..
roll on TOD it will either be a new era in AH or it will crash and burn like CT..
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I don't know... I think I need to read a write-up of TOD before I can give you an honest opinion. I've read some things on this board that lead me to certain assumptions as to what it is going to be, but I've heard nothing definitive.
If they keep things in check, it shouldn't be so bad. By that, I mean if you have a6ms against p40s and even out the navy planes well, there shouldn't be a problem. I suppose I don't understand how the years will work out. In other words, say you have the european front: US vs. LW. What models of 38s, 51s, 47s, 109s, 190s...etc will be available? All of them? Or is this just a number of scenarios all playing out at different times? How do the 262s work into it?
I just have too many unanswered questions in order to give a good opinion. I hope it works out as well as they hope it will.
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from what i read its going to be kik ***
AI msiions..mixed with real life pilots..
Say..U ..30 or so P38 pilots are going to escort a 28 box group of lancasters to Wilhmshaven to bob the uboat pens..
Teh germans send up..a mix of 109s and 110 s to kill the buffs..
sounds good to me
I think TOD will be badddazz..but sound slike a bch to me coading...
I mean setting up so many pre planned misions of mixed AI and real pilots..
I look forward to it..
1 big thing is..WE BETTR NOT HAVE TO GRAB FOR 40 min to get a msiion going..
We sure in the hell bettr have Air starts for Hi alt misssions..
Nothing crappier for me is grabbing to 25k in the Scenarios
I hate wasting virtual time...
Airstart both groups..Axis at 20k..allies at 20k...or whatever prescribed alt..
Of course you woudl give atleast a 25 miel seperation before airstarts..ATleast give the pilots som credit for skill in keeping there formations together
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TOD is up and working......
The turnout in SEA is always pretty good...usually 150+ when I fly it on Fridays...
Obviously the format will be different but the idea is the same. The real question will be proportionate usage...it takes time to stage and launch a mission based system....so you need an hour+ to play...no "quickies"....
Also you have less flexibility....last time I was up in TOD I was in a 26 (got 2 hangers and something BTW...:))....now I wasnt joing when I said lets go down and strafe the field (and any landing cripples:aok )...of course we RTB'd as per mission brief...
All in all I think TOD will be less than the "hardcore" guys think and much much more than the CT...which basically devolved to a bunch of lamers....
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Originally posted by humble
All in all I think TOD will be less than the "hardcore" guys think and much much more than the CT...which basically devolved to a bunch of lamers....
Appreciate that thought, Humble.
- oldman
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Originally posted by humble
All in all I think TOD will be less than the "hardcore" guys think and much much more than the CT...which basically devolved to a bunch of lamers....
wow!!! what does that make you then mr. not so humble? it seems like every time you step into the CT your head is served up immediately and repeatedly.
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I've always known I'm a lamer I just don't see why people have to continually point it out. It's not like I go around calling the MA a potatohouse, which it is.
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I think it will be all the rage until all the missions become stale and repeat then it's back to MA and the 5 others go back to the CT.
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Originally posted by Oldman731
Appreciate that thought, Humble.
- oldman
Hehe....
Obviously it painted an awful broad stroke and tarred a few to many.....you have my sincere appologies in that regard....
However, there is a reason the CT has devolved and the reason (as far as I'm concerned) is the overall caliber (or lack there of) of its core player group....a few of whom posted after you. This is coming from someone who spent alot of time there for 2+ years.
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whats the CT?
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Originally posted by storch
wow!!! what does that make you then mr. not so humble? it seems like every time you step into the CT your head is served up immediately and repeatedly.
Gee last couple times I was in the CT I think it was 1 on 10 or 12...which is just how you guys seem to like it. And thats not just from me...it was brought up repeatedly again and again till folks stopped bothering...which is why almost no one flys in the CT....
sorry if you dont like hearing the truth...the CT is dead because you and guys like you beat it to death.
BTW I'm easy to find anytime you want to see if you can find my head...or any other part of me:)
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Originally posted by humble
Gee last couple times I was in the CT I think it was 1 on 10 or 12...which is just how you guys seem to like it. And thats not just from me...it was brought up repeatedly again and again till folks stopped bothering...which is why almost no one flys in the CT....
sorry if you dont like hearing the truth...the CT is dead because you and guys like you beat it to death.
BTW I'm easy to find anytime you want to see if you can find my head...or any other part of me:)
generally it's the other way around there tough guy. I fly axis and we are usually out numbered.
on a side note if you don't like the arena and never play in it why are you always posting these bizarre digs at the people who choose to play in that arena in this venue?
with regard to the "truth" the truth is that what you post is your opinion. we all know about opinions don't we?
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Killnu.......CT= Combat theater :) its below the MA on the clipboard
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I'm forever flying against my own squad to even things out every night I'm there. So I'm not sure where you get the idea that we do the opposite. I'd love to fly with my squad but I believe balance is more important.
It's funny how everybody not in the CT seems to have the most opnions about it. Those who actually frequent the arena seem to be having a good time. Until, of course, we hear the obligatory 'ct is dead' thread on the boards and it gets us worked up, like I am now.
If there was no CT, I wouldn't even bother playing this game. I see no need to play with 600+ other people when it boils down to a gigantic acrade game set in some alternate history where every plane from WWII are all mashed together in a brothel-like environment.
I wish I had your composure in these matters Oldman, you've got the coolest head in the business. Posts like these just get me pissed off.
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last time i was in there, i called more names in the 1/2 i was there than a whole night in the MA. they told me to go back to MA, so i did. i dont understand why the CT guys post how great it is, or wish they had more participation, yet when new guys(me) come in, they insult them and tell them to go back to MA. one heck of a recruiting style there.
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CT can be the best fights I've found in AH anytime.
plank is an easy kill but will happily HO you in anyplane :D, and storch always makes sure he has the advantage, but they are polite and fun to fly against or with in my experience.
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To digress from the CT gang pursefighting, I'm gonna go with Howitzer on this one. Once I have some real details or specs, I might form an opinion. I'd like to have those things now, but I'll be patient. Hope it lives up to/exceeds the hype. (also hope no gamey airstarts. Only takes a matter of minutes to get to strato alts, but that's just my opinion )
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Originally posted by mechanic
CT can be the best fights I've found in AH anytime.
plank is an easy kill but will happily HO you in anyplane :D, and storch always makes sure he has the advantage, but they are polite and fun to fly against or with in my experience.
1. Try to secure every advantage before attacking. If possible, try to keep the sun behind you.
2. Always carry through your attack when you have started it.
3. Fire only at close range and only when your opponenet is properly in your sights.
4. Always keep your eyes on your opponent. Never be deceived by ruses.
5. In any form of attack it is essential to attack your opponent from behind.
6. If your opponent dives on you, do not try to evade his onslaught but fly to meet it.
7. When over enemy lines always remember your line of retreat.
8. Always attack in groups of four or six. When the fights break up into individual combat take care that several do not attack one opponent.
Tell me two things please. Where do I fail in faithfully following this dicta. Who authored it?
:D
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Originally posted by mechanic
CT can be the best fights I've found in AH anytime.
plank is an easy kill but will happily HO you in anyplane :D, and storch always makes sure he has the advantage, but they are polite and fun to fly against or with in my experience.
LOL, hey it's the only way I can get a kill sometimes. I usually reserve the HO for when I already got downed 15 times in a row and it makes me feel better :)
It was good to see alot of the guys from the MA in there, batfink especially. Aside from my ho'ing we had some good fights and he showed me the proper way to tool someone with a p-40. Now, if only I could do the same.
Hope you continue frequenting the CT mate. :aok
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If they borrowed the mission/objective idea from America's Army, put me in historical situations (or semi-historical) and set decent victory conditions for each side (even if the victory conditions were different for each side) and set the timer around 15 minutes (yeah, even if it meant air start) for each round in the match...
I'd be IN.
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Plank,
I can only base my opinion on my own experience...I used to fly the CT all the time. Since I dont care what plane I'm in I'd always go to the side with the lowest #'s. The last time I stopped in it happened to be during the okinowa setup...since allies were dominant I launched some flavor of rice rocket off the southern tip and flew out toward the allied dar bar...was 10+ guys in a gaggle...which turned into a 1 on gang....upped and repeated...commented on 200 and got back a mouthful of #$@$ from storch and company....so I left. Just that simple, and that was same as the last 5,6 times I'd tried the CT.
Now I'd of happily flown 1 on 2,3 even 4 all night...but it reaches a point where it has no entertainment value. I could care less about score but I want some measure of "quality" fight.
Over the last 18 months I've found both a higher caliber of skill and game play in the MA then in the CT....by far...and 99.5% of the population
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The TOD could work and still suffer the fate of the CT.
Some of the characteristics of the TOD are no brainers.
-Historic aircraft matchups.
-Historic Maps.
-Some mechanism to force players to stick to the mission they have been assigned.
