Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: JB73 on March 22, 2005, 02:35:06 PM
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currently:
athlon xp1800
768mb
GF Ti4800
SB live 5.1
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looking at:
AMD Athlon 64 2800+ (socket 754 newcastle core) (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-103-491&depa=0)
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AMD Athlon 64 3000+ (socket 754 newcastle core) (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-103-425&depa=0)
to go with MB:
MSI "K8N Neo-FSR" NVIDIA nForce3 (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-130-470&depa=0)
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ASUS "K8N" NVIDIA nForce3 (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-131-512&depa=0)
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(other processor choice):
AMD Athlon 64 3000+ (socket 939 winchester core) (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-103-499&depa=0)
with MB:
MSI "K8N Neo2 Platinum" NVIDIA nForce3 ULTRA (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-130-468&depa=0)
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video cards:
eVGA nVIDIA GeForce 6800GT (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-130-203&depa=0)
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MSI nVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-127-162&depa=0)
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memory im stuck on.
what is the difference between corsaire and corsaire XMX? (almost same price for stick 512 MB PC3200)
what is the difference between crucial VS crucial ballstix (ballstix is almost double the price for a 512 PC3200)
i plan on buying 2 512 MB sticks for the system.
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everything else would stay from old PC (CDROM / CDRW / both HD's / sound card / network card)
money IS an issue, im only getting this stuff with a performance bonus from work, and the above will take almost all that money (estimated $750-$900 when all said and done) my current system has not had a major upgrade in about 3 years, and i hope for the same with this system.
any radical changes suggested to this "optimal" system? or thoughts on ways to better spend the money and get the same performance
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last is this not an amazing deal on a moniter?
iiyama 19" CRT Monitor (http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=24-172-050&depa=0)
1280x1024 @ 85hz
$139?
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Whatever else you do, get the socket 939 motherboard. In the next year, you'll see processor upgrades available for socket 939 that will not be available for 754, meaning you can make low-cost upgrades to a socket 939 mobo for a lot longer than you can with 754.
The winchester core runs cooler, so get that too. You'd only save a few bucks going socket 754 and then not only would it be slower, it is also a dead end for upgrades. In a year or two, dual core AMD 64 cpus for socket 939 should be affordable and actually useful, as games and the OS will start to take advantage of mainstream dual cpu systems.
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TY eagl...
the MB price almost doubles for that MB, and starts to stretch the budget but will do.
the question then goes to memory. i can pay from $120 - $250 for basically the same PC3200 2x512 sticks.
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Be wary of this "get an 939 mobo, it'll be upgradeable". I have a socket A Mobo (MS I K7t 266) I bought as a kickass machine from OCUK in Nov 2001 with an XP1800.
Only problem was, it wouldn't support Thoroughbred processors, so my upgrade path halted at...XP2000!!!
I bet when the new "939" processors come out, there will be die shrink and a voltage change and your kickass 939 mobo won't support them:rolleyes:
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i was thinking about that....
the more i think, upgrading a processor i would usually buy a MB with it.
if that 3000+ newcastle will run most stuff (AH and maybe another game or 2) for 3-4 years i'll be happy.
heck i can run doom3 on my current system with AA @ 2x and be totally playable.
i think im going to stick with the "cheaper" newcastle
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shoot another question....
my current PC's power supply took a dump friday.
i just bough a 450 watt
will that be big enough to power the 3000 and the 6800?
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450 watts will be plenty unless you put a half dozen hard drives in there too.
I still think you should get a socket 939 mobo. It has dual channel memory which the 754 mobos don't, so you gain there too. Go with an NForce4 PCI-e board and it ought to be about as upgradable as they come, and your pci-e vid card you get to go with it will also move to your next mobo if necessary. Get an agp card and socket 754 mobo and you're tossing it ALL out with your next upgrade, and you are guaranteed to be unable to upgrade it with anything even remotely resembling new stuff.
You should be able to find combo deals (tiger direct?) on decent socket 939 mobos and cpus that are within $30ish of an equivalent low-end socket 754 setup. If you shop around, you really shouldn't be seeing that much of a price difference, $50 at most TOTAL.