-Some mechanism to generate those missions in a way that will create fights.
-Yet some mechanism to encourage people to pursue the mission to anything short of dying.
Some of the characteristics of the TOD are a little more difficult to envision.
-Ranking system
-Missions that cant be gamed into oblivion.
-Numbers ballancing.
-AI behavior.
-Death penalty.
-sitting between missions.
I think the mission server will have to note who is in the "tower" and ask how long they will wait for a mission. Propose a mission that would take only the people waiting in the tower and then scale it as more might become available. I see the server forceing side ballanceing or forcing the heavy numbers side to areas where there will be little oposition and only keep a relative ballanced force to oppose the enemy.
IE 20 Germans and 10 brits on. Send 1 Brit in a mosqito on a recce mission and 4 Germans to intercept. Do that on two fronts and leave 8 Brits to fight the 12 Germans atacking shiping.
I guess you could just send two groups of Germans to areas where there would be no enemy or to intercept AI only formations but something has to be done to level numbers.
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Originally posted by storch
1. Try to secure every advantage before attacking. If possible, try to keep the sun behind you.
2. Always carry through your attack when you have started it.
3. Fire only at close range and only when your opponenet is properly in your sights.
4. Always keep your eyes on your opponent. Never be deceived by ruses.
5. In any form of attack it is essential to attack your opponent from behind.
6. If your opponent dives on you, do not try to evade his onslaught but fly to meet it.
7. When over enemy lines always remember your line of retreat.
8. Always attack in groups of four or six. When the fights break up into individual combat take care that several do not attack one opponent.
Tell me two things please. Where do I fail in faithfully following this dicta. Who authored it?
:D
Boelcke 1891 - 1916
http://www.jastaboelcke.de/
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Hmmm, maybe missions of different sizes and some with more modest goals? Just huge 8AF raids late in the war wouldn't be very appealing for very long. I'd personally think that smaller missions in smaller terrains with more modest goals would be a better start. Milkruns/nuisance raids in mossies, tank/vehicle busting in the african theater, il2/yak runs on the eastern front, fighter sweeps by the LW, etc. While more terrains might need to be available to start, surely smaller terrains with more limited mission scope would be easier to setup/troubleshoot and acclimate people who're used to the MA style of fighting. As intrigued by the idea of ToD as I am, if its nothing but escort duty for high alt bombers, I'll stick with the MA and the occasional spec events.
Just thinking out loud here, don't mind me.
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sorry if you dont like hearing the truth...the CT is dead because you and guys like you beat it to death.
Seeing that you don't spend more than 1 or 2 hops in the CT each time you come in humble, I rank your opinion down in the sticky stuff lying around the bottom of the barrel.
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I fly TOD on Fridays as well and I don't think the TOD is anything like the CT. Even though TOD is based on a given battle or theater like the CT is, the TOD is more mission based. In the TOD it isn't enough just to kill the other guy, you have to stop him from completing his/her mission. It's that very thing that makes the TOD a blast to fly in.
If I'm in a bomber and hit my target (say a fuel dump) then get shot down, I still win because the target was destroyed and in the following mission that fuel isn't available. It doesn't matter what plane set they get the next mission because they're only going to have 25% fuel and with fuel burn set to 1.5 or 2.0, they all become gliders real quick and the lesser fighters rule the day.
Another thing is the numbers. CT has unlimited fighters and bombers of a given set. In TOD the numbers are set to a given amount to match the ratio of the historic battle. Example, in CT the N1K is in unlimited numbers even if perked. In TOD on a given day there might only be 15 N1K's and when those are gone, they're gone.
The CT is only different from the MA in that only certain planes are available, but the fighting is still the same, furballing on the deck in among the trees. Which is fine by me because the pilots in the CT tend to have better flying skills in a given plane set.
However the TOD offers a change in that it's more realistic. If two p47's sneak in and sink the CV my squad just upped from and we kill them my squad of 20 gets two kills where as the Jugs get to split 20 kills between them because there is no other place for us to land without some serious lean flying and I have seen just that kind of thing happen.
That is why most that fly TOD, like it. It has outcome and effect. Something that the CT just doesn't have. Most of the guys I know in TOD really don't care what side they are on, most have fun flying for both sides, as do I. If you want to make the CT more like a real event in history, then do as they do in TOD, make it just one life. You'd be surpised at how fast you learn to make a P-40B to sit up and bark if you know that you only get one chance.
OK, I'll get off the soap box now. Personally I think it's the dweeb in the cockpit and how he fights, not the performance of his/her aircraft. I predict great things for the CT in the future, and even better missions to follow in the TOD. I would suggest you fly both, and on both sides.
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I thought this post was to discuss the up and comming TOD...
but alas its typical of the likes of some of the CT gang to spoil..
by the way storch .. i enjoyed the childish name calling and threats in MA the other night on private channel.. my wife and I laughed and laughed... what was it you put up on private text,, somthing like " if you say anything bad about the Ct im gonna kill you"? and what was that name you called me ? "tw@t"?it was somthing like that... thats the sort of thing that keeps me and my squad out of CT....nice one..
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Originally posted by humble
Plank,
I can only base my opinion on my own experience...I used to fly the CT all the time. Since I dont care what plane I'm in I'd always go to the side with the lowest #'s. The last time I stopped in it happened to be during the okinowa setup...since allies were dominant I launched some flavor of rice rocket off the southern tip and flew out toward the allied dar bar...was 10+ guys in a gaggle...which turned into a 1 on gang....upped and repeated...commented on 200 and got back a mouthful of #$@$ from storch and company....so I left. Just that simple, and that was same as the last 5,6 times I'd tried the CT.
Now I'd of happily flown 1 on 2,3 even 4 all night...but it reaches a point where it has no entertainment value. I could care less about score but I want some measure of "quality" fight.
Over the last 18 months I've found both a higher caliber of skill and game play in the MA then in the CT....by far...and 99.5% of the population
I'm never, ever on 200 ever. I never start the verbage but will gladly , joyfully respond to an assault. If you treat me with civility I respond in kind. Plus unless you repeatedly change your handle I've never even seen you on. that in and of itself speaks volumes about you.
let's analyze your last statement.
1. I usually fly axis not always but usually. so perhaps memory fails and you flew allied.
2. I'm never on 200 so perhaps you meant Ch1 and memory again fails you.
3. you were having a bad day and you "commented" on ch 200 to a guy that wasn't on there and he responded? hmmm I don't get it. you don't want to catch attitude from me then don't engage me.
4. the only guy I recall being purposely rude to is Dedalos. He watched me turn for five minutes with an opponent. when I finally got the advantage on the opponent he drops in and picks the guy. I told him that I didn't appreciate that and that I didn't need his help. It was a very well flown fight between me in a Ki61 and the opponent (who I never even fired at) in an FM2. Dedalos responded with a rude comment and I turn was rude to Dedalos. I asked him not to even give me a check six ever again.
let me offer some solutions, this what I would do if you annoyed me.
1. .squelch storch
or
2. find storch's address, visit him and kick his arse.
or
3. stfu and play the stupid game.
some of you guys are real gems.
:D
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Sorta strange to me seeing the air start launch idea being tossed around for TOD.
From what I`ve seen about TOD you could more than easily say I am less than interested in it, but the things left unsaid might, just might, lure me in after the start if enough people who I value their opinions gave it a big enough rating. The things that have been unclear and left unsaid such as realism and immersion factor, if good enough would be about the only thing that would get me interested enough in it to give it a whirl in a pinch. I`m just not much of a box gamer i guess. What would be a definite cinch to keep me totaly uninterested would be the implementation of air starts. That would seal the deal by taking away realism and even the most minute chance of immersion for me.
Just goes to show what HT has to deal with.
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Sorry if I started to get angry with my second post but the CT has a special place in my heart. I was about to give up on AH until one day the MA went down. I looked on the arena list and said 'Hm, combat theater, wonder what that's all about?'
I hopped in and realized that I had been mining coal in the MA all the while I was sitting on a diamond. I couldn't believe I had overlooked it the whole time I was in there and I never looked back.
I up every now and then in the MA and it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Pilot quality aside (I have no right to judge others since I suck so bad) it just doesn't feel right to me being in a formation of 110's and get jumped by a la7, p51, and 190 all at the same time. Not that I care how good the plane is, it just feels wrong to have all those different planes from different countries and theaters team up. Like I said before, it feels like some wacky alternate universe, not a WWII flight sim.
I'm obviously in the minority, the numbers speak for themselves.
I'm sorry you've had a sour experience in there humble, in my own time I've found it to be something quite different.
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Originally posted by Longdist
I fly TOD on Fridays as well and I don't think the TOD is anything like the CT.
Pssssst.............YO! What is being asked about here is TOD, the upcoming addition to Aces High. An entirely new game so to speak.