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JB73 I' just built an athlon64 3400 Newcastle. It will last more then a few years.
AMD is coming out with a new dual core cpu so the 939 socket mobos will be in the same boat as the 754 socket. For the money and performance....if dollars an issue the 754 will do very very well.
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Hajo,
AMD is saying that the dual core cpus should work in most socket 939 mobos with a simple bios upgrade. That really sets them apart from the socket 754 setups.
Whether you trust AMD or not is a different issue, but the fact is that the socket 754 setups are slower than socket 939, have zero future upgradability, and the cost difference is not very large anymore if you spend any time shopping around. If $50 in overall system price is that big of a deal and you are dead set on buying something with less performance and absolutely no future upgradability, why not just buy a dell and get a funky purple case along with it?
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Originally posted by eagl
If $50 in overall system price is that big of a deal and you are dead set on buying something with less performance and absolutely no future upgradability, why not just buy a dell and get a funky purple case along with it?
it would be a $100 difference with the processor MB switch, and when $800 is your max budget $100 makes a difference.
also, what is the difference in what kind of memory the 2 MB's support? will the memory for the 939 be more? what about the heatsync? my current $60 heatsync works on a socket 754 system, and at the store just for kicks i looked for a 939 heatsync. the local compusa didn't even have one.
i appreciate what you are saying, but the added overall expenses i don't think justifing it. like i mentioned, if i am going to upgrade the peocessor, might as well get an MB to go with it.
buy a dell??? and play what with an $800 dell? solataire? LMAO
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http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1229522&CatId=0
$50 difference for mobo/cpu from your socket 754 selection. The only thing you lose is the nvidia chipset, but there are other combo deals for around this price that do have the nvidia chipset, both nforce4 and nforce3 so you'd have the choice between agp or pci-e.
Memory will not be any more for either motherboard. You can get whatever PC3200 (DDR400) memory you can afford. With a socket 754 mobo getting 2 sticks won't help, but with socket 939 you'd get the benefit of dual channel memory if you have 2 sticks. I like crucial brand memory because they are high quality and have a great RMA/support system (they will cross-ship you a new stick before you send back your old stuff), but you'll probably pay an extra $10 or so per stick over the cheapest other stuff.
It's still your call though.
As for the heatsink/fan, I was actually suprised at the quality of the heatsink and fan that came with my retail athlon 64, so you might want to spend the extra $20 and just use the retail heatsink/fan. The fan was pretty quiet and the heatsink is a nice sturdy hunk of aluminum. Otherwise I think that there isn't any difference between socket 754 and socket 939 heatsinks. I went with a thermalright XP-90 because it and the XP-120 are the best air-cooling solutions you can get, but they're also very expensive. $59ish for the XP-90 plus another $10ish for a speed adjustable ball bearing 92mm fan.
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cc on the price diff there...
couple of questions:
is tiger direct as reliable as newegg?
via.. can they be trusted for anything? i have had nothing but bad bad bad experiances with them, my asus board, i could not get the drivers installed for the IDE bus master, 3 reformats, i gave up and used the generic driver shipped with win XP. same with the AGP miniport drivers, actually BSOD'd me and had to reformat.
i have 2 friends with nforce chipsets, and they rock.
memory:
crucial, did you see my question about their memory above:
what is the difference between crucial VS crucial ballstix (ballstix is almost double the price for a 512 PC3200)
the "regular" crucial is cheaper than both the corsaire sticks.
as far as heatsnyc, i have had bad luck there too.... i smoke, and have melted 2 CPU's / MB's from overheating them causethe fans got gummed up. now i use an all copper one from thermaltake i can'f find any more, but it is solid copper with an 80mm fan. it cost $59 new back 2 years ago.
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My system:
MSI K8N Neo Platinum 2, socket 939
3500+ AMD 64
PQI DUAL 1GB(2X512) DDR PC3200
Koolance Exos Watercooling system (CPU only)
Evga 6800 GT
PS: currently OCZ 520
I paid some extra for the memory as it has lower latency. Don't think it has made any practical difference though. Any decent PC3200 should be fine.