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"Where do I fail in faithfully following this dicta. Who authored it? "
The guy who wrote that was flying a 100 MPH wood and fabric deathtrap armed with 1 unreliable gun, not a 350 MPH killing machine armed with banks of automatic cannon.
Incedentally, he didn't survive the war, and neither did his star pupil.
J_A_B
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I prefer Malan's 10 rules for air fighting-
1. Wait until you see the whites of his eyes. Fire short bursts of one to two seconds only when your sights are definitely "ON"
2. Whilst shooting think of nothing else, brace the whole of your body: have both hands on the stick: concentrate on your ring sight.
3. Always keep a sharp lookout. "Keep your finger out".
4. Height gives you the initiative.
5. Always turn and face the attack.
6. Make your decisions promptly. It is better to act quickly even though your tactics are not the best.
7. Never fly straight and level for more than 30 seconds in the combat area.
8. When diving to attack always leave a proportion of your formation above to act as a top guard.
9. INITIATIVE, AGGRESSION, AIR DISCIPLINE, and TEAM WORK are words that MEAN something in Air Fighting.
10. Go in quickly - Punch hard - Get out!
Mainly because Malan is my fave pilot of ww2.:)
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Originally posted by storch
I'm never, ever on 200 ever. I never start the verbage but will gladly , joyfully respond to an assault. If you treat me with civility I respond in kind. Plus unless you repeatedly change your handle I've never even seen you on. that in and of itself speaks volumes about you.
let's analyze your last statement.
1. I usually fly axis not always but usually. so perhaps memory fails and you flew allied.
2. I'm never on 200 so perhaps you meant Ch1 and memory again fails you.
3. you were having a bad day and you "commented" on ch 200 to a guy that wasn't on there and he responded? hmmm I don't get it. you don't want to catch attitude from me then don't engage me.
4. the only guy I recall being purposely rude to is Dedalos. He watched me turn for five minutes with an opponent. when I finally got the advantage on the opponent he drops in and picks the guy. I told him that I didn't appreciate that and that I didn't need his help. It was a very well flown fight between me in a Ki61 and the opponent (who I never even fired at) in an FM2. Dedalos responded with a rude comment and I turn was rude to Dedalos. I asked him not to even give me a check six ever again.
let me offer some solutions, this what I would do if you annoyed me.
1. .squelch storch
or
2. find storch's address, visit him and kick his arse.
or
3. stfu and play the stupid game.
some of you guys are real gems.
:D
Everytime I comment on or about the CT you seem to want to get up close and personal about it....
I specifically remember you being both rude & obnoxious...maybe I caught you on a bad day...truthfully I could care less one way or another. I've flown here since Beta and online since 1994...cant think of more than 2 or 3 times I've ever been "uncivil"...
The real issue here isnt me...or you...
The sad reality is the CT isnt what it used to be...I havent seen high enough numbers to even warrent a trip in months. When ever I post an "attack" (which is nothing other than a pretty candid observation of the reality of the CT) you and others immediately make it a "humble sucks" issue instead of dealing with the issue at hand....
As I've said before to you and others....
anytime anyplace anyplane
Now I'd love to have a 1 on 1...or a 1 on 2...or a 1 on 3 sometime in the CT...
What you described is beyond my recent experience...I havent found anything less then a gaggle in the CT....I have all kinds of great 1 on 1's in the MA with 400+ people on....but cant find a decent fight in the CT.
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Originally posted by SELECTOR
I thought this post was to discuss the up and comming TOD...
but alas its typical of the likes of some of the CT gang to spoil..
by the way storch .. i enjoyed the childish name calling and threats in MA the other night on private channel.. my wife and I laughed and laughed... what was it you put up on private text,, somthing like " if you say anything bad about the Ct im gonna kill you"? and what was that name you called me ? "tw@t"?it was somthing like that... thats the sort of thing that keeps me and my squad out of CT....nice one..
LOL....
sounds just like the noob I know....
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This pissing match is GHEY.
You ladies need to start putting some ass, behind those swings.
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Originally posted by humble
Everytime I comment on or about the CT you seem to want to get up close and personal about it....
Humble, that's all you can expect from these guys.
In a different thread I asked a question that went unanswered, although this thread answers it quite succinctly.
Why is it that a dead skunk draws a bigger crowd than the CT?
My regards,
Widewing
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storch, im guessing it was winston who wrote that, or someother UK guy, sounds clever so must be :)
and you dont fly in packs of 4 to 6.
plank, you know i was fooling mate, we had some real goos fights and i think you only ho'ed after i got lucky twice in rapid succesion :)
I'll be in CT alot more if MA remains the same.
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haha Humble. NO worries bro. They can't cut it in the MA so they play pretend in the CT.
Every time I would go to the CT I'd be called a cherry picker for grabbing and running down the tard that just picked me while I was in a fight ealier.
Or I'd be told to go back to the MA for helping out a friendly that clearly was about to die. I wrecked their gang bang is more like it.
Just can't win.
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I think they should fight it out, thunderdome style. TWO MEN ENTER, ONE MAN LEAVES.
I've stated my views on the CT on more than 1 occasion so i dont think i shall this thread.
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I tried CT agin last night, looked like LW had a somewhat better plane set (G2, G6, A5)... vs. La5 and H2C---20 guys, 13 or so were LW.... most all of them were one squad...got into a 1 on....many... most every time up (1 on ONE taxes MY abilities;) Saw several showing up 15-20k before entering the fight (for which they already had overwhelming #'s) ...I dont mind dying every time..if I can at least have a FIGHT; (DID have a few good fights at first).... (WHY else would ya come to CT except to furball?) Low numbers preclude anythin else--Anyhow, the whole lot of 8-10 of them would whack ya at once...no dog fight, just a summary execution...in the end they orbited the base and vulched. NOW, HOW is this better than the MA? Peeps who criticize the CT who dont FLY CT PROBably dont fly there much because they have had similar experiences. ..What was this thread about..oh yah, TOD, Im all for it;
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Originally posted by Widewing
Humble, that's all you can expect from these guys.
In a different thread I asked a question that went unanswered, although this thread answers it quite succinctly.
Why is it that a dead skunk draws a bigger crowd than the CT?
My regards,
Widewing
Widewing....
What I dont understand is the need to make a general observation personal. Especially since were not dealing with the "wundersticks" here. Since I tend to post some stuff (both good and bad) in the training forum its not hard to get a measure of where I stand in the overall scheme of things...certainly not the ace of aces and not a total noob either.
Now if I'm sitting there mouthing off with a "I'm better than all you wuzzes"..."you cant beat me cept when you gang me" "you all are chumps" then I can see the hostility. All I've said repeatedly is they fly in gaggles and gang the odd guy out and I dont see the logic in hanging around since "they" dont seem to want to square things up.
What I find funny is the high esteem they hold themselfs in and the distain they have for the "MA" folks when with a few notable exceptions lik oldman they are basically middle of the pack at best.
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Originally posted by bj229r
I tried CT agin last night, looked like LW had a somewhat better plane set (G2, G6, A5)... vs. La5 and H2C---20 guys, 13 or so were LW.... most all of them were one squad...got into a 1 on....many... most every time up (1 on ONE taxes MY abilities;) Saw several showing up 15-20k before entering the fight (for which they already had overwhelming #'s) ...I dont mind dying every time..if I can at least have a FIGHT; (DID have a few good fights at first).... (WHY else would ya come to CT except to furball?) Low numbers preclude anythin else--Anyhow, the whole lot of 8-10 of them would whack ya at once...no dog fight, just a summary execution...in the end they orbited the base and vulched. NOW, HOW is this better than the MA? Peeps who criticize the CT who dont FLY CT PROBably dont fly there much because they have had similar experiences. ..What was this thread about..oh yah, TOD, Im all for it;
Exactly my experience...yet these same guys will taunt you and call you out from the safety of 10 friends and 10k in alt:)
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in the end they orbited the base and vulched.
Before piping in humble, maybe you should have been there... the vulching was taking place by the 68's squad from the MA. Most CT regulars will let you get some alt before engaging unless a base capture is in progress.
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"You guys" "These guys" "Those people"
Keep making those generlistic comments and your guaranteed to get a negative response.
I can't help but take it as a personal attack when people use terms like this.
And batfink, no worries I know you're just jesting. :aok
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The 68's were on my side..I remember thinkin..."that Devil bastid has prolly kilt me 100 times;"
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"You guys" "These guys" "Those people"
that is a generization, meaning people that fly in CT, not a particular group/squad. seeing the responses from a particlular squad tho, seems some have a guilty conscience. sure seems his generiizing things was a nice way of pointing out what he thought was bad and could need some attention, not calling out a squad and telling them they are ruining it. at least, that is the way i read it.
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Originally posted by SELECTOR
I thought this post was to discuss the up and comming TOD...
but alas its typical of the likes of some of the CT gang to spoil..
by the way storch .. i enjoyed the childish name calling and threats in MA the other night on private channel.. my wife and I laughed and laughed... what was it you put up on private text,, somthing like " if you say anything bad about the Ct im gonna kill you"? and what was that name you called me ? "tw@t"?it was somthing like that... thats the sort of thing that keeps me and my squad out of CT....nice one..
after chasing you for 2 sectors, just you and I, no one else around both of us in 190s (an amazing thing for the MA) I finally caught you in your ack and shot you down. when I saw the message system: you have shot down selector I privated you "the next time you run your mouth on the bbs I will post what a avacado you are". so here is the post true to my word. is humble in your squad? he should be. he dies as easily as you do. good flying ace, thanks for playing. ;)
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As a general rule I tend to make a broad based observation instead of a personal attack. When a specific individual like oldman takes offense I'm quick to clarify....he is and has been a class act as long as I've known him. I'm sure there are others in the CT as well...
VWE...
I simply was commenting on the similarity between my experience and bj229r's (as well as cobra412 and many others).
Now I have no clue who these mythical "fair fight" CT fliers are...I'd guess they're like unicorns since you dont ever seem to run into them but others claim they exist:).
Plank...
killnu is right on, I'm trying to avoid getting personal. All of you defending the CT can decide if the shoe fits individually. Personally I'd love to see the CT take off and grow again. For that to happen you need a greater sense of awareness about the issues. We all want to fly with our friends and we all want to "win"...the CT has just gotten so out of whack that the insiders dont seem to see it regardless of how many posts bring it up....so since the "newbies" trickle in....the "old guard" dont see it...but the potential new blood just takes a look shrugs and leaves....
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Originally posted by humble
LOL....
sounds just like the noob I know....
tell you what, why don't un-noobiate me some? impress me with your uberveteranacyness some day. if you do I will gladly eat crow. most people that know me know that I fight and seldom run and I'm not overly concerned with how often I get shot down or what my score is. I usually fly alone or at the most with my wingy N7.
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seeing the responses from a particlular squad tho, seems some have a guilty conscience.
Well spit it out, let us know what your really thinking instead of tip toeing through the tulips. I really like to hear the perspective of the sometimes or nevertimes bbs CT flyers. I'm in there almost every night, poke your head in there and fly with us before painting this board with your broad brush.
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Originally posted by mechanic
storch, im guessing it was winston who wrote that, or someother UK guy, sounds clever so must be :)
and you dont fly in packs of 4 to 6.
plank, you know i was fooling mate, we had some real goos fights and i think you only ho'ed after i got lucky twice in rapid succesion :)
I'll be in CT alot more if MA remains the same.
Schaden nailed it BFV.
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Originally posted by Widewing
Humble, that's all you can expect from these guys.
In a different thread I asked a question that went unanswered, although this thread answers it quite succinctly.
Why is it that a dead skunk draws a bigger crowd than the CT?
My regards,
Widewing
In that different thread, I asked you for your opinion(s) on the reason for the decline in numbers in the CT since AH2 was introduced. You have yet to respond.
Humble, people are getting up front and personal because there is an implicit, and, on this occasion, an explicit theme in your posts that the CT is populated by losers who somehow can't make it in the MA. You, Morpheus, Selector, Widewing and others are doing the same thing in this thread. How could you really expect that you wouldn't draw a personal counter-reaction?
- oldman
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what the heck did I do? :(
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Well, thus far, EVERYONE who has criticised the CT has been wrong... provincial, condescending....everyone who has posted who seems to fly CT has been a victim, unfairly accused...? For CT to be more popular, I think, it has to be a nice alternative to the more negative aspects of the MA (GANGING, LA7's, mob rule....impersonal) As I can see, CT is more a small version of those things, rather than an alternative to them. That being said, I prolly pop in once a week or so and get waxed, before I go H2H and look fer somethin more appealing.
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Originally posted by Oldman731
In that different thread, I asked you for your opinion(s) on the reason for the decline in numbers in the CT since AH2 was introduced. You have yet to respond.
Humble, people are getting up front and personal because there is an implicit, and, on this occasion, an explicit theme in your posts that the CT is populated by losers who somehow can't make it in the MA. You, Morpheus, Selector, Widewing and others are doing the same thing in this thread. How could you really expect that you wouldn't draw a personal counter-reaction?
- oldman
Couldn't have said it better myself. I suppose it's half my fault for taking it personal and making it personal. I don't feel it's a 'if the shoe fits' scenario. Those who have flown with me know I'm as humble as they come, I don't boast because I have nothing to boast about. I get angry, sure, but I quickly try and put myself in check.
I'll try to take things with more a grain of salt.
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Originally posted by bj229r
Well, thus far, EVERYONE who has criticised the CT has been wrong... provincial, condescending....everyone who has posted who seems to fly CT has been a victim, unfairly accused...? For CT to be more popular, I think, it has to be a nice alternative to the more negative aspects of the MA (GANGING, LA7's, mob rule....impersonal) As I can see, CT is more a small version of those things, rather than an alternative to them. That being said, I prolly pop in once a week or so and get waxed, before I go H2H and look fer somethin more appealing.
I'm sorry that you have had that experience. If i may enquire, how long do you stay in the CT? I think I do far worse in the CT than I do in the MA but I may be wrong. It seems I hardly ever land a sortie in the CT.
I'll say this again as it bears repeating. we see many visitors from the MA and with them they bring MA values and play style. often they shoot down other MA players who become disgruntled and log off. later we see the posts stating that the CT is the retard's MA and what not. I am qualified to offer an educated opinion because I spend a considerable amount of my abundant discreationary time in both arenas. The CT is significantly different from the MA, except when it's full of MA players.
Last night was a good example. players from the 68th Lightning Lancers showed up in good numbers as well as some players from the JBs. the arena was rife with taunts on the open channel and vultching was wholesale from both sides.
It doesn't matter who started it those such as yourself leave with the impression that it is the same as the MA. Last night it certainly was.
having said that for my part I had a blast. even though I was vultched, raped, reamed, gangbanged and cursed at. in fact I was even called a "bugger". so what? to me it's part of the spice of the game.
some of you nuggets take all of this far too seriously. didn't anyone who play this attend schools?
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Originally posted by humble
All in all I think TOD will be less than the "hardcore" guys think and much much more than the CT...which basically devolved to a bunch of lamers....
Humble,
Until a few months ago I flew almost entirely in the CT, and to this day I can not recall ever seeing you in there. That is not to say that I dont beleive you or your opinions are invalid. I actually agree with you that the CT has problems, largely coming from a particular few who are then turned into "the CT" by the generalists here on the BBS.
I'll fight any odds and not complain, I dont vulch in the CT (MA is another story), I dont ever intentionally follow a horde or gangbang (unless its Shane who I will gang relentlessly :) ), and Oldman is the main member of my CT squad The Gunfighters, who's only purpose is to switch sides when things are uneven. As much as I agree with you about certain things in the CT, I'd appreciate it if you started being more specific in your condemnations and not paint us all as "gangbanging lamers".
Morph said:
Originally posted by Morpheus
haha Humble. NO worries bro. They can't cut it in the MA so they play pretend in the CT.
Thats why Oldman is upset with you.
I only remember seeing you in the CT once, many months ago, probably close to 8-10 months ago. It was FinRus just as now. I had just taken off in an La5, and you and I think it was Yucca were VERY high in some LW plane. You to your credit asked me if I was ready, to which I replied "I'm wheels up, thats all I need, come on down". You promptly came down and shot me out of the sky twice, and then left, probably sensing I was quite a bit below your skill level and not much of a challenge.
Whats this got to do with anything? What you did, asking me if I was ready before you spanked me, is not as rare as you might think in the CT and does happen more often than some on the BBS would have have you believe. Oldman and I are somewhat the exception, we stay out of fights if it looks like its a good 1 v 1, we dont gang people, we dont vulch (again, I do in the MA, but thats different) and the two of us are a squad that our only reason for being is to switch sides to even things up, but we are not the only ones, others do it too.
I guess what I am saying is, those of you that want to criticize the CT, do so some of it is very warranted, but BE SPECIFIC[/b] and name names, and dont throw all of us into your generalities.
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i think the trick will be getting the pace of the action right...if you have tried out TARGETWARES game rabul then you will know that this is a mission based game..unfortunatly this game i feel dosn't work because the pace isn't quite right.
posted by selector
target rabual is still under heavy development, as are all the mods for targetware, and thats the reason its taking so long for it to get done.
with the .65 update things are going to change big time, the campaign system will be completely re-hashed, and a wealth of new planes and flightmodel updates are in the mix, target tobruk, will be released soon, so the lw and raf planes will start popping up, as well as the itialian air force.
dont judge tw in its current form just like you cant judge ah in its state, both are going to be having some ground breaking work produced this year.
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Originally posted by Morpheus
LOL if you call half a sector away "waiting for you to get wheels up" then you've got much larger problems in life than people bad mouthing your CT.
Honestly, it was a long time ago, and I had only been flying AH six weeks at that time, I may not have the details completely right. It was probably the second time I upped after being shot down (very quickly too) when you asked if it was OK to come in, which I thought was rather nice on your part, you didnt have to do it. That was the point of my story, to compliment you on behavior that I would like to see more often in the CT.
Yucca and I were otd in G2's. The only reason I remember is becuase it WAS one of the few times' I've set foot in there. We turn fought until we were out of ammo and left.
I remember you guys being higher than me, and you came down and killed me both times on the very first pass. That event stuck in my mind because, (1) I rarely, even at less than two months experience, got killed on the first BnZ pass, and (2) I didnt know who you were, I'd never seen you before and it therefore made an impression that you were pretty damn good. That was not really my point, that was just background information so that you might remember the encounter. I was trying to point out that what you did, letting me get up the second time and not just ganging me, isnt isolated to you, others who are CT "regulars" do it too. It doesnt happen enough, but those that frequent the CT are not all ganging, vulching, verbally abusive arses, just like not all MA folks are timid, ganging, shed killing, astronaut scorepotatos who only engage when they have a horde, alt, and a faster plane in their favor. I can make just as many accurate generalizations about the MA that are 100% true, yet do not describe how you play the game, just as others on the BBS make accurate criticizims of some in the CT while not describing my gameplay.
Skill? Yeah... Bring it.
I know you are better than me, but I'm always looking for ways to improve. I'll fight you or anybody else, anywhere, anytime and in any plane, I'm not afraid to get thumped. I'll surely get my arse kicked, but I dont care, thats how you learn. The quickest way to get better is fighting those better than you, not clubbing baby seals.
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Spinning your wheels Grits. Your dealing with an "elite". Youve some how challenged his ego. How I dont know.
Could you have picked a worse combination of people to represent their "sides" ?
Storch and VWE vs Widewing and Humble.
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I think the AI part of it suxx0rs. BUT! <---- and that's a big but. I think that if TOD was an all player based arena with forced mission participation and server (not player) assigned squads. I think it would be awesome! Just like signing up for the service in the 30s or 40s. Sing in, sign up, and fight. Only problem that would face us is drawing the #s from the "Club MA" (insert funky electro-jive :D )
All in all, I think it's allready a hit in my book. However, the idea of fighting AI foes really turns me off. I pay for an online MMOG WWII flightsim. I can battle drones with any boxed sim that would cost me less than AH does in a year.
(just my humble opinion)
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Could you have picked a worse combination of people to represent their "sides" ?
Park it on the curb you omnipitant putz...
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I have to say, I'm really enjoying reading this. There's basically two threads going on at once, and, for the most part, the people involved in one are completely ignoring the other. Yet, for two pages, both threads continue.
That's an accomplishment fellas :aok
I feel like juggling:
As for the CT -
(From my limited experience) It's pretty much the same as the MA - But don't take that as a bad thing!
Sometimes there's good fights (kind of like how there's good fights around 4am EST in the MA usually)
Sometimes there's gang bangs. Just like the MA.
The only difference is, with <20 people on at once, you're more likely to run into someone that will give you a great fight one on one, and in the same sense, if you're getting ganged, you're more likely to get even more ganged than the MA (you're less likely to have help).
As for TOD -
I was paying more attention to the CT thread.
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I think the CT thread is a little more spicey... so don't go throwin the train off the tracks! ;)
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Park it on the curb you omnipitant putz...
or what? What else are you possibly going to do to drive people out of the CT? You have amlost reached your goal of the CT being your private little sandbox. My only question is who are you going to berate, whine about, or run off when its only your squad left in there? You going to start feeding on your own then?
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Name 1 person whom I have berated in the CT while playing slash... give some examples, post some screen shots of text. I've never tuned to channell 200, not in the CT or the MA. I give salutes to those that really gave me a tough time. I give 6 calls to everyone including you not to mention clearing even your six. I talk on squad 95% of the time so almost no one ever hears a peep out of me outside of squad.
Don't come at me with sour grapes because you didn't step up to the plate when leardership was needed. You and your condisending attitude need to go back to what ever rock you've been under these last couple of weeks and stay there.
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Go back to my rock? I know it upsets you when others wander in to your "turf". Why dont you try stepping up to the plate and get a hold of your squad? "Leadership", you got alot of nerve using that term.
And as far as "proof" of you and your squads actions, all one needs to do is drop in one night and watch. The first time one of you gets shot down here it comes.
100% of the problems with the CT dont lie with you and your squad. But there is an underlying factor with too much of the bs in there. And its you and members of your squad.
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Humble with all do respect stfu. Untill you fly in the CT and I dont mean go in there fly one sortie for 5mins and log. I mean fly there about 6 outa every 7 days a week about 2-4 hours a day sometimes more for almost 4 years THEN say something about it. "Oh i flew in the CT for 2 years" that musta been 1999-2001 cuz I have NEVER seen you in there. Even then thats was a long time ago. Alot has changed since then. Tuesdays and Thursdays are squad nights if you want a good fight, but the best fights I'v been in is when there we're no more then ten ppl. in the CT. The CT is what keeps me playing this game. Shure I like the MA but i dont like the idea of fighting a 109 in my 190. And shure some ppl in the CT have a big mouth I have been known to talk watermelon but now that I'm a CM I'v been nice to everyone in the CT even though some I hate. But I hardly ever hear ppl. post stuff on the BBS about it, but when someone does it in the CT OMG it like that worlds ganna end. People are going to vulch, gangbang, trash talk, milk, be alt. monkey, est. its part of the game, its part of all games just deal with it just like i deal with all the spittards in the MA shut up or put up.
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TOD? According to all signs, TOD is very low in HTC priority list. It is delayed and delayed and delayed, and when it is done, it probably won't be what people expect it to do. So the best you can do -- simply forget about it. If by some miracle it is released, and by the other one it is good, then great, if not, well, at least you won't have another disappointment.
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Originally posted by Fariz
TOD? According to all signs, TOD is very low in HTC priority list. It is delayed and delayed and delayed, and when it is done, it probably won't be what people expect it to do. So the best you can do -- simply forget about it. If by some miracle it is released, and by the other one it is good, then great, if not, well, at least you won't have another disappointment.
low prio?
Its top prio after the game engine. You might think that the changes in 2.03 are for MA, your wrong. The changes in 2.03 are for the game engine. The game engine that ToD will be based off and yes MA is based of as well.
You cant really start codeing a game if the game engine isnt working as it should.
Tex
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Will ToD bust or not?
Good question.
There are a few key points.
1. Action.
How much action will there be?
How long transition times to the action? (too long == booring, too short == too gamey).
2. Game play.
How deep will gameplay be?
3. How will players handle the plane sets?
Obviously the question of this thread but it cant be answered without answering the previous two key points. If the gameplay is deep enough, different from MA, fun and if the action is high enough and the transition times are right then people will be more likely to deal with the plane sets.
The problem the plane sets can cause is that sooo many players are plane dependent in this game. We have seen this in the ENY discussions, "I wount play the game if I cant fly my P-51D". This is also what is one of the problems of CT, people cant fly the only plane they know there.
But this aint the main problem of CT. CT is a restricted MA. Its only different from MA in the fact that its restricted. I like the setups but many dont.
X - Y < X
if Y > 0
That formula will always be true and that is the problem of CT.
ToD will be totally different from MA and hence the importance of the plane set isnt going to be as big. The key thing is to have ballanced matchups. I understnad people dont wana fly P40s against Lalas, Doras and G10s. But against Zekkes, Ki-41s and other same era Jap planes the P-40 is a great plane.
What´s important to note and what HTC is doing right is to use late war for the first Tour. This way 90% of the players will be able to fly "their plane". This gives a chance for the player to get "hooked on the game play" and then they will most likely play the other setups as well because they enjoy the game play ToD adds as they have been introduced to it in a "gentle way".
Personally Im lookin forward to the midwar Tours but know that it will take time before we get there.
Tex
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And as far as "proof" of you and your squads actions, all one needs to do is drop in one night and watch.
Half the people flying for the allies when you showed up were JG54, but your going to see exactly what you want to see.
Leadership, control... 2 things you are unable to impliment within the CM staff. Make real sure yours doesn't reek before pointing out that others do.
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Half the people flying for the allies when you showed up were JG54, but your going to see exactly what you want to see.
What are you talking about?
Leadership, control... 2 things you are unable to impliment within the CM staff. Make real sure yours doesn't reek before pointing out that others do.
What staffers are out of control?
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I've learned something from this thread I think:
1. Noone really knows what ToD is going to be, and that is surprising because I thought some folks actually had a good idea. Would be nice to have a pyro or hitech post about what it is going to be, entirely non-committal.
2. You guys need to get over your CT pissing match. All the arenas are set up for fun, if you get your enjoyment I think you should stay, if you don't then probably leave. Letting someone run you off only gives that person the satisfaction of victory. CT wasn't my bag, but looks like there are some folks who enjoy it, so overall I think it is a good thing.
I think we should un-hijack this thread, because I think a lot of people quit posting here about ToD because of the CT bashing topic that is present through the last 3/4 of the thread. Just my thoughts =)
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I think we should un-hijack this thread,
Yep, gets out of hand quik. Im done here
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Originally posted by Morpheus
This pissing match is GHEY.
You ladies need to start putting some ass, behind those swings.
Agreed Morph, didnt realise I was lighting a match in a gas can.
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Wow, talk about opening a can of worms.
I think this whole thread exposes the problems facing HT with ToD. The main one is how do you make it appealing to a large cross section of the user community? It's quite apparent that the CT isn't doing that.
I have not flown in the CT myself. Why? Because every time I'm on there is hardly anyone in there. It just doesn't look appealing to me to fly with those low numbers. I'd rather go to the DA.
The only way I see the mission based play working is if they are scheduled and we are already doing that in the SEA. Also, unlike RL where someone is in command, how are they going to handle that in ToD? Good missions need leaders so who gets that job? After it's been up for a while folks can achieve rank but whose going to get that role on the 1st missions? Are peeps really going to follow them without a lot of biotching? Unlikely IMO.
Air starts? Don't like it.
AI Planes? Don't like it either. Why do we want HTC spending time developing an AI system that ain't gonna be as challanging as fighting real pilots.
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Originally posted by storch
I never start the verbage but will gladly , joyfully respond to an assault.
Ok I gotta tell it like it is. The 1st time I met you Storch was in the CT. I was flying an LA5...can't remember what you were in. Anyway I got a couple of pings on you and sent you running for your base and the whole time you ran you cried like a little girl and threw many insults at me. Your above statement is some of the biggest BS I've ever read on this board. Loudmouth.
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Originally posted by storch
tell you what, why don't un-noobiate me some? impress me with your uberveteranacyness some day. if you do I will gladly eat crow. most people that know me know that I fight and seldom run and I'm not overly concerned with how often I get shot down or what my score is. I usually fly alone or at the most with my wingy N7.
I'm pretty easy to find...
Those that know me know I always fly alone (cept if squads up) never run and usually can be found in a mid war ride under 10k and could careless about "score"....like I said any time any plane anywhere....
What amazes me is that you make personal attacks about me when I cant even recall last time I ran into you. I've called you out on your attitude and conduct, both of which can be seen for what they are here and elsewhere...I truthfully dont know if your a decent stick or not...and I really could care less. What I know is you dont seem to display much class and I wouldnt be a part of any squad that tolerated guys like you and VWE....
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Originally posted by Grits
Humble,
Until a few months ago I flew almost entirely in the CT, and to this day I can not recall ever seeing you in there. That is not to say that I dont beleive you or your opinions are invalid. I actually agree with you that the CT has problems, largely coming from a particular few who are then turned into "the CT" by the generalists here on the BBS.
I'll fight any odds and not complain, I dont vulch in the CT (MA is another story), I dont ever intentionally follow a horde or gangbang (unless its Shane who I will gang relentlessly :) ), and Oldman is the main member of my CT squad The Gunfighters, who's only purpose is to switch sides when things are uneven. As much as I agree with you about certain things in the CT, I'd appreciate it if you started being more specific in your condemnations and not paint us all as "gangbanging lamers".
Morph said:
Thats why Oldman is upset with you.
I only remember seeing you in the CT once, many months ago, probably close to 8-10 months ago. It was FinRus just as now. I had just taken off in an La5, and you and I think it was Yucca were VERY high in some LW plane. You to your credit asked me if I was ready, to which I replied "I'm wheels up, thats all I need, come on down". You promptly came down and shot me out of the sky twice, and then left, probably sensing I was quite a bit below your skill level and not much of a challenge.
Whats this got to do with anything? What you did, asking me if I was ready before you spanked me, is not as rare as you might think in the CT and does happen more often than some on the BBS would have have you believe. Oldman and I are somewhat the exception, we stay out of fights if it looks like its a good 1 v 1, we dont gang people, we dont vulch (again, I do in the MA, but thats different) and the two of us are a squad that our only reason for being is to switch sides to even things up, but we are not the only ones, others do it too.
I guess what I am saying is, those of you that want to criticize the CT, do so some of it is very warranted, but BE SPECIFIC and name names, and dont throw all of us into your generalities. [/B]
Gritz...
I've flown under a bunch of handles...Humble is my original handle and the one I brought over from AW in 1999. After my stint as a trainer here like many I went thru alot of "burnout" and came and went. Since you couldnt get your "old" handle back I've flown as snaphook, azhacker and 6-7 other "handles" at various times. When I signed back up in Sept (I think) I grabbed humble back then switched it to AKhumble when I decided to stick around abit and joined a squad....
There's a reason the CT doesnt get much play and you can see it from some of the regulars here...again I recognize my comments were a bit broad based and guys like you and oldman and sehob certainly dont fit in the "lamer" catagory....
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I don't grasp the idea behind doing TOD from a developers point of view.
Clearly, it's closest option, the CT is a dismal failure given it rarely has more people in it than the deuling arena.
Why not focus on the MA with all its issues and faults. Why not improve the experience there since 98% plus of your clients are there.
I'm all for doing something but can HTC bear the weight of yet so much more code (coad) base to maintain? Why not make changes to the MA that improve gameplay in the direction that TOD might lead and bring TOD funtionality into the SEA or CT as time permits instead of bringing AH developement to a grinding halt ala AH2 for another year?
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Total waste of time
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Originally posted by aztec
Originally posted by storch
I never start the verbage but will gladly , joyfully respond to an assault.
Ok I gotta tell it like it is. The 1st time I met you Storch was in the CT. I was flying an LA5...can't remember what you were in. Anyway I got a couple of pings on you and sent you running for your base and the whole time you ran you cried like a little girl and threw many insults at me. Your above statement is some of the biggest BS I've ever read on this board. Loudmouth.
Sounds like the first time I met Stork in the CT. Allow me to call BS on that too, please.
Storch, you are the whiniest cluelest foul loudmouth in the game (k, maybe top 5)
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Originally posted by TrueKill
Humble with all do respect stfu.
ROFL
You just know a reply is going to be good when it starts off like this.
Two birds with one stone.
Bad spelling but a snappy backhand for a quick recovery. :D
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Just back to ToD question for a sec.
A couple of things came to mind last night while I was flying in the MA. I'd hooked up with a couple other 38 drivers and we were heading out towards an enemy base.
There was something really immersive about that even for that short time, with the loose formation we were in, the skins, the eye candy of the game etc. I didn't mind the flight at all even though we didn't see tons of baduns.
And that reminded me of a couple of scenario experiences going back to my AW days, when we escorted 17s deep into Germany on one flight and Ploesti on another. It was a long flight, over 3 hours if I remember right and we saw very few bad guys. The LW controllers apparently were having a bad day.
But the tension waiting to get hit, the notion of one life, watching the fuel in the tanks drop, all those bombers in formation and the 51s flying cover made for a really immersive feeling.
When the first flak bursts went off over the target, I literally jumped in my chair as I wasn't ready for it. I didn't fire my guns on either of those missions, but I loved every second of it.
If ToD can provide moments like that, I'd be more then happy.
But I'm afraid I might be in the minority on that one
Dan/CorkyJr
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i get that feeling all the time in squad ops. in the end thats what its all about. being there doing your best and getting the mission done, not endless furbaling for the sake of it. this makes each victory memorable. solid squad ops with good brevity code is what i enjoy in any air combat game.
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Originally posted by humble
Gritz...
I've flown under a bunch of handles..I've flown as snaphook, azhacker and 6-7 other "handles" at various times.
Ah! I remember azhacker well! :)
I didnt realize that was you. I love the CT, but I agree its on life support right now and its not looking good, and its almost entirely from its player base.
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hehe storch i ran because i had about 10 rounds of ammo left.. i was in a ta152 "thanks for noticing" as you coud prob see i was attempting to land, then again maybe not, but any ways you did eventually shoot me down, WTG on that. but then i did up and shoot you down... easy peasy...please don't keep this childish rant up...anyone in this game(who knows me) will tell you i never run.. there isnt any point. i will crash before i would turn back if i had less than 3 kills..i had 4 kills in that TA thats why i RTB , sad thing is you chased me down from 30+k to get one kill... now that is an EXCELLENT tactic....:rofl
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sorry cliffra jones seems you thread has been hijacked..
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You know what? It is hard to have any sympathy for anyone who bails on an arena, blames it on other players, and yet, does absolutely nothing to help improve the situation.
From my perspective, everything in the CT is peachy. No problems whatsoever. If you are complaining, here in the bulletin board, I can only surmise you need attention of some kind, as there are no issues I am aware of with the CT nor the players using it.
I will continue to go on the perspective the CT is doing ok, and the players in it are handling themselves in a mature and polite manner, until I get some screenshots saying otherwise.
Balls in your court, step up to the bar or quit your bellyaching.
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I'm not in favor of slamming in a TOD rule set as an entire package. If too many wrong assumptions are made by the AH dev team, this could lead to a train wreck that may be difficult to save.
I would be interested in seeing some form of rolling plane set to start with in the MA. Ever since coming back to AH, it seems to me there is a fairly significant capabilities gap between the early war rides to the late war stuff. This gap can be filled when the "hot sticks" take up an inferior plane, but the rank and file can not or will not try to fly the older iron for the sake of variety. I think this is why we see the same 5 plane types being flown by 90% of the pilots every night. A little more variety to plane set that is actually flown would be nice.
Once the pacing of the rolling plane set is nailed down, I would like them to beef up personal stats. The emphasis being that you are flying against your last flight, not that you are trying to beat the entire player base. The stats need to tell the story of personal improvement in order to dangle the carrot in front of the newer pilots to get better.
Pilot logs, awards, ranks are great as long as they clearly show personal improvement as an emphasis and do not solely focus on how you rank with the best of the player base. Healthy competition between similarly skilled pilots is a great thing.
I know a lot of people say they don’t fly for score. It is easy to fly by the numbers to make yourself look better. That is why I think the emphasis should be on personal improvement. If your cooking your own numbers to make yourself look better to yourself… well umm go ahead I guess.
Not so sure about AI. If the AI is implemented in such a way that it forces pilots to make more interesting decisions, or is done so that the pace of missions is more frequent then it may work. If it just done to add more planes in the air, not sure what that adds once the thrill of clubbing “baby seal” AI pilots is gone.
I think TOD will work if it puts more game into the sim. The flying it self should remain realistic. Creating more interesting decisions, tracking self improvement, creating a better atmosphere and immersion are things that TOD could provide for AH.
I hope it succeeds.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
You know what? It is hard to have any sympathy for anyone who bails on an arena, blames it on other players, and yet, does absolutely nothing to help improve the situation.
From my perspective, everything in the CT is peachy. No problems whatsoever. If you are complaining, here in the bulletin board, I can only surmise you need attention of some kind, as there are no issues I am aware of with the CT nor the players using it.
I will continue to go on the perspective the CT is doing ok, and the players in it are handling themselves in a mature and polite manner, until I get some screenshots saying otherwise.
Balls in your court, step up to the bar or quit your bellyaching.
There is barely anyone in the CT Skuzzy. It's not alright. In fact it sees less use than either the training arena or deuling arena. Thats not boding well for TOD..
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
Total waste of time
FU hub:D
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"I don't grasp the idea behind doing TOD from a developers point of view. Clearly, it's closest option, the CT is a dismal failure....Why not focus on the MA"
Why? I'd imagine it's because the number of players who subscribe to play in the AH "MA" are a mere fraction of the potential customers who buy historically oriented box sims and who play online in historical settings (ex/ IL2 and WWIIO).
The CT is not a good example of an historical setting in the least. Why? Because it is just another "MA" but with slightly different rules As such it does not appeal to MA players and yet it lacks a decent historical environment
TOD is, I believe, going to be like an "Aces over The Pacific/Europe - European Air War- IL2: ONLINE" And that will appeals to a LOT of people I'll wager.
It's purpose is not to offer the current MA subscriber base another gameplay option. I'm sure some of those players will like it but from what I gather it's audience will be mainly people who buy box sims such as IL2, EAW and the Aces series. People who want, and will pay, to experience WWII air combat against people and not all AI in an historical setting all while roleplaying as Bong, Bader, Sakai or Galland.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
You know what? It is hard to have any sympathy for anyone who bails on an arena, blames it on other players, and yet, does absolutely nothing to help improve the situation.
From my perspective, everything in the CT is peachy. No problems whatsoever. If you are complaining, here in the bulletin board, I can only surmise you need attention of some kind, as there are no issues I am aware of with the CT nor the players using it.
I will continue to go on the perspective the CT is doing ok, and the players in it are handling themselves in a mature and polite manner, until I get some screenshots saying otherwise.
Balls in your court, step up to the bar or quit your bellyaching.
:rofl
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Rabid, not sure why you want to equate the CT to TOD. From what I have read on the board, they are worlds apart.
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Originally posted by dedalos
:rofl
Great input and constructive criticism, kudos.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Rabid, not sure why you want to equate the CT to TOD. From what I have read on the board, they are worlds apart.
Can you tell me where to find info on ToD skuzzy? I'm interested, but I really haven't seen anything official. Thanks.
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well.. I hope Westy is right and it all works out but I continue to get the impression that HTC is pretty well maxed out just chewing the code (coad) base you folks have now.
The nearest thing you have to it is CT and it lacks any real support from the player base or HTC.
I'm laying my poker chips on another year for TOD while ah2 languishes with minor fixes and maybe a couple new AC or GV's. TOD will just make it out the door with lots o issues and not nearly the interest we all hope for.
Hope I'm totally wrong but history has a habit of repeating itself.
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Originally posted by plank
Great input and constructive criticism, kudos.
Right. Things in the CT are peachy? you don't think thats funny? My post was as constructive as yours or his. Atlist his was funny. Off the high white horse now please, :D
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Originally posted by Oldman731
In that different thread, I asked you for your opinion(s) on the reason for the decline in numbers in the CT since AH2 was introduced. You have yet to respond.
Humble, people are getting up front and personal because there is an implicit, and, on this occasion, an explicit theme in your posts that the CT is populated by losers who somehow can't make it in the MA. You, Morpheus, Selector, Widewing and others are doing the same thing in this thread. How could you really expect that you wouldn't draw a personal counter-reaction?
- oldman
Actually I'm implying that about 18 months ago "squads" appeared in the CT...prior to that there really were no such animals. Those squads began to alter the CT for the worse, 1st by "porking" the maps and rolling things up in the face of zero or almost zero opposition. 2nd by "ganging" the individual fllyers who had typically made up the CT headcount. Each and everytime these issues were brought up those same folks started the "loser' threads taunts...in effect telling those they were ganging...dont blame us because you cant cut it here. You see this same thread continuing here from storch and others...in effect I'm a "loser" and I "suck". Why? for calling a spade a spade?
I could care less about what anyone in the CT thinks of me.....that being said I have always tried to be fair when you gritz or others who I do respect get caught in my overly broad "assualt" on the CT:)....
I simply feel bad that a small number of bad apples ruined the whole thing. The DA and TA get significantly more play than the CT...that sums it up nicely. The community as a whole has issues with the CT or it would have a larger following...
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Hey oldman ,
Nothing but respect for you sir. Always a good and fair fight when you are around. Win or lose, its always a fun fight. CT, MA, . . . all games, need more people like you.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
You know what? It is hard to have any sympathy for anyone who bails on an arena, blames it on other players, and yet, does absolutely nothing to help improve the situation.
From my perspective, everything in the CT is peachy. No problems whatsoever. If you are complaining, here in the bulletin board, I can only surmise you need attention of some kind, as there are no issues I am aware of with the CT nor the players using it.
I will continue to go on the perspective the CT is doing ok, and the players in it are handling themselves in a mature and polite manner, until I get some screenshots saying otherwise.
Balls in your court, step up to the bar or quit your bellyaching.
I couldnt disagree with you anymore....
1st off I have "helped" somewhat. I spent a pretty significant amount of time as a trainer here. I still work with folks if/when they ask. I'm saying that to project im anything special...I'm just another one of hundreds of relatively competent vets. I flew the CT for years and my comments are in the hopes of bringing it back. When I started flying the CT the normal peak load was 150-250 players max...now we get 450+ every night. Back then you might have 35-40 in the CT on a good night. that was 15% or more of the logged player base...sometimes as much as 25%+.
Now with 450 or even 500 folks on you rarely see 15 folks in the CT...that between 3% to 5% of the logged player base. Further the quality of play in the MA has decreased dramatically with regard to the "old school" mentality...yet the hundreds of "old school" types wont set foot in the CT....why. You'll see us tooling around amonst the hordes in A5's Ki-61's 109 G-2's P47-11's and P40's instead of bothering with the CT.
If you want to believe its fine all I can say is coming from someone whos been here (almost all the time:)) since beta...its a shadow of what it was....and could be.
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humble, my reference was to people saying there is an element in the CT running or ruining other players fun. I have not seen a single complaint from anyone about such things.
So, from my perspective, everything is fine. If that is not then case, then why hasn't anyone made any effort to let us know?
My primary point being, complaining on the bulletin board is not going to fix anything. It never has, and it never will, as it pertains to player interaction.
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My issues/comments have been specific to "gameplay" not conduct. If you have an arena with limited numbers....usually less than 10 a side and 8 of the ten guys on "side A" are grouped togeather "steamrolling" bases certain issues evolve.
I honestly cant say that element is "running" or even "ruining" the CT unless your looking at #'s and quality of game play. The normal reaction of a "single" is to up a plane and head to the nearest DAR bar. Normally he knows he's going to be outnumbered...in fact expects it. Now "before" even if you had an imbalance you had some kind of a code of conduct. I can remember numerous times watching a 1 on 2...often with 2 or 3 other guys till it finished...meaning both of "our" guys were down before engaging...or augering to switch...to find 3 other guys augered and someone had to auger back. Now you see guys piling on making it 7,8 or more on 1. Thats not just from me...its a common statement in the CT threads....
Obviously there are alot of guys who are passionate about the CT (well given the total #'s there)...and have some aversion to the MA. But there are alot more (I bet a couple hundred) who would fly the CT but anytime they pop in and see the roster they shrug and leave thinking its same old same old....I've popped in 5 or 6 times over the last 2 months (only when 16 or more showing)...and its the same crew as always...so I dont bother.
And as gritz recalls I did fly there alot...way before alot of these guys ever heard of the CT (not all obviously).
Whats funny is I'm the "protypical" CT flier...I pulled up my numbers and using "kills in"...
#1 Ki-61
#2 P-47 (25 & 11)
#3 P-51
#4 P-38J
3 of the 4 are mid war planes....now I do fly the lala and tempest as well (usually when we getting really ganged)...
I fly alone and at 10k or so and often end up in a 1 on 4 or more.
So if the enviornment gets to me I honestly think its worse for 90% of the player base for a couple of reasons...
1st I'm reasonably competent...I usually can put up a pretty good fight even outnumbered.
2 I'm "old school" so score in the AH sense doesnt matter to me at all. I fly all over in my Ki, Jug, -1 hog looking for a 1 on 1...any plane any alt...just lets go. I'm happy either way if its good fight...in fact last two I posted on BBS I lost....one to relic other to doom. both were great great fights. So I know the outcome never bothers me....
I actually find the MA to be more "old school" then the CT as of now...and most of the old school guys fly there...not the CT.
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Originally posted by Westy
The CT is not a good example of an historical setting in the least. Why? Because it is just another "MA" but with slightly different rules As such it does not appeal to MA players and yet it lacks a decent historical environment
TOD is, I believe, going to be like an "Aces over The Pacific/Europe - European Air War- IL2: ONLINE" And that will appeals to a LOT of people I'll wager.
It's purpose is not to offer the current MA subscriber base another gameplay option. I'm sure some of those players will like it but from what I gather it's audience will be mainly people who buy box sims such as IL2, EAW and the Aces series. People who want, and will pay, to experience WWII air combat against people and not all AI in an historical setting all while roleplaying as Bong, Bader, Sakai or Galland.
From what I understand about it, I think that is the best description so far.
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I didnt wish to seem like a 'piler-on-er', but having SQUADS in an arena where there are often 15-20 guys (or gals) total, ensures there wont be even sides, as squad loyalty usually precludes switching to even up sides, as USED to be the case--That leaves ya with 10-12 guys beating up the 2 or 3 nmy's like narcs at a Hell's Angels meeting, making for a generally unfavorable experience for the potential new blood;
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Originally posted by bj229r
I didnt wish to seem like a 'piler-on-er', but having SQUADS in an arena where there are often 15-20 guys (or gals) total, ensures there wont be even sides, as squad loyalty usually precludes switching to even up sides, as USED to be the case--That leaves ya with 10-12 guys beating up the 2 or 3 nmy's like narcs at a Hell's Angels meeting, making for a generally unfavorable experience for the potential new blood;
And to make sure no one ever comes back, they put flacks on the runways of the enemy fields and wait for hours until some guy logs into the CT just so they can get that one vulch kill per hour.
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cant we all just get along? :)
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Skuzzy,
When I first tried the CT, numbers were still low, but the quality of the players was generally good (in terms of civility). Haven't been in the CT for awhile, but last few times there did seem to be less civil behavior, and more consistent gang-banging.
Although this behavior wasn't to my taste, it wasn't totally outrageous, so I didn't bother with screen shots.
The suggestion that this change for the worse is a "squad" thing is interesting and plausible. This could explain the gang-banging, and the attitude that anyone outside the group (squad) is fair game for uncivil treatment.
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I'm hoping that TOD will be like having one of the big Scenario's running all the time that you can hop into when you like.
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ok...well..
If you dotn have an idea what TOD will be,...Do a search..HTC has told us the general idea..adn I love it
Huge msiions..battling each other
Air Starts..If we dotn have them..TOD will die...You know why?
I take it you havent flown in the old TODs..now called Squad OIps or whatever....
Ok taking off in Ju88s and grabbing to 2ok..just to get jumped and mauled and killed by 26k spitfires or soemother single engine killer..IS HORRIBLE>.....I spent an hour in Squad ops grabn..just to get mauled.....You knwo what?..I hate that and wont WASTE MY TIEM AGAIN
Tell me why air starts or so bad jackal?.....Ill giev you one example..
LArge Buff raid......Airstart b-24s over Englad at 20K.......Germans get there airstart at same alt... over there coutry..Now we can be in a battle with in 20 mins...
who wants to grab in buffs for 30 min?....NO ONE
AI.....Thsi is going to be a must
1 msiion....Allies flying escorts for AI buff otw to bom Dresden...Axis can fly ther 110s...109's 163s..or whatevere..
Having Bomber drones is complty exceptable....Killing AI's..protecting AI's whiel real life pilots in ftrs try to kill you..or protect the buffs...
Sounds excellnt
as the Hijack for CT..I have been there maybe 6 times in the last year plus....
2 observations....
1) way low numbers ..sucks lookn for fights
2) I find an nme..im in a zero..hes in p38....heactaully rusn all the way home...weee..ya ..thats no fun..I leave CT and go to MA..
but hey..I dont liek flying more then 5 miels for a fite
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TDeacon has hit it on the head. Their actions aren't totally outrageous in there but it's not worth dealing with them. I was in the arena for no more than 3 minutes or so when the first MA player bashing comments were coming out of the "crew".
The CT also ends up being a huge lopsided fight. It's been like that every night I have gone over there. It's almost always a 2 to 1 ratio. Even with those odds it always seems to end up having atleast 2 more folks jumping into an already lopsided engagement. The "crew" will hover over a base and wait for someone climbing out. Then they will all jump on the single con giving them absolutely no chance of survival.
Frankly your guaranteed to hear some kind of MA player bashing if you come in to play in the CT for a little while. They almost always scream about etiquette and that the MA players should take their gamey crap back to the MA. When at the same time they are bouncing a single con with 2 or more players everytime. They are failing to even try to even up the sides some. Especially when the ratio turns to 3 on 1 or more. What's even better is the same folks screaming go back to the MA will pull the same "gamey" crap they are whining about in the first place.
In the end it's easier to leave the "crew" and the CT so they can play alone in "their" little world. It's rather sad when the DA and TA get more players than the CT gets on a regular basis.
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Originally posted by GreenCloud
Tell me why air starts or so bad jackal?.....Ill giev you one example..
LArge Buff raid......Airstart b-24s over Englad at 20K.......Germans get there airstart at same alt... over there coutry..Now we can be in a battle with in 20 mins...
who wants to grab in buffs for 30 min?
Well, if that is what the people want that are interested in TOD, then if I was HT I`d put it that way.
Like I said before, I`m am less than interested in TOD to begin with because I`m just not much of a box gamer. Never have been.
What I was sayiing, is if , and that`s a big IF, some of the people that I value their opinion thought it was the total cat`s meow, then I might be lured in for a try.
If it was air start , that would be the cincher. Way I look at it , you go to all this trouble and time to make it as realistic as possible so you would get as close as possible to total immersion, then add air starts POOF the whole deal would be shot to hell. That`s just the way I look at it. If I were going to get involved in something like this for the realism , then 30 minutes climbing would only add to realism.
To each his own. I`m not interested anyway .
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wow..too each his own is sure right
you want to do a walk around also?..test fuel?..check oil..
I want to Fight
I like realism..but we have to balance
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Testing the fuel and checking the oil might be a good way to enjoy that first cup of coffee. rofl
I have about a half case of Valvoline aircraft oil. Would be a pain trying to figure out how to convert it to virtual though.
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Originally posted by killnu
last time i was in there, i called more names in the 1/2 i was there than a whole night in the MA. they told me to go back to MA, so i did. i dont understand why the CT guys post how great it is, or wish they had more participation, yet when new guys(me) come in, they insult them and tell them to go back to MA. one heck of a recruiting style there.
CT needs fixing. But it won't happen until the owners step in. Fact is, I suspect it's never been very high on the priority list so don't expect too much for now. The MA still is a lot of fun.:)
Will have to wait and see how TOD turns out. Might be great!
Ren
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The Damned