I would advise socket 939 over 754 for several reasons.
a) 754 is dead
b) 939 has dual channel memory. = Fast
c) dual core is coming out for 939, bios update should support it on M/B.
RE: how much power supply you need, a good 400+ will be fine. I say a "good" 400+, because not all 400W power supplies are created equal. The $35 450W special probably will not deliver 450W when and how you need it. With a high-wattage CPU and GPU, you will need a lot of steady power on the 12v rail to support that.
That being said, my Enermax 435W ran this system, including the liquid cooliing setup, just fine. I ended up replacing it with the 520 while diagnosing a reboot issue - I thought maybe I was drawing too much power for the 435. It turns out that with the Dual Channel memory, you need to be careful that you filll the banks in the proper order. I had filled one channel instead of putting one stick into each channel, and that was the source of my reboot problems. The manual for K8N is not as clear as one could hope for on this.
Moebious
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I'd listen to the men if I were you JB73. They know what they are talkin about.
I am buidling a 754 system right now. But I'd have gone 939 also if the price werent so cheap on the 754 (30 bucks).
If you can afford to stretch and get the 939, do it. Yeah, its still a gamble. They could be obsolete by Christmas. But waking up is a gamble.
The only reason I went with the 30 dollar 754 even is that I'm seeing the processor prices drop now that everyone is going full steam into the 939s. I found a Athlon 64 2800 CPU for under $100 last night. That, and I already have a case, power supply, memory, everything I need except the processor. So for less than 150 bucks I'll have this thing running. And considering the wife is giving me NO budget for this, cheap is good lol.
As for your other questions..........
I have used both Tiger Direct and Newegg several times. I dont like Tiger as much as I used to. Reason why is, almost every sale they run now is on mail-in rebates, not price drops. Getting the rebates is a hassle, and their return policy stinks. At least it did for me. Newegg, OTOH, does more price drop specials than rebates, has an excellent RMA process, gives great customer service, and are usually cheaper to boot.
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Newegg has done very well for me. RMA policies are generous, and fast and convenient to boot. Prices are good. All of my recent computer purchases have been through Newegg. I used to go local, but the local shops just don't have the components I want anymore.
Forgot to add one thing about 754 - if you can get a screaming deal and you get the performance level you want for this computer hardware iteration, no reason not to go for it.
Also one more thing about the socket 939 - if you go that route try to get one of the new-process 90nm AMD cpu's. A 3000+ 90nm cpu will more than likely overclock to 3500+ or higher. That's the only reason I overclock any more, it's not for raw performance, it's to get an equivalent level of stable performance at usually several hundred dollars less.
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I think every 939 CPU newegg sells is 90nm. Whereas all the 754 CPUs are .13micron.
Oh, and the VIA chipsets. I've only owned 1, and it was fried out of the box. Never used it. Every other MOBO I've owned (newer than socket 370 anyway) has been nForce or SiS. Both have been good to me.
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is tiger direct as reliable as newegg?
Hell no. They are iffy at best. I'm close to them and have to use them on occasion at work (I buy stuff for a living) ......but ANYTHING can and probably will go wrong from shipments that don't ship on up the line to RMA troubles. I've had to call 3-4 times on the same problem as their customer service is pretty unreliable. And I have a dedicated Business Rep. They do seem to put a little more effort into large orders (by that I mean like over 10K) though.
Woof
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I haven't used tigerdirect so I don't have any stories about them, good or bad. I have had great luck with newegg and have been willing to keep using them even though they're not the cheapest out there.
As for the difference between the types of crucial memory, the regular crucial PC3200 memory is rated to run at "stock" DDR400 speeds with memory latency timings at around 2.5 3 3 8 or so. Ballistix PC3200 sticks are rated at 2 2 2 6 or 2 2 2 8 at ddr400, and can be overclocked pretty high with no problems. The regular crucial stuff may be able to be overclocked with relaxed memory timings, but they're not really intended to be overclocking friendly. If you don't plan on overclocking your system, then you're just fine with the regular crucial pc3200 because at stock settings, the timings aren't going to make that much of a difference. You only get the big gains when you combine fast timings with a hefty FSB overclock, and that means you gotta spend some serious $$$ on really good parts